Author Topic: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes  (Read 33227 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« on: August 03, 2015, 03:59:05 am »
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=57&SortID=87&ProID=182#sthash.z3SFg8BA.dpbs
They claim a true 12 bit converter on several models
WiFi, multimeter, AWG, battery option
They might be sending me one.
Anyone seen one in the wild?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2015, 05:37:58 am »
Seems they still have VGA output, but on the specs it's listed as an option.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 05:45:04 am »
Seems they still have VGA output, but on the specs it's listed as an option.

One of the preferred feature for me personally, as looking at a lcd monitor say even the smallest one in the market, and even at lowres is a lot better than the tiny scope's screen for an old deteriorating eyes.

Offline Deathwish

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2015, 08:26:31 am »
Seems they still have VGA output, but on the specs it's listed as an option.

One of the preferred feature for me personally, as looking at a lcd monitor say even the smallest one in the market, and even at lowres is a lot better than the tiny scope's screen for an old deteriorating eyes.

I hear that one. It is getting to the point I cant see things to solder them properly anymore, its like fumbling in the dark.
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2015, 08:32:53 am »
Seems they still have VGA output, but on the specs it's listed as an option.

One of the preferred feature for me personally, as looking at a lcd monitor say even the smallest one in the market, and even at lowres is a lot better than the tiny scope's screen for an old deteriorating eyes.

I hear that one. It is getting to the point I cant see things to solder them properly anymore, its like fumbling in the dark.

Yup, bad eyes here as well.
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 09:43:37 am »
Nice that they've finally increased the screen resolution, but it still looks like it would fall over when you pressed any of the top buttons.

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Offline Mark

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 10:39:35 am »
I have one of the SDS8102 which also has the 8", 800*600 screen.  It's a great screen with a good viewing angle.  It looks like the XDS might use the same screen. 
They have remplaced the hard plastic menu buttons on the bottom and side of the screen with soft rubber buttons, but I hope they have improved the menu system and structure,  there is just too much bottom menu press, side menu press, twiddle knob, bottom press , side press  etc etc ! 
The bandwidth of the SDS is also very generous, it's specified as 100MHz but tested recently at 200MHz.  The hardware trigger counter works to 350MHz. 

Glad to see Owon cooming out with something new, I look forward to a review. 
 
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2015, 12:55:52 pm »
Nice that they've finally increased the screen resolution....

Since October 2010  Owon SDS series have been with 8" 800x600 TFT and today XDS3000 series continue  same size and resolution in standard version. I hope they still use same high quality TFT as in SDS series.
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Offline McBryce

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2015, 01:03:40 pm »
Ah, didn't know that, I've only ever seen their MSO series in real life and the owner told me they all had 640x480 screens (although I'm pretty convinced that it was displaying a 320x240 image).

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2015, 06:26:03 pm »
Ah, didn't know that, I've only ever seen their MSO series in real life and the owner told me they all had 640x480 screens (although I'm pretty convinced that it was displaying a 320x240 image).

McBryce.

XDS3000 (8bit ADC) and XDS3000A  (12bit ADC) have also optional capasitive touch screen.
Base model have  800x600 but  there is also optinal 1024 x 768 pixels IPS display.
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Offline marshallh

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 07:04:27 pm »
Wow, looks like a shameless clone of the Rigol look and feel. All those random oblique angles for no reason.
Unfortunately software seems to be an afterthought with owon.
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Offline McBryce

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 07:15:11 pm »
If you search for pictures of the Owon XDS3000 on google or bing you get zero results?? How is that even possible. I don't think I've ever got zero results for a picture search? Where did you find a picture of one? (Or is my search somehow broken?)

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Offline wluwlu1234

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2015, 10:28:36 pm »
If you go for instance to  http://www.owon.com.hk/
there you'll have some pictures though admitted not the biggest.
Also a quick user guide (in english) is available for download.

What puzzles me a bit is the -A version with 12-bit (4096steps) vertical resolution and how they could keep up the claimed 75.000 wfps. It is a whole lot
more data to be crunched versus the traditional 8-bit (256steps) scopes. Also they are asking only like 150 Euros extra for the 12-bit version.

Currently I see a lot of new scope models coming to market e.g. Owon XDS series and also Siglent with their 1000X series (which soon will come in a MSO
version called SDS1102X-LA) then for the 100MHz unit. Also GW Instek have revamped their 2000 platform now with an -E suffix. It gets interesting
but also a bit more confusing to make the right choice I guess.

And I also heard that R&S in their value line (Hameg) are developping a touchscreen version of their lower priced DSO's. Looks like a hot end 2015 throughout
2016 year of new T&M. Also then maybe harder & harder to review. Soon new DSO's coming out as fast as new smartphones  :-// and pricing more and more hitting
the floor. Who would have thought about all these goodies some years ago in T&M...
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2015, 02:35:35 am »
What puzzles me a bit is the -A version with 12-bit (4096steps) vertical resolution and how they could keep up the claimed 75.000 wfps. It is a whole lot
more data to be crunched versus the traditional 8-bit (256steps) scopes. Also they are asking only like 150 Euros extra for the 12-bit version.

Two ideas:

1. Vertical resolution is simply limited in software.
2. The entire platform was developed with a 12-bit resolution in mind and the non-A version swaps one or more parts of the input architecture for cheaper versions (ADC, FPGA, etc.)

But it seems likely that it's just 1. at play (or maybe that's my wishful thinking?). >:D  :popcorn:
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2015, 07:10:43 am »

What puzzles me a bit is the -A version with 12-bit (4096steps) vertical resolution and how they could keep up the claimed 75.000 wfps. It is a whole lot
more data to be crunched versus the traditional 8-bit (256steps) scopes.
Also they are asking only like 150 Euros extra for the 12-bit version.


12Bit 1GSa/s ADC
12Bit ADC. 1GSa/s in 8Bit mode, 500MSa/s in 12bit mode.
8bit 1GSa/s ADC

Both give same amount of samples out.
What need hanle more?
Of course 12 bit math is some amount more than 8bit math. How much continuous math you need do? (there in real time stream)   With fastest wfm/s and or fastest horizontal speeds there is  high amount of blind time for math and other handling.
If wfm/s with 20ns/div is 75000 (just imagined, not true) whole waveform time is around 200ns (if 10div)
and 13100 ns is just blind time for next 200ns capture.  Acquire engine do not need do lot of math, it can do with side engine, depending design.

Today ADC's, FPGA's etc have developed forward very fast. Where is problem.
I predict that there is coming many other manufacturers who follow Owon.
We remember time when SDS was launched. 1GSa/s entry level scope where was 10M  full speed sampling buffer for both channels. Front end design was amazing good with totally different than example market "leader" Rigol DS1052E at this time.  At this time Owon also use new analog circuit front end and true one chip expensive ADC (original AD or its  RuiFeng clone).  and this time most manufacturers use example 10 cheap 100MSa/s ADC's  more or less poorly interleaved and even more they use 40MHz classified cheap chips of this ADC what was designed to 100MHz.
Later they (looks like) nearly copy this Owon SDS front end principle to Rigol DS2000. (2/1GSa/s version)

Now Owon make XDS3000A versions what have 12bit ADC.  ADC12bit A model and ADC8bit  without A model is only difference. Rest of scope can be in HW same design. (but this is only guessing based to long time experience and knowledge with this kind of things and also experience with Owon, Rigol, Hantek, Siglent - and of course western companies equipments)

Bottle neck have been ADC if think resolution and sampling speed. It is not anymore so much if we talk in under 4-5GSa/s range.  Other bottle neck is memory speed (and of course data handling speed between ADC and meomory specially for digital side trigger process when this principle is used. Older times it was nearly only possible in cheap scopes to use analog side trigger. As example Rigol DS1000E, Siglent SDS1000, Owon SDS series... etc. In these things world have changed really fast.  Digital trigger was available only in advanced more expensive scopes.

At this time (I have heard from little birds) there is only A models available from Owon.

Personally I hope I get one XDS3kA soon, so I can check what is reality and what was only quessing.

I have waited long time manufacturers start making low noise analog front ends and more than 8 bit resolution to nearly entry level scopes.   Lowest V/div in XDS is 1mV/div.    I do not know if it is BW limit forced and/or if it is pixel zoomed from 2mV/div or what it is. If it is low noise native 1mV/div sensitivity it is ok for true 12bit scope.   Siglent have launched SDS1000X serie where is 500uV/div native sensitivity (claimed by Siglent).

Entry level to lover middle level scopes have fast developed better.  Perhaps soon we see next jump to up. Not sampling speed and memory speed but now also resolution start rise from tens of years "normal" 8bit to higher. It may happend fast. It also depends how components prices come down from sky.

But parts of about Owon XDS is now speculation until truth can see with real XDS3102A on the lab table.



« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 08:36:46 am by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline rdl

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 07:33:22 am »
Wow, looks like a shameless clone of the Rigol look and feel. All those random oblique angles for no reason.

Lol, absolutely the worst thing about most recent Rigol offerings is their toy styled front panel designs. Somebody actually thought it a good idea to copy that?  :-DD
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 08:53:08 am »
Nice to see that they've at least taken notice and ditched the hard to read Red colour for Channel 1.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2015, 05:25:42 pm »
Just one image. I can not tell much more yet.  Multitouch display works some amount better than what I expect (of course simultaneously all normal adjustment are normally working so there is nothing forcet only for touch - of course). Fun detail is that fast double knock to display stop and run scope.   Just quick check and max wfm/s is least over 60000wfm/s


 -3dB BW is somewhere around 180MHz (not yet accurate meas)
12bit resolution force one channel max samplerate down to 500MSa/s and it looks like it also affect BW small drop, but not much)

Some day more.

Only information in this image is that scope is running and it display something, so now I know this product is not only image on the paper.

And... FW is 1.0.0.0   (hope soon first fixes)

1mV and 2mV/div both are  BW rejected.

Agen 8" 800x600 TFT itself is really good (contrast, brightness, angle..)! Also this touch panel model.
Perhaps it is also because Lilliput company have long time worked with monitors.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 07:34:16 pm by rf-loop »
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Online Hydrawerk

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2015, 10:39:53 pm »
I wonder if there is any visual persistence feature. Well, the scope still looks like a toy. It is apparently inspired by Rigol rear design. I am looking forward to the review!
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Online Hydrawerk

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2015, 10:43:56 pm »
Quote
Agen 8" 800x600 TFT itself is really good (contrast, brightness, angle..)!
That is nice, but my 17" LCD PC monitor from 2006 is also so good. LCDs are cheap nowadays.
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Offline Deckert

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2015, 11:19:14 pm »
And is that a full-blown DMM?



--deckert
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2015, 12:24:55 am »
And is that a full-blown DMM?



--deckert
As noted in the specs, it's a very basic 4000 count meter. Doesn't list TrueRMS or say anything about input protection.
 

Online Howardlong

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2015, 12:27:40 am »
And is that a full-blown DMM?


Looks like a full blown afterthought!
 

Online Hydrawerk

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2015, 08:51:35 pm »
What is that?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:52:23 am by Hydrawerk »
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Offline McBryce

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Re: New Owon XDS Oscilloscopes
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2015, 09:00:03 pm »
A very immature user who really needs to be banned.

McBryce.

Edit: This and Hydrawerks post above no longer make sense, as the offending post has now been deleted.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 11:16:59 pm by McBryce »
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