NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[EEVblog]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

You'd think so. Would be insane not to.

[Fungus]

The power supply is probably external.

It would be idiotic to make it so thin that it requires an external power supply. This isn't a TV set that needs to appeal to aesthetically minded housewives, it's a tool for professional engineers.

 

Digital input channels (optional, available in future) < WTF is this future bit ?

Maybe they didn't finish the firmware yet.

[coppice]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

Its totally unacceptable that basic software fixes, like security fixes, are not provided free for the life of a product like this. Charging for functional improvements is up for debate, but companies who won't provide free fixes for basic flaws in the original shipping product that will affect its long term usability should be shunned.

[Fungus]

You generally wouldn't hand hold it, you'd take it with you somewhere and place it down. Being able to move your scope anywhere without dicking around with power, or simply disconnecting from the mains to prevent common mode noise pickup can be a big deal.

Yep. One of the reasons I love my Micsig is that I can just pick it up and use it on battery power on the other side of the room. It goes for four or five hours, usually long enough to get the job done.

I like the look of this new Tek. It's quite a radical move for them. 

(are there some new managers at tek?)

[coppice]

You generally wouldn't hand hold it, you'd take it with you somewhere and place it down. Being able to move your scope anywhere without dicking around with power, or simply disconnecting from the mains to prevent common mode noise pickup can be a big deal.

More specifically, when you are out working on large systems, the ability to pop a compact instrument into some nook or cranny that's within a test lead's length of the point of interest is a huge boon.

[rsjsouza]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

Its totally unacceptable that basic software fixes, like security fixes, are not provided free for the life of a product like this. Charging for functional improvements is up for debate, but companies who won't provide free fixes for basic flaws in the original shipping product that will affect its long term usability should be shunned.

Sweet. OaaS model (Oscilloscope as a Service). Pay up or keep your gear with known bugs or unsafe to connect to the network (to download datasheets, of course).

So the screen is a membrane screen, not a touch screen?

Screen is capacitive touch. Buttons are membrane.

The membrane buttons are not really selling for me. Either the touch screen UI is really well implemented to make the buttons almost useless or the buttons must have a very soft action. Most of the membrane gear (Wavetek, for example) is a PITA to use over prolonged periods of time.

[nctnico]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

You'd think so. Would be insane not to.

I find it weird that this oscilloscope has a 1 year warranty where other Tektronix equipment typically has 3 years of warranty. IMHO it is better to wait for the official announcement and see what turns up on Tektronix' website before jumping to conclusions.

[rsjsouza]

You generally wouldn't hand hold it, you'd take it with you somewhere and place it down. Being able to move your scope anywhere without dicking around with power, or simply disconnecting from the mains to prevent common mode noise pickup can be a big deal.

More specifically, when you are out working on large systems, the ability to pop a compact instrument into some nook or cranny that's within a test lead's length of the point of interest is a huge boon.

This is one of the great aspects of Tek's TDS3000 series: super small and compact that you can carry almost everywhere (something that has become a feature of the more modern Rig/Sig/Inst scopes)

[Fungus]

Battery pack is external (and huge!) 



Let's hope it's compatible with the pretty rubber bumpers.



Because if not, then... 

[tautech]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

You'd think so. Would be insane not to.

I find it weird that this oscilloscope has a 1 year warranty where other Tektronix equipment typically has 3 years of warranty. IMHO it is better to wait for the official announcement and see what turns up on Tektronix' website before jumping to conclusions.

Yet loud and clear in the datasheet is:
 One-year warranty covering all parts and labor cost on the instrument. One-year warranty covering all parts and labor cost on included probes
One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates

And:
Service options Description
R3 Standard warranty extended to 3 years. Covers parts, labor cost, and 2-day shipping within country.
Guarantees faster repair time than without coverage. All repairs include calibration and updates. Hassle
free - a single call starts the process
R5 Standard warranty extended to 5 years. Covers parts, labor cost, and 2-day shipping within country.
Guarantees faster repair time than without coverage. All repairs include calibration and updates. Hassle
free - a single call starts the process
T3 Three year total protection plan, includes repair or replacement coverage from wear and tear, accidental
damage, ESD or EOS plus preventative maintenance. Including a 5 day turnaround time and priority access to
customer support
T5 Five year total protection plan, includes repair or replacement coverage from wear and tear, accidental
damage, ESD or EOS plus preventative maintenance. Including a 5 day turnaround time and priority access to
customer support
C3 Calibration service 3 years. Includes traceable calibration or functional verification where applicable, for
recommended calibrations. Coverage includes the initial calibration plus 2 years calibration coverage.
C5 Calibration service 5 years. Includes traceable calibration or functional verification where applicable, for
recommended calibrations. Coverage includes the initial calibration plus 4 years calibration coverage.
D1 Calibration data report
D3 Calibration data report 3 years (with option C3)
D5 Calibration data report 5 years (with option C5)


What's clearer than that...each one is an additional $ cost.

[Fungus]

I find it weird that this oscilloscope has a 1 year warranty where other Tektronix equipment typically has 3 years of warranty.

Yet loud and clear in the datasheet is:

R3 Standard warranty extended to 3 years. Covers parts, labor cost, and 2-day shipping within country.
Guarantees faster repair time than without coverage. All repairs include calibration and updates. Hassle
free - a single call starts the process
R5 Standard warranty extended to 5 years. Covers parts, labor cost, and 2-day shipping within country.
Guarantees faster repair time than without coverage. All repairs include calibration and updates. Hassle
free - a single call starts the process
...

What's clearer than that...each one is an additional $ cost.

Just something else for reps to sweeten big sales with

(but will be used to milk a lot of extra money from clients in the long term)

[Someone]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

Yes, 1st year "free", after that its worse than the penny pinching keysight "support" model.

[Someone]

Oh, how out of date can they get:

Digital pattern generator (optional)
Serial protocol triggering and analysis (optional)
Digital voltmeter and frequency counter (optional)
Digital channels (optional)
--
Arbitrary function generator (optional)
Battery pack (optional)

Fair enough on those last two, but not really trying to compete with the opposition.

Their entire scope business is built around this model. Absolutely no surprises there at all. All of their major competitors like Keysight, R&S, and Lecroy do the same thing.
It's smart not to get into a race to the bottom when you are a top shelf player. You can always have specials bundling options.

Well, in last 3000G series Keysight gives away basic protocols trigger decode...Also in 1000 series...
So some do realize that ship has sailed...

They have to because they are still milking a 12 year old ASIC with limited memory. Much harder to compete these days.

Keysight have serial analysis/trigger and DVM/counter standard on their newer 1000/3000 models
R&S have the DVM/counter standard
Rigol have serial analysis/trigger standard on their 2000 series
Siglent/Lecroy have serial analysis/trigger standard on the 2000/3000 platform
Micsig have serial analysis/trigger standard.

Most competitors have serial as standard. All pretty competitive with this brand new Tek, pick any feature you prioritise and one of the above can come out on top but none are killing it on most/every measure.

You can pull all the singular corner case negative examples you like that no-one would realistically consider as an alternative, but actually looking in this bracket the Tek isn't jumping out on anything.

[Fungus]

You can pull all the singular corner case negative examples you like that no-one would realistically consider as an alternative, but actually looking in this bracket the Tek isn't jumping out on anything.

So? This new one is leaping out compared to other Teks.

(which I assume somebody is buying)

We also live in a world where huge numbers of people buy things based on looks, not function. This 'scope is very pretty, it has a tough-looking rubber bumper accessory for the macho types and it makes my Micsic look fairly ugly by comparison.

[nctnico]

and the pain in my side:
"One-year software maintenance that provides access to new firmware releases with updates"

"Maintenance for software: Maintenance license offers access to any software updates within the active period"

no firmware for you!

Totally unacceptable, especially in a new product that will have firmware issues that need fixing. I assume at least the first year will be included ?

You'd think so. Would be insane not to.

I find it weird that this oscilloscope has a 1 year warranty where other Tektronix equipment typically has 3 years of warranty. IMHO it is better to wait for the official announcement and see what turns up on Tektronix' website before jumping to conclusions.

Yet loud and clear in the datasheet is:

Again: who says this is the final datasheet? The product hasn't even been officially released yet! Let's calm down and wait for the official release of both product and datasheet (the current version seems to be missing several specs so is likely to be updated). Speculation leads to nowhere.

[xrunner]

Membrane key pads eh? Let me go across the street and take a pic of my neighbor's microwave oven membrane keypad. You will see what happens to the covering after being pushed many times for a couple of years. 

[bd139]

I bet it's a single overlay sheet as well. Those tend to go off colour and peel at the edges.

Membrane keys is a big no no on durable devices. The only compromise there is medical devices where they are used for hygiene and on cheap stuff because, well they are cheap.

[tggzzz]

So the screen is a membrane screen, not a touch screen?

Screen is capacitive touch. Buttons are membrane.

Yup, which begs the question as to how valid this point is :"You wouldn't want cap touch when hand holding it, you could quite easily accidently activate them."

If you had capacitive front panel buttons as suggested it would be a complete PIA if you hand hold or grab the side and move it around.
The cap touch screen can be turned off if needed, button on the front for that.

The only difference between us is that w.r.t. intended operation when handheld, membrane is not sufficiently better than capacitive.

I'm unconvinced of the widescale benefit of it being handheld: one hand to hold it, one hand to hold the probe in place, one had to control it. Niche cases, yes, but not for most purposes.

You generally wouldn't hand hold it, you'd take it with you somewhere and place it down. Being able to move your scope anywhere without dicking around with power, or simply disconnecting from the mains to prevent common mode noise pickup can be a big deal.

Portable operation is different to handheld; we agree about the advantages of portability.

I'll question how stable it is when stood on something unlike a decent rigid bench, e.g. a curved car bonnet or something flexible, or even a carpeted floor or cushioned chair. Obviously I can't answer that.

[EEVblog]

You can pull all the singular corner case negative examples you like that no-one would realistically consider as an alternative, but actually looking in this bracket the Tek isn't jumping out on anything.

Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
- Has hot swappable batteries with external charging dock for serious field use.
- Has VNC remote operation
- Shares the same interface and software features as high end models, so higher end features flow down to this model.

None of that may matter to you, and that's fine, but I'm pretty impressed with the market differentiation they have done here.

[nctnico]

Those features are rather niche that I doubt these make strong selling points. Also VNC is outdated; nowadays most DSOs have remote web operation that doesn't need specific client software other than a web browser. On top of that VNC has become a bit of a moving target as well; it isn't as standard as it used to be. I while ago I have implemented remote VNC operation for a project for one of my customers but it used to be much easier to use VNC than it is nowadays.

[mawyatt]

..... with VESA mount and rack mount option.

The VESA mount is a feature I wish Siglent would employ, very handy for certain lab use.

Best,

[EEVblog]

Those features are rather niche that I doubt these make good selling points. Also VNC is outdated; nowadays most DSOs have remote web operation that doesn't need specific client software other than a web browser. On top of that VNC has become a bit of a moving target as well; it isn't as standard as it used to be. I while ago I have implemented remote VNC operation for a project for one of my customers but it used to be much easier to use VNC than it is nowadays.

I've yet to see a direct web interface based scope that's even close to being really usable. They are usually pretty gimmicky and fiddly.
VNC works instantly and it's a standard interface and software.
And it's way better than yet another custom app solution.

[EEVblog]

Those features are rather niche that I doubt these make good selling points.

They do for many customers. They would have done their homework.

[Fungus]

The VESA mount is a feature I wish Siglent would employ, very handy for certain lab use.

Get yourself a VESA mounting plate and some self-tappers... 

[Hydron]

Shame they didn't put USB-C on there as a power option - looks like it uses one of those horrible mini-DIN style plugs, so you'll need to carry an extra proprietary adapter with you if you want to use it on the go, and pay top $$$ if you lose the included one.

That support subscription list from the manual didn't seem to mention the FW maintenance option - it's bad enough having to deal with subscription licenses for SW, but for HW that's really shit, especially if there isn't some sort of guarantee that they'll even bother delivering updates once the biggest bugs (i.e. bad enough to affect sales) are squashed.

Dave, RE direct web interface vs VNC- did you try the RTB2004 interface?

Edit: yes I know there are reasons why you might use a special power plug, e.g. earthing, and avoiding some of the USB confusion-factory. But this is already aimed at hand-held use, so earthing is something that needs to be considered anyway (and appears to be catered for with an earth lug on the case).