Author Topic: New multimeters from Brymen  (Read 5263 times)

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Offline HydrawerkTopic starter

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New multimeters from Brymen
« on: December 25, 2022, 01:32:14 pm »
Some new multimeters from Brymen were released recently...
http://www.brymen.com/Products2-2.html
BM2800 CSE SERIES
http://www.brymen.com/PD02BM2800CSE_2807CSE.html
BM830 is also quite new probably.
http://www.brymen.com/PD02BM830_839.html
Unfortunately, no low impedance (Auto check, LoZ) mode here.
So I am still happy with my BM829s bought in 2016. http://www.brymen.com/PD02BM820s_829s.html
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 
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Offline HydrawerkTopic starter

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2022, 01:35:46 pm »
 :)
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2022, 06:36:47 pm »
The 2800 series looks interesting. Good specs, high safety, a backlight that stays on for 32 minutes...

Details: http://www.brymen.com/images/ProductsList/BM2800CSE_List/BM2800CSE_Catalog.pdf

Couldn't find a price yet though.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2022, 08:25:41 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2023, 06:54:48 pm »
The 2805CSE finally arrived on the Brymen web site: https://brymen.eu/shop/bm2805-cse/

I figured out the numbering system:

"2805" is "second-generation 805" so this model is intended to replace the existing 805.

"CSE" is "CAT and Shielding Enhanced" - this meter has extra internal shielding.

Price is just over 100 Euros which seems about right. Looks like a good solid meter. Much better than eg. a Fluke 17B.

It claims fast autoranging with "speeded" Ohms and capacitance measurement. It has separate range selection for just about everything and they seem to have done away with the memory of the last-used ranges.

If you paint it yellow it's probably as good as an 87V for electricians.

(I wonder if there's an aftermarket for selling yellow boots that fit Brymen meters?)
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2023, 09:00:01 pm »
Quote
If you paint it yellow it's probably as good as an 87V for electricians.

Because the painting improves bandwidth, resolution and accuracy.
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2023, 09:16:28 pm »
It's missing LowZ on V so kinda crappy for electrician's use.  Would not buy a multimeter without LowZ V in a plant or industrial environment, been there done that.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2023, 09:22:51 pm »
It's missing LowZ

Just like the 87V...  :popcorn:
 

Online Martin72

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2023, 09:31:15 pm »
Quote
It's missing LowZ on V so kinda crappy for electrician's use.

I would say not suitable.. ;)
Multimeters are (in Germany(DGUV) )not approved for determining the absence of voltage, but mainly because of the risk of mixing up the sockets or setting a wrong range.
In addition, there is the high input resistance, which can indicate voltages that are actually not present.

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2023, 09:44:59 pm »
I would say not suitable.. ;)
Multimeters are (in Germany(DGUV) )not approved for determining the absence of voltage, but mainly because of the risk of mixing up the sockets or setting a wrong range.
In addition, there is the high input resistance, which can indicate voltages that are actually not present.

The only Fluke multimeter I would consider "suitable for electrician" is the 113.

https://www.fluke.com/en/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-113

It has no sockets or ranges to mix up and it only does LoZ.


Of course Fluke makes proper electrical testers, too:

https://www.fluke.com/en/product/electrical-testing/basic-testers/fluke-t90-t110-t130-t150#
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2023, 10:02:05 pm »
What's behind the obsession to read VFD frequency? It's like a marketing gimmick for electricians, and now everybody is putting in the feature.
It's a dangerous measurement with HF HV square waves- just to "check" motor speed? The VFD display tells me that and more- just read RPM there.
Why would it ever not match the VFD's intent? A shorted IGBT or SCR you're see some blown fuses, loss of a phase, so I think VFD Hz is useless.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2023, 10:25:04 pm »
Quote
It's a dangerous measurement with HF HV square waves- just to "check" motor speed?

This was my first thought too because we produce VFDs with sinusoidal output waveforms.
But it seems that´s not the "standard":

https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/learn/blog/motors-drives-pumps-compressors/multimeter-measurements-on-adjustable-speed-drives-utilizing-the-new-fluke-87v-dmm

Offline mwb1100

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2023, 03:01:19 am »
BM2807 seems to be virtually same specs as BM235 with BM2807 about 30 EUR more.

BM2807 has the additional shielding, higher CAT rating, logic frequency and "speeded" ohms and capacitance.  Don't know how much faster the BM2807 is in those measurements, but I expect it's pretty noticeable if they're touting it.

Since I don't need the extra shielding, I'd probably still go for the BM235 that I already have and like (plus I think the BM235 looks better - not much of a factor, but not nothing).
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2023, 04:10:58 am »
Does it have any sealing around the rotary switch and input jacks? To keep out dirt and moisture, O-ring kind of thing.
I don't mean to laugh but can someone straighten the banana jacks please  :-DD   pic from Brymen website.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2023, 09:38:52 am »
Does it have any sealing around the rotary switch and input jacks? To keep out dirt and moisture, O-ring kind of thing.

It's one of their "industrial" meters so, very probably.

Disclaimer: I don't have this exact model but I know my old BM857 has o-rings on the input jacks, the screws, between the two halves of the case, etc. There's no reason this will be any different.

https://youtu.be/tXu0lsOjvDs?t=708
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2023, 10:03:20 am »
Some new multimeters from Brymen were released recently...
BM2800 CSE SERIES
http://www.brymen.com/PD02BM2800CSE_2807CSE.html

Interesting:
"double sided EMI shielded"
and
"speeded uF and Mohms ranges"

I wonder they are new features not found on any existing models?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2023, 10:08:19 am »
What's behind the obsession to read VFD frequency? It's like a marketing gimmick for electricians, and now everybody is putting in the feature.
It's a dangerous measurement with HF HV square waves- just to "check" motor speed? The VFD display tells me that and more- just read RPM there.
Why would it ever not match the VFD's intent? A shorted IGBT or SCR you're see some blown fuses, loss of a phase, so I think VFD Hz is useless.

Kane sent me an EEVblog branded 555 meter, a variation on the 121GW, and they wanted to know if I was keen to sell it.
But I didn't understand why they added motor measurement on such an instrument, didn't make much sense  :-//

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2023, 10:43:23 am »
Interesting:
"double sided EMI shielded"
and
"speeded uF and Mohms ranges"

I wonder they are new features not found on any existing models?

The range selector has separate positions for nF and uF so they're probably using a different circuit for faster (and more robust?) uF measurements,

eg. For checking motor capacitors?


 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2023, 10:52:01 am »
It's missing LowZ on V so kinda crappy for electrician's use.  Would not buy a multimeter without LowZ V in a plant or industrial environment, been there done that.

FWIW: The 2807 model has "Single-pole Contact EF-Detection for Precise Indications of Live Conductors"



Also non-contact EF detection with selectable sensitivity:

« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 11:09:25 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2023, 11:03:57 am »
This is slightly worrying:


Looks like battery life will only be about 150 hours.

Surely they could have made it work with 3xAAA. LDOs only cost a few cents.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 11:05:49 am by Fungus »
 

Online Martin72

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2023, 12:11:44 pm »
Low Bat below 2.5V, Accus got 1.2V each..

Online RAPo

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2023, 12:15:48 pm »
I don't see any advantage to the Brymens I already have (BM257s/BM789/BM869s).
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2023, 07:39:27 pm »
I don't see any advantage to the Brymens I already have (BM257s/BM789/BM869s).

The "industrial" meters are smaller and have a very satisfying feel. You should try one.

They're also a lot tougher and have recessed screens so you can throw them in toolboxes. Less feature overload on the dial, too.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 07:41:11 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2023, 08:10:42 pm »
Kane sent me an EEVblog branded 555 meter, a variation on the 121GW, and they wanted to know if I was keen to sell it.
But I didn't understand why they added motor measurement on such an instrument, didn't make much sense  :-//

Multimeter OEM's and product line managers have little to no experience in the environments they are targeting. So there are features of no real use that Company A came up with and everybody just copies it, adds it in I think.
I've worked with VFD's to 100HP on 480VAC so DC bus is around 850VDC. Connecting a multimeter to that (motor output) being commutated at 6-12kHz PWM carrier freq. is a mind blowing amount of common-mode noise that will cause either erroneous readings, crashing etc. which requires added EMI shielding and added cost and bulk.
It's an 850Vpp square-wave and a multimeter will tell you nothing of value doing that risky measurement. It can't help you troubleshoot a VFD or motor.

In plant environments there is always moisture, dirt, CNC coolant glycol, coal dust etc. so you need two things - Low Z for voltage measurements and Ohms test current higher than a flea fart. Brymen's designs have dropped down to around 0.3mA which is no good in these environments. It should be at least the usual 1mA or higher i.e. testing a 1,200V 150A IGBT on Ohms to see if it is damaged, you can get misleading readings.

It's missing LowZ on V so kinda crappy for electrician's use.  Would not buy a multimeter without LowZ V in a plant or industrial environment, been there done that.

FWIW: The 2807 model has "Single-pole Contact EF-Detection for Precise Indications of Live Conductors"

This is non-contacting electric-field detection, which is different from Low Z voltage measurements.
 
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Offline mwb1100

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2023, 10:29:00 pm »
This is slightly worrying:


Looks like battery life will only be about 150 hours.

Surely they could have made it work with 3xAAA. LDOs only cost a few cents.

This is exactly the same as the BM235.  Maybe Brymen hasn't been getting much negative feedback on the BM235's battery life?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: New multimeters from Brymen
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2023, 01:04:04 am »
I don't mean to laugh but can someone straighten the banana jacks please  :-DD   pic from Brymen website.
Yeah ... it is a bit triggering........

Is this better?

 
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