Author Topic: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope  (Read 66179 times)

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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2022, 06:27:05 am »
If its too light just add lead weight to the base.
Jeff


Ah we have seen that methodology in production before  :popcorn:
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2022, 06:41:08 am »
Ah the problem be software engineers then. As always  :-DD
The neverending rivalry... :-DD

It's not rivalry, they just have no clue... Most of the new gen (pun intended) programmers are learn by heart types. They memorize stuff the see on Internet without real understanding. And have very superficial knowledge.. Not all, but you don't have enough of good ones to run an industrial process that produces good code.
On top of that all of the modern methodologies are shit that is not oriented to making products that work, but to produce lots of visible "deliverables" so bosses see "the work".

I know a bank that forced a software vendor to sign a contract with penalties for bugs.. They actually offered to pay more for base maintenance then vendors asked but penalties for bugs.  Sort of a reverse tips.. And lo and behold, number of bugs went down order of magnitude... Shocker..
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2022, 07:02:07 am »
That’s about right. Have you ever tried recruiting software engineers who know what they are doing?

They stopped my code test at the last place because no one passed it. And there went the quality bar.

The same applies to semi-embedded stuff like scopes. The core will be off the shelf. The ADC and sampling side and mathematics will be handed to the top tier engineers. The rest will be tacked on my lowest bidding crack smoking monkeys and there you have an embedded system ready to ship.
 
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Offline med6753

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2022, 08:27:14 am »
Meh. At least these won't slide across the bench when you attempt to put probes in it.  :P :P :-DD

An old gray beard with an attitude.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2022, 09:05:36 am »
Real scopes don't have web browsers.

You can read datasheets on it.
Yup. Ideal for field work. Put the documentation on the instrument and the scope is all a field engineer needs to bring along.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline pope

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2022, 09:47:00 am »
And remote web control is impossible to use

It's pretty slick ;)

Let's see how "next gen" it is compared to...



If it can't browse EEVBLOG forums then I'm not convinced.  :popcorn:

That music  |O


It's called "8-bit music".

Really!  ;D
 

Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2022, 09:52:47 am »
Real scopes don't have web browsers.

You can read datasheets on it.
Yup. Ideal for field work. Put the documentation on the instrument and the scope is all a field engineer needs to bring along.

This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard of. Give the field engineer an iPad instead. That can be used at the same time, can be used to take notes on and isn’t constrained by a half arsed OS implementation they will inevitably deliver on cost on a scope.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2022, 11:08:49 am »
This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard of. Give the field engineer an iPad instead. That can be used at the same time, can be used to take notes on and isn’t constrained by a half arsed OS implementation they will inevitably deliver on cost on a scope.

They didn't "implement" an OS, it's Android. Android is Linux underneath, just like many other 'scopes these days.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2022, 11:25:21 am »
This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard of. Give the field engineer an iPad instead. That can be used at the same time, can be used to take notes on and isn’t constrained by a half arsed OS implementation they will inevitably deliver on cost on a scope.

They didn't "implement" an OS, it's Android. Android is Linux underneath, just like many other 'scopes these days.

I should have said "stack of crap on top of OS implementation" to be explicit. I mean it might be Android but that doesn't mean it's going to ship with a user interface that is usable for viewing documents both from a what's on the screen perspective, ergonomically speaking or even with the control methodology. And it doesn't mean that it's going to even ship with any extensibility at all. And it doesn't mean it isn't an insane proposition to start with as there are far far far better ways to solve the problem of viewing documents on field work than on the device you're probably working on at the same time with a size constrained display.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2022, 11:43:12 am »
it has batteries. think of it as a low bandwidth hand held scope.

so it's the replacement to the TBS series? Their guy at a fair mentioned they were to come out "soon", if was short before the MDO series was released
 

Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2022, 03:42:02 pm »
Heard from tektronix guy that he had chance to play with it past 3 days and he liked it.
And that they made an effort to optimize for fluent working gui. Also that they still work on series 4 to improve responsiveness.
Seems like we might get something very exciting.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 03:44:08 pm by KrzysztofB »
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2022, 03:47:30 pm »
The same applies to semi-embedded stuff like scopes. The core will be off the shelf. The ADC and sampling side and mathematics will be handed to the top tier engineers. The rest will be tacked on my lowest bidding crack smoking monkeys and there you have an embedded system ready to ship.

T'was always thus.

A few decades ago the equivalent was to get the newly qualified PFY to design the PSU. Guess which bits caused the trouble?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Domitronic

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2022, 04:01:08 pm »

Also that they still work on series 4 to improve responsiveness.


Improve by HW or SW update? Could imagine they make it as 4B, sell a usable GUI as new feature and existing owners of 4 are still screwed.

 

Offline free_electron

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2022, 04:09:56 pm »
so you take a processor, slap a full blown server-grade os on it , install java to emulate a virtual processor ... then build a custom UI on top of that...

anybody see what is wrong with this ? lipstick and hats on a pig
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2022, 04:25:32 pm »
Heard from tektronix guy that he had chance to play with it past 3 days and he liked it.
And that they made an effort to optimize for fluent working gui. Also that they still work on series 4 to improve responsiveness.
Seems like we might get something very exciting.

Was that a joke? I can never tell online....
 

Online nctnico

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2022, 04:33:55 pm »
Real scopes don't have web browsers.

You can read datasheets on it.
Yup. Ideal for field work. Put the documentation on the instrument and the scope is all a field engineer needs to bring along.

This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard of. Give the field engineer an iPad instead. That can be used at the same time, can be used to take notes on and isn’t constrained by a half arsed OS implementation they will inevitably deliver on cost on a scope.
Have you ever seen equipment that has been out with field engineers? It is beaten to crap in no-time. An ipad wouldn't last a week. And the more you need to drag along, the worst things get.

Or think education. If you look at recent offerings from Tektronix, Keysight or R&S you'll see they also offer course work on the oscilloscope itself. https://www.tek.com/en/video/product-features/facilitate-student-learning-with-built-in-courseware-on-the-tbs1000c-oscilloscope BTW: That courseware module can also be used to put field testing guides onto an oscilloscope to guide field engineers through testing / troubleshooting an installation.

All in all a measurement device that can be used to access documents and internet is really handy to have with you in the field.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 04:35:54 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online xrunner

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2022, 04:48:54 pm »
Have you ever seen equipment that has been out with field engineers? It is beaten to crap in no-time. An ipad wouldn't last a week ...

Then how is an expensive instrument going to survive being beaten to crap?
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2022, 04:57:19 pm »
Given how positively surprised I was at just how good the Micsig tablet scope was (especially for the money), I'm curious to see the big budget version.

Have you ever seen equipment that has been out with field engineers? It is beaten to crap in no-time. An ipad wouldn't last a week.

Heh, I dunno, iPad survives toddler attacks pretty darn well  :-DD
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2022, 05:02:41 pm »
Real scopes don't have web browsers.

You can read datasheets on it.
Yup. Ideal for field work. Put the documentation on the instrument and the scope is all a field engineer needs to bring along.

This is the worst idea I’ve ever heard of. Give the field engineer an iPad instead. That can be used at the same time, can be used to take notes on and isn’t constrained by a half arsed OS implementation they will inevitably deliver on cost on a scope.
Have you ever seen equipment that has been out with field engineers? It is beaten to crap in no-time. An ipad wouldn't last a week. And the more you need to drag along, the worst things get.

Or think education. If you look at recent offerings from Tektronix, Keysight or R&S you'll see they also offer course work on the oscilloscope itself. https://www.tek.com/en/video/product-features/facilitate-student-learning-with-built-in-courseware-on-the-tbs1000c-oscilloscope BTW: That courseware module can also be used to put field testing guides onto an oscilloscope to guide field engineers through testing / troubleshooting an installation.

All in all a measurement device that can be used to access documents and internet is really handy to have with you in the field.


Last place I worked had 10,000 iPads out in the field with the lowest aggregate failure rate of any device. They take one hell of a beating believe me and are incredibly robust. Way more robust than any scope on the market.

The courseware module is absolute dog shit on the TBS scopes. I had one in for a bit. It's a box tick feature to get through university and college buyers and absolutely no use for the intended purpose.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 05:04:17 pm by bd139 »
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2022, 06:01:02 pm »
so you take a processor, slap a full blown server-grade os on it , install java to emulate a virtual processor ... then build a custom UI on top of that...

anybody see what is wrong with this ? lipstick and hats on a pig

I'll note that in the 90s some HP and Tek test equipment was built on top of Smalltalk.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2022, 06:17:35 pm »

Or think education. If you look at recent offerings from Tektronix, Keysight or R&S you'll see they also offer course work on the oscilloscope itself. https://www.tek.com/en/video/product-features/facilitate-student-learning-with-built-in-courseware-on-the-tbs1000c-oscilloscope BTW: That courseware module can also be used to put field testing guides onto an oscilloscope to guide field engineers through testing / troubleshooting an installation.

All in all a measurement device that can be used to access documents and internet is really handy to have with you in the field.


The courseware module is absolute dog shit on the TBS scopes. I had one in for a bit. It's a box tick feature to get through university and college buyers and absolutely no use for the intended purpose.
The courseware is just an example to show the general idea of turning an oscilloscope into a multi-function device is not as outlandisch as you may think. In the past decades we have seen all kinds of new (alien) features on oscilloscopes that used to be seperate devices like logic analysis, protocol decoding, spectrum analysis, waveform generators, DMM, power analysis, network analysis, etc. So why not add being able to access documents and internet? Makes perfect sense to me; MicSig seems to think so as well.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 06:30:54 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2022, 07:08:23 pm »
The courseware is just an example to show the general idea of turning an oscilloscope into a multi-function device is not as outlandisch as you may think. In the past decades we have seen all kinds of new (alien) features on oscilloscopes that used to be seperate devices like logic analysis, protocol decoding, spectrum analysis, waveform generators, DMM, power analysis, network analysis, etc. So why not add being able to access documents and internet? Makes perfect sense to me; MicSig seems to think so as well.

Sure all these "alien" features you mention are useful additions to a measurement instrument and make sense to have them in there, but I rather browse documentation or the internet on one or both of my big computer screens. Having the scopes documentation on it could be helpful but I find it easier if it is on paper or a separate device when I am operating the scope and not have to go back and forth between the documentation and the actual scope screen.

Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2022, 07:24:43 pm »

Or think education. If you look at recent offerings from Tektronix, Keysight or R&S you'll see they also offer course work on the oscilloscope itself. https://www.tek.com/en/video/product-features/facilitate-student-learning-with-built-in-courseware-on-the-tbs1000c-oscilloscope BTW: That courseware module can also be used to put field testing guides onto an oscilloscope to guide field engineers through testing / troubleshooting an installation.

All in all a measurement device that can be used to access documents and internet is really handy to have with you in the field.


The courseware module is absolute dog shit on the TBS scopes. I had one in for a bit. It's a box tick feature to get through university and college buyers and absolutely no use for the intended purpose.
The courseware is just an example to show the general idea of turning an oscilloscope into a multi-function device is not as outlandisch as you may think. In the past decades we have seen all kinds of new (alien) features on oscilloscopes that used to be seperate devices like logic analysis, protocol decoding, spectrum analysis, waveform generators, DMM, power analysis, network analysis, etc. So why not add being able to access documents and internet? Makes perfect sense to me; MicSig seems to think so as well.

If that’s what you want buy a picoscope and work back to a usable oscilloscope not from an oscilloscope to a usable computer   :-DD
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2022, 07:41:18 pm »
so you take a processor, slap a full blown server-grade os on it , install java to emulate a virtual processor ... then build a custom UI on top of that...

anybody see what is wrong with this ? lipstick and hats on a pig

It works for all those smartphones out there.  :-//

I don't recall my Micsig ever slowing down because I turned on a feature, unlike the expensive Teks that people are complaining about here.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2022, 07:43:19 pm »
Ah the problem be software engineers then. As always  :-DD
The neverending rivalry... :-DD

It's not rivalry, they just have no clue... Most of the new gen (pun intended) programmers are learn by heart types. They memorize stuff the see on Internet without real understanding. And have very superficial knowledge.. Not all, but you don't have enough of good ones to run an industrial process that produces good code.
On top of that all of the modern methodologies are shit that is not oriented to making products that work, but to produce lots of visible "deliverables" so bosses see "the work".
To be honest, this same issue can be applicable to HW as well - slap a microcontroller to do absolutely every.single.function on the equipment with a bootstrap routine that scans all this and fails at the first sign of NACK due to a blown LED and you end up with a soup of über complex hardware.

so you take a processor, slap a full blown server-grade os on it , install java to emulate a virtual processor ... then build a custom UI on top of that...

anybody see what is wrong with this ? lipstick and hats on a pig
At least the server-grade OS is fully guaranteed to operate with a shiny interface that will become a green box on the upper management scorecard and it will be sold in the pamphlets as "increasing the synergy between fault diagnosis and cloud integration by means of the integrated web browser which allows to have the ultimate device information at the technician's fingertips, all in a compact package that features the latest in ultra-crisp 4k UHD 4-inch TFT-LCD technology display".
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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