Author Topic: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope  (Read 66140 times)

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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #225 on: May 24, 2022, 10:44:17 pm »
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.

I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #226 on: May 24, 2022, 10:57:42 pm »
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.

I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.

Yeah I rather like that idea having worked on test line stuff. On an articulated arm, that could be very usable.
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #227 on: May 24, 2022, 11:04:39 pm »

I think that is a grounding cable....

Maybe... I can't tell if that's a banana jack, or a locking plug that's been turned sideways.
It's a grounding cable.  It has a big alligator on one end and a lug on the other end which attaches to the thumbscrew on the left side.  I have the same cable that was supplied with my TDS3054, which can also be battery powered.  They really don't want you floating it.

Also, I haven't seen a single photo yet with any probes attached.  I could see them detracting from the whole tablet-i-ness of it, sticking out like that.
 

Online tautech

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #228 on: May 24, 2022, 11:07:52 pm »
I've yet to see a direct web interface based scope that's even close to being really usable. They are usually pretty gimmicky and fiddly.
the R&S RTB/RTM scopes work very well

Yes, forgot about that.
The responsiveness of the R&S and the Tek seems the same.
You need get other gear off the shelf more regularly and try it.
We regularly use beta tester equipment remotely on the other side of the world and apart from time of day dependent latency they work just fine.
All good gear has these features and unless they worked properly they wouldn't be integrated into new gear.   
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Online tggzzz

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #229 on: May 24, 2022, 11:12:28 pm »
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.

I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.

Yeah I rather like that idea having worked on test line stuff. On an articulated arm, that could be very usable.
I'm beguiled by the VESA mount too, especially with a small workbench or where there is a lot of equipment on the bench.

However, I do wonder how easy/tiring it will be to do repeated fine two-finger manipulations of something a arms length and above shoulder height.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 11:15:34 pm by tggzzz »
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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #230 on: May 24, 2022, 11:32:04 pm »
However, I do wonder how easy/tiring it will be to do repeated fine two-finger manipulations of something a arms length and above shoulder height.

You can always remote control it, or mouse control it.
It works with my wireless logitech mouse just fine. And the thing about the new gen 2/3/4/5/6 Tek interface is that everything is completely controllable from the screen using either touch, mouse, or VNC remote control. It's the same experience across all the different methods. You don't need the front panel controls.
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #231 on: May 25, 2022, 12:10:14 am »
This feels like a straight downgrade over a R&S RTB or RTH (depending on if you need field use or not). Yes, it fulfils a slightly different niche, but at 2x the price?

For a field use scope only CAT II sucks as well.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #232 on: May 25, 2022, 12:20:43 am »
As far as the membrane keypad - it will develop fatigue cracks eventually. Here's a pic of my neighbor's microwave oven keypad to show what happens after repeated pressing for a few years. This from an older couple entering times to warm up coffee and leftovers. Before they had to replace their dishwasher because of leaks, it had the same issues with it's membrane keys (two different manufacturers).
That depends on material used for the particular membrane. Many last for a very long time in frequent use without much degradation. Others fall apart just outside warranty.
 
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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #233 on: May 25, 2022, 12:34:54 am »
This feels like a straight downgrade over a R&S RTB or RTH (depending on if you need field use or not). Yes, it fulfils a slightly different niche, but at 2x the price?

I doubt it was really designed to win big market share from competitors lower end bench scopes. It's another (obvious) entry in their 3/4/5/6 series line that provides a smaller and portable option using the same interface. It's mainly catering to the existing 3/4/5/6 series buyer base and filling a hole in their lineup. Plus they might gain some new market share from those that want the portable or VESA mount flexibility.
As for pricing it's actually on par or even slightly less than the base 70MHz R&S 2002/2004 models.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 12:37:20 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline DEV001

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #234 on: May 25, 2022, 01:49:19 am »
I wonder if this means the bandwidth is fully software upgradable and has any other Tek scope been 'upgraded' like Rigol or Siglent models? From Page 22 of the datasheet,.

Step 2 – Configure bandwidth mandatory
Configure your oscilloscope by selecting the analog channel bandwidth you need. You can also upgrade the bandwidth later by purchasing an upgrade option.

Bandwidth option  Bandwidth range
2-BW-70              70 MHz
2-BW-100            100 MHz
2-BW-200           200 MHz
2-BW-350           350 MHz
2-BW-500           500 MHz
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 01:57:21 am by DEV001 »
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #235 on: May 25, 2022, 02:09:00 am »
I wonder if this means the bandwidth is fully software upgradable and has any other Tek scope been 'upgraded' like Rigol or Siglent models? From Page 22 of the datasheet,.

Yes, software license upgradable, just like 3/4/5/6 series and how every manufacturer does it. Although I think some of those higher BW series are hardware differentiated, as once you get past 500MHz the front ends get really expensive.
The old Tek I2C chip module licences have been cloned IIRC, but to my knowledge the 3/4/5/6 haven't?
 

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #236 on: May 25, 2022, 04:48:48 am »
As far as the membrane keypad - it will develop fatigue cracks eventually. Here's a pic of my neighbor's microwave oven keypad to show what happens after repeated pressing for a few years.


C'mon, that's the cheapest possible membrane keyboard, it's flat, and it looks like it has a lot of depth/travel on the buttons.

I can think of half a dozen places which use membrane keyboards in 'industrial' situations (big CNC machines where I work, the entrance to the local yacht club...) and they hold up just fine.

The ones with a molded ridge around each key also have a lot more stretch to the membrane than flat membranes like in that photo.

Edit: A quick google search for "industrial membrane keyboard" shows many claims of "1 million presses".
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:55:38 am by Fungus »
 
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Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #237 on: May 25, 2022, 05:01:58 am »
I went to see tektronix distributor yesterday.
Of course he didn't want to tell me too much about 2 series, bit knowing the fact that I already know everything I read here, he became more chatty.
I really think this product will find his entusiasts.
Also, prices for that one are suppose to be descent, maybe not rigol prices but hey, it's always less that some stuff is more expensive in the world, that is.
Fun fact he had a photo showing all 2-6 series,  that he wanted to hide before he knew I saw it already.

Also played with 3, 4 and 6 series, and what I know is I'm definitely putting order for 4B when that one will be released. Hope not in million years.
New tektronix gui feels fantastic, is very intuitive.
I also picked up yesterday Keysight DSO-S-204A
Honestly after playing with that Tek4, Keysight GUI makes wonder if I did right getting it.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #238 on: May 25, 2022, 07:19:17 am »
I really like the look of it and after owning a Micsig I think it would be difficult to go back to a "traditional" 'scope so this would fit the bill nicely if I ever win the lottery.

The only thing that bothers me is having the probes on the front. That takes up several inches of bench space for no good reason (compared to having them on the top) and I'm sure they'll get in the way of your hands when you're trying to touch the bottom of the screen.

I guess that's what the VESA mount is for...

(but the probes will still be in the way of your hands even with that)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 07:21:13 am by Fungus »
 

Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #239 on: May 25, 2022, 07:53:54 am »
I guess that's what the VESA mount is for...
(but the probes will still be in the way of your hands even with that)
Maybe 90deg adapter would to the job?
 

Online tv84

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #240 on: May 25, 2022, 08:02:00 am »
The only thing that bothers me is having the probes on the front.

I guess front probes makes it very easy on the PCB (it's the traditional way...) but seems a hell of a mess when holding such thing with one hand and handling the menus with the other. Besides loosing lots of front space...

Couldn't they have learned something from Micsig? Let's hope Tek had 1,000s of testers doing ergonomic dry runs...  ::)

I think this is one of those cases where even these big companies don't know how to migrate from the legacy interfaces to the handheld world.
 

Offline med6753

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #241 on: May 25, 2022, 08:34:42 am »
As far as the membrane keypad - it will develop fatigue cracks eventually. Here's a pic of my neighbor's microwave oven keypad to show what happens after repeated pressing for a few years.


C'mon, that's the cheapest possible membrane keyboard, it's flat, and it looks like it has a lot of depth/travel on the buttons.

I can think of half a dozen places which use membrane keyboards in 'industrial' situations (big CNC machines where I work, the entrance to the local yacht club...) and they hold up just fine.

The ones with a molded ridge around each key also have a lot more stretch to the membrane than flat membranes like in that photo.

Edit: A quick google search for "industrial membrane keyboard" shows many claims of "1 million presses".

Indeed. This is the membrane on my 6+ year old microwave which gets daily use. Slight additional depression on the "1" but other than that in excellent shape.

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #242 on: May 25, 2022, 08:54:15 am »
The only thing that bothers me is having the probes on the front.

I guess front probes makes it very easy on the PCB (it's the traditional way...) but seems a hell of a mess when holding such thing with one hand and handling the menus with the other. Besides loosing lots of front space...
Will be interesting to test the BNC inputs for microphonic behavior as they are recessed and frontward facing and in such a thin enclosure.
Let's hope Tek did this right especially in a portable device.  :popcorn:
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Online tv84

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #243 on: May 25, 2022, 09:01:13 am »
Unless this is just a browse device to surf prerecorded signals...



How could one place the hand like this with the probes inserted?  (Oh, sorry, we can use 1 channel.)

Why isn't there any example pic in the datasheet showing hands+probes? ?
 
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Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #244 on: May 25, 2022, 09:11:05 am »
Good ergonomic design is always an issue. What are these designers thinking one might ask.

Offline JPortici

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #245 on: May 25, 2022, 10:01:57 am »
This was not designed to be a handheld. Handheld is the only case that would really benefit from top or side BNCs, in any other case you would gladly prefer them to be on the front (even if the scope is in your lap. I regularly have situations in which i keep the laptop on my lap to monitor a device and scope posed on the laptop keyboard to look at signals. BNC on the side maybe, BNC on top/bottom hell no)
 

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #246 on: May 25, 2022, 11:06:06 am »
This was not designed to be a handheld. Handheld is the only case that would really benefit from top or side BNCs, in any other case you would gladly prefer them to be on the front (even if the scope is in your lap. I regularly have situations in which i keep the laptop on my lap to monitor a device and scope posed on the laptop keyboard to look at signals. BNC on the side maybe, BNC on top/bottom hell no)

BNC on top is just fine for micsig...
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #247 on: May 25, 2022, 11:10:29 am »

C'mon, that's the cheapest possible membrane keyboard, it's flat, and it looks like it has a lot of depth/travel on the buttons.

I can think of half a dozen places which use membrane keyboards in 'industrial' situations (big CNC machines where I work, the entrance to the local yacht club...) and they hold up just fine.

The ones with a molded ridge around each key also have a lot more stretch to the membrane than flat membranes like in that photo.

Edit: A quick google search for "industrial membrane keyboard" shows many claims of "1 million presses".

Is this like a "big CNC machine" where you work, i.e. expensive industrial design? I don't think it is. We don't know what quality Tek has chosen for the design. There is no reason for me to believe that they chose a high quality industrial membrane for a scope like this. The plain fact is, the membrane keypads can wear out and if this is a cheaper mechanical design it will look like that microwave oven keypad eventually. Neither you nor I know what will happen. I am simply pointing out what can happen in the free exchange of information here, and the buyer should beware.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 11:18:37 am by xrunner »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #248 on: May 25, 2022, 03:08:17 pm »

C'mon, that's the cheapest possible membrane keyboard, it's flat, and it looks like it has a lot of depth/travel on the buttons.

I can think of half a dozen places which use membrane keyboards in 'industrial' situations (big CNC machines where I work, the entrance to the local yacht club...) and they hold up just fine.

The ones with a molded ridge around each key also have a lot more stretch to the membrane than flat membranes like in that photo.

Edit: A quick google search for "industrial membrane keyboard" shows many claims of "1 million presses".

Is this like a "big CNC machine" where you work, i.e. expensive industrial design? I don't think it is. We don't know what quality Tek has chosen for the design. There is no reason for me to believe that they chose a high quality industrial membrane for a scope like this. The plain fact is, the membrane keypads can wear out and if this is a cheaper mechanical design it will look like that microwave oven keypad eventually. Neither you nor I know what will happen. I am simply pointing out what can happen in the free exchange of information here, and the buyer should beware.
As long as they make spares available, not a huge deal - I'm sure they will have chosen something with appropriate wear lifetime
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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #249 on: May 25, 2022, 03:45:04 pm »
Maybe, maybe not. Depends what the end user specification is.

The thing I know will happen is some numbskull engineer will poke the buttons with a scope probe or screwdriver which just happens to be in their hand and penetrate the membrane.
 
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