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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: maxwell3e10 on September 11, 2018, 04:35:23 pm

Title: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 11, 2018, 04:35:23 pm
It looks like Rigol released a new series of function generators with 16-bit vertical resolution. The models range from DG811 - 1 channel 10 MHz for $279 to DG992 - 2 channel 100 MHz for $1000.
DG822 -2 channel 25 MHz with 10 MHz square wave and 125 MSa/s for $329 might be the sweet spot.

I've been looking recently at high vertical resolution generators, so I am curious how the new Rigol ones would compare with SDG2042X and Keysight 33522B.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kuba_eM on September 11, 2018, 04:53:10 pm
but the look is like a horror movie ...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 11, 2018, 04:57:03 pm
well, launch date is tomorrow September the 12th :)
DG800 and DG900 are entry level models not to compete with SDG2000X or 33522B.

DG800 data sheet
https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/DG8e9/DG800_Datasheet_EN.pdf (https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/DG8e9/DG800_Datasheet_EN.pdf)

DG900 data sheet
https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/DG8e9/DG900_Datasheet_EN.pdf (https://www.batterfly.com/PDF/RIGOL/DG8e9/DG900_Datasheet_EN.pdf)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 11, 2018, 07:09:39 pm
DG800 and DG900 are entry level models not to compete with SDG2000X or 33522B.

They all have SiFi II/True Arb/TrueForm that is supposed to improve waveform fidelity and reduce jitter.
It would be interesting to compare their approaches to waveform interpolation and just the cleanliness of a sine wave on a spectrum analyzer. 

DG800 datasheet says 200 ps jitter or 5 ps jitter depending on the filter for arbitrary waveform. SDG2000X datasheet says 150 ps jitter, no additional filter. 33522B says 40 ps to 5 ps, depending on filter.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2018, 07:52:45 pm
It looks like Rigol released a new series of function generators with 16-bit vertical resolution. The models range from DG811 - 1 channel 10 MHz for $279 to DG992 - 2 channel 100 MHz for $1000.
DG822 -2 channel 25 MHz with 10 MHz square wave and 125 MSa/s for $329 might be the sweet spot.


SDG1032X is 150 MSa, 14 bit and does square to 30 MHz for just a few $ more. SDG1062X goes to 60 MHz square wave.
SDG2042X is 1.2 GSa, 16 bit and does square wave to 25 MHz.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: blueskull on September 11, 2018, 08:00:57 pm
SDG2042X is 1.2 GSa, 16 bit and does square wave to 25 MHz.

Did you miss a zero?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 11, 2018, 08:07:14 pm
SDG2042X is 1.2 GSa, 16 bit and does square wave to 25 MHz.

Did you miss a zero?
Nope.
Sine is only 40 MHz on that model but for those that want to hack them it can be improved to 120 MHz (SDG2122X) but still square is 25 MHz.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ogden on September 11, 2018, 08:56:02 pm
Booby prize of design awards goes to... Rigol 16-bit function generator!!!!

:palm:

Design with every new instrument is getting worse. They shall check mental health of designers and product decision makers ASAP.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: blackdog on September 11, 2018, 09:13:43 pm
Hi,
For anyone who does not know yet, necessary for a good square wave representation, at least 10x more bandwidth is required than for a sinus.

So if the generator has a maximum sine frequency of 40MHz then at least 400MHZ bandwidth is needed from the DAC and the amplifier steps behind this.
For a really nice block reproduction I usually use 15x the bandwidth.

Yes i know, live sucks  :-DD

Do not forget to check the max output level, at the max Frequency of the generator, and get dissapointed (almost all generators have a  mutch lower output level at the higer frequency)

Kind regards,
Bram
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: MikeP on September 11, 2018, 09:16:28 pm
 Total Harmonic Distortion[1] <0.075% (10 Hz to 20 kHz)
 It 's about -63dB.  :wtf:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Pinkus on September 11, 2018, 09:45:50 pm
Booby prize of design awards goes to... Rigol 16-bit function generator!!!!

:palm:

Design with every new instrument is getting worse. They shall check mental health of designers and product decision makers ASAP.
But you have to keep in mind that they designed the case so that the air can circulate, even if the device is next to or under other devices. That's why a fanless design was possible.
Thats: +1
Also: real power switch: +1

I do not mind the look of the back of a housing a lot, as long as the front (which I am seeing all the time and I am working with) is fine.

They still use different shapes of buttons, but I would be able to tolerate it here as (probably because of the lack of more buttons) the design is clear and not crowded. They could have done worse.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: EEVblog on September 11, 2018, 10:16:03 pm
Someone was thinking

(https://i.imgur.com/TFEBgBZ.png)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Daruosha on September 11, 2018, 10:46:03 pm
Booby prize of design awards goes to... Rigol 16-bit function generator!!!!

:palm:

Design with every new instrument is getting worse. They shall check mental health of designers and product decision makers ASAP.

Are these AWGs designed for gamers? Somebody please find the head designer and slap him as hard as possible in the face! WTF!! Look at the top of the unit in the datasheets.  |O :-DD

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on September 11, 2018, 11:08:31 pm
Are these AWGs are designed for gamers? Somebody please find the head designer and slap him as hard as possible in the face! WTF!! Look at the top of the unit in the datasheets.  |O :-DD

It looks a bit wild, but if something else is stacked on top (it seems like it is designed to accommodate this), then you won't even see the top.

Consider how often people here compare about fan noise for hobbyist instruments, it seems like they are catering directly to that audience. Of course this could be done without the wild stylings too.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: DaJMasta on September 11, 2018, 11:39:49 pm
Fanless is great, crazy gaming PC design doesn't match anything on my bench.  I don't really think industrial equipment needs to look scifi (or have SciFi II tech  :-DD) or be super edgy.... at least no RGB lights.


Doesn't seem like incredible pricing, but it's about competitive and the waveform memory seems big, hopefully they have a lot of built in modes and patterns.


EDIT: oh actually the 800 series looks much more like a bit of test gear.  Maybe there's some LeCroy bench where the 900 fits in terms of color, at least, but the DG900 wouldn't fit next to their own brand new DS7000.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 12, 2018, 02:45:15 am
Wrong design for the market, but at least the buttons/labels all face the same direction (looking at you, DS7000!).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: xrunner on September 12, 2018, 03:18:14 am
How can I set my coffee cup on top of that?  :(
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 12, 2018, 05:23:11 am
How can I set my coffee cup on top of that?  :(

Have Rigol design a coffe cup ?   8)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 12, 2018, 05:28:21 am
 :-DD Good one, Tom. Maybe the gen will keep it warm for you, too — but only warm :P.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 12, 2018, 06:10:04 am
So since it doesn't make any fan noise anymore, maybe searching for "noise DG822" in the future will instead reveal more results on how well the 16-bit ADC is working.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maukka on September 12, 2018, 06:19:25 am
One unlisted Youtube video on the product page (https://www.rigol.eu/products/waveform-generators/dg800/):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-cUezMsNQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV-cUezMsNQ)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 12, 2018, 06:26:30 am
Reminds me of the Flying Sub (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USOS_Seaview#Refit_and_the_Flying_Sub) from the TV series, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_to_the_Bottom_of_the_Sea_(TV_series)).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: MrW0lf on September 12, 2018, 06:37:24 am
(https://s8295.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/jet1-thumbnail-e1427745032646.jpg)

Are they trying to fly under the bug radar with this new stealth design ::)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 12, 2018, 08:04:12 am
If that tiny rocker switch is a real mains switch I can't see it lasting long
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 12, 2018, 08:07:08 am
"seven bit 240MHz function generator".. I think they mean seven digit...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timgiles on September 12, 2018, 08:47:13 am
Kinda feel like the black 900 model should have gold plated connectors.... bit of a missed opportunity!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 12, 2018, 09:22:41 am
Help ! Darth Vader tried to land on my lab desk !  >:D

Well, its an entry level thing. The 16bits look nice, but when you see the distortion specs they are 10dB worse than the DG1000Z series.
Output level and square wave data (risetime, max. frequency) is not spectacular, either.

I dont think I really need one of those ...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: xrunner on September 12, 2018, 11:57:19 am
How can I set my coffee cup on top of that?  :(

Have Rigol design a coffe cup ?   8)

I can see it coming - pure marketing genius from Rigol! They're leaning! :clap:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Andrew on September 12, 2018, 01:09:49 pm
If it uses "Natural Heat Dissipation Without Fan" then what does the internal fan do?

Page 11 of both datasheets "Cooling Method: Fan cooled"?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: asmi on September 12, 2018, 01:17:37 pm
I like the way it looks! Definitely 10000 times better than typical boring white boxes that other vendors are pumping out...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 12, 2018, 01:40:04 pm
If you like the design, I have some more suggestions for you:

- LED lighting like a gaming PC or car stereo that flickers in the rythm of output modulation
- breathing noises if the unit suffers from higher temperatures
- avaliability in all major neon colors
- a "special" edition in gold for the higher bandwidth models
- animated GUI with all kinds of beeps, grunts and sounds following your touchscreen inputs
- a "home entertainment" model with just 30dB harmonic suppression, but extra space invaders effects for a very attractive price.

 :-- |O :wtf: :palm: :palm: :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: asmi on September 12, 2018, 02:38:18 pm
If you like the design, I have some more suggestions for you:
<skipped>
See ya guys are so boring, you can't even come up with good ideas! :-DD I love that Rigol doesn't listen to old farts who can't design any TME that doesn't look like a shoebox from $10 shoes off Walmart.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: snarkysparky on September 12, 2018, 03:16:25 pm
But the Siglent SDG1032X has 16k point sample length.

rigol DG800 says 8 Meg points.   

Have to go with Rigol based on that.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 12, 2018, 03:58:32 pm
DG800 and DG900 are entry level models not to compete with SDG2000X or 33522B.

They all have SiFi II/True Arb/TrueForm that is supposed to improve waveform fidelity and reduce jitter.
It would be interesting to compare their approaches to waveform interpolation and just the cleanliness of a sine wave on a spectrum analyzer. 

DG800 datasheet says 200 ps jitter or 5 ps jitter depending on the filter for arbitrary waveform. SDG2000X datasheet says 150 ps jitter, no additional filter. 33522B says 40 ps to 5 ps, depending on filter.
take a look at tis video, the unit is tested by oscilloscope and spectrum analyzer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mSV5CZRRD4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mSV5CZRRD4)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kleinstein on September 12, 2018, 04:18:03 pm
The case looks really odd. The form might help with cooling, but a would still prefer the classic square full metal box. At the usually low power passive cooling might still work in that form factor with sufficient vents.

For the noise I would prefer to have fan less cooling under normal conditions and a fan that sets in in a high temperature environment (e.g. hot rack, or high ambient).

The specs look not that bad.

For the square wave I wonder if they could offer a special square wave channel to provide just a square (maybe PWM) signal, up to higher frequencies. No need for ARB.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 12, 2018, 04:50:44 pm
"seven bit 240MHz function generator".. I think they mean seven digit...

Yes. This seems to be a growing trend in China. For some reason, they've adopted the word "bit" to mean "digit." I'm seeing it on more and more marketing materials and, when I asked one manufacturer about it, they said that "bit" is what "everyone" calls it. :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: xrunner on September 12, 2018, 05:05:44 pm
Yes. This seems to be a growing trend in China. For some reason, they've adopted the word "bit" to mean "digit." I'm seeing it on more and more marketing materials and, when I asked one manufacturer about it, they said that "bit" is what "everyone" calls it. :palm:

Well when we look at your forum name - of course you would notice this.  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 12, 2018, 05:08:22 pm
Yes. If I didn't notice, you'd be a bit disappointed. :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timgiles on September 12, 2018, 06:07:53 pm
Any news if Dave is getting hold of either for a tear down?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: blackdog on September 12, 2018, 06:59:45 pm
They must be kidding!!!!

WTF..., a real nice high performance puls, SiFi II Technology!
(http://www.bramcam.nl/Diversen/Rigol-PulsError-01.png)

Dubble loaded output? two 50 Ohm cables on one output whoehhahaha
Who makes these videos, someone who has just left school? a video blogger...

Kind regards,
Bram



Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 12, 2018, 07:11:02 pm
... I've seen it too. This, in a risetime range of a few nanoseconds, it simply silly.

A 50 Ohms power splitter or divider is absolutely neccessary for signal fidelity and freedom from cable reflections.

If you ask me, their scope and analyzer inputs are not perfect 50Ohms, either.

All the SiFi inside the instrument does not help against incompetent people sitting in front of it.  :palm:

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on September 13, 2018, 05:47:59 am
What i want to know is how good the signals look when you ask it to reproduce a weird frequency square wave such as 10.16456 MHz.

Does it make it jitter all over the place like most cheap arb signal generators?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 13, 2018, 06:59:31 am
What i want to know is how good the signals look when you ask it to reproduce a weird frequency square wave such as 10.16456 MHz.

Does it make it jitter all over the place like most cheap arb signal generators?
We get the units begin of next week then I will do some test using both RIGOL MSO/DS7000 and R&S RTM3000 and post the results.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: pilotchup on September 13, 2018, 07:18:04 am
I don't understand the DG900 series. It appears to be pretty much inferior across the board when compared to Siglent SDG2000x series, a piece of gear that has been in the market for years? Both in price and specs. Especially when you consider the 2000x ability to be "unlocked" to the high end model.
I literally JUST bought a SDG2000x (almost went for the 6000x..) days ago, and after seeing this new Rigol device today.. I am really pretty confident in my decision to stay with Siglent.
I'm surprised Rigol isn't trying to be more competitive with a new product like this, either in specs or price, in respect to their MAIN competition, Siglent.

The look of the product does not bother me at all, I appreciate their attempt at styling because it at least makes sense - it was mostly made to allow a zero fan set up. They just tried to make it a bit more spiffy looking after they got the functional style set for having no fan and being stacked with other gear. At least they didn't make it as atrocious as their new 7000 series scope buttons/style.

The one thing I do not like, after watching that video above, is how the UI seems to work. Seems very bulky and annoying to actually use compared to other vendors. I appreciate Siglent's method of allowing usage using buttons or touch on their gens.

I don't know, seems like this one is a big let down for a company like Rigol. It's pretty crazy to say that, since thinking about the past this is an AMAZING amount of specs for the price.. but when you have Siglent out there now doing really well, it's hard to accept this as "good job Rigol". Oh well, I'm excited for a review & teardown nonetheless. Cheers!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on September 13, 2018, 07:22:03 am

We get the units begin of next week then I will do some test using both RIGOL MSO/DS7000 and R&S RTM3000 and post the results.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

Hopefully one of the test gear vendors also gets to loan one to Dave (Don't think Rigol wants to work directly with him).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 13, 2018, 07:24:40 am

We get the units begin of next week then I will do some test using both RIGOL MSO/DS7000 and R&S RTM3000 and post the results.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

Hopefully one of the test gear vendors also gets to loan one to Dave (Don't think Rigol wants to work directly with him).
:-+ don't kill me if I do mistake on the video  :phew:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timgiles on September 13, 2018, 07:46:56 am

We get the units begin of next week then I will do some test using both RIGOL MSO/DS7000 and R&S RTM3000 and post the results.

Awesome, looking forward to it.

Hopefully one of the test gear vendors also gets to loan one to Dave (Don't think Rigol wants to work directly with him).

Why dont Rigol want to play ball with Dave?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rf-loop on September 13, 2018, 10:06:10 am
What i want to know is how good the signals look when you ask it to reproduce a weird frequency square wave such as 10.16456 MHz.

Does it make it jitter all over the place like most cheap arb signal generators?

For reference Cheap Siglent SDG1032X
Square.
Cycle to Cycle jitter. Freq 10.16456MHz
(note, oscilloscope SDS1104X-Emod and SDG both run independently with they own internal reference and this sum jitters and drifts also included and oscilloscope itself trigger jitter)

Perhaps we later see how this Rigol performs.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 13, 2018, 12:40:28 pm
Oh sexy. I'm going to grab a DG832 when they actually become available here.

35MHz dual channel for less than my DG1022Z cost. Can't moan at that. Also solves the one thing that pisses me off about the DG1022Z; the noise!

Edit: Looks like arse but to quote my father "who looks at the mantelpiece while you're poking the fire"
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Bassman59 on September 13, 2018, 05:08:28 pm
Oh sexy. I'm going to grab a DG832 when they actually become available here.

DG822 is in stock here in the colonies ... I am trying to justify the purchase.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 13, 2018, 06:28:28 pm
You’re closer to the source than we are here :)

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Synthtech on September 13, 2018, 07:47:34 pm
Hats off to Rigol for the innovative case, one less fan running in the room is definitely a very good thing even if that requires a radical looking case. It might look ugly but at least it isn’t as ugly to look at as that wierd mismatched 3 colour logo plate that Siglent sticks on the front of everything.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 13, 2018, 08:11:35 pm
If you want a Siglent without an ugly logo you can pay through the nose and get an RS Pro branded one  :palm:

Ok dug further into this now I have some time. I think my major concern with the DG832 is the touch interface. The current DG1022Z I have muscle memory for. Sure the screen is smaller but it has a metric fuck ton more buttons on it. I may futz an entry and blow up a DUT one day with a touch screen.

Image for comparison:

(https://i.imgur.com/TPHvC7M.png)

On DG1022Z, to set say 7030 KHz, you press:
Code: [Select]
[freq soft] [7] [0] [3] [0] [KHz soft]
Dg832 you:
Code: [Select]
[smudge] [squark] [fum] [bib] [flib] [nark] [scrark]
Also the DG1022Z you could clearly beat Hulk to death with it in about 2 minutes flat and it wouldn't even have a dent. DG832 looks like an ebay 69 quid jobby in size and quality.

I might skip this actually.

Edit: recon occuring:

(https://i.imgur.com/OiGjrkD.png)

Hey Siglent if you're listening, please don't add a touch interface to your stuff. I'll buy one when my DG1022Z drops dead but only if it has buttons :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 13, 2018, 08:31:31 pm
Edit: recon occuring:

(https://i.imgur.com/OiGjrkD.png)

Hey Siglent if you're listening, please don't add a touch interface to your stuff.
Already in some existing and 'to come' models.
WS3000/SDS3000    < resistive and apparently not nice.

Capacitive:
SDG2000X models    < rarely use touch but it seems just fine.
SDG6000X models    < should be equivalent to 2000X models
SVA1015X                < got one and it's touch is excellent !
Coming
SDS5000X

Any others don't jump to mind.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 13, 2018, 08:40:40 pm
Just from the looks its clear that the DG1022Z is built like a rock compared to the new all-plastic models.

I dont drop my stuff so often, but a full metal jacket has other advantages: resistance to EMI.
I am curious if RIGOL also made compromises here. Has somebody tried this yet ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 13, 2018, 08:47:24 pm
Edit: recon occuring:

(https://i.imgur.com/OiGjrkD.png)

Hey Siglent if you're listening, please don't add a touch interface to your stuff.
Already in some existing and 'to come' models.
WS3000/SDS3000    < resistive and apparently not nice.

Capacitive:
SDG2000X models    < rarely use touch but it seems just fine.
SDG6000X models    < should be equivalent to 2000X models
SVA1015X                < got one and it's touch is excellent !
Coming
SDS5000X

Any others don't jump to mind.

Joy. Why? Honestly.

I don't get it. It's just bad. People need to stop coming up with this shit. I'll explain why:

1. Your hand obscures half the interface when you're using it.
2. There is no haptic feedback.
3. Everything relies on precise absolute positioning of your hands. They have to iterate the position via visual feedback. Fingers are pretty good little sensors once you get close but there's nothing to feel.
4. It's physically more demanding and tiring than physical controls.
5. The interface elements aren't standardised so every device is a complete context switch.
6. The panels are fragile.

But fuck me, those Chinese capacitive displays lifted off no brand smartphone lines will save us so many dollars on buttons and we can say "look everybody it's got a touch screen".

Edit: this is even a million times worse than the greatest fad ever; touch screen laptops. When you have a touch screen scope for example, the screen is even higher up so when your arms get tired it's even more painful to use it with the above constraints.

Just from the looks its clear that the DG1022Z is built like a rock compared to the new all-plastic models.

I dont drop my stuff so often, but a full metal jacket has other advantages: resistance to EMI.
I am curious if RIGOL also made compromises here. Has somebody tried this yet ?

You probably don't drop it as often you're right but a lot of equipment in labs is shared and moved around regularly. That thing has zero protection on it at all from corner knocks. I reckon you could drop a 1022Z front on and it'd survive. If you look at the old HP 546xx series scopes, one of the design flaws that I have actually experienced is the BNCs stick out of the front and the entire mechanical load is on the motherboard. One knock and it'll crack the board. No secondary protection on those either. I imagine this is vulnerable too. Butt side of a DG1022Z for reference - it's 90% protection

(https://i.imgur.com/IGitTrT.jpg)

Good point there. I'm worried about emissions with this. If I put my DG1022Z next to an HF transceiver I can't hear a thing and that is literally perfect. If I did the same with my old plastic cased TG220 function generator you could hear it strongly in the receiver. The transceiver is very heavily shielded as well (cast aluminium chassis, steel panels).

Hmm. I smell a turd I think.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Synthtech on September 13, 2018, 08:57:09 pm
I have to agree about touch screens.  I know that they have so many amazing advantages but I bypassed the new Keithley 6 1/2 digit multimeter because of it. I really enjoy using my old Agilent 34401A, it’s as stable as a church pew and I recently replaced the VFD display and the part cost me $70.00. based on how so many of the older HP 34401A’s are still performing it’s not impossible that that I will still be using it in 10-20 years time.

I am not sure how I would fare if in 10 years I went to look for a replacement touch screen for the Keithley. Longevity counts for me, there’s enough scrap electronics in the world as it is.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 13, 2018, 08:59:54 pm
At the risk of being cursed as too conservative, I prefer buttons to touchscreens as well.
I do have a lot of touchy instruments, though (see profile).
 
Reasons are:

- I hate fingerprints on my screens
- typing or wheeling is faster and has less entry errors than guestures due to haptic feedback
- touchscreens dont last forever. They get numb over the years, especially when used frequently.
  No problem for short-lived junk, but not smart for expensive lab stuff that is supposed to last for decades.

IMHO, touchscreens are a lot cheaper to make and more flexible than a classic panel, agreed.
So if your product is as mature as a green banana you will love a touchscreen because all is done by software
and can be changed weekly if needed.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 14, 2018, 12:58:20 am
Touchscreens can be useful for some things, but replacing buttons and knobs isn't one of them. Even if you want to have a flexible interface, that's already been done successfully with a combination of screen space (for labels) and physical buttons.

As with many wank (as Dave might put it) features, they'll go to an extreme before (hopefully) finding a reasonable balance.

I really enjoy using my old Agilent 34401A, it’s as stable as a church pew and I recently replaced the VFD display and the part cost me $70.00. based on how so many of the older HP 34401A’s are still performing it’s not impossible that that I will still be using it in 10-20 years time.

I am not sure how I would fare if in 10 years I went to look for a replacement touch screen for the Keithley. Longevity counts for me, there’s enough scrap electronics in the world as it is.

There's been a successful project replacing the 34401A VFD with an OLED display (a TFT LCD shouldn't be much different). Something similar could probably be done for Keithley ones as well.

If all else fails, those meters can also be used remotely. So, they'll be useful until they're dead, regardless how long the displays last.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on September 14, 2018, 05:20:06 am
Touchscreens are a good idea and capacitive ones have no moving parts so should be very reliable. But they are NOT a replacement for buttons!

A touchscreen is useful as a complement to the existing buttons. Would you want the horizontal scale control on your scope on the touchscreen? Hell no! But you could probably do something useful with cursors where you just tap two points and it puts a set of cursors on those spots (While still having a cursor button where the soft knob moves them). Or you might want to enter in a frequency of 2.048 MHz into the built in signal gen. Sure you can do it with the knob but that takes a bit since scopes generally don't have a numeric keypad, but if you tap the setting you could have a big touchscreen keypad pop up where you type it in and it disappears once done.

I do have a touchscreen scope (MSO9000) but the UI requires you to do most stuff on the screen rather than with buttons. It does some things right but not everything. And if im going to use the scope for some time i just use a mouse with it instead as its faster and easier than touch.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 14, 2018, 07:55:42 am
Edit: recon occuring:

(https://i.imgur.com/OiGjrkD.png)

Hey Siglent if you're listening, please don't add a touch interface to your stuff.
Already in some existing and 'to come' models.
WS3000/SDS3000    < resistive and apparently not nice.

Capacitive:
SDG2000X models    < rarely use touch but it seems just fine.
SDG6000X models    < should be equivalent to 2000X models
SVA1015X                < got one and it's touch is excellent !
Coming
SDS5000X

Any others don't jump to mind.

Joy. Why? Honestly.

I don't get it. It's just bad. People need to stop coming up with this shit. I'll explain why:

1. Your hand obscures half the interface when you're using it.
2. There is no haptic feedback.
3. Everything relies on precise absolute positioning of your hands. They have to iterate the position via visual feedback. Fingers are pretty good little sensors once you get close but there's nothing to feel.
4. It's physically more demanding and tiring than physical controls.
5. The interface elements aren't standardised so every device is a complete context switch.
6. The panels are fragile.

But fuck me, those Chinese capacitive displays lifted off no brand smartphone lines will save us so many dollars on buttons and we can say "look everybody it's got a touch screen".
You're really showing your age now and I'm a good bit older than you.  :P

A few years back I'd have thought similar but every bit of equipment a has different UI requirement like WTF would you want a 'pinch to zoom' on an AWG for instance.
Placement of the touch screen elements has everything to do with usability and if they're aligned with physical buttons the choice is yours of which to use. For some elements a touch screen is faster and less effort, quite contrary to your misguided beliefs. Other elements of course require user feedback such as indented encoders  and numerical keypads and it's unlikely they'll be replaced anytime soon with touch controls especially in instruments with small displays and/or complex multi-menued UI's.
You comment on the users hand obscuring the display, well yes but in some in some implementations a quick access panel is available to place (drag drop) anywhere that suits.
Like you I've never been a great fan of touch displays but the more I get to use instruments that have them the more I understand their advantages with good implementation.

Panels fragile ? BS, double BS !  :bullshit:

You really need get out more !  :P

Just to wind some of ya's up some more, in not too many years I predict there will be instrument ranges from many manufacturers only available with touch displays and also ranges of instruments with physical controls too but at an additional cost.
Such is the pace of change in the last few decades.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 14, 2018, 08:44:45 am
Sorry for the length of this.

You're really showing your age now and I'm a good bit older than you.  :P

It's not age related this. It's actually down to real quantifiable experience.

One of the products I was wholly in charge of in the early 00's was a virtual interface platform that allowed people to prototype hardware and software based interfaces and wire them to the underlying electronics. This consisted of a COTS PC and various standard PCI digital interface cards and numerous Matrox cards connected to physical controls and virtual displays. There was a whole load of VC++ I am not proud of under there :D ... The result was your avionics module could be tried in situ in simulator platforms and the controls could be moved around and look for HCI related problems with the end users (pilots, military personel etc). This spanned avionics, ground support systems, production line controls, everything.

One of the major findings from this platform was that the important thing is user preference and dividing the control surface into two groups of functions: primary and secondary. Primary functions are things that are critical to the operation of the product. Secondary functions are not so important and are used occasionally.

We found that primary functions MUST be physical tactile controls with haptic feedback and must be comfortable or fatigue builds up over time leading to errors, physical pain and generally low opinion of the products. I've even seen it where people get shoulder problems after having to look around the side of something that their hand is obscuring a hundred times a day. Even little things like this only come from observing the user for days at a time and doing several hardware prototype revisions (which was expensive and why I built the above).

Secondary functions it really doesn't matter as they are used so infrequently. Stick it in a menu somewhere!

Literally everything you have on a standard analogue scope, DMM, signal generator should still be primary physical controls on every piece of test gear unconditionally.

This comes from watching hundreds of people doing real work with hardware for 3 years using this software and building interfaces. This is quantifiable and there's a ton of research out there which backs this up. Go and have a look around.

This is why the TDS210/220, while not having an amazing spec sheet, is such a nice bit of kit to use. It has that functionality clearly divided and clearly implemented. The interface is literally "right".

A few years back I'd have thought similar but every bit of equipment a has different UI requirement like WTF would you want a 'pinch to zoom' on an AWG for instance.
Placement of the touch screen elements has everything to do with usability and if they're aligned with physical buttons the choice is yours of which to use. For some elements a touch screen is faster and less effort, quite contrary to your misguided beliefs. Other elements of course require user feedback such as indented encoders  and numerical keypads and it's unlikely they'll be replaced anytime soon with touch controls especially in instruments with small displays and/or complex multi-menued UI's.
You comment on the users hand obscuring the display, well yes but in some in some implementations a quick access panel is available to place (drag drop) anywhere that suits.
Like you I've never been a great fan of touch displays but the more I get to use instruments that have them the more I understand their advantages with good implementation.

I think I've covered the above already.

I will say that if you look at the quantifiable disaster that is metro / UWP on Windows platforms over the last few years, you will see that it has started to move away from the touch focus to a keyboard and mouse focus again. Because it literally didn't work in the real world. It's tough to admit this. People should learn from other people's mistakes. win32 was not a mistake. UWP is.

Panels fragile ? BS, double BS !  :bullshit:

You really need get out more !  :P

I think I did :)

They are incredibly fragile. If they weren't there wouldn't be at least 100 phone repair shops within a mile of me. And the phones are pretty much the best bits of engineering out there. They have had the highest overall investment in technology and reliability over the last decade. But they still get broken because you don't get to choose the hands in which they are placed.

Same goes for test gear which is pretty much ritually abused. Back when I was at university, someone popped a DMM screen with a flying test lead for example. And that had a layer of Fluke around it. And working for the test gear department of a large company for a bit, I actually saw all the creative ways people fucked up their kit.

Just to wind some of ya's up some more, in not too many years I predict there will be instrument ranges from many manufacturers only available with touch displays and also ranges of instruments with physical controls too but at an additional cost.
Such is the pace of change in the last few decades.

 :popcorn:

This is a side effect known as the feature bell curve. What we have is roughly the pinnacle of feature completeness at the moment. We have decent quality reliable feature load, we have devices which are completely functional and reliable and we have low cost manufacturing. Unfortunately when we get into this state, there is a latent desire to innovate because of fear from other manufacturers innovating first. This results in either two outcomes:

1. Firstly we have negative innovation. Apple are good at this. They start removing things people use and need to build the ultimate clean interface and system. This harms the user by removing established patterns.
2. Secondly we have negative innovation again. This is where established paradigms are broken, simply for the sake of labeling something as innovation.

This is a type 2 failure mode. Thus people are so afraid to do minor revisions of their products and only reinvent them every few years due to the pressure from above and the marketing teams. Also there is a pressure to cut costs. If you tick both boxes you think you have won.

Yaesu are a fine example of sticking a finger up to this. They took the FT-817 platform which is nigh on 20 years old now and released the FT-818. People nearly shit a brick because it was literally almost exactly the same as the FT-817. 20 years of progress?!?!?! What is this?!?!?!? Why should you buy this?!?!?  That was the sentiment. Well it turns out you shouldn't if you have an FT-817. This is shocking to the masses apparently who have been programmed with itchy upgrade dick syndrome (fear of obsolescence) and the manufacturers desire to sell new products all the time to the same people.  What did they do with the FT-818? Well they re-engineered the guts so that Yaesu could provide the same functionality with newer parts. That was it.  The interface for it works. Didn't need changing. You can drive it with your eyes shut.

Same with HP / Agilent / Keysight. Over the last 25 years some of their products haven't changed, like the E36xx platform and the 34401A for example. When you look at their newer lines, taking the E36312A for example, there are still physical controls. Even the high end InfiniVision 6000 scopes with the touch screen still have ALL of the primary controls on the panel with no channel sharing for example. They paid for a user study.

This is simply the bottom end of the market throwing cost cutting fad crap out to outdo each other and not even bothering to do a user study.

I'll throw another "right" user interface on the table:

(https://i.imgur.com/1bRpyUP.jpg)

I'd just like to say that the DG1022Z interface isn't great, especially if you compare to the above, but the thing is an order of magnitude better than the newer touch devices for sure.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: blackdog on September 14, 2018, 09:27:05 am
Hi tautech,

The fact that it is "modern" to have a touch control does not mean that this is a good interface for the device to which it is applied.
Almost everything in this world is driven by economics, and I can tell you, that's not a good thing, and I think you are intelligent enough to understand what I mean.

Also the Rigol generator is a good example that this is driven by the Marketers, Marketers are a really bad religion... They will demolish this world just by their drive to profit maximization.
Siglent is not different, there are so many companies that take on the bad decisions from their competitors to get 0.1% more profit in the short term...

Lets remove all the buttons! Easy, look how modern we are, look at al the option we put in it! look at al the nice colors we use, bullshit housing,
and you cant put anything on top of it and that for only for 324$!!!

And now some remarks on my Siglent SDG2042 generator.   :box:
It has a touch screen, i almost never use it, why you may ask? (you will problely think it's a nother old fart) yes i am!

I will explain it to you, when I am measuring an object I would like to keep my brain on the object,
the attention should not be drawn away by a too small screen where I have to press exactly on a position to set e.g. the output voltage, its a hell to do that....

The modern scoops and spectrum analyser with their large screens are easier to operate with a touch screen than the standard size housing such as the Siglent SDG 2042, HP 34401A, Fluke 8840A etc.

Another big mistake made by many manufacturers, on LAB power supplies is this,
I want to have a separate button for the voltage and a separate button for the current setting.
For function generators I want to have a separate button for the output level.
It always takes a lot of time to switch to modern generators to switch from frequency settings to output voltage settings and back again.

It is clear to me that the people who determine which buttons are placed on a function generator, take very few measurements themselves...

The Siglent good stuf!
I can also tell you that I am very happy with the Siglent SDG 2042, why? it is not the touch screen witch make's me cry...
This generator delivers the best square wave or pulse if you stay below 1MHz., now happy tears  :-DD
If the frequency is exactly 1MHz then the block/pulse response is not so perfect but still very good, at exactly 1MHz or higher something is switched in the generator to make the perfection go away.
It is better in this, than my HAMEG HMF2525 en my Rigol DG4162 generators.

Because of these good features of the SDG 2042 generator, it is regularly used by me for testing broadband amplifiers or adjusting scope probes.
And i can even use it to make reasonable distortion measurements on audio equipment with its lower than 0.01% distortion (< 0.007% measured with my Audio Presision measuringSet)
So its not all bad...  ;)

Kind regards,
Bram
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 14, 2018, 10:10:36 am
@ blackdog
I don't disagree with anything you've said and it's good to get the opinions out into the open and invite/incite discussion. Of course there will be extremes of views both for and against ............anything.

WRT touch interfaces, they are still in their youth but look how far they have come in just a couple of decades when not long before that, encoders surfaced to replace pots and/or ganged switches when most thought they would be with us for all time. These touch interfaces are becoming very reliable as there no membranes, buttons or encoders to wear or fail. We see them everywhere, even the parking meter where I went to demo scopes the other day had no buttons, only credit card slot and a touch screen.  :o

It's called progress and not all like it or embrace it, that I very much understand.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 14, 2018, 10:15:56 am
Touchscreens are a useful and welcome addition to testgear functionality, but it's an augmentation,  not a replacement,.Things like text entry, annotation, selecting from a long menu and dragging waveforms are genuinely useful enhancements, but gestures like pinch-zooming simply don't work on vertically oriented screens, because fingernails and joint geometry

One issue I've noticed  is that adding a fancy GUI has slowed down the response to hard buttons to near-unusability -e.g. on the  R&S RTB/RTM, the conventional double-presss on a channel button to turn it on/off is rendered essentially nonfunctional because of the excessive time taken to animate the opening the menu.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 14, 2018, 10:18:40 am
IMO the arguments for/against touch controls are somewhat different for measuring instruments vs. things like siggens and PSUs.
With a measuring instrument you are always going to be looking at the screen while adjusting, but for generators you may well be looking elsewhere, like looking at another instrument or checking for smoke.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: netdudeuk on September 14, 2018, 10:18:54 am
I notice that the channel and memory upgrades are via licenses as with some of the other devices.  I wonder how long it will be before there's an equivalent riglol fix for them.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 14, 2018, 10:34:12 am
I notice that the channel and memory upgrades are via licenses as with some of the other devices.  I wonder how long it will be before there's an equivalent riglol fix for them.

A couple of hours after the right person gets their hands on them :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on September 14, 2018, 10:12:49 pm
I'll throw another "right" user interface on the table:

(https://i.imgur.com/1bRpyUP.jpg)

I'd just like to say that the DG1022Z interface isn't great, especially if you compare to the above, but the thing is an order of magnitude better than the newer touch devices for sure.

DG1022Z interface is a huge improvement over that:
- multiple important on screen info shown at the same time, no need to scroll
- dedicated numerical keys
- dedicated channel output select
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 14, 2018, 10:25:28 pm
To note I wasn’t comparing the interface of the DG1022Z to the 33120A but the 33120A to the DG832.

The 33120A is single channel and none of the buttons are double press contextual like the DG1022Z which is rather annoying. Also with the DG1022Z setting the power reference impedance is a dick no less than about three menus down.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: MrW0lf on September 15, 2018, 07:45:43 am
You really need get out more !  :P

Do you mean citypersons gathering in coffee bar and touching eachothers screens :P Then ya... But if one actually gets out eg powersports, ice fishing or whatever that involves mud, blood or negative temperatures then all you want is rugged devices with hard to press buttons eg Garmin 78. And I do (sadly) have high end smartphone with huge touchscreen so I have something to align against.

Just to wind some of ya's up some more, in not too many years I predict there will be instrument ranges from many manufacturers only available with touch displays and also ranges of instruments with physical controls too but at an additional cost.
Such is the pace of change in the last few decades.

 :popcorn:

But you see if we talking about calm soothing lab environment its all been rendered obsolete in 1968 with public demonstration of computer mouse :o
Progress is not always linear. Now many high end scopes etc get touch interfaces all being stroked with passion in promo videos but afterwards they secretly attach mouse... ;)

So beware, sometimes with age you just succumb to social=media pressure. :popcorn:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Bassman59 on September 16, 2018, 06:22:01 pm
I’m not a kid any more, and like all of you I have an opinion about capacitive touch-screen displays. For example, in my other life as a live sound mix-person, touch screens have really taken over. And whether that’s good or bad is wholly in how the entire user interface is designed. For example, the new thing about mixing on an iPad as the only interface? It’s totally great for a bar system where it’s set and forget, and it’s a godsend for ringing out monitor wedges. But you can’t mix a show on it for a reason alluded to above. Someone mentioned adjusting the signal generator while watching the result on an oscilloscope, and that’s exactly it. I watch the lead singer with my finger on his channel fader. If I have to look down to find it on a flat screen, I’ve already missed the cue.

But for other things, the touch screen gives me what I need when I need it, like on the Soundcraft Vi series or DiGico consoles. Touch the channel, it all opens up, and the row of knobs lets me adjust something. And faders are always available.

Back to this signal generator. The touch screen is of course the latest cool thing, all the kids like touch screens, blah blah. But it is also a money-saver, or at least allows reallocating BOM cost to where it matters most. So, let me see, I can get a 14-bit generator for $300 with a lot of buttons, or I can get a 16-bit generator with fewer buttons and a touch screen for that $300.

I know what I prefer.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 21, 2018, 08:09:43 am
here are 2 nice pictures :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 21, 2018, 08:11:53 am
Can you crack one open so we can see the guts?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: blackdog on September 21, 2018, 08:39:01 am
Hi simone.pignatti,

Thaks for the pictures, but it is of far more importance how the puls responce is of these generators...
So 1KHZ, 100KHz, 1MHz, 10MHZ 50% duty cycles is ok for the first impression, this all at minimal edge time.
So, what about professional 50 Ohm coax cables, 50 Ohm in line therminators from MiniCircuits or a other good brand.
Whit a fast edge generator you wil see the difference between the 50 Ohm therminator in your scoop or a good 50 Ohm inline therminator.

Check the responce on different frequencys and different output levels, and yes... somtimes your mouth drops open when you see the difference in performance  ;)

If you are using a spectrum analyser, use also inline attenuators, minimal 20 db to be sure your generator sees a relative good 50 ohm load and don't overload your spectrum analyzer!
Most spectrum analysers are not a nice 50 Ohm input over a broad frequency range...

Just some tips, maybe you know this already, then i shut up  :-DD

Kind regards,
Bram
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on September 21, 2018, 08:44:17 am
And id like to see a jitter test.

Set the generator to a weird non round frequency square wave such as 10.123456 MHz. Trigger on one of the edges then move the time on the scope to the next rising and next falling edge.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: simone.pignatti on September 21, 2018, 08:56:51 am
And id like to see a jitter test.

Set the generator to a weird non round frequency square wave such as 10.123456 MHz. Trigger on one of the edges then move the time on the scope to the next rising and next falling edge.
do you mean something like this?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 21, 2018, 08:59:39 am
Provide a test unit and it will undergo the same "punishment (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg1835534/#msg1835534)" on my MDA as the SDG6000X...  :P
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on September 28, 2018, 07:04:15 pm
I’ve been looking into these generators and noticed a difference between the 800 and 900 series other than the maximum frequency, sampling rate, and memory depth (We’ll leave the color of the case and screen out of this). On the 800 series, 16-bit arb waveform files are truncated to 14-bit, whereas the 900 series reproduces the full 16 bits. That might matter to those looking for the best signal fidelity from their created (and in-built?) arb waveforms.  Of course I wonder if this is a hardware, or software, limitation.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: MT on September 29, 2018, 12:52:45 am
Case design is hilarious , i cant buy this even if i needed , want and i had the money! :scared:
Which one of the Transformers is it?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 29, 2018, 12:56:58 am
They now need to design a special coffee mug that fits on top of this.  >:D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 29, 2018, 09:29:18 am
Yes the case is pretty crap. Not quite as rubbish as my ADSL router though. I have yet to find a worse one than that. https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7560/ very MIB.  Rigol is probably misinterpreted Ridley Scott science fiction here.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 29, 2018, 09:45:42 pm
On the 800 series, 16-bit arb waveform files are truncated to 14-bit, whereas the 900 series reproduces the full 16 bits.

Wow, really? :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on September 29, 2018, 09:48:30 pm
Your router is the most aerodynamic model on the market. I boasts a Cw value of just below 0.2, and has been carfully optimized to minimize wind noises.  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on September 30, 2018, 12:21:34 am
On the 800 series, 16-bit arb waveform files are truncated to 14-bit, whereas the 900 series reproduces the full 16 bits.

Wow, really? :palm:

Check it out, from DG800 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). DG800 only uses 14 bits, and the higher 14 bits are used to represent voltage and the lower 2 bits are not used. Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFC.

From DG900 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFF.

 :-//
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on September 30, 2018, 12:31:44 am
Nice. The title should've been, "New Rigol up to 16-bit function generators." ;D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mr. Scram on September 30, 2018, 02:17:19 am
Bonus points for the mechanical power switch. Siglent, take note!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on September 30, 2018, 10:17:03 am
Bonus points for the mechanical power switch. Siglent, take note!
FYI
ALL Siglent AWG's have always had mechanical power switches !

Further:
In the Siglent AWG range, 1kX and old models, 800 and 1k series are 14 bit while SDG2kX and 6kX models are 16 bit.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mr. Scram on September 30, 2018, 10:42:28 am
FYI
ALL Siglent AWG's have always had mechanical power switches !

Further:
In the Siglent AWG range, 1kX and old models, 800 and 1k series are 14 bit while SDG2kX and 6kX models are 16 bit.
Who cares when the other devices come with soft touch buttons? You don't get brownie points for not messing up across the board.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on October 01, 2018, 05:46:07 am
But the trend of soft power buttons in test equipment is annoying.

There is little to no good reason why such gear would need to have a soft power button. They don't have remote controls to turn them on and they are not working on so much data that the OS could corrupt itself by forced power downs. RAM is cheap now days so simply run your OS from a ramdisk image while keeping only large static files in flash along with a settings file that gets written to in a safe way. Test equipment spends most of its life in the off state. You don't even use your scope for 10 hours a day on average even if you really use your scope a lot. Let alone use some more specialized bit of gear that you perhaps only power on a few times per year.

What makes things worse is that all of this gear uses switching supplies now. Okay they do waste less power than a oldschool transformer at low loads (When properly designed) so that lends them well to soft power off. But these things are also a lot more fragile. Mains power can have all sorts of surges happen and is common to get stuck by lightning. These surges can blow the primary side transistors in switching supplies pretty easily, but a big chunk of copper and iron doesn't really care as long as its less than the few kV of its insulation resistance. If you try pushing too much voltage into a transformer it simply saturates and draws a huge current while the output just rises a bit above normal. Of course it won't save you from a direct hit but i seen a lot of switching supplies blow up from lightning strikes while all transformered things in the same building kept working fine.

The only exception is instruments that have ovenised things in them. Often old gear had a small standby supply that is wired before the power switch to provide just a few watts of power to an ovenised crystal or something so that it drifts as little as possible. So i suppose if you have that then a soft power button is easy to do and saves you having an extra PSU.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on October 01, 2018, 09:30:34 am
But the trend of soft power buttons in test equipment is annoying.

There is little to no good reason why such gear would need to have a soft power button. They don't have remote controls to turn them on and they are not working on so much data that the OS could corrupt itself by forced power downs. RAM is cheap now days so simply run your OS from a ramdisk image while keeping only large static files in flash along with a settings file that gets written to in a safe way. Test equipment spends most of its life in the off state. You don't even use your scope for 10 hours a day on average even if you really use your scope a lot. Let alone use some more specialized bit of gear that you perhaps only power on a few times per year.

What makes things worse is that all of this gear uses switching supplies now. Okay they do waste less power than a oldschool transformer at low loads (When properly designed) so that lends them well to soft power off. But these things are also a lot more fragile. Mains power can have all sorts of surges happen and is common to get stuck by lightning. These surges can blow the primary side transistors in switching supplies pretty easily, but a big chunk of copper and iron doesn't really care as long as its less than the few kV of its insulation resistance. If you try pushing too much voltage into a transformer it simply saturates and draws a huge current while the output just rises a bit above normal. Of course it won't save you from a direct hit but i seen a lot of switching supplies blow up from lightning strikes while all transformered things in the same building kept working fine.

The only exception is instruments that have ovenised things in them. Often old gear had a small standby supply that is wired before the power switch to provide just a few watts of power to an ovenised crystal or something so that it drifts as little as possible. So i suppose if you have that then a soft power button is easy to do and saves you having an extra PSU.
There's a few things you overlook.

Some test gear has a hidden OS (often Windoze or Linux) that must be shutdown correctly so a soft OFF button lends itself well to these needs and fits well with SMPS supplies.
Much equipment is also more portable than those of yesteryear and again SMPS is preferable to save weight and cost rather than brute iron and copper.
Also, we've all seen enough years of SMPS to know their primary failure case is when hard switched rather than left powered for long periods.
And lastly, SMPS lends itself to international markets better than linear PSU's for multi-voltage and multi-frequency needs. At one time marine and aviation test equipment was somewhat specialized whereas today most equipment can handle these rather obscure mains supplies with ease.


Unlike the minuscule walwarts we all have for the likes of our phones etc, equipment with larger form factors do have the room to incorporate proper mains filtering that consists of adequately sized components, spark gaps, air gaps and common mode mains filters that make the modern SMPS quite robust. I've never replaced any in equipment I've supplied and can only vaguely remember one Siglent SMPS failing mentioned somewhere on this forum.
Luck I guess, but it seems not all other brands have shared this luck.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on October 01, 2018, 09:42:17 am
... another exception are larger instruments that need a regular Windows shutdown, like the Keysight S Scopes, VNAs and Spectrum Analyzers.
They have a "hard" power pushbutton, but a "soft" shutdown is performed.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tautech on October 01, 2018, 09:45:54 am
... another exception are larger instruments that need a regular Windows shutdown, like the Keysight S Scopes, VNAs and Spectrum Analyzers.
They have a "hard" power pushbutton, but a "soft" shutdown is performed.
Which of course indicates a PSU that's always ON when plugged in or rear switched. (PITA)
Be it linear or SMPS, smoothing caps still wear out as the years tick by.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on October 01, 2018, 10:01:51 am
I dont know if they do a "hard" shutdown after the "soft" one is completed.
They Keysight stuff (or Agilent, or HP) has a reputation to last for very long, so maybe they use a lot better caps than our Chinese friends from today (see Daves standard rant when tearing down stuff).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 01, 2018, 10:22:19 am
I dont know if they do a "hard" shutdown after the "soft" one is completed.
They Keysight stuff (or Agilent, or HP) has a reputation to last for very long, so maybe they use a lot better caps than our Chinese friends from today (see Daves standard rant when tearing down stuff).
A hard shutdown is simply cutting the power by means of a physical switch. That's what people like, a proper switch with zero power consumption and a non ambiguous function. What you describe sounds like a soft solution.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on October 01, 2018, 10:52:05 am
I did have the PSU in my Tek AWG2041 fail all of a sudden, one day it simply didn't turn on. Its a pretty big thing (Twice as large as a standard ATX PSU) and it had a transistor fail in the PFC that then also blew up the softstart circuit.

And yes a lot of gear now runs a OS back there, and you can indeed screw up the flash if you keep killing power to it as its running. What you simply have to do is move a unchanging golden filesystem image into RAM at boot and then run the OS from ram disk. If you kill the power the RAM is gone anyway so no worries if the filesystem is screwed up. For things you can't loose like the settings you just store that in flash with proper safety (backup copies, minimal writes, syncing changes). Perfectly doable for a multimeter or signal generator. At work we have a bunch of products that run full blown linux and its normal for them to be turned off by cutting power and 1000s of these units keep working for years in the field. All you have to do is keep it from writing to flash all willy nilly.

And yeah PC based scopes like the Keysight Infiniium ones are a different story, obviously you can't just kill Win 7 and running from ramdisk under a hypervisor is not practical for such a big bulky OS. On my particular MSO9000 the power button is simply the motherboards power switch so it works exactly like on a PC (And is pretty much just a PC with a scope board hanging off a PCIe port).

But i do suppose i have not seen many failures of switchmode PSUs on test equipment. I have a lot of test gear and i saw only 1 failure on my Tek. But i do remember switchmode PSU failures being very common in consumer crap (Probably the number 1 cause of failure even).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Bassman59 on October 02, 2018, 03:40:38 am
On the 800 series, 16-bit arb waveform files are truncated to 14-bit, whereas the 900 series reproduces the full 16 bits.

Wow, really? :palm:

Check it out, from DG800 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). DG800 only uses 14 bits, and the higher 14 bits are used to represent voltage and the lower 2 bits are not used. Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFC.

From DG900 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFF.

 :-//

I suppose I could RTFM, but does that apply to standard waveforms such as sine and square waves?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on October 02, 2018, 02:08:57 pm
On the 800 series, 16-bit arb waveform files are truncated to 14-bit, whereas the 900 series reproduces the full 16 bits.

Wow, really? :palm:

Check it out, from DG800 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). DG800 only uses 14 bits, and the higher 14 bits are used to represent voltage and the lower 2 bits are not used. Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFC.

From DG900 manual:

For the arbitrary waveform file, the voltage values corresponding to each waveform point are stored in binary data format. The voltage value at each point takes up 2 bytes (16 bits). Therefore, its format of the binary data is from 0x0000 to 0xFFFF.

 :-//

I suppose I could RTFM, but does that apply to standard waveforms such as sine and square waves?

I have to assume the "standard" waveforms are 16-bit, since the generator is marketed as 16-bit.  Also, it isn't clear to me whether the 14-bit truncation is just with loaded-in (created) arb files, or the in-built arb waveforms as well.  This info was only stated in the file management section of the manual.  I think it deserves a mention in the published specification.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on November 24, 2018, 07:12:06 pm
but the look is like a horror movie ...

What the RIGOL DG800 series needs is a special accessory:

A matching coffee cup that does not risk to fall over when put on top of the unit and spill the coffee thru all the cooling slits on top.
I have a modest proposal here how this could look like  :) Innovation or Nothing !  :) :)

Another effect is that the coffee will be kept warm by the heat generated within the generator.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on November 24, 2018, 09:10:50 pm
That's a great idea. My 33120A appears to have coffee stains on the back of it so this is definitely a desired feature  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: David Hess on November 25, 2018, 12:47:14 am
Cases are deliberately designed like that to prevent stacking anything on top when the device has power dissipation problems.  Less than 30 watts and they needed to do that?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mr. Scram on November 25, 2018, 12:55:58 am
Cases are deliberately designed like that to prevent stacking anything on top when the device has power dissipation problems.
The ridges seem intended to allow stacking, just while leaving a considerable vent.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: David Hess on November 25, 2018, 01:00:29 am
Cases are deliberately designed like that to prevent stacking anything on top when the device has power dissipation problems.

The ridges seem intended to allow stacking, just while leaving a considerable vent.

I had to find some other photographs to see that  It is still pretty extreme even to cool up to 30 watts passively.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on November 25, 2018, 01:15:35 am
Cases are deliberately designed like that to prevent stacking anything on top when the device has power dissipation problems.

The ridges seem intended to allow stacking, just while leaving a considerable vent.

I had to find some other photographs to see that  It is still pretty extreme even to cool up to 30 watts passively.

The intention is clear, only its not very practical. Its for people with indefinite desk space. If every instrument designer does this, we need labs several times as large.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: David Hess on November 25, 2018, 01:47:57 am
Even if passive cooling is not feasible, a low speed fan with a filter to keep the dust out will move enough air to make a huge difference, be silent, and last for decades.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on November 25, 2018, 02:08:08 am
Yeah, agreed. If the price for pure passive cooling is that all such test equipment must be arranged side by side and cannot be towered, the price is definitely too high. What a lot of manufacturers could also do is implement better fans with less noise. The extra cost is not that high, and the annoyance factor of noisy fans is significant.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mr. Scram on November 25, 2018, 02:36:43 am
Yeah, agreed. If the price for pure passive cooling is that all such test equipment must be arranged side by side and cannot be towered, the price is definitely too high. What a lot of manufacturers could also do is implement better fans with less noise. The extra cost is not that high, and the annoyance factor of noisy fans is significant.
Again, these should be stackable due to the fins providing a surface to put anything flat bottomed on. It seems to be the whole point of the design.

Besides, fanless signal generators are feasible. GW-Instek and others do it without much trouble in regular cases. Fans are a weak point and a nuisance, so fanless designs seem preferable.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: David Hess on November 25, 2018, 02:54:55 am
Besides, fanless signal generators are feasible. GW-Instek and others do it without much trouble in regular cases. Fans are a weak point and a nuisance, so fanless designs seem preferable.

Usually fans are a weak point and nuisance but at low powers, below 100 watts, and where passive cooling is marginal, they can be used without any compromises.  It takes very little airflow to make a huge difference.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on March 23, 2019, 08:28:24 pm
Has anyone got a chance to test these function generators, measure pulse jitter or noise spectrum?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on March 23, 2019, 08:31:44 pm
Specs are shit compared to the old ones so I skipped buying one recently.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on March 24, 2019, 04:17:02 pm
The problem with Siglent SDG2000X series is that it has only one Aux In/Out BNC, whereas a proper generator should have Sync, Modulation, Trigger or even more BNCs for each channel. DG800/900 is a little better, with two BNCs, one for each channel. Keysight 33500 series has three auxiliary BNCs.

And what is it with these generators including a counter? I understand its easy to implement a crappy counter, but why waste a BNC for it? Except for the most basic models, I don't imagine it would be a selling point. Better to use that BNC as a trigger or another function generator control.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on March 24, 2019, 06:35:11 pm
The problem with Siglent SDG2000X series is that it has only one Aux In/Out BNC, whereas a proper generator should have Sync, Modulation, Trigger or even more BNCs for each channel. DG800/900 is a little better, with two BNCs, one for each channel. Keysight 33500 series has three auxiliary BNCs.

And what is it with these generators including a counter? I understand its easy to implement a crappy counter, but why waste a BNC for it? Except for the most basic models, I don't imagine it would be a selling point. Better to use that BNC as a trigger or another function generator control.

That was almost exactly my comment (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg1837019/#msg1837019) on the AUX capabilities of the SDG6000X. Considering this is Siglent's "top of the line" generator, it's rather poorly equipped. The Rigol DG4000 series offers much more regarding these additional functions though it's got other shortcomings. A merger of several of these generators would probably be what we're looking for...  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on March 24, 2019, 08:11:48 pm
I got a DG812 a week ago. So far I am very happy with it. :)

The UI needs a bit getting used to, especially accessing the deeper menus for trigger sync etc. - mainly because using a touch screen on test gear is somewhat counter-intuitive for me.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 13, 2019, 08:28:49 pm
Let's spice things up a bit!

Maybe they don't look so ugly after alll...     :popcorn:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on May 13, 2019, 08:56:54 pm
Looks like an Android phone screen as sold in an Indian tech market in 2011  :-DD

Only joking. I'm still not giving up my DG1022Z for one.

The crack is however impressive if it actually kicks out 100MHz.

What does the attenuator go down to when you set it to 50 ohms impedance?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 13, 2019, 09:07:13 pm
The crack is however impressive if it actually kicks out 100MHz.

What does the attenuator go down to when you set it to 50 ohms impedance?

No "crack". It's a feature.

Can't do that test right now. But stay tuned...   ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 13, 2019, 09:12:42 pm
Let's spice things up a bit!

Maybe they don't look so ugly after alll...     :popcorn:

Nice work, so DG811 may be able to be upgraded to DG992 as well?
Will definitely buy one if that is the case.  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 13, 2019, 09:25:14 pm
Nice work, so DG811 may be able to be upgraded to DG992 as well?

 ::)

Edit: I didn't meant to be disrespectful. I looked at the emoji just by its graphical look: "Hmmmm, let me see..."
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 13, 2019, 09:34:27 pm
::)

The specs between DG811 to DG832 appear to be the same (datasheet quotes 100MHz bandwidth), so the cap is presumably done in software.

edit: :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 13, 2019, 10:11:03 pm
Let's spice things up a bit!

Maybe they don't look so ugly after alll...     :popcorn:

Still ugly on the outside, but you make them much nicer on the inside. :-+

No "crack". It's a feature.

Yes, we like features! I actually wasn't expecting the 8xx series to be able to do 250 Msps. It's good to know that "it's in there."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J87QekxQVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J87QekxQVI)

I foresee a sudden spike in 811 sales. >:D

And maybe cans of black paint. ^-^
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 14, 2019, 04:48:16 pm
Sooo. Would you mind elaborating on how you got DG992 firmware on the 832? @tv84
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 14, 2019, 05:09:11 pm
I'm sure elaboration will come in good time. Perhaps a thread for it, too. ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 15, 2019, 09:08:52 am
As soon as I have a DG811 test, I'll post the method. The FW is the one that comes with the SG.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Sighound36 on May 15, 2019, 04:58:09 pm
Hi Tv84

I suspect your latest endevours will work with the DG822 as well

Also many thanks for your work with the MSO 5000 to  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 15, 2019, 08:20:30 pm
As soon as I have a DG811 test, I'll post the method. The FW is the one that comes with the SG.

Thank you, I've ordered DG811 so will check back when it arrives if you have not tested it already.

Another thing I noticed is DG800/DG900 both do not come with ethernet as standard, they require a $60 USB to ethernet adapter. Thats not bad, but the adapter looks to be the same as you can get on ebay for $5. We can either open that adapter or test some different chipsets to see what works (chipset might be referenced in the firmware somewhere?).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Berni on May 16, 2019, 05:08:10 am
Well at least they give you an option of an USB Ethernet adapter.

Id guess just check what are the best supported USB network card chipsets in the older Linux kernels and try plugging one of those in, id guess it works with more than just one special "the chosen one" chipset

Oh and careful with cheap chinese USB to Ethernet converters. I seen some pretty dodgy stuff inside of them like completely omitting the isolation transformer or terrible performance because the chip inside is marketed as "USB 2.0 compatible" but its actually a USB 1.1 Full Speed device limiting you to about 10% of full 100Mbit link speed.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on May 16, 2019, 04:44:35 pm
My DG952 works fine with a cheap USB 3.0 Gigabit LAN dongle.
One reason I purchased a 900 series instead of the 800 series is the difference in the arb bit depth.  Both series have 16-bit main function generation, but the 800 series only has 14-bit arbitrary output.  Loaded in 16-bit arb files just get the lowest two bits truncated.  I also was attracted to the additional arb memory of the 900 series which allows for lengthy sequences of low distortion audio tests.
I’ve had my unit for several months, and have found it easy to learn.  I almost never use the touch screen, since the main knob plus arrow keys can access all of the screen icons.
And, I don’t give a crap about what the case looks like.  It’s dead silent, and performs very well for my applications. :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 16, 2019, 06:08:15 pm
Can you post some performance data, like a noise spectrum or time jitter measurements?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kodovo on May 16, 2019, 07:13:24 pm
One reason I purchased a 900 series instead of the 800 series is the difference in the arb bit depth.  Both series have 16-bit main function generation, but the 800 series only has 14-bit arbitrary output.  Loaded in 16-bit arb files just get the lowest two bits truncated.

Is that really true?  I asked clarification for the User's Guide page 2-74 from Batronix last November, and Jan-Steffen Schwiemann answered:

  "we are sorry for the late reply.
    But we have finally gotten an answer from Rigol.

    For the DG800 series it is definitely 16bit resolution.
    Looks like they took the description directly from one of their other generators and forgot to correct this part."

Has anybody checked if those last bits really get truncated or not?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 17, 2019, 02:49:11 am
Rigol's data sheet for the 900 series also has errors in the maximum carrier frequency in burst mode. Unless there's something wrong with the generators, the max frequency in burst mode should match the max frequency of the generator. However, the data sheet shows them as 5 MHz less than the corresponding 800 series. It looks like someone changed the least significant digit from 5 to 0, but forgot to change the other digits.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 17, 2019, 11:36:17 am
So, if you convert your 8xx to 9xx you should have the 16-bits.  But, somebody will have to really test it.

I am willing to test! :)

DG812 is what I have here. What other per-requisites are there?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kodovo on May 17, 2019, 12:10:26 pm
We now have a discrepancy between what Rigol says (according to Batronix), and what is actually printed in the Manual.  So, I'd like to see whether the official firmware has 14 or 16 bits for arb. wave forms.  If you could produce an arb. form with, say, values 0x4000, 0x4001, 0x4002, 0x4003, and 0x4004, and check with a scope whether there are five different voltage levels or just two.  I think that should close the case.

Screenshot would be nice!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 17, 2019, 01:41:14 pm
We now have a discrepancy between what Rigol says (according to Batronix), and what is actually printed in the Manual.  So, I'd like to see whether the official firmware has 14 or 16 bits for arb. wave forms.  If you could produce an arb. form with, say, values 0x4000, 0x4001, 0x4002, 0x4003, and 0x4004, and check with a scope whether there are five different voltage levels or just two.  I think that should close the case.

Screenshot would be nice!

I did the test. Here is the result. This is the display of my DG811:
(https://i.imgur.com/ADaPbOF.jpg)

This is the measurement with my MSO5000:
(https://i.imgur.com/dTFEKOy.png)

See test2_1416.RAF (inside attached ZIP) for ARB file. I repeated the 0x4000 ... several times for better visualization.

Seems to be 16bit. No truncation.

Best regards
timber
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kodovo on May 17, 2019, 06:25:03 pm
Great, timber23, thank you!    How stupid from Rigol: the mistake in the User's Guide has certainly affected on the sales.  At least I have postponed the purchase until now.  But not anymore, thank you :)   Just waiting for the details of tv84 before deciding for the model.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 17, 2019, 06:48:17 pm
What does the attenuator go down to when you set it to 50 ohms impedance?

Does anybody know how to measure this?

Strangely the measurement doesn't change if I change from HighZ to 50 ohm impedance.

(https://i.imgur.com/bvSz2xu.png)

The red curve is BNC direct connected to scope. Doesn't matter if I select HighZ or 50 ohm impedance. The yellow trace is BNC connected to BNC-T-adapter with 50 ohm termination. As you can see, the 20Vpp is divided by 2, maybe because of a voltage divider. For my MSO5000, I cannot change input impedance. The button is grayed out and it says 1 M ohm.

Any suggesstions why there is no difference between HighZ and 50 ohm on DG800? What am I doing wrong?

Best regards
timber23
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on May 17, 2019, 07:34:36 pm
I was just interested in what the minimum input value was.

I suspect this is a UI issue. Impedance has to match at each end to be accurate.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 17, 2019, 08:52:01 pm
Strangely the measurement doesn't change if I change from HighZ to 50 ohm impedance.

https://i.imgur.com/bvSz2xu.png (https://i.imgur.com/bvSz2xu.png)

The red curve is BNC direct connected to scope. Doesn't matter if I select HighZ or 50 ohm impedance. The yellow trace is BNC connected to BNC-T-adapter with 50 ohm termination. As you can see, the 20Vpp is divided by 2, maybe because of a voltage divider. For my MSO5000, I cannot change input impedance. The button is grayed out and it says 1 M ohm.

Any suggesstions why there is no difference between HighZ and 50 ohm on DG800? What am I doing wrong?

Yes MSO5000 has only 1M input, no switchable 50 ohm.

The spec of the DG800 is 10Vpp into 50 ohm, so that is the most output you will see into a matched load. In your case if you connect 1M, this doubles, as you have a 50 ohm source and no 50 ohm loading it down.
Usually, when you switch from 50 ohm to Hi-z, the output will not change. The UI will simply be updated to have a different displayed voltage (in this case, it should show 10V, if you switch to Hi-Z then 20V).
But maybe as bd139 is hinting at, could be a UI bug.

You can try a lower voltage and see if the result is the same (1Vpp say), the UI should update when switching modes.

https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx%3Fckey%3D1948055%26id%3D1948055%26nid%3D-11143.0.00%26lc%3Djpn%26cc%3DJP?&cc=CA&lc=eng (https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx%3Fckey%3D1948055%26id%3D1948055%26nid%3D-11143.0.00%26lc%3Djpn%26cc%3DJP?&cc=CA&lc=eng)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 17, 2019, 09:48:45 pm
Correct, the DG's output impedance is always 50Ω. The setting in the DG simply changes the amplitude value that's displayed, assuming that you're connecting it to a device with an input impedance that matches the setting you chose.

On an oscilloscope with switchable input impedance, the setting does change the input impedance.

It's a bit confusing, but that's the story.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 18, 2019, 09:30:40 am
You are right. I did some tests on 1 Vpp. And as you said, if I change to 50 ohm than the output amplitude is automatically set to 500 mVpp.

Here are some screenshots. DG811 on HighZ:
(https://i.imgur.com/VvqEUOi.png)

Resulting measurement on MSO5000 without 50 ohm termination:
(https://i.imgur.com/C0IdSrQ.png)

Now, DG811 on 50 ohms:
(https://i.imgur.com/tDG70UW.png)

Resulting measurement on MSO5000 without 50 ohm termination
(https://i.imgur.com/2e8eQZG.png)

Resulting measurement on MSO5000 with 50 ohm termination
(https://i.imgur.com/eCg71u0.png)

It was a litte bit difficult to obtain the screenshots from DG811 without using an USB disk. Here is the code which I wrote to do it with Python and PyVISA:
Code: [Select]
import visa
import datetime

def main():
    rm = visa.ResourceManager()
    res = rm.list_resources()
    my_instrument = rm.open_resource(res[0])
    my_instrument.write(':HCOP:SDUM:DATA:FORM PNG')
    print ('Screenshot format: '+my_instrument.query('HCOPy:SDUMp:DATA:FORMat?'))
   
    my_instrument.write(':HCOPy:SDUMp:DATA?')
   
    bmpdata = my_instrument.read_raw(391734+11)
    bmpdata = bmpdata[11:]
    my_instrument.close()
    fileName = datetime.datetime.now().strftime("%Y%m%d_%H%M%S")
    fileName = 'Screenshot_'+fileName+'.PNG'
    with open(fileName,"wb") as f:
        f.write(bmpdata)
   
if __name__=='__main__':
    main()

Best regards
timber23
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on May 18, 2019, 09:40:53 am
Yeah that's all correct  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 18, 2019, 01:53:16 pm
Thanks for testing. Even with 50 Ohm termination the square wave has some ringing. It seems fairly bad compared with other generators.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 18, 2019, 02:45:33 pm
Well, I couldn't resist the possible opportunity to get a quite well performing, full featured generator at the price of the entry level model. Not that I'ld really need another AWG, but I'm probably a bad case of TEA and once in a while I've just got to get another piece...

Actually, this time I really followed the EEVBlog rules and took the unit apart before I turned it on. So here's a sequence of posts with just photos of the interior of a DG811. Actually, I found nothing to complain about, the build quality is first class and I really like how the metal chassis is integrated in the instrument. Disassembly is easy and all the boards seem to be well laid out. The quality of the switch mode transformer impressed me, it's actually wound with triple-insulated magnetic wire despite a decent layer insulation. The PSU appears to be intended to be used in several instruments just by the fact that a mains frequency coupler is included (hence it might be used in an oscilloscope, providing a source for mains trigger). Output voltages are 5V, +-7V and +-17V. The solder side of the PCB is actually conformally coated with the mounting pads spared out.

I'm quite surprised Rigol used a plug-in CPU board in this instrument. Maybe they intend to design several instruments around this platform. It's funny that there's an unpopulated LAN footprint on the PCB that supposedly requires a connector with integrated isolation transformer. Who will be the first one to install it in order to figure out if it works?

An now for the teardown photos -- Enjoy!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 18, 2019, 02:46:52 pm
More Photos...

BTW, now we know that Rigol's internal designation of the DG800/900 series is "Sardine"  :-DD
If that name somehow relates to the design of the instrument's enclosure? Gills everywhere...

P.S.The laser-etched output amp is most likely a THS3091.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 18, 2019, 02:51:25 pm
Still more Photos...

BTW, the DAC is an AD9747 -- I wonder why "some" companies don't understand that it's no use lasering the markings off a chip... except maybe being unable to find out that the company skimped with the speed grading...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 18, 2019, 02:52:32 pm
Yet still more Photos...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 18, 2019, 03:10:46 pm
BTW, now we know that Rigol's internal designation of the DG800/900 series is "Sardine"  :-DD
If that name somehow relates to the design of the instrument's enclosure? Gills everywhere...

The executable is also "Sardine"!  :)

BTW, nice job!  :clap:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on May 18, 2019, 03:25:07 pm
Indeed. Very nice job. Thanks for this  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 18, 2019, 08:45:02 pm
HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Get a blank formatted USB disk (capacity >= 1GB)

2. Write signature in the disk with the following command (in linux):

        sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000

3. With special USB disk inserted, send the SCPI command (for example) to change model to DG992:

        :PROJ:MODE DG992

Possible model types (as seen in the first 4 bytes of sd.xx configuration file):
00 - DG811
01 - DG821
02 - DG831
03 - DG812
04 - DG822
05 - DG832
06 - DG952
07 - DG972
08 - DG992

ATTENTION: Use a blank disk and be sure it's mounted as /dev/sda1. Don't blame me if you do things wrong!!

(I included some pics kindly sent by a voluntary member)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on May 18, 2019, 08:51:29 pm
LOL. Wondering if I should grab a DG811 now before they all disappear in a puff of smoke :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 18, 2019, 09:14:42 pm
Did someone managed to get a USB to ethernet adapter working? I have a super cheap adapter from action.com here, but DG811 aka DG992 is not getting an IP-address via DHCP.

Any suggestions? I had a look on amazon's offers, but I didn't find any information about the used chipsets.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 18, 2019, 09:15:16 pm
HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Get a blank formatted USB disk (capacity >= 1GB)

2. Write signature in the disk with the following command (in linux):

        sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000

Thanks for posting the info! :)
Where do I get the binary file? Is it already in this thread and I missed it?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 18, 2019, 09:18:57 pm
Thanks for posting the info! :)
Where do I get the binary file? Is it already in this thread and I missed it?

It is the first attachment of tv84 post.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391)

It is inside the ZIP file.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 18, 2019, 09:21:39 pm
Thank you! I completely skipped that. Maybe due to reading parts of this thread on mobile...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 18, 2019, 09:22:00 pm
Did someone managed to get a USB to ethernet adapter working? I have a super cheap adapter from action.com here, but DG811 aka DG992 is not getting an IP-address via DHCP.

Any suggestions? I had a look on amazon's offers, but I didn't find any information about the used chipsets.

These driver modules are present:

Code: [Select]
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000      842148 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/r8188eu.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       19076 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/rtl_usb.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       50952 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/rtl8192c-common.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       42048 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/usbnet.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       32048 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/r8152.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       22848 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/usbtmc_dev.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       69052 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/rtlwifi.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       19936 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/usbtmc.ko
-rwxrw-rw-  1 1000  1000       85044 2018-07-19 09:12:50 modules/rtl8192cu.ko

usbnet.ko
Code: [Select]
.rodata.str1.4:000038E0 47 65 6E 65 53 79+.LC8            DCB "GeneSys",0         ; DATA XREF: usbnet_open+1ACo
.rodata.str1.4:000038E8 4E 65 74 43 68 69+.LC9            DCB "NetChip",0         ; DATA XREF: usbnet_open+19Co
.rodata.str1.4:000038F0 5A 61 75 72 75 73+.LC10           DCB "Zaurus",0          ; DATA XREF: usbnet_open+1BCo
.rodata.str1.4:000038F8 52 4E 44 49 53 00 .LC11           DCB "RNDIS",0           ; DATA XREF: usbnet_open+1CCo
.rodata.str1.4:00003908 41 53 49 58 00    .LC13           DCB "ASIX",0            ; DATA XREF: usbnet_open+1D8o
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ogden on May 18, 2019, 09:26:14 pm
LOL. Wondering if I should grab a DG811 now before they all disappear in a puff of smoke :-DD

Out of stock in Batronix (https://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Rigol-DG811.html) already  ::)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 18, 2019, 10:11:44 pm
xD Big thank you to tv84 for buying me a brand new DG992!

Worked like a charm on my DG812!

Edit: I am curious though. Is the performance actually the same as with a "true" DG992?

Sinewave from ca. 2MHz and above is heavily attenuated
Ripple on squarewave is the same as in timber23s screenshots and gets pretty unusable after that (not very square after all above 6MHz).

Would be interesting to see if the output of a genuine DG992 differs. Might be, that there is some hardware selection in the factory just like other binning. (just a guess)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 18, 2019, 11:10:17 pm
Edit: I am curious though. Is the performance actually the same as with a "true" DG992?

Sinewave from ca. 2MHz and above is heavily attenuated

The output amplitude spec for all DG800 and DG900 is the same:

Amplitude (into 50Ω):
≤10 MHz: 1.0 mVpp to 10 Vpp
≤30 MHz: 1.0 mVpp to 5.0 Vpp
≤60 MHz: 1.0 mVpp to 2.5 Vpp
>60 MHz: 1.0 mVpp to 1 Vpp

There should not be heavy attenuation beginning at only 2 MHz.

Quote
Ripple on squarewave is the same as in timber23s screenshots and gets pretty unusable after that (not very square after all above 6MHz).

What are you measuring it with and what is your setup?

Quote
Would be interesting to see if the output of a genuine DG992 differs. Might be, that there is some hardware selection in the factory just like other binning. (just a guess)

From what I've seen, other Rigol products have not used any special hardware differences for software-limited functionality. I wouldn't expect them to treat this product line any differently.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 18, 2019, 11:11:54 pm
Thank you, TurboTom, for the teardown pics.

Thank you, tv84, for all the work you put into feature research ;D and for sharing them with us.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on May 18, 2019, 11:12:38 pm
Is it confirmed that the sample frequency goes to 250ms/s with the “upgrade?.  I’m desperately trying to find some difference between the 800 and 900 series to help me justify spending $600US on my DG952. :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 18, 2019, 11:43:37 pm
I did some tests comparing a pimped RIGOL DG811 (DG992-mode) vs. a pimped Siglent SDG2042X (SDG2122X-mode).

I used the same BNC cable which I unpluged and repluged during the tests. The mesurement was taken by a RIGOL MSO5000 oscilloscope. BNC cable was terminated using 50 ohm on T-adaptor.

Rigol DG811 (pimped to DG992) set to 25 MHz square wave, 4 Vpp, 50 ohm:
(https://i.imgur.com/f0N9ArF.png)

Siglent SDG2042 (pimped to SDG2122X), set to 25 MHz square wave, 4 Vpp, 50 ohm:
(https://i.imgur.com/mm8FN8C.png)

Comparison of both signals, Siglent's trace in green colour:
(https://i.imgur.com/tIgKN9m.png)

Now sine wave, 100 MHz, 1 Vpp (since 1Vpp is max. amplitute of DG992), 50 Ohm.

DG811 (pimped to DG992):
(https://i.imgur.com/hNzu6cC.png)

SDG2042X (pimped to SDG2122X):
(https://i.imgur.com/CG6sPJx.png)

Comparison of both traces, Siglent in green colour:
(https://i.imgur.com/tbLMX1j.png)

You can clearly see that the RIGOL is much more attenuated at 100MHz than the Siglent. Furthermore Siglent's square wave is a little bit better. But SDG2042X costs 565€ (upgradeable to SDG2122X) compared to 236€ for DG811 (upgradeable to DG992). Considering the price, DG811/DG992 is the winner in my opinion.

Update: I changed the labeling of the measurements because of TurboTom's objection. I do not own a genuine DG992, nor do I have access to one. Sorry for any confusion.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 18, 2019, 11:46:04 pm
Did some testing already on my "pimped" 811...

Actually, there is considerable amplitude drop above approx. 50MHz with the two channels slightly differing from each other. I only tested at 1Vpp into 50 Ohms so far and did a slow sweep from 10kHz to 100MHz. I had the Vpp measurement running and took a history record of this, see attached screenshots. If this is the result of inadequate hardware or the instrument not being calibrated over the full range has yet to be found out.

The ugly ringing on square or other waveforms with steep edges apparently is the result of the anti-aliasing filter after the DAC. This filter seems to be pretty effective with the edge at round about 115MHz. Since this means, all the higher frequency components of a square wave (which aren't present anyway at the output of a 250MSa/s DAC) are missing from the signal, the mentioned observations may just be obvious. Attached you will find two more screenshots visualizing this.

BTW, if you take a look at the "solder side" (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2419776/#msg2419776) of the main PCB, you get an idea how Rigol got away without any external shielding of the AWG's enclosure...it's simply one big ground plane. I wonder how many layers this board has. It's amazing they can sell this package for round about 200EUR (plus VAT if applicable).

I found some more peculiarities but these will follow probably tomorrow night...

Cheers,
Thomas

P.S. Altogether, I consider the DG811 so far as some of the best spent money. It's not an SDG6000X (which has its shortcomings as well) but as a general purpose AWG (hacked), there's little left to wish for (not to talk about the casing design...). Hardware-wise it's close to perfect and the firmware is surprisingly complete and stable. So if you're in the market for a decent AWG for your hobby electronics workbench, with the DG811 you can't go wrong!

Edit: The output level recorded for CH2 in the attached screenshots may not be completely accurate since I later identified a dodgy adapter that i used during this test. Further tests with a power meter actually indicate that both channels perform very similar, CH2 may be even slightly better than CH1.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on May 19, 2019, 12:19:08 am
What about arb memory? Is there 16MB hidden in the 800 series that is made available with the “upgrade”?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 19, 2019, 12:42:35 am
What about arb memory? Is there 16MB hidden in the 800 series that is made available with the “upgrade”?

Of course -- the sample memory DRAM chip attached to the FPGA is an MT41K128M16JT-125 (128M*16) so this provides more than enough space for two channels of 16M*16 including double-buffering and what not. After having read @timber23's post I'm pretty sure the hardware of the DG8xx and DG9xx series is identical.

I may have to modify this last statement after having read @timber23's previous contributions: timber23, you specified you compared a DG992 to the Siglent SDG2000X, I assumed it was a "real" DG992 but now I'm not too sure anymore since apparently you've (also?) got an upgraded DG8xx. I guess we should be very careful and accurate with the designations of the instruments, i.e. I'ld never call my "pimped" DG811 a DG992.

We're just at the very beginning of this adventure and we cannot be sure yet that there really aren't any differences unless we had a close look at a "real" DG992. So far, my DG811 is a DG811 that "thinks" it's a DG992...  ;)

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 19, 2019, 06:37:54 am
What about arb memory? Is there 16MB hidden in the 800 series that is made available with the “upgrade”?
timber23, you specified you compared a DG992 to the Siglent SDG2000X, I assumed it was a "real" DG992 but now I'm not too sure anymore since apparently you've (also?) got an upgraded DG8xx. I guess we should be very careful and accurate with the designations of the instruments, i.e. I'ld never call my "pimped" DG811 a DG992.
Sorry for the confusion. I modified my post for clarity.
@commongrounder : You said that you own a DG952. Maybe you can perform some test, which we can compare our "pimped DG811s" to.

Maybe someone has an idea for a test-setup which can distinguish a sample rate of 250 MSa/s from 125 MSa/s.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 19, 2019, 07:02:20 am
Sample rate is 250M on the "DG811+++" otherwise it wouldn't be possible to output 100MHz at all and we should observe bad aliasing above 62.5MHz output frequency. I'm quite certain that even the original DG8xx sereis samples at 250M, maybe arbitrary waveforms are limited to 125MSa/s, doubling each sample. It should also be possible by checking when (i.e. at what frequencies) the instrument outputs a "clean" square wave without edge jitter. These frequencies would need to be whole-number factors of the sampling rate, so by figuring out a few it should be possible to deduce on the latter. Will look into this more closely in the evening.

Edit: Added the screen shot of my sample rate test. I used an arbitrary waveform with as many steep edges as possible for that. The reason is that the "controlled edge technology" that Rigol calls "SiFi2" is not operational in Arb mode. This means, slopes are defined by just a single sample interval, also recognisable by the slightly faster rise/fall times and (even) more ringing. Now I selected a frequency at which the signal cannot be reproduced by full integers of the sampling frequency, resulting in edge jitter. I measured the time between the two traces that are shown when the scope "averages" over several scans and calculate the frequency which should resemble actual sample rate. And voila, 250MHz!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: idolclub on May 19, 2019, 11:22:39 am
HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Get a blank formatted USB disk (capacity >= 1GB)

2. Write signature in the disk with the following command (in linux):

        sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000



Amazing !!  DG811 free upgrade to DG992.  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 19, 2019, 12:11:39 pm
I am going to go through this: DG900 performance verification guide (https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-ac0a4084-7340-4829-9b9e-a9e921c92533/1/-/-/-/-/DG900_PerformanceVerificationGuide_EN.pdf) and see what gives.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: commongrounder on May 19, 2019, 01:21:56 pm
I’m willing to perform tests with my DG952, if given the exact procedure.  I’m curious whether paying a premium for the 900 series got me more than a black cabinet color!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kodovo on May 19, 2019, 02:46:56 pm
Out of stock in Batronix (https://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Rigol-DG811.html) already  ::)

Wow, there is now up to 40 days lead time for the orders.  Placed my today.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 19, 2019, 08:36:40 pm
I am going to go through this: DG900 performance verification guide (https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-ac0a4084-7340-4829-9b9e-a9e921c92533/1/-/-/-/-/DG900_PerformanceVerificationGuide_EN.pdf) and see what gives.
Thank you for this Guide. I performed the Harmonic Distortion Test using my Siglent SSA 3021X. My pimped DG811 (aka DG992) passed all scenaios on both channels. Please find attached the resulting screenshots.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 19, 2019, 08:40:43 pm
I performed the Harmonic Distortion Test using my Siglent SSA 3021X. My pimped DG811 (aka DG992) passed all scenaios on both channels. Please find attached the resulting screenshots.

Nice work and good news!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 19, 2019, 08:58:04 pm
That's looking good, timber! How does it look at 100 MHz, just to complete the range?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 19, 2019, 09:20:12 pm
That's looking good, timber! How does it look at 100 MHz, just to complete the range?

As you requested, here are the results for 100MHz. This test is not part of RIGOL's "DG900 Performance Verification Guide". Furthermore I add the fall/rise-time and overshoot test. I performed the tests with respect to the beforementioned guide.

It is funny that my channel 2 has less overshoot than channel 1, because channel 2 was disabled before unlock...

Just for completeness: This is how my measurement setup looks like.
(https://i.imgur.com/Un3dfDg.jpg)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 19, 2019, 09:38:14 pm
That's looking good, timber! How does it look at 100 MHz, just to complete the range?

As you requested, here are the results for 100MHz. This test is not part of RIGOL's "DG900 Performance Verification Guide".

Thanks. Looks good. Since the spec table in the guide said less than -35 dBc for any frequency over 40 MHz, I just had to see if it could make it all the way to 100 MHz. It certainly does. :-+

Quote
Furthermore I add the fall/rise-time and overshoot test. I performed the tests with respect to the beforementioned guide.

Does the rise/fall time measurement change much if you use a faster timebase? I'd get more slope visible on screen (i.e., instead of a vertical line) for measurement purposes.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 19, 2019, 09:50:53 pm
Does the rise/fall time measurement change much if you use a faster timebase? I'd get more slope visible on screen (i.e., instead of a vertical line) for measurement purposes.
No, it doesn't change much. I adjusted the timebase to 1µs in the previous test, because it is specified in the guide. Now I changed it to 10ns. Please find attached the resulting measurement.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 19, 2019, 09:55:12 pm
OK, cool. Thanks for checking, timber. I feel more confident seeing it measured this way. :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 20, 2019, 02:52:41 am
HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Get a blank formatted USB disk (capacity >= 1GB)

2. Write signature in the disk with the following command (in linux):

        sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000


This sounds great! Does anyone know how to do this on Windows? What file system should the USB be formatted to? What is the equivalent signature command?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 20, 2019, 04:34:17 am
Here's a good place to start: https://www.google.com/search?q=dd+for+windows (https://www.google.com/search?q=dd+for+windows)

I haven't tried dd on non-Linux platforms, but if one of them supports all the parameters, it should work.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 20, 2019, 06:15:28 am
HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Get a blank formatted USB disk (capacity >= 1GB)

2. Write signature in the disk with the following command (in linux):

        sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000


This sounds great! Does anyone know how to do this on Windows? What file system should the USB be formatted to? What is the equivalent signature command?
I used a virtual machine (VMware) with Xubuntu installed. VMware player or VirtualBox are free software and the procedure works. Inside a VM you won't do any damage to your system, if you use dd command wrong. Installation is nowadays straight forward. Opening a terminal should be easy. Finding the correct device path to USB drive is also easy, when knowing the command, e.g. "lsblk" or maybe "sudo lsblk". Knowing the correct path leads to the dd command introduced by tv84. That's it.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 20, 2019, 07:26:25 am
Since I also didn't have a Linux machine available (my Linux netbook silently vanished in my epic mess...too many projects at a time...and I was too lazy to wire up a Raspi) I used a free disc editor (HxD) to manually enter the eight "magic" bytes at the beginning of sector 2000000 of the thumb drive. Worked a treat.

Regarding the performance of a "pimped" DG811, it clearly doesn't match the specs of a DG9xx. The latter is specified with an amplitude accuracy of +-1dB above 40MHz and we're consitently seeing close to -3dB @ 100MHz on the modified DG8xx's. We've got to figure out how the calibration of the DG9xx is supposed to work to finally be able to tell if there's a hardware difference -- maybe actually the DG8xx series utilizes a different output opamp than the DG9xx series since two of the THS3091 that I'ld expect there would add considerably to the BOM...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 20, 2019, 08:14:56 am
Since I also didn't have a Linux machine available (my Linux netbook silently vanished in my epic mess...too many projects at a time...and I was too lazy to wire up a Raspi) I used a free disc editor (HxD) to manually enter the eight "magic" bytes at the beginning of sector 2000000 of the thumb drive. Worked a treat.

Cool :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 20, 2019, 08:37:32 am
Since I also didn't have a Linux machine available (my Linux netbook silently vanished in my epic mess...too many projects at a time...and I was too lazy to wire up a Raspi) I used a free disc editor (HxD) to manually enter the eight "magic" bytes at the beginning of sector 2000000 of the thumb drive. Worked a treat.

Regarding the performance of a "pimped" DG811, it clearly doesn't match the specs of a DG9xx. The latter is specified with an amplitude accuracy of +-1dB above 40MHz and we're consitently seeing close to -3dB @ 100MHz on the modified DG8xx's. We've got to figure out how the calibration of the DG9xx is supposed to work to finally be able to tell if there's a hardware difference -- maybe actually the DG8xx series utilizes a different output opamp than the DG9xx series since two of the THS3091 that I'ld expect there would add considerably to the BOM...
Your approach, using HexEditor, is much better than mine if someone has no Linux available. Thanks for sharing.

Did you spot any parts on the PCB which could cause this ~ -3dB attenuation?

Maybe the user with his DG952 could upgrade to DG992 and check if his amplitude at 100 MHz is within +/- 1dB ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: idolclub on May 20, 2019, 09:03:04 am
Here's a good place to start: https://www.google.com/search?q=dd+for+windows (https://www.google.com/search?q=dd+for+windows)

I haven't tried dd on non-Linux platforms, but if one of them supports all the parameters, it should work.
There is no need to install linux, just download Ubuntu Linux ISO and running Ubuntu directly from either a USB stick or a DVD.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 20, 2019, 11:36:31 am
After another, more thorough reading of the DG900 performance verification guide, it appears that the "improved" DG8xx may actually match the requirements of the DG992!

First of all, the performance specs list the amplitude accuracy as "typical" which basically means you can forget all the number that follow...  :o

Then, the verification procedure of the amplitude accuracy asks just for a test at 50MHz as the highest frequency where the output amplitude has to be +-1dB accurate -- which shouldn't be a problem for a modified DG8xx.

---------

Just did it correctly and pulled my 437B / 8482A power meter out to do the amplitude accuracy test "the proper way". At the specified test frequencies for the DG992, my "DG811+++" performs better than within one tenth of the permitted error margins on both channels. I further tested for the frequency of 1dB amplitude drop, which were 81MHz and 85MHz for channels 1 and 2. At 100MHz I measured a drop of 2.16dB and 1.83dB, respectively.

So we may actually be up to a surprise if we'ld get a chance to test a "real" DG992...  >:D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Zack on May 20, 2019, 02:43:23 pm
maybe actually the DG8xx series utilizes a different output opamp than the DG9xx

The Motherboard part numbers 2010004229 in the the DG800 and DG900 are identical, comparing the Service Guides.

https://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20190213/DG800_ServiceGuide_CN.pdf (https://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20190213/DG800_ServiceGuide_CN.pdf)
https://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20190213/DG900_ServiceGuide_CN.pdf (https://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20190213/DG900_ServiceGuide_CN.pdf)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 20, 2019, 05:20:43 pm
@Zack -

welcome to the forum and great finding! This should actually wipe away all my (our?) concerns regarding differences between DG800 and DG900 series, the hardware is identical and hence the performace should be the same after the upgrade. I'm curious if there's a calibration guide available on the chinese site already?

During my tests of the "DG811+++" I found a few peculiarities:

It's good to see that parameter changes (frequency) of sine output takes place without any glitches. Square and Pulse waveforms provide (almost) glitch-free parameter changes (frequency, symmetry/pulse width, slope) up to frequencies of 1MHz, above that, the signal pauses for a few milliseconds at half the signal level (i.e.[Vmax+Vmin]/2).
The "almost" mentioned above means that once in a while I was able to catch a strange high frequency glitch of several superimposed frequencies when changing the frequency setting, see attached screenshots.
Ramp and Arb waveforms always pause for a few milliseconds upon parameter changes.

Amplitude changes only cause glitches if the internal attenuators switch ranges. Yet, this happens rather often. I found such switching events (50 Ohms output impedance selected, for high-impedance, double the specified figures) to take place at 2.5mV, 6.4mV, 16mV, 40mV, 100mV, 256mV, 640mV*, 1.6V and 4V. It's quite peculiar that the 640mV switching event takes place without an audible relay click. If a glitch-free level sweep is required, the output signal can be amplitude modulated by an internal ramp.

I also did the "PAL raster frequency test" (outputting two ramps of 50Hz and 15625Hz and observing the relative phase) that my SDG6000X failed at and found the "DG811+++" to fail as well. The phase should stay constant, i.e. the frequencies should stay locked against each other, but I find them to walk through at very slow pace in an incremental manner, see the third and fourth screen shot. They can be brought back to the original relation by pressing the "Align" button.

Considering the price of the "unimproved" instrument  ;), these small problems may be tolerable, especially since they are really of minor importance for the average user.

Btw, the very nice touch screen is extremely well integrated into the UI concept, it's obvious that the whole UI had been designed with the touch panel in mind instead of other manufactures' approaches where it's plain to see that a touch panel had been added to an existing firmware package and it more or less only duplicates functions that can be accessed via the key pad as well.

Cheers,
Tom


P.S. Just for fun I aded a fifth screen shot where I compared the rise times of the edges in Pulse mode between the "DG811+++"  and my "SDG6000X-I" ("I" =  improved...must be chosing the equipment upon the possibility to hack...  >:D) Hint: The measured rise time of the SDG is rather limited by the scope used than by the generator!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 20, 2019, 05:49:51 pm
@TurboTom -thanks for digging into it. I already ordered one.  It will be fun to compare against Keysight 33522.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 21, 2019, 12:57:15 am
I did not find any remote control software for DG800/900. Because I wanted to control the device from PC, I wrote a small Python script.
I used Python 3.7 with PyQt5 and PyVISA. If you do not have it: After installing Python3 you can install PyQt5 with "pip install PyQt5" and PyVISA with "pip install pyvisa"
The GUI is made using Qt Designer.
(https://i.imgur.com/2bMXQQ9.png)
To change a value type it in and press [enter].

Execute from command line with all three files in same folder: "python myDG800.py"

The script is "work in progress". Maybe it is of some use for anybody...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 21, 2019, 01:04:43 am
Looks cool, timber. Thanks for using Python 3.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 21, 2019, 02:56:01 pm
I have the opportunity to do some measurements with a real DG992. It seems that at least at the top end of the frequency range, the real one is better.

I did an initial comparison. If you have special requests, let me know. But I am not allowed to open the device.
(https://i.imgur.com/ublxjuY.jpg)
Please note that I used the same cable for all the tests. The second cable in the photo above let to misleading results.

Somehow the pimped DG811's signal is a little bit attenuatet (-2.2 dBm) at 100MHz.

Best regards
Timber

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 21, 2019, 03:23:42 pm
timber,

Convert the 992 to 811 and do the same tests.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 21, 2019, 05:01:48 pm
@timber23 --
Great that you had the opportunity to test a genuine DG992, and thanks a lot for the info.
Since we know that the hardware of the DG800 and DG900 series is identical, I'ld assume that it's all about a different calibration of the two flavors.
This means one way or the other we've got to get hold of the calibration instructions...

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on May 21, 2019, 05:37:09 pm
Another possibility is that they test the boards after production and sort them by performance. The good performer goes for the DG992 and the average for the other models.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 21, 2019, 07:06:08 pm
Another possibility is that they test the boards after production and sort them by performance. The good performer goes for the DG992 and the average for the other models.

That was exactly my guess.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on May 21, 2019, 07:23:22 pm
It's possible that they bin the final boards by performance, but it may simply be that the calibration just isn't performed at frequencies above their model designation.

Being able to recalibrate the generators would take care of either case. So, that would be the important next endeavor.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 21, 2019, 07:50:17 pm
I bet on calibration. That's why I asked timber to convert the 992 in a 811/812 and do some tests.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: 2N3055 on May 21, 2019, 08:35:23 pm
With today process control and components, I would be surprised if there was any significant spread in specs across batches. Any spread is calculated in into parameter calibration range. They save money calibrating amplitude for smaller bandwidth.
Short version: I also highly doubt there is binning, only partial calibration. Binning actually cost money, they would avoid it, leaving only shorter calibration as a savings on lesser models..
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on May 21, 2019, 08:46:49 pm
With today process control and components, I would be surprised if there was any significant spread in specs across batches. Any spread is calculated in into parameter calibration range. They save money calibrating amplitude for smaller bandwidth.
Short version: I also highly doubt there is binning, only partial calibration. Binning actually cost money, they would avoid it, leaving only shorter calibration as a savings on lesser models..

Make sense.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 21, 2019, 09:21:12 pm
Processor: https://www.ti.com/product/AM3352 (https://www.ti.com/product/AM3352)

That is a nice processor board, price seems not bad for TI, $6 for 1GHz A8.
J1 connector seems to just be to prevent you from plugging it in backwards! The connections don't go anywhere. There is a very small risk though of that board falling out, if there is excessive shock during transportation.

Ram (2pc): https://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr3-sdram/part-catalog/mt41k128m16jt-125-it (https://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr3-sdram/part-catalog/mt41k128m16jt-125-it)
DDR3-1600 256MB ~$8

Relay (12pc): http://www.hongfa.com/product/detail/70689a00-9d73-4802-b0ac-e36561332f57 (http://www.hongfa.com/product/detail/70689a00-9d73-4802-b0ac-e36561332f57)
HFD4/4.5-S <$1 ea

DAC (if its the one reported above): https://www.analog.com/en/products/ad9747.html#product-overview (https://www.analog.com/en/products/ad9747.html#product-overview)
AD9747 Dual 16-Bit 250 MSPS $16
AD9743/AD9745/AD9746 are reported as lower bit rate (10, 12, 14-bit) so probably cannot be swapped in, but who knows? They could still be using the same die.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 22, 2019, 12:45:11 am
I conducted the following test:
First DG922 connected to Rigol MSO5000 via BNC and 50ohm termination.
I put DG922 in all possible modes using channel 1.
I measured every 100 KHz Vpp starting at 1 MHz up to maximum frequency using SCPI commands (one command to set freq. and one for measuring).
After finishing all modes for DG922 I disconnected the BNC cable from DG922 and connected it to DG811. After that I performed the same measurements for all modes again.

All measurements were added to an excel sheet (see file attached).

This is how the plot of the data looks like. Until 55MHz the results are very similar. After that there is a difference between DG992 and DG811, independed of the mode set.
(https://i.imgur.com/F0EM3Gh.png)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 22, 2019, 12:58:51 am
Until 55MHz the results are very similar. After that there is a difference between DG992 and DG811, independent of the mode set.

That looks about what I am seeing on my hax0red DG812 (though I do not have that sophisticated kind of gear to really verify).

Thank you for going through all the effort! :)  :-/O


Edit: There is no calibration manual available yet for either DG800 or DG900 series, but as these are available for more or less the rest of the line-up it might be just a matter of time to see it pop up here:

https://www.rigol.eu/calibration/ (https://www.rigol.eu/calibration/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: toshas on May 22, 2019, 09:00:27 am
I'm looking for compatible usb-lan adapter.
Could you share working models ?
Already tried Lenovo FRU03X6903 (RTL8153) and Dlink DUB-1312 (AX88179) with no success "adapter not found".

P.S. tv84 reported that r8188eu.ko module is included, does it means that usb-wifi is possible too?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on May 22, 2019, 09:09:04 am
All measurements were added to an excel sheet (see file attached).

This is how the plot of the data looks like. Until 55MHz the results are very similar. After that there is a difference between DG992 and DG811, independed of the mode set.

This is precisely what I asked for although I still haven't processed the pic fully!! : ;D

So, one thing is certain:

we may not be able to create an official 992 without adjustments, but a 952 is guaranteed.

Right?

PS: Thank you timber for all that work.

P.S. tv84 reported that r8188eu.ko module is included, does it means that usb-wifi is possible too?

I think the answer is yes.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 22, 2019, 09:44:30 am
I'm looking for compatible usb-lan adapter.
Could you share working models ?
Already tried Lenovo FRU03X6903 (RTL8152) and Dlink DUB-1312 (AX88179) with no success "adapter not found".

P.S. tv84 reported that r8188eu.ko module is included, does it means that usb-wifi is possible too?

I have tried this one. It is not working, just shows the LXI-symbol, but does not get IP address.
Code: [Select]
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0bda:8152 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8152 Fast Ethernet AdapterIt is a noname device, looks white with "75.007.24/JP208" written on the side.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: toshas on May 22, 2019, 09:53:15 am
I'm sorry FRU03X6903 has RTL8153.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: toshas on May 22, 2019, 06:35:53 pm
Also tried TP-Link UE200 (RTL8152B) with no luck.

Finally found this one : D-Link DUB-E100 rev. D1 (AX88772), vid:pid 2001:1a02 and it works!

:phew:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rtv on May 24, 2019, 02:39:40 pm
DG811 pcb pictures: https://app.box.com/s/rjgizdvupdsnn4do5hnmw8jmyqdargsz (https://app.box.com/s/rjgizdvupdsnn4do5hnmw8jmyqdargsz)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 24, 2019, 06:26:12 pm
For whatever reason I didn't have any luck with Ultra Sigma to send the SCPI command. *IDN? was able to receive a response so that part was working OK. Tried restarting PC and now Ultra Sigma won't even connect, it just crashes when I try to right click the DG811, or closes the window.

So I tried in pyvisa and it worked OK. If anyone else wondering, there is no response back from the instrument after the command is sent. Then the model will be changed right away in sys info, after this you can restart the instrument and limits/UI will then be updated.

Quote
rm = pyvisa.ResourceManager()   #'@py' will not find the DG800
print(rm.list_resources())

gen = rm.open_resource('USB0::0x1AB1::0x0643::DG8A2xxxxxxxx::INSTR')

#Request ID string
print(gen.query('*IDN?'))

#Change model
gen.write(':PROJ:MODE DG992') #works but no response: print(gen.query(':PROJ:MODE DG992'))

#Close the connection
gen.close()
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on May 28, 2019, 11:15:41 am
Since I am getting quite some personal messages regarding how to perform the upgrade I thought it might be useful to elaborate on the method that was kindly put forward by tv84.

dd bs=512 seek=2000000 skips 2*106*512 bytes of memory before writing the contents of the image file. Hence, the USB stick needing to have more memory than 1Gb.

In short: When the DG### sees the contents of the image file on a USB medium from byte 1024000000 onward, it will be listening to the "special" SCPI commands.

My first try was formatting with OS X Diskutility (GUI) and then write the image via dd on the command line. However, SCPI hack did not work afterwards.
Second try I deleted the Volume with diskutil from the command line and then wrote the .img via dd and my DG812 would start as a DG992 on next reboot.
There is no confirmation / ACK sent back by the device though (at least I did not get a response code via SCPI) and you will only see if it worked after restarting the device.

In case you do not know how to use diskutil, how to identify the correct mount point and how not to screw up your other hard drives / media connected to the computer you are working on, please get familiar with what dd and diskutil actually do. It is quite easy to shoot yourself in the foot with those tools. ;)

Please let me know if you need more information.

Also, there is a dd port for Windows: http://www.chrysocome.net/dd (http://www.chrysocome.net/dd)
It is quite an old release and I did not try it myself, but maybe this is of use to some of you.

Kind regards
Frederik
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: gossamer on May 28, 2019, 12:58:33 pm
I had some issues with preparing the partition on the usb flash drive from OSX. I ended up using linux VM and followed this tutorial: https://www.redips.net/linux/create-fat32-usb-drive/ (https://www.redips.net/linux/create-fat32-usb-drive/)

after which I dd the file and everything went smooth.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 28, 2019, 09:41:20 pm
I got mine to upgrade. I used HxD to edit the USB drive and MATLAB tmtool to connect to the instrument. It went smoothly. You can tell that the upgrade worked when the color scheme changes and even the output LEDs switch color from green to red.

I tested briefly the DG811(->DG992) in comparison with Keysight 33500B series. There are obvious limitations of the DG811: overshoot and time jitter are worse, I will post some data later. So, it can't replace a higher-quality generator, but probably a good deal for 1/4 the price of a used Keysight.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 29, 2019, 06:15:08 am
Just noticed that using CH2 and the frequency counter are mutually exclusive. Apparently, the hardware resources (FPGA cells / grunt) won't permit contemporary operation. Considering the market that Rigol's new(ish) low end AWGs are intended for, the integration of a frequency counter may make some sense, especially since Rigol's implementation is quite nice, providing statistics and graphical display. But including it and providing an extra BNC input for the counter and then skimping on the hardware in that way is ridiculous!  ::)

Edit: Some more playing around seems to indicate that the situation is still way more severe if the counter function is enabled: If statistics is active, I won't be able to enable sweeps and other more complex functions on channel 1! Moreover, the generator always reverts to sine waveform. When changing to square wave, duty cycle appears to be limited. I guess a major firmware fix is required from Rigol to set this straight! Shame, I thought Rigol this time got a half-way bug-free instument out but this seems to prove me wrong.
Very strange: After power cycling the instrument and reconfiguring the aformentioned setup, I wasn't able to reproduce my findings and the AWG appears to work as expected.  :-//
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 29, 2019, 03:59:28 pm
I played a bit more with mine DG811(DG922) and seem to have found that it has terrible voltage noise level. If  confirmed by others, it would indicate that 16 bit resolution is nothing but a marketing gimmick!

Here is the simple setup: 10Vpp (Hi-Z) sine wave at 1 kHz with 5 Vdc offset. So the bottom of the sine wave is at 0 V. Now zoom onto the bottom of the wave with an oscilloscope set to 50mV/div or 100 mV/div. Note that not all oscilloscopes can do it, it needs to have a good overload recovery. Among the ones I tried, Owon and Tek could zoom in, while Keysight and Micsig could not.
Here are a couple of pictures comparing the noise level  of DG811 (channel 1, top trace) with Agilent 33500 and with Rigol DG4162, both are much better than DG811.
I have mistakenly tested the noise level while adding extra noise using the waveform combine feature. See message below.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 29, 2019, 06:12:43 pm
I played a bit more with mine DG811(DG922) and seem to have found that it has terrible voltage noise level. If  confirmed by others, it would indicate that 16 bit resolution is nothing but a marketing gimmick!
I repeated your measurement using Siglent SDG2042x as a reference. The DG800's trace is displayed in yellow and the SDG2042x's trace is displayed in blue. I do not see any terrible noise level. Everything seems fine.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on May 29, 2019, 06:24:48 pm
@maxwell3e10 -

I replicated your tests with an ultra-low frequency square wave (since then the overdrive tolerance of the scope input isn't as relevant to the test) and found more or less similar noise figures for the DG811 and the DG4102, both averaging at round about 850µVRMS. Interestingly (but not unexpectedly), the output of the Siglent SDG6000X is much more noisy with figures round about 3.1mVRMS (bandwidth of at least 500MHz). The spectrum of the DG811 appears to be just white noise without the sampling filter drop at ~120MHz which leads to the assumption that the noise is really generated in the analog output section. I think adding screenshots doesn't make much sense since they look rather boring, the only important figure is the RMS measurement...

Since my Rigol scope isn't as tolerant to input overdrive than the model(s) you used, I cannot replicate your test with the sine wave output directly. And I'm too lazy to pull out the TEK2465 from the darkest corner of the basement for the test... ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 29, 2019, 07:08:48 pm
Duh! Yesterday I was playing with the feature of combining two waveforms on one channel and added noise to it, then forgot to turn it off! Thanks for checking it and setting me straight, TurboTom.

So now that I turned off extra noise, the noise level of DG811 is just a bit worse than Keysight 33500 (see below). It is very similar to the level of noise from DG4162.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 30, 2019, 02:45:25 am
Here is a more detailed comparison of the residual noise spectra for Keysight 33500B and DG811 generators. It is taken again near the bottom of the sine wave. I assume the noise rise around 200 kHz is due to switching noise of the ADC. So it appears that DG811 actually has less ADC noise while it has more analog broadband noise, but that can potentially be filtered out.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/?action=dlattach;attach=749862;image)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 30, 2019, 03:44:05 pm
With low pass filtering at 30 kHz using Micsig scope one can indeed see that DG811 (recorded on Ch 1) is quieter at low frequency than Keysight 33500B (Ch 2). This is recorded for a 0.1 Hz 10Vpp sine wave. I was hoping to see individual ADC steps, which should be equal to 0.15 mV for 16 bit ADC with 10V full range. But the noise is just a bit too high.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/?action=dlattach;attach=750462;image)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on May 30, 2019, 04:35:23 pm
With low pass filtering at 30 kHz using Micsig scope one can indeed see that DG811 (recorded on Ch 1) is quieter at low frequency than Keysight 33500B (Ch 2). This is recorded for a 0.1 Hz 10Vpp sine wave. I was hoping to see individual ADC steps, which should be equal to 0.15 mV for 16 bit ADC with 10V full range. But the noise is just a bit too high.
I have repeated your measurement using Rigol MSO5000 to display the sine-wave. You have to change vector-view to dot view. Then the individual ADC steps are visible.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 30, 2019, 05:15:30 pm
Yes, there are steps, but they are due to time discretization not ADC bits. Notice the step size is about 1 mV. Apparently Rigol used only 2^15 time steps in calculating the sine wave. Here are the measurements using DMM7510 with very slow frequency of 0.1 mHz. Near the top and bottom of the wave the signal is smooth. But on the slope one can see the time steps and even a glitch when the sine wave crosses zero.
Perhaps they can update the firmware, for a 16 bit generator one needs about 2^18 time steps. Otherwise, one can generate a arbitrary waveform with more points.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: geezer458 on May 30, 2019, 08:44:34 pm
Two things about this unit I do not like:

They advertise 250 MHz sampling for ARB or at least strongly imply that. In fact, ARBs that you load up as signed 16 bit integers are played out at a maximum rate of 60 MHz. If there is any trick to do this better I'd like to know it.

If you use external modulation it is filtered and then (apparently) sampled at 1 MHz and then digitally multiplied without interpolation, so unless you like ugly waveforms it's not really useful for anything above audio frequencies. I admit that the second item is a bit of an optimistic stretch on my part but it is (as usual) very misleading to state that the analog modulation has a BW of 1 MHz because that makes you think you could use it at 100 kHz and it would be OK. Not!

I don't think they understand what an arbitrary waveform is. They provide a bewildering array of strange waveforms that they made up from math functions and other stuff and you can select an arbitrary waveform from that group. And everything from that group has their 250 MSPS mumbo jumbo going on, but an actual arbitrary waveform is left out in the cold, so to speak.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 30, 2019, 09:08:11 pm
Welcome to the forum.  In the spec for DG800/900 it says the external modulation bandwidth is 50 kHz. For comparison 33500B has 100 kHz analog modulation bandwidth. I haven't tested that feature.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 31, 2019, 12:00:15 am
Yes, there are steps, but they are due to time discretization not ADC bits. Notice the step size is about 1 mV. Apparently Rigol used only 2^15 time steps in calculating the sine wave. Here are the measurements using DMM7510 with very slow frequency of 0.1 mHz. Near the top and bottom of the wave the signal is smooth. But on the slope one can see the time steps and even a glitch when the sine wave crosses zero.
Perhaps they can update the firmware, for a 16 bit generator one needs about 2^18 time steps. Otherwise, one can generate a arbitrary waveform with more points.

The step size is 200uV in his screenshot. I'm seeing 70uV as the lowest discrete step, which is a limitation of the oscilloscope (1mV * 10 / 255 = 40uV, close enough). To use a DMM makes more sense as you've done I think.

I can't see any noticeable difference between the MSO5000 internal generator (AD9744 14-bit), and the DG811 for sine wave (1kHz, 0.1Hz), in terms of noise, etc.

If I look at the horizontal time step, DG800 has a discrete step of 32us (15-bit as you've measured). Internal generator has a step of ~76us (14-bit) for 1Hz sine.
So might report to Rigol, see what they say.

edit: 8Mpts memory should be capable of 125ns division with a 1Hz signal. 1Mpts = 1us. So the limitation shouldn't be that memory, even if you half it for 2 channels. Could it be it takes long to load the memory?
edit2: sent info to rigol.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 31, 2019, 12:39:44 am
They advertise 250 MHz sampling for ARB or at least strongly imply that. In fact, ARBs that you load up as signed 16 bit integers are played out at a maximum rate of 60 MHz. If there is any trick to do this better I'd like to know it.

But it doesn't say 250MHz in the spec anywhere, its very clear:
https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-08a0/1/-/-/-/-/DG800%20Datasheet.pdf
https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-08a1/0/-/-/-/-/DG900%20Datasheet.pdf

240MHz frequency counter, 35MHz for sine, 20MHz for arbitrary waveform.

You will find the same advertising on Keysight and other generators, in terms of Msps figures.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: geezer458 on May 31, 2019, 04:53:28 pm
Thanks :)   I will own the fact that I didn't read every line of the DG900 datasheet I quote below in a jpeg attachment
(not sure how to make it inline). I think you could see why after viewing the imaged snippet that I was satisfied that I
could use the modulation feature at 100 kHz. There were duplicate sets of lines after that referencing Internal/External
and a 1 MHz BW over and over, and I had already read something about the input impedance in another place. I had
seen what I was looking for already and didn't find my way down to the "catch" where they say the BW is 50 kHz. I'm
not sure that I would like the results of modulation at 50 kHz either but at the end of the day I would agree that the
fault is mine. Caveat Emptor.

About the sampling, here is the content of the current advertisement on Amazon:

100MHz Function Generator, 2 Channel, 250MSa/sec, 16Bit Resolution, 16M Memory
100 MHz function / arbitrary waveform generator
16 Mpts memory depth per channel for arbitrary waveforms

and here is what is at the top of the data sheet mentioned by thm_w:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique SiFi II (Signal Fidelity II) technology: generate the arbitrary
waveforms point by point; recover the signal without distortion; sample
rate accurate and adjustable; jitter of all the output waveforms (including
Sine, Pulse, etc.) as low as 200 ps
16 Mpts memory depth per channel for arbitrary waveforms
Standard dual-channel with the same performance, equivalent to two
independent signal sources
...
Sample rate up to 250 MSa/s, vertical resolution 16 bits
Arbitrary waveform sequence editing function available; arbitrary
waveforms also can be generated through the PC software
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't remember, but I must have read the material below that and perhaps
wondered what they meant by:

Basic Waveforms Sine, Square, Ramp, Pulse, Noise, DC, Dual-tone
Advanced Waveforms PRBS, RS232, Sequence
Built-in Arbitrary Waveforms 160 types of waveforms, including Sinc, Exponential Rise, Exponential Fall, ECG, Gauss, HaverSine,
Lorentz, etc.
.....
Sequence 2 k to 60 MSa/s
Noise (-3 dB) 100 MHz bandwidth
Arbitrary Waveform 1 μHz to 15 MHz 1 μHz to 20 MHz 1 μHz to 20 MHz

It looked like what they meant by ARB waveform was their collection of functions so I chose, perhaps correctly,
to connect the 20 MHz limit with those things, believing that they referred to a limit for playing out predetermined
lists of points. And that may not be wrong.

What I should have understood is that, by their terminology what I was doing was an "Advanced" "Sequence"
to which the limit 2 k to 60 MSa/s applies.

Well, all right.

In the end, I made a generous interpretation based on the headlines and what I wanted it to be. I didn't call them
because it was likely to be a waste of time. Very few companies anymore let you talk to people who aren't reading
canned scripts. I have bought exactly two pieces of Rigol gear and was very favorably impressed with their capabilities
so this time when the item provided less value than I expected rather than more it made me unhappy.

Unfortunately I didn't know that there was a big thread about this unit before I bought it and I think reading that might
have stayed my hand. I am not a regular reader of EEVBLOG, shame on me!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 31, 2019, 05:09:35 pm
Edit: Added the screen shot of my sample rate test. I used an arbitrary waveform with as many steep edges as possible for that. The reason is that the "controlled edge technology" that Rigol calls "SiFi2" is not operational in Arb mode. This means, slopes are defined by just a single sample interval, also recognisable by the slightly faster rise/fall times and (even) more ringing. Now I selected a frequency at which the signal cannot be reproduced by full integers of the sampling frequency, resulting in edge jitter. I measured the time between the two traces that are shown when the scope "averages" over several scans and calculate the frequency which should resemble actual sample rate. And voila, 250MHz!
So it seems that it can output an arbitrary waveform at 250MHz, but I am not sure if its one of the pre-programmed ones, or a custom one.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on May 31, 2019, 06:30:39 pm
Here is another screenshot of the steps in sine wave. This is for a 1 Hz 20Vpp wave. DG811 is yellow, 33500B is blue. If I didn't know any better, I would say at first glance DG811 is not really a 16-bit sine wave, more like 13 bit. But it is due to 2^15 time steps. The Keysight has 4 times as many, 2^17 steps.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/?action=dlattach;attach=751467;image)

This affects only low-frequency sine signals. For frequencies above 7.6kHz one cannot output more than 2^15 steps anyway at 250MS/sec.  Still, generating high-fidelity signals in the audio band is something it should be capable of doing. So hopefully Rigol can address this with a firmware upgrade. Do you know who on this forum represents Rigol?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on May 31, 2019, 08:27:33 pm
This affects only low-frequency sine signals. For frequencies above 7.6kHz one cannot output more than 2^15 steps anyway at 250MS/sec.  Still, generating high-fidelity signals in the audio band is something it should be capable of doing. So hopefully Rigol can address this with a firmware upgrade. Do you know who on this forum represents Rigol?

Oh good point I didn't consider the frequency aspect of that. No one on this forum represents Rigol, but I have updated my case that it would only effect lower frequencies (250M/32768 = 7.6kHz).

They must have something in the software already to decimate the 15-bit calculations when outputting, say a 30MHz sine right? So hopefully its not too hard to add.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on June 01, 2019, 12:17:35 am
Response:

Quote
The 16 bit refers always to the voltage levels not the time base.

The DG800 has a variable time base in reality. The standard waveform functions like sine wave have a standard about 32K length to the table that defines them. This is much deeper that our other instruments actually.

The way we talk about what you are asking about is really memory depth. The memory depth of the standard waves varies from 9000 or so up to what you are seeing. But the arb mode enables waves as deep as 8 Million points. So, you can create a 1 Hz signal that changes every 125 nanoseconds if you need.

Sounds like they store all of the pre-computed waveforms in flash (faster to load?).
So I don't expect an improvement to be made here. If we need a better signal, we have to create it in Arb. timber23's GUI could be modified to load a high-res ARB version, instead of using the internal waveform, for example.

Keysight 33500B is ~$3,400 btw, even most expensive DG992 is only $1000. I guess its asking for a bit much.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on June 01, 2019, 05:57:40 am
I think the problem comes when you need a sine wave with an odd frequency, like 7 Hz, that is not a multiple of the clock rate. I am not sure if the arbitrary wave has the Si-Fi interpolation, so one ends up with some time jitter.

A used Keysight 33500B is about $1200, so the "upgrade" path is the only way that DG800 makes sense.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on June 03, 2019, 02:35:06 pm
Here is a comparison of DG811 (yellow Ch1) with DG4162 (blue Ch2) outputing 20Vpp, 1 Hz sine wave.
One can see that DG4162 uses 2^16 time steps. Even though it is has a 14-bit ADC, the steps are smaller than in DG811.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/?action=dlattach;attach=754086)
Its funny that so far every generator (DG811, 33500B, DG4162) I looked at has a glitch when the sine wave crosses zero. Why can't anyone program a sine wave without a bug.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on June 03, 2019, 02:49:26 pm
Its funny that so far every generator (DG811, 33500B, DG4162) I looked at has a glitch when the sine wave crosses zero. Why can't anyone program a sine wave without a bug.

Maybe the problem it's not on the DG's side...  ::)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wolfgang on June 03, 2019, 04:30:17 pm
... just curious, is there also a comparison with Rigols 1062Z somewhere ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Sighound36 on June 03, 2019, 05:56:43 pm
Sorry if this sounds a tad simple, why not just upgrade the clock and localized decoupling as the unit is only a few hundred $ maybe that way the software may have less to re assemble at its critical point? or is that just to pie in the sky?

On the 822 unit we have, happy to undertake the work on this.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on June 03, 2019, 09:55:22 pm
Sorry if this sounds a tad simple, why not just upgrade the clock and localized decoupling as the unit is only a few hundred $ maybe that way the software may have less to re assemble at its critical point? or is that just to pie in the sky?

On the 822 unit we have, happy to undertake the work on this.

Please explain further, upgrade which clock and decoupling to improve what? I don't think digital decoupling will change anything here.
If a better reference clock is needed, then you can feed 10MHz into the back of the instrument.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on June 04, 2019, 09:28:24 pm
Added all DG800 SCPI commands here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lists-of-rigol-scpi-commands/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lists-of-rigol-scpi-commands/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on June 04, 2019, 10:23:34 pm
Added all DG800 SCPI commands here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lists-of-rigol-scpi-commands/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lists-of-rigol-scpi-commands/)

Thanks, I  put the "hidden" commands from your list in that thread.

Some of the interesting ones (response on the right):
:PROJect:PWM:FREQuency? -> '2'
:PROJect:PWM:FINe:CH? -> '0.000'
:PROJect:PWM:LEVel:CH? -> '0.000'

Ones that can only be written:
:PROJect:KEY
:PROJect:DAC:AMP:CH
:PROJect:DAC:OFFSet:CH
:PROJect:MODE
:PROJect:SN

Calibration stuff (I can't read anything back, seems like its just write commands?)

:SOURce<n>:CALibration:RANGNUM
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:SETVALUE
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:MEASVALUE
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:STORE
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:RECALL
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:PRESet
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:DATE
:SOURce<n>:CALibration:HIGHest

Unsure if any of the PROJ commands other than MODEl need a USB key inserted to work.
edit: guide is here (https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-08a6/0/-/-/-/-/DG800_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf) btw, I'm impressed that there are ~470 SCPI commands/queries.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on June 09, 2019, 01:10:56 pm
Here are some time jitter std. measurements for a square wave. Both function generators are locked to the oven clock of the HP53310A. DG811 works reasonably well until one gets to low frequencies.

              33500B   DG811
10 Hz         56 ps     396 ps
100 Hz        45 ps      58 ps
10 MHz        42 ps      40 ps

10.1 Hz      292 ps     924 ps
100.1 Hz     107 ps     509 ps

7 MHz        104 ps     147 ps
15 MHz        52 ps     134 ps
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 08, 2019, 11:47:47 pm
Can anyone please make a video showing how to "hack" a DG8XX to a DG992 as I've been reading the instructions posted on here and it's like I'm reading Chinese  :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on July 09, 2019, 01:25:31 am
Can anyone please make a video showing how to "hack" a DG8XX to a DG992 as I've been reading the instructions posted on here and it's like I'm reading Chinese  :palm:

So where are you running into issues with tv84s post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391), let us know:

- Have you tried creating the USB key (1GB or larger)?
- Did you download HxD or dd program attempt to modify the drive?
- Do you know how to send SCPI commands to the instrument?

Someone posted a USB image file but can't find the post at the moment.

edit here is the image post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2475702/#msg2475702 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2475702/#msg2475702)
beware it will re-partition the USB drive to ~32MB (but can be undone with diskpart -> clean in windows if needed).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 09, 2019, 09:37:39 am
Can anyone please make a video showing how to "hack" a DG8XX to a DG992 as I've been reading the instructions posted on here and it's like I'm reading Chinese  :palm:

So where are you running into issues with tv84s post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391), let us know:

- Have you tried creating the USB key (1GB or larger)?
- Did you download HxD or dd program attempt to modify the drive?
- Do you know how to send SCPI commands to the instrument?

Someone posted a USB image file but can't find the post at the moment.

I have a 64 GB flash drive that is formated as NTFS is this correct or does it need to be FAT32?
I did download HxD but I have no clue how to use it or what to modify in the drive.
I have no idea how to send SCPI commands. I'm assuming those will be sent through the back USB port?

The instructions aren't clear for someone who's never had a crack at this type of thing.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on July 09, 2019, 09:05:58 pm
Bought a cheap adapter and it works OK: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html) (check out the text on the front)
Chipset is 8152B, so part of the drivers mentioned earlier in this thread.

The clearance across the isolation gap is not very good. Shouldn't matter much for this use.

I have a 64 GB flash drive that is formated as NTFS is this correct or does it need to be FAT32?
I did download HxD but I have no clue how to use it or what to modify in the drive.
I have no idea how to send SCPI commands. I'm assuming those will be sent through the back USB port?

The instructions aren't clear for someone who's never had a crack at this type of thing.

No it should be FAT32, I would recommend finding an older smaller USB key if you have one but that might work.
- Download HxD, run the program, select Tools -> Open Disk -> uncheck "open as readonly" at the bottom -> Select the USB drive (make sure it says Removable Disk as type) and click OK
- At the top where it says Sector, enter 2000000 and press enter
- Copy the magic bytes from tv84's sardinha bin file (0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE), on the top select Edit and then "Paste write"
- Click Save
- Eject USB key
- Plug USB key into back of instrument, it will show the USB symbol in the top right if its detected. You can see if the drive can be opened in the DG800 menu if you like as well, but it won't indicate if it is the magic key or not.

You can send SCPI commands with USB on the back port yes, or ethernet with adapter.

https://hackaday.com/2016/11/16/how-to-control-your-instruments-from-a-computer-its-easier-than-you-think/ (https://hackaday.com/2016/11/16/how-to-control-your-instruments-from-a-computer-its-easier-than-you-think/)
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/instruments-drivers-vs.-plain-scpi-commands_231246.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/instruments-drivers-vs.-plain-scpi-commands_231246.html)
https://github.com/eez-open/studio (https://github.com/eez-open/studio) (only works with ethernet)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 09, 2019, 10:42:00 pm
Slightly off-topic, but I have been looking for a small VISA implementation to send SCPI commands over USB. How many MB of code does it take to tell the computer to send an ASCII string over USB?
R&S have a 30 MB VISA implementation
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/3-visa-and-tools_231388.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/3-visa-and-tools_231388.html)
which is better than Tektronix and Keysight, that seem to be around 100 MB.

Does anyone know any other simple stand-alone VISA application?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 09, 2019, 11:17:43 pm
Bought a cheap adapter and it works OK: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html) (check out the text on the front)
Chipset is 8152B, so part of the drivers mentioned earlier in this thread.

The clearance across the isolation gap is not very good. Shouldn't matter much for this use.

I have a 64 GB flash drive that is formated as NTFS is this correct or does it need to be FAT32?
I did download HxD but I have no clue how to use it or what to modify in the drive.
I have no idea how to send SCPI commands. I'm assuming those will be sent through the back USB port?

The instructions aren't clear for someone who's never had a crack at this type of thing.

No it should be FAT32, I would recommend finding an older smaller USB key if you have one but that might work.
- Download HxD, run the program, select Tools -> Open Disk -> uncheck "open as readonly" at the bottom -> Select the USB drive (make sure it says Removable Disk as type) and click OK
- At the top where it says Sector, enter 2000000 and press enter
- Copy the magic bytes from tv84's sardinha bin file (0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE), on the top select Edit and then "Paste write"
- Click Save
- Eject USB key
- Plug USB key into back of instrument, it will show the USB symbol in the top right if its detected. You can see if the drive can be opened in the DG800 menu if you like as well, but it won't indicate if it is the magic key or not.

You can send SCPI commands with USB on the back port yes, or ethernet with adapter.

https://hackaday.com/2016/11/16/how-to-control-your-instruments-from-a-computer-its-easier-than-you-think/ (https://hackaday.com/2016/11/16/how-to-control-your-instruments-from-a-computer-its-easier-than-you-think/)
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/instruments-drivers-vs.-plain-scpi-commands_231246.html (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/driver-pages/remote-control/instruments-drivers-vs.-plain-scpi-commands_231246.html)
https://github.com/eez-open/studio (https://github.com/eez-open/studio) (only works with ethernet)

Thanks for that quite helpful!

I was able to edit the USB as mentioned above and the USB icon showed up on the main screen of my DG811 but I'm confused about why anyone would need a USB to Ethernet adapter as it doesnt have a LAN port  :-//

Anyway, since I only have a windows PC and that link seems to be for raspberry Pi, how to I send the commands via USB connected to my PC?

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 09, 2019, 11:29:25 pm
Anyway, since I only have a windows PC and that link seems to be for raspberry Pi, how to I send the commands via USB connected to my PC?
Download R&S VISA (see link above) and use their Tester tool to send the commands
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 11, 2019, 09:53:41 pm
I found this minimalistic USBTMC implementation with a windows command-line interface:
https://github.com/xyphro/WinUsbTmc

I installed the driver and it recognizes the device is connected, but so far I haven't been able to make it work.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 13, 2019, 11:18:25 am
Anyway, since I only have a windows PC and that link seems to be for raspberry Pi, how to I send the commands via USB connected to my PC?
Download R&S VISA (see link above) and use their Tester tool to send the commands

I did but have no idea how to use the software.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 13, 2019, 11:54:42 am
Start Tester 32 bit, go find resources menu and click find resource. The generator should show up as USB:...
Then click on it and click connect. In the text window on the right type *IDN?\n, click query and  see if it responds. If not, go to Choose visa implementation menu and try different options then disconnect and connect again. Once it responds to *IDN?\n command, then you can execute other commands.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 13, 2019, 02:14:22 pm
Start Tester 32 bit, go find resources menu and click find resource. The generator should show up as USB:...
Then click on it and click connect. In the text window on the right type *IDN?\n, click query and  see if it responds. If not, go to Choose visa implementation menu and try different options then disconnect and connect again. Once it responds to *IDN?\n command, then you can execute other commands.

Ok so I was able to configure the software to get a response from my DG811.

Now what's the next step to convert it into a DG992?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 13, 2019, 02:57:13 pm
Now you are just one step away! Send

:PROJ:MODE DG992\n

and then restart the generator.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 13, 2019, 03:26:15 pm
Now you are just one step away! Send

:PROJ:MODE DG992\n

and then restart the generator.

I tried that but nothing happened still showing DG811 :wtf:

I must be missing a step what about that DG800_sardinha.bin file? Surely I must have used it somewhere but didn't.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 13, 2019, 03:29:42 pm
You should. Read my procedure, can't be simpler.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 13, 2019, 03:41:00 pm
You should. Read my procedure, can't be simpler.

I did but it is not clear.

I formatted the USB with HxD and moved the bin file to it.

Then I sent the :PROJ:MODE DG992 command in Tester 32bit application and restarted the device but nothing changed.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: drummerdimitri on July 13, 2019, 04:06:07 pm
Nevermind.

I tried editing the drive's signature a second time with HxD and it worked this time  :-DD

Thanks for the free upgrade tv84  :clap:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on July 13, 2019, 04:27:18 pm
Nice that you could figure it out. :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 12, 2019, 09:18:54 am
I've just bought a DG-811. Software version 00.01.09.00.00

Can anyone confirm they have upgraded a unit with this software version?  I'm wondering if the door has been closed.

After reading the instructions carefully and many attempts I have been unable to upgrade my unit.

I have tried different sized usb drives.  I have formatted a 2GB, FAT32, 512mB sector size and used HxD to write the string at sector 2,000,000. The drive is recognised when plugged into the DG811. I send the ":PROJ:MODE DG992" using Ultra Sigma connected by usb. I get return code 0 and no upgrade after power cycle.

I have also tried a 8GB drive formatted with default sector size.  All this on Windows laptop.
Any suggestions?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 12, 2019, 09:25:10 am
Format the USB disk in Linux to FAT32 and do the sector writing in Linux, as explained. Forget Windows, for now.

Report the results.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 12, 2019, 10:21:35 am
Format the USB disk in Linux to FAT32 and do the sector writing in Linux, as explained. Forget Windows, for now.

Report the results.

Ok. Formatted the usb drive on linux as vfat type b and put a file system on it and then

dd if=/home/nick/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512 seek=2000000
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
8 bytes copied, 0.00547345 s, 1.5 kB/s

The dg811 mounts the drive ok. When I send :PROJ:MODE DG992 via Ultra Sigma I get (Return Count:0) as a reply. And after power cycle still no upgrade.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 12, 2019, 11:42:02 pm
The dg811 mounts the drive ok. When I send :PROJ:MODE DG992 via Ultra Sigma I get (Return Count:0) as a reply. And after power cycle still no upgrade.

You can see my post above where I recommend not using Ultra Sigma to send the command. I'm not certain if it works or not, but the program is quite bad IMO. Try something else and please let us know.

Otherwise we have to wait until FW 00.01.09.00.00 has been uploaded.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ogden on August 13, 2019, 07:24:45 am
You can see my post above where I recommend not using Ultra Sigma to send the command.

I can confirm that I failed with Ultra Sigma as well. What could be that "something else" that works under Windows.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 13, 2019, 09:03:38 pm
I can confirm that I failed with Ultra Sigma as well. What could be that "something else" that works under Windows.

pycharm + pyvisa (https://pyvisa.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)
NI-Visa (https://www.ni.com/en-rs/support/downloads/drivers/download.ni-visa.html)
R&S Visa (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/ca/applications/r-s-visa-application-note_56280-148812.html)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 13, 2019, 09:45:24 pm
Thanks everyone for your interest and help.

I had another go last night with R&S Visa 5.8.5. for Windows.  DG-811 connect by USB.  I was able to change the display brightness ok which I did as a test that the instrument was accepting commands. But still no luck upgrading the model.

If anyone has been able to upgrade an instrument with 00.01.09.00.00 firmware it would be nice to know that.

If firmware 00.01.09.00.00 is known to work, it seems to me there must be something very pedantic about the preparation of the usb drive that I have missed.

Or does the DG-811 have to be set to a certain screen or mode before sending :PROJ:MODE DG992\n ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 13, 2019, 10:03:16 pm
Thanks everyone for your interest and help.

I had another go last night with R&S Visa 5.8.5. for Windows.  DG-811 connect by USB.  I was able to change the display brightness ok which I did as a test that the instrument was accepting commands. But still no luck upgrading the model.

If anyone has been able to upgrade an instrument with 00.01.09.00.00 firmware it would be nice to know that.

If firmware 00.01.09.00.00 is known to work, it seems to me there must be something very pedantic about the preparation of the usb drive that I have missed.

Or does the DG-811 have to be set to a certain screen or mode before sending :PROJ:MODE DG992\n ?

No it doesn't need to be in a certain screen mode. I had it in the info screen, to see the model number. Thats good that you tested commands are working. But its basically impossible to test that the "rigol key" is working as expected, without the PROJ command actually working, which is tough.

You are the first person to report 00.01.09.00.00 firmware so no, its not "known to work". You could consider trying to downgrade the firmware, 00.01.08.00.01 is available on the rigol site: https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/. (https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/.)
There may be some small risk to doing this, and you won't be able to go back to 09 FW until its released, but most likely if there is any problem it will be that rigol blocked ability to downgrade FW.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on August 14, 2019, 12:20:58 am
Format the USB disk in Linux to FAT32 and do the sector writing in Linux, as explained. Forget Windows, for now.

Report the results.

Ok. Formatted the usb drive on linux as vfat type b and put a file system on it and then

dd if=/home/nick/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512 seek=2000000
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
8 bytes copied, 0.00547345 s, 1.5 kB/s

The dg811 mounts the drive ok. When I send :PROJ:MODE DG992 via Ultra Sigma I get (Return Count:0) as a reply. And after power cycle still no upgrade.

Note the highlighted items in red, above. Might make a difference.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 14, 2019, 02:27:42 am
Format the USB disk in Linux to FAT32 and do the sector writing in Linux, as explained. Forget Windows, for now.

Report the results.

Ok. Formatted the usb drive on linux as vfat type b and put a file system on it and then

dd if=/home/nick/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512 seek=2000000
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
8 bytes copied, 0.00547345 s, 1.5 kB/s

The dg811 mounts the drive ok. When I send :PROJ:MODE DG992 via Ultra Sigma I get (Return Count:0) as a reply. And after power cycle still no upgrade.

Note the highlighted items in red, above. Might make a difference.

That was a fairly hurried reply to tv84 in response to a suggested action.

A better reply would have been that I created on the usb drive, with fdisk, a partition of type b and then created a FAT32 file system on that.  I have subsequently tried both active and non-active partitions and also a FAT filesystem. And then after those actions copied DG800_sardinha.bin to the correct sector.

This is the first time I've used VISA to control instruments, so I'm going to go back through all the instructions to see if I am overlookng something simple.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on August 14, 2019, 04:34:22 am
Ah, OK. Bummer. I was hoping that would've gotten you success.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 14, 2019, 05:26:09 am
Tried everything again with no luck.  Attached are the first 2 sectors of my formatted usb stick. Maybe that could be the problem. Can someone with a good stick compare to this file.

Or better still, post you sectors and I will write to my stick.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 14, 2019, 09:14:59 am
Ash,

Why are you showing the 1st 2 sectors of your disk?

Remember the bytes are written at (almost) the 1GB mark. BTW, are you using a +1GB capacity disk?

Have you tried a partition type 0C ?   

Have you tried with another USB disk?

As last resource, go to windows, remove the partition. Create a new partition (default values). Go to debian. Format it FAT32. Do the sector insertion.

You can easily test the sector reading, as the DG does it. I don't have here the command but I can post.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 14, 2019, 10:17:07 am
Thanks for your questions.  I like your work.  I'll answer in  order.

1. Several posts in this thread and your questions are about the stick.  Old stick, another stick, how it was partitioned, FAT32 etc. Created under linux or windows.
Reading through the posts:
It didn't work, a different stick, and then it worked.  No clear explanation.  You get my thinking?  Nothing definitive.  It's a long time since I looked at boot sectors, volume labels, FAT tables etc.
But looking in the first sector is "ëX.mkfs.fat", volume label, etc. Are those fields (except the FAT table ) the same for every utility on different systems that are used to create the stick?  I don't know.

2. I've confirmed that the bytes are written at sector 2,000,000 on a 2 Gb stick.

3.  Yes.  I tried that today.

4.  Not really.  I started out with 2 x 8GB sticks that didn't work and managed to find a 2GB stick.  I can't find another old small one.  So see 1. above.

5.  Sort of the same as above.  What is that trying to achieve?  It's like we are not sure what is going on.  I'd like to help.

Is it possible that before the DG-811 even looks for the bytes at sector 2,000,000, it expects a volume label, text string from creation  utility, come what may, etc etc in first 2 sectors.  On my stick all sectors above the first 2 are 00 until 2,000,000

"You can easily test the sector reading, as the DG does it. I don't have here the command but I can post."  Yes. That could help.

I am suspicious that I seem I can't get this to work on the new firmware.  If anyone has managed to achieve this on firmware 00.01.09.00.00 I'd be really pleased to know.

But it does seem that many are struggling with the usb stick and I'd like to help get to the bottom of that.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 14, 2019, 10:42:37 am
Don't use:

:PROJ:MODE DG992\n

Use just:

:PROJ:MODE DG992

I think I have done this.

Within Rigol Ultra Sigma, -> SCPI command -> Advanced (drop box) -> Options is an EOL sequence.  "\n" is one of 4 options.  So within Ulra Sigma I have sent ":PROJ:MODE DG992" which will be appended by "\n".  It's not possible to send without an EOL sequence.

I don't see similar option within RsVisa so have tried both ":PROJ:MODE DG992" and ":PROJ:MODE DG992\n".  No upgrade either way.

Within both Ultra Sigma and RsVisa I can send ":DISP:BRIG 1" and ":DISP:BRIG 100" to set the display brightness.

What I haven't done is send commands to the DG-811 outside those 2 packages.  I need to do more work before I can use pyVisa under linux.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 14, 2019, 11:26:44 am
I also don't like to insist on the USB thing...  :)

I've tried multiple time in this forum that people start documenting the USB disks with controller, etc info. But to no avail... There are multiple FWs that use some (direct access) sector reading functions that may or may not work in certain conditions.

From what you have said it seems the prob may be in new FW. That's easy to check once I get my hands on it.

The only thing that comes to mind about the sector writing in HxD is if you are using logical or absolute sectors... That's why I prefer to tell people to use the Linux command.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 14, 2019, 11:35:46 am
Thanks for reply.

All my recent tests are using your linux command modified for my file locations.  I have only checked with HxD to see if bytes are present.

I extracted the first 2 sectors from my stick with: dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/home/nick/Downloads/DG800/sectors.hex count=2

Can you provide first 2 sectors of known good usb stick?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 14, 2019, 12:52:46 pm
Not at home.

Do this and see if the first 8 bytes are the sardinha.bin:

dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=block.bin skip=2000000 count=1
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 15, 2019, 04:51:57 am
Not at home.

Do this and see if the first 8 bytes are the sardinha.bin:

dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=block.bin skip=2000000 count=1

Upload utility won't accept block.bin so block.hex.

Attachment is the result of your command on usb drive prepared with linux that I have been using to try to upgrade.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 15, 2019, 08:55:41 pm
Attachment is the result of your command on usb drive prepared with linux that I have been using to try to upgrade.

As you can see, the block is correctly written. If it's not your VISA stuff, it's the FW that has changed.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 15, 2019, 09:27:27 pm
Attachment is the result of your command on usb drive prepared with linux that I have been using to try to upgrade.

As you can see, the block is correctly written. If it's not your VISA stuff, it's the FW that has changed.

Yes I agree.

I am trying to locate a usb to lan adapter so I can provide the information you requested by PM. The ones that are readily available are based on Axis AX88772 chipset. Looking at your post of kernel modules earlier in the thread, there is only a Realtek rtl8152 driver so I guess the adapter must be based on that chipset.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 15, 2019, 09:41:15 pm
I am trying to locate a usb to lan adapter so I can provide the information you requested by PM. The ones that are readily available are based on Axis AX88772 chipset. Looking at your post of kernel modules earlier in the thread, there is only a Realtek rtl8152 driver so I guess the adapter must be based on that chipset.

This one works:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2429370/#msg2429370 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2429370/#msg2429370)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on August 15, 2019, 10:12:24 pm
There are several adapters, also the "el-cheapo"-ones (https://www.ebay.de/itm/USB2-0-to-Ethernet-RJ45-Female-Network-LAN-Adapter-Card-100Mbps-8152-Chip-no-CD/283413991087?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3Dba30545613d8401f8e336b6ff8ce9f8c%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D253643341083%26itm%3D283413991087%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109) that work. Some of the cheapest ones aren't equipped with isolating transformers.

The funny thing is, some only get recognized by the DG800/900 after an active LAN cable is plugged in. After that, no problem (...only found this out after having bought three different ones -- altogether still a lot cheaper than the one Rigol offers...).

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on August 15, 2019, 10:20:54 pm
If it's not your VISA stuff, it's the FW that has changed.
You could use my Python script to send the SCPI command to switch mode.
(https://i.imgur.com/pHGgjAD.png)
Necessary files are attached.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on August 15, 2019, 10:43:47 pm
I can confirm that this GoojoDoq adapter works: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32945323919.html) It is only $3.57 and was delivered within 4 weeks. It was sugested by someone here in the forum.

The el-cheapo ones I tryed so far did not work. I mean white LAN adapters with realtek chipset. Even with active LAN connected to it, it didn't work.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 16, 2019, 06:11:01 am
There are several adapters, also the "el-cheapo"-ones (https://www.ebay.de/itm/USB2-0-to-Ethernet-RJ45-Female-Network-LAN-Adapter-Card-100Mbps-8152-Chip-no-CD/283413991087?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3Dba30545613d8401f8e336b6ff8ce9f8c%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D253643341083%26itm%3D283413991087%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109) that work. Some of the cheapest ones aren't equipped with isolating transformers.

The funny thing is, some only get recognized by the DG800/900 after an active LAN cable is plugged in. After that, no problem (...only found this out after having bought three different ones -- altogether still a lot cheaper than the one Rigol offers...).

Cheers,
Thomas

I'm glad I read your post before going to the local computer shop.  I took the DG811 with me and would probably have rejected the adapter I bought if I hadn't known to plug onto an active cable.

And you also can't "Apply" the network settings if the cable is not connected.

This usb to lan adapter works fine. https://en.j5create.com/products/jue125 (https://en.j5create.com/products/jue125)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 18, 2019, 07:19:46 pm
Bump.
Has anyone with a recently purchased unit with firmware 00.01.09.00.00 been able to upgrade?  Care to share your experience?

Has anyone stumbled upon the root password?  I've tried the obvious ones.

It's not possible to downgrade to 00.01.08.00.01 which is available from rigolna.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 19, 2019, 09:00:39 pm
No luck logging in with "root" or "sshd".

I presume the passwd and shadow files are from a DGxxx firmware 00.01.08 or lower.  The shadow file shows that all accounts except root are disabled. (* in second field) Root has no password ("root::") but that has obviously changed.

I don't understand the significance of the ssh directory.  How does that help?  How do those keys help?

All and any help appreciated.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 19, 2019, 10:53:04 pm
All and any help appreciated.

Try performing the downgrade by powering on and hitting the 'Help/Local' button to get to the low level tool.
Does it still block it?

edit: got an interesting screen with two options in Chinese, during boot, not sure what it said. Need to try to get that to show up again.
edit2: port 22 SSH, port 111 rpcbind, port 5555 freeciv.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on August 19, 2019, 11:53:22 pm
I presume the passwd and shadow files are from a DGxxx firmware 00.01.08 or lower.
I don't understand the significance of the ssh directory.  How does that help?  How do those keys help?
I have version 00.01.08.00.01 and I have no luck trying to log in with root and no password using SSH.

The ssh directory includes the authorized_keys. It is the public key of a PC which is allowed to log in, using its private key without password. Because the private key is unknown, the public key doesn't help.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 19, 2019, 11:58:21 pm
Did your instrument ship with 00.01.08.00.01?  Were you able to upgrade using the procedure earlier in the thread?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on August 20, 2019, 12:05:11 am
Did your instrument ship with 00.01.08.00.01?  Were you able to upgrade using the procedure earlier in the thread?
Yes. I did no update, since I received the device. Yes, I created an USB drive with the magic bytes and upgraded from DG811 to DG992.

This is how my "Info" screen looks like:
(https://i.imgur.com/TKvDeky.png)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 20, 2019, 12:11:27 am
Reading through the thread, some members seem to have trouble with the key, which they resolved, and also sending the ":PROJ:MODE DG912". which they resolved.

Can you share by what method your key was formatted and the package used to send the :PROJ command?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 20, 2019, 12:56:26 am
All and any help appreciated.

Try performing the downgrade by powering on and hitting the 'Help/Local' button to get to the low level tool.
Does it still block it?

edit: got an interesting screen with two options in Chinese, during boot, not sure what it said. Need to try to get that to show up again.

I've tried several things with the 'Help/Local' key but I can't bring up low level screen.

If I put a usb drive with firmware 00.01.08.00.01 in the instrument with the Help screen showing, it loads and I get a dialog with 'Detects the upgrade file, upgrade? Touch 'OK' .  Waiting dialog box and then eventually returns to home screen. Upgrade dialog reappears. No downgrade.

EDIT.  Ok. Got to a low level screen in English. Keep pushing 'Help/Local' key when initial RIGOL appears onscreen, before progress bar appears.
No usb installed: 'Not found images...'    Instrument stopped, need to power off.
Usb installed:  'Upgrade from usb disk. Reading...'  wait and then  'ERROR: bad script!'   Instrument stopped.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 20, 2019, 08:19:34 am
I'm going to declare that the hack is closed or changed in firmware version 00.01.09.00.00
At least until the clever people can get hold of the firmware and take a look at it.

It is not possible to downgrade to 00.01.08.00.01 which is known to work and available at rigolna.

I've tried a 2gb and 8gb usb sticks formatted FAT32 with the magic bytes at the correct location.  I've tried sending the the SCPI command by 2 different Windows packages and most recent  using Python under linux. Code snippet below.

>>> rigol = rm.open_resource('USB0::6833::1603::DG8Axxxxxxxxx::0::INSTR')  (xxxxxxxxx is serial no.)
>>> rigol.write(':DISP:BRIG 1')
(28, <StatusCode.success: 0>)
>>> rigol.write(':DISP:BRIG 100')
(28, <StatusCode.success: 0>)

Insert key, waiting dialogue appears, wait

>>> rigol.write(':PROJ:MODE DG992')
(32, <StatusCode.success: 0>)
Power off, remove key, power up.

The 2 DISP strings are just sent to confirm the DG811 is receiving commands by dimming then brightening the display. Then insert key, and after waiting for dialogue box to disappear, send PROJ command.  Then power down and up.
Unfortunately, no upgrade.

Happy to help from here on.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 20, 2019, 08:40:45 am
Root password is:

Code: [Select]
root:$6$KRD.PxZVpASx$V15pbKoUrwRvuPgiX8hegJD9uD3NbLllV6NDiH/A48Es4z9.pc40LGilqSEJifwwxwDKt1rn7yyW//Npp6Oi90:10933:0:99999:7:::
Anyone can break it?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 20, 2019, 10:30:39 pm
SSH version info:

ssh dropbear_2016.74 kippo honeypot
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-15806/product_id-33536/version_id-214300/Dropbear-Ssh-Project-Dropbear-Ssh-2016.74.html (https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-15806/product_id-33536/version_id-214300/Dropbear-Ssh-Project-Dropbear-Ssh-2016.74.html)

I'm not sure how hard it is to exploit this vulnerability?

'root' is an SSH user, but 'sshd' is not showing as an accessible user. 'Rigol201' was the MSO5000 root password but thats not working here.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on August 20, 2019, 11:42:09 pm
Dialogue box,"Detects the upgrade file, upgrade?" OK.
Rotating wait graphic, which stops and a relay click from the DG811, then after a further short delay waiting dialogue box disappears.  No apparent change in status.  No upgrade after power cycle.
Edit: Just tried to ssh with root. Still no access.

Did you try the GEL then SSH without a power cycle? I'm assuming here the GEL is making a temporary modification.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 21, 2019, 01:04:41 am
It seems we need to get down and dirty with the ssh thing. I'll try some GEL packs in the coming days.

Ashdash, try this GEL.
I'm new at this.  I'd don't see any option to attach files to a private message and how do you move files about over the 5k limit?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 21, 2019, 10:06:14 am
From analysis of the v00.01.09.00.00 app, I can confirm that the new FW version changes the previous method of changing Model.

The USB signature (sardinha.bin) is now placed in the last reserved sector of the USB disk and is XXTEA encrypted.

So, for those who have v00.01.09.00.00, you can write the file DG800_sardinha_v2.bin in the last reserved sector of a USB disk and use the usual SCPI command, as explained previously. Preferably disks with size smaller than 2GB!!


Here's also a small .GEL so that everyone can backup their NAND.  (It takes some minutes to run since it is 512 MBytes long.)

EDIT: Although this method with v2 would work, Rigol also disabled the :PROJ:MODE command in v00.01.09.00.00. So, now, a new command :PROJ:MODF must be used to change Model and this one doesn't use the same sector verification method.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 22, 2019, 08:31:17 am
Thanks again for your help.  The backup GEL worked fine.
But I still can't upgrade.

I have used python to send the SCPI string, doing the display test first.

Just to clarify where the sector should be written:

fsck.fat 4.1 (2017-01-24)
Checking we can access the last sector of the filesystem
Boot sector contents:
System ID "mkfs.fat"
Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk)
       512 bytes per logical sector
      4096 bytes per cluster
        32 reserved sectors
First FAT starts at byte 16384 (sector 32)
         2 FATs, 32 bit entries
   1921024 bytes per FAT (= 3752 sectors)
Root directory start at cluster 2 (arbitrary size)
Data area starts at byte 3858432 (sector 7536)
    480082 data clusters (1966415872 bytes)
62 sectors/track, 61 heads
      2048 hidden sectors
   3848192 sectors total
Checking for unused clusters.
Checking free cluster summary.

32 reserved sectors so I did dd if=/home/xxxx/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha_v2.bin of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512 seek=31
No luck.
I thought maybe it should be before the data sector so then tried dd if=/home/xxxx/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha_v2.bin of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512 seek=7535
No luck
 And I have tried also with an 8GB usb drive adjusting the seek to the appropriate values.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 22, 2019, 12:48:54 pm
For reserved sectors access, you must use sdb not sdb1. Sdb1 is the logical volume.
Reformatted drive and put a fat32 file system on it again.

Snippet from fdisk.
Using default response p.
Partition number (1-4, default 1):
First sector (2048-3850239, default 2048):
Last sector, +/-sectors or +/-size{K,M,G,T,P} (2048-3850239, default 3850239):

Then dd if=/home/xxxx/Downloads/DG800/DG800_sardinha_v2.bin of=/dev/sdb bs=512 seek=2047

And I've inspected the disk and confirmed "DG800_sardinha_v2" is written immediately in front of the logical volume stuff.

I tried the upgrade procedure again but still no luck.  But is "DG800_sardinha_v2" in the correct location now?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 22, 2019, 12:53:57 pm
Use fat16.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on August 22, 2019, 01:05:10 pm
Use fat16.
Same result.  No upgrade. The disk sectors don't look any different with fat16 (type 6 in fdisk).  2048 is the default and lowest value for the first sector.

Edit.  Just spotted a type 4  FAT16 <32M  in the fdisk types.  I'll try that.
Edit. Same result unfortunately.  Sectoring looks the same. Lowest sector for partition 2048.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on September 03, 2019, 04:10:30 am
Hi all,

I'm not sure so, as i understand the  DG800 hack is not possible anymore with new firmware ( 00.01.09.00.00)
as Ashdash latest attempts ? Somebody could confirm this or not ?
Regards.

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on September 03, 2019, 02:51:39 pm

Ok, thank you for the answer  tv84.
So i will follow the thread with patience.  :D
Regards

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Alfons on September 11, 2019, 01:03:46 pm
Any News?:)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on October 02, 2019, 03:19:19 pm
I would love to get a DG800 with 100MHz sine output,
but the hack seem to be closed now so i'll need to found
something other to get a 100MHz output...
Not many choice  available in low price tag. :'(

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on October 02, 2019, 06:49:16 pm
Amplitude accuracy of a hacked DG800 unit anyway is way beyond specs at frequencies above 70MHz. If we had the calibration instruction, we surely could convince a hacked unit to be accurate, but so far there's not even a firmware update (publicly) available -- not that it would be neccessary  ;). The recent 01.09.00.00 probably only had been released to close the hacking backdoors...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the brillant code wizards attending here will find a way to get around that.  8)  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: xzswq21 on October 16, 2019, 03:05:57 pm
I want to buy a quality Signal generator especillay for Sine and Multisine signals to test my sensors. I want to publish the data with the IEEE.
I'm skeptical between Siglent SDG2042X and Rigol DG952. which one has more cleaner signal?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kodovo on October 18, 2019, 08:06:58 am
I'm skeptical between Siglent SDG2042X and Rigol DG952. which one has more cleaner signal?

If you need clean signal, in terms of S/N ratio, then Rigol DG800/900 series is not for you.  Also some jitter related issues have been reported.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: xzswq21 on October 18, 2019, 09:58:09 pm
I'm skeptical between Siglent SDG2042X and Rigol DG952. which one has more cleaner signal?

If you need clean signal, in terms of S/N ratio, then Rigol DG800/900 series is not for you.  Also some jitter related issues have been reported.
I have another question.
I have realized an optimized Multisine signal to have a better Multisine, anyhow now I have 100 or 1000 different phases, if I want to generate this signal I should send these phases to a DDS core.
Can I send these phases to a Siglent signal generator? Which signal generator do you offer me?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 30, 2019, 07:49:33 pm
Halloween gift

Sorry guys (specially Ashdash). It was my fault.

Those who were expecting to upgrade newer FWs can retry:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2631693/#msg2631693 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2631693/#msg2631693)

The patch sector is corrected. I hope!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on October 30, 2019, 09:08:37 pm
Halloween gift
Sorry guys (specially Ashdash). It was my fault.

Those who were expecting to upgrade newer FWs can retry:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2631693/#msg2631693 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2631693/#msg2631693)

The patch sector is corrected. I hope!

Nice work. I guess they need this functionality for production and they can't avoid it.

Although MSO5000 for example does not have this PROJ command, so they might be configuring it more manually. I tried inserting the key and didn't notice anything unusual there.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on October 31, 2019, 04:07:44 pm
Hello,

I hope somebody would confirm soon that this work again. :)
Thank's for your efforts TV84 !

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ashdash on November 01, 2019, 12:04:23 am
See private message.

Retried using new patch sector, but unfortunately no change in model.

Ready to assist.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on November 01, 2019, 11:53:53 am
Could possibly the serieal number of the device be involved in the "proper" machine identification?

My "almost better than new" DG811  ;) for instance has as S/N starting with DG8A20... but it's running the older firmware so the :PROJECT:MODE change worked.

I'm pretty sure that DG9xx instruments have serial numbers starting with DG9, so this could actually be used by the new firmware to identify if the device is legitimate to be changed into a DG900 series instrument. It's just a shot into the blue but since there appears to be a SCPI command :PROJECT:SN that assumingly permits to change/set the serial number, it may be worth to give it a try.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on November 06, 2019, 07:40:45 pm
So, after a more detailed analysis, the verdict:

With the introduction of FW v00.01.09.00.00, Rigol replaced the :PROJ:MODE command with the :PROJ:MODF !!!!!!

MODE             MODE        :PROJect:MODE    (up to FW v00.01.08.00.01)
MODIF            MODF        :PROJect:MODIF    (from FW v00.01.09.00.00)

Nonetheless, they changed the validation sector of the MODE command but ended up disabling it altogether and inserting a new replacement.

The new replacement uses an ECC signature of the DG model string (ex. DG992) as a parameter. So, not super easy to change modes but still accomplishable.  ;)

BTW, a DG992 (ex-DG811) can be upgraded to v00.01.09.00.00 & beyond and retain all it's features including a S/N starting with DG8A...   :popcorn:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: qft1967 on November 06, 2019, 08:57:02 pm
Ah, that is great news :-) I just received a new DG811 that I had ordered hoping to still find the old FW. But no, it already had FW v00.01.09.00.00. With a calibration date of
07.09.2019, BTW.

I will be eager to test the new method!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on November 06, 2019, 10:42:47 pm
BTW, a DG992 (ex-DG811) can be upgraded to v00.01.09.00.00 & beyond and retain all it's features including a S/N starting with DG8A...   :popcorn:

Don't give rigol any ideas  >:D.

So they sent you the new FW file? I assume no major changes other than what you have found already.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on November 09, 2019, 07:33:03 pm
These equipments have 2 Option licenses:

DG800-ARB8M - ARB  - Memory Depth Upgrade Option
DG800-DCH   - DCH  - Single-dual CH Upgrade Option

In the latest FW version (1.09.xx), Rigol implemented a 3rd "license" (called 'TYPE') to validate Model conversion.

Maybe in the future Rigol will start selling this option and officially support upgrading Models via that scheme.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on November 13, 2019, 05:15:46 pm
Hello,

I'm not sure so i ask, do some progress been made about becoming available again ?
Regards

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TheBay on December 20, 2019, 07:02:19 pm
About to buy a new Function generator, torn between a DG800 series (Hacked if still possible) and a Siglent SDG 1032X
This thread has gone a bit quiet and can't find out much about the DG800/D900 series. The Siglent is about £50 more.
No sure what to go for!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on December 20, 2019, 09:09:56 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TheBay on December 20, 2019, 09:55:12 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though

Thanks, I hadn't heard of Telonic! Having a look on there now.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on December 27, 2019, 03:02:49 pm
What's the best way to create and edit arbitrary waveforms ?

I tried Rigol Ultra station and it's only a trial and not working really well.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mattjd on December 27, 2019, 03:50:47 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though

How did you figure out to crack the DG1022Z?

Of all the Rigol gear I bought thats the only one I haven't been able to find stuff for.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on December 27, 2019, 05:12:40 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though

How did you figure out to crack the DG1022Z?

Of all the Rigol gear I bought thats the only one I haven't been able to find stuff for.

try this http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ (http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mattjd on December 27, 2019, 05:44:29 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though

How did you figure out to crack the DG1022Z?

Of all the Rigol gear I bought thats the only one I haven't been able to find stuff for.

try this http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ (http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/)

Right. That's how Ive done my scope, and psu. Nothing for the DG1022z though.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on December 27, 2019, 06:34:49 pm
I'd go with the SDG1032X or the older Rigol DG1022Z. The latter can be cracked to 60MHz still and outperforms both the Siglent and the newer Rigol units.

Telonic sell both. I think the DG1022Z is canned now though

How did you figure out to crack the DG1022Z?

Of all the Rigol gear I bought thats the only one I haven't been able to find stuff for.

try this http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ (http://www.gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/)

Right. That's how Ive done my scope, and psu. Nothing for the DG1022z though.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1022z-function-generator-hack/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1022z-function-generator-hack/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on December 27, 2019, 06:58:03 pm
For those that frequently ask for a solution on the "model change" with the new FW v1.09: as I've hinted in the past, it's perfectly possible to continue to perform the "model change" with the new FW. Attached is the proof.

As I've said, Rigol now implements a license-type validation for the "model type" string. It uses ECDSA to verify the model string.

Maybe the best way for all is for someone release a binary patch to the v1.09 main app and place it in a .GEL. For now, i wont be releasing such solution although is perfectly doable by anyone that takes a look at the app. Or try the downgrade path...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on December 27, 2019, 07:04:35 pm
How did you figure out to crack the DG1022Z?

Of all the Rigol gear I bought thats the only one I haven't been able to find stuff for.

It's been available for a few months...

Here is a guide. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/need-help-hacking-dp832-for-multicolour-option/msg2582898/#msg2582898)

The ARB16M can be obtained by using the specific private key with riglol. Search is your friend.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on December 28, 2019, 05:48:50 pm
Hello Tv84,

First, thank you for this message.
Now, I must admit to doesn't be sure to understood all.

From your post #312 you explain that the magic command is now
":PROJ:MODIF DG992" for DG992 conversion.
(instead of previous ":PROJ:MODE DG992")
Then, you explain that it not work because there is an ECC signature.
So, it's not doable (easily ?).

You seem to explain that EEC (ECDSA)  model string signature can be obtain by our-self,
 but that is very obscure for me..
How i can obtain this, and what i do with ?

The other way would be to downgrade the firmware to previous one (00.01.08.00.01)
 that allow the model change to work. Does this method has been tested successfully ?
I agree that if this work ok,  that could be fine for me ! : )

Is there any feedback to others owners of DG811 with new firmware
that have done model change with success ?
Does Ashdash has been done this ?
Thank you for your efforts.
Best regards.

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on December 28, 2019, 06:06:00 pm
If I understand correctly, TV84 is suggesting to patch the command ":PROJect:MODIF" in the binary and hardcode the new required argument to "DG992" (after being processed by ECDSA). This will allow anybody to call the command and upgrade their unit.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on December 28, 2019, 07:39:04 pm
If I understand correctly, TV84 is suggesting to patch the command ":PROJect:MODIF" in the binary and hardcode the new required argument to "DG992" (after being processed by ECDSA). This will allow anybody to call the command and upgrade their unit.

Indeed that is the scenario very similar to what I suggested. A patch can be done multiple ways but that one is perfectly doable.

You seem to explain that EEC (ECDSA)  model string signature can be obtain by our-self,
 but that is very obscure for me..
How i can obtain this, and what i do with ?

The other way would be to downgrade the firmware to previous one (00.01.08.00.01)
 that allow the model change to work. Does this method has been tested successfully ?
I agree that if this work ok,  that could be fine for me ! : )

Does Ashdash has been done this ?

Frex, I never said ECDSA was acessible to everyone. The "best way for all" suggested by me is in line with what kosmic said.

But downgrade can also be a easier way. All I need is a volunteer.

The photos are from Ashdash's equipment...

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on December 28, 2019, 08:14:58 pm
Hello,
Ok, thanks for clarifying.
(And my apologize about ECDSA misunderstanding).

So, now we must wait that someone explain how to get same "trick" as on the Ashdash device,
 or if firmware downgrade is possible to get it.  That's it ?
Best regards.

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on December 28, 2019, 09:01:25 pm
@Frex: Or you can offer to volunteer testing the experimental downgrade firmware file that TV84 may provide on your DG800. This will (most likely) result in an improved machine for you and a path for others to follow who are in the same situation as you are now.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on December 29, 2019, 06:42:33 am

@TurboTom: Yes of course, but i don't have own it yet,
i wait for the trick become available before deciding to buy it .
 :P

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: worsthorse on January 03, 2020, 02:17:28 am

No it should be FAT32, I would recommend finding an older smaller USB key if you have one but that might work.
- Download HxD, run the program, select Tools -> Open Disk -> uncheck "open as readonly" at the bottom -> Select the USB drive (make sure it says Removable Disk as type) and click OK
- At the top where it says Sector, enter 2000000 and press enter
- Copy the magic bytes from tv84's sardinha bin file (0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE), on the top select Edit and then "Paste write"
- Click Save
- Eject USB key
- Plug USB key into back of instrument, it will show the USB symbol in the top right if its detected. You can see if the drive can be opened in the DG800 menu if you like as well, but it won't indicate if it is the magic key or not.

You can send SCPI commands with USB on the back port yes, or ethernet with adapter.


Thanks to tv84 for the original post and to you for posting this.  :-+

I had some trouble with the original instructions (definitely PEBKAC, I am very out of practice with Linux) and your directions showed me where I was going wrong.

For non-Linux types: you can do this in windows 7 with rigol's ultrasigma SCPI control program over USB and, as noted above, make the key following these directions. No ethernet adapter necessary nor Linux expertise!  ;D

BTW... I am using a Plugable USB to ethernet adapter (USB2-E100) with no problems. About ten bucks I think.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ogden on January 03, 2020, 02:31:57 am
For non-Linux types: you can do this in windows 7 with rigol's ultrasigma SCPI control program over USB and, as noted above, make the key following these directions. No ethernet adapter necessary nor Linux expertise!  ;D
My two cents: I tried literally every possible way of preparing flash disk using windows. Did not fork for me. Solution was Linux (rPI) to prepare - format & write flash, then windows ultrasigma software.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: worsthorse on January 03, 2020, 02:42:04 am
For non-Linux types: you can do this in windows 7 with rigol's ultrasigma SCPI control program over USB and, as noted above, make the key following these directions. No ethernet adapter necessary nor Linux expertise!  ;D
My two cents: I tried literally every possible way of preparing flash disk using windows. Did not fork for me. Solution was Linux (rPI) to prepare - format & write flash, then windows ultrasigma software.

I had exactly the opposite experience trying to format the drive in Linux. In my case, I am sure it involved a large PEBKAC factor so after three or four tries, I stuck the USB stick into a windows 7 box, formatted it to FAT32 using the standard format tool, opened HxD, inserted the key bytes, saved it and was good to go. 

Reality is very odd sometimes.  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 05, 2020, 09:13:26 pm
But downgrade can also be a easier way. All I need is a volunteer.

The volunteer has appeared and helped test the downgrade FW.

So, now there is a FW v1.08 that can be flashed over a v1.09. It has been successfully tested.

The following can also happen immediately:
Additional PRO: immediately converts the unit to DG992, with no more commands.    :popcorn:
Additional CON: resets the S/N. So, one must resend the S/N with the SCPI command :PROJ:SN.  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: worsthorse on January 05, 2020, 10:31:14 pm
But downgrade can also be a easier way. All I need is a volunteer.

The volunteer has appeared and helped test the downgrade FW.

So, now there is a FW v1.08 that can be flashed over a v1.09. It has been successfully tested.

The following can also happen immediately:
Additional PRO: immediately converts the unit to DG992, with no more commands.    :popcorn:
Additional CON: resets the S/N. So, one must resend the S/N with the SCPI command :PROJ:SN.  ;)

nice piece of work!  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on January 06, 2020, 03:01:31 am
Agreed. Well done, tv84! :clap:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 06, 2020, 04:41:29 pm
Hello,
indeed very nice TV84 !   :-+
How to perform this then ?
Can you explain a procedure ?

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 06, 2020, 04:56:03 pm
Can you explain a procedure ?

Upgrade FW procedure as usual.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 06, 2020, 05:36:37 pm
 
Ah ok !  ::)
I wasn't thinking that is so simple... :P
So as soon firmware is back to 00.01.08.00.01 , we can follow the procedure
in you post #147 (http://"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391")  , it is correct ?
Can i use the old (01.08) firmware here (http://"https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/") ?
Regards

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 06, 2020, 05:41:42 pm

I downloaded the firmware zip file I linked above, and it include
a GEL file and text file.

When i open the text file "DG800_DG900 Upgrade Instructions.txt" i can read :
"  - DG800/900 series digital oscilloscope does not support the downgrading
      operations. "

What about this , It's a lie ?

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 06, 2020, 05:58:57 pm
 :palm:

I crafted the downgradable version.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Kosmic on January 06, 2020, 06:12:54 pm

I downloaded the firmware zip file I linked above, and it include
a GEL file and text file.

When i open the text file "DG800_DG900 Upgrade Instructions.txt" i can read :
"  - DG800/900 series digital oscilloscope does not support the downgrading
      operations. "

What about this , It's a lie ?

Frex

Frex, the patched firmware was never posted by TV84.

If you try to install the official firmware, of course it's not going to work since Rigol do not support downgrade.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 06, 2020, 06:53:57 pm
OK I see.
Sorry once again for the misunderstanding.
So it isn't as simple and we need this new 01.08 "custom"  firmware
before to try downgrade.
Do you share it TV84 ?

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 06, 2020, 08:20:46 pm
OK I see.
Sorry once again for the misunderstanding.
So it isn't as simple and we need this new 01.08 "custom"  firmware
before to try downgrade.
Do you share it TV84 ?

Frex

Frex, now it's my turn: have you got the equipment? If not, then you don't need the file.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 06, 2020, 08:50:25 pm

Not yet, well done.  :(
But i could ask you when done ?

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 10, 2020, 06:06:21 pm
Hello,

I received today my DG811 from Batronix !
Good news, it is arrived with the old firmware 00.01.08.00.01
I have made the special USB key.
To send the SCPI command, does the easiest way is to
install RIGOL UltraSigma software ?
Regards

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: egonotto on January 10, 2020, 07:47:51 pm
Hello,

no, Peter Dreisiebner Rigol Bildschirmkopie LAN/USB is much better. http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie/index.htm (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie/index.htm)

If you use lan you dont need a installation.

Best regards
egonotto
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 11, 2020, 09:38:50 am
Ok right.

I installed it, but when i tried to install the WinUSB driver (WinUSB (v6.1.7600.16385))
 with Zadig the install fail . I'm on win7-64.
Any idea ?

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on January 12, 2020, 09:52:44 am
Hello,

After installing Rigol Bildschirmkopie LAN/USB and WinUSB drivers with Zadig,
the DG811 recognized but communication not work (error when scpi command send).
SO i finally install Rigol UltraSigma that is a nightmare on win7...
Anyway, now the DG811 is becomed a DG992 !
Very happy, and big thank to all ! (special for TV84).
Regards

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: swperk on January 25, 2020, 02:28:02 pm
A HUGE thanks to tv84 for helping me with my DG812->DG992 upgrade!

I've written up a set of instructions based on tv84's original instructions, but also added a few bits gleaned from other discussions and my own adventures and missteps while performing the upgrade. I have not tried the upgrade method for firmware 01.09, so the command I've listed for that upgrade is based only on what I've read in this forum. I would definitely appreciate any comments, suggestions, additions, or corrections to what I've written here.


HOW TO CHANGE RIGOL DG800/DG900 MODELS

1. Format a blank USB disk of at least 1GB capacity as a FAT32 drive

2. Write the special signature to the USB disk (assuming it is at /dev/sda1) with the following Linux command:

   sudo dd if=DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000

Or use the HxD program in Windows to write the following 8 bytes at offset 2000000:

   0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE

3. With the special USB disk inserted, send the SCPI command via the DG USB interface (using Rigol Ultra Sigma, for example) to change the model to DG992:

   :PROJ:MODE DG992      (for firmware 00.01.08.00.01 or lower)

   :PROJ:MODIF DG992   (for firmware 00.01.09.00.00 or greater)

DO NOT use the "Send and Read" command. Attempting to read a response from the DG will invalidate the command.

Possible model types (as seen in the first 4 bytes of the sd.xx configuration file):

00 - DG811
01 - DG821
02 - DG831
03 - DG812
04 - DG822
05 - DG832
06 - DG952
07 - DG972
08 - DG992

4. Remove the special USB disk from the DG and restart the DG.

5. Enjoy!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 25, 2020, 02:37:06 pm
:PROJ:MODIF DG992   (for firmware 00.01.09.00.00 or greater)

This is not correct! The rest is OK.

MODIF command is something like this:

PROJ:MODIF DG992,<---512 bytes block with encrypted signature of the model--->
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: swperk on January 25, 2020, 05:38:53 pm
Thanks for that correction!

Do you know if the purpose of the 01.09 release was only to close the window for the upgrade possible under 01.08, or were there additional features enabled? I notice that on www.rigolna.com (http://www.rigolna.com), the latest firmware is still shown as 00.01.08.00.01.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 25, 2020, 06:15:21 pm
Thanks for that correction!

Do you know if the purpose of the 01.09 release was only to close the window for the upgrade possible under 01.08, or were there additional features enabled? I notice that on www.rigolna.com (http://www.rigolna.com), the latest firmware is still shown as 00.01.08.00.01.

I have that feeling BUT the "window closing" and the new upgrade method was so poorly implemented that the FW didn't even see the light of day (for the general public).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on January 29, 2020, 11:47:30 pm
Just a BIG thank you to tv84 for his help in downgrading my 1.09 DG811 which came with 1.09 preinstalled, and of course all the work done in making this possible in the first place.

I don't do much in the 100 MHz area, but for the more complex waveforms (even square), I definitely need the 25 MHz, 5 MHz is a joke.

Also, thanks to timber23, my desk is often so full that I can't get to the damn equipment. I need remote control, well done!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: qft1967 on January 30, 2020, 08:08:08 am
Just a BIG thank you to tv84 for his help in downgrading my 1.09 DG811 which came with 1.09 preinstalled, and of course all the work done in making this possible in the first place.

I don't do much in the 100 MHz area, but for the more complex waveforms (even square), I definitely need the 25 MHz, 5 MHz is a joke.

Also, thanks to timber23, my desk is often so full that I can't get to the damn equipment. I need remote control, well done!

Yes, from me also a big thanks to tv84 for the downgrade. Was your serial number also reseted to 0, and where you able to put it back? Somehow for me the PROJ commands are not working... Anyway, besides that it's working perfectly...

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on January 30, 2020, 03:24:32 pm
Yes, from me also a big tanks to tv84 for the downgrade. Was your serial number also reseted to 0, and where you able to put it back? Somehow for me the PROJ commands are not working... Anyway, besides that it's working perfectly...

Yes, my serial was reset. Funnily enough, if you go to utility->interface->USB you will still find a reference to your original serial number  :o

And I did manage to bring it back. For this, you need the magic usb stick, formatted FAT32, with 0B 0A 3B 2E  5F 4C EC BE written at sector 2 000 000. I then was able to use ultra sigma and go :PROJect:SN DG8XXXXXXXXXX without any issues.

(https://i.imgur.com/A1KNAng.png)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on January 30, 2020, 06:09:13 pm
I then was able to use ultra sigma and go :PROJect:SN DG8XXXXXXXXXX without any issues.

Thanks for confirming. I was sure it had to work!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: qft1967 on January 30, 2020, 09:24:25 pm
Well, look at that, now it works for me too. I think I exchanged over 10 messages with tv84 just about this as I couldn't get it to take my SN back. I had given up already, as I thought it anyway doesn't matter.

In the end I think I missread the instructions and had put the code at sector 200k and not 2M. Thanks ultranalog for writing it out clearly again.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: NETeagle on February 05, 2020, 10:24:22 am
Hi,

I've done successfully a downgrade from 1.09 to 1.08 with the custom fw provided by tv84 on my DG811. Then I have restored the serial number with the command :PROJect:SN DG8XXXXXXXXXX and the USB key plugged. The function generator works up to 100MHz now  8).
Thanks tv84 for your help  :-+ !

Cheers
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on February 13, 2020, 08:13:10 pm
I was able to upgrade another DG811 with 1.09 firmware using tv84 method. Thanks! One possible problem is that if the USB stick has too many files, the generator can't find the .GEL file and doesn't initiate the upgrade. Using an empty USB stick works fine.

Strangely, I haven't been able to change my SN using the USB stick with the magic string. I used one before to upgrade another generator. Must be doing something wrong now...

Edit: Apparently I was opening the USB stick in HxD as a "physical disk". If I open it as a "logical disk" and put in the magic string, then it works! That is what I must have done the first time. So this is another potential pitfall.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 02, 2020, 04:41:14 pm
First of all I want to thank all the keen and gifted helpers in this thread, especially TurboTom, Ashdash, thm_w, tv84 for providing the decisive information and files and timber23 for risking his DG922 and writing the RemoteControl! :-)

My DG811 is on its way and due to the thread entries it is obvious, that I will get Version 1.09 tomorrow, thus I have to downgrade to 1.08 first, right?

Because of my high blood pressure, I need to ask some questions for my understanding, before having the device in front of me... ;-)

1. I have an old "SanDisk USB", 4GB, formatted with "SD Card Formatter" to FAT32

2. I did the manipulation of the "SanDisk USB" with HxD at point 2 000 000 with the bytes (0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE) from file "DG800_sardinha.bin" in order to get the MagicUSB

3. The DG811 will be connected via the shipped USB cable together with my PC. I am on Ubuntu Bionic Beaver, but my MultiBoot-PC has an "Offline Windows 7", which I will use for this purpose:

   -> I have already installed "Ultra Sigma Software" in order to send via "SCPI Panel Control" the two commands:
   -> :PROJ:MODIF DG992
   -> :PROJect:SN DG8XXXXXXXXXX
   -> The MagicUSB will be connected directly to the DG811 USB port while doing so.
   
   
   ***** And HERE - probably also before  :-// - I struggle concerning the meaning of the different files...*****


What do I have to copy onto my MagicUSB, connected directly to my DG811 at first, second...before executing my step "3." ???

"SardineUpdate.GEL" provided by tv84 in post #294
Is this for doing my NAND-Backup in order to get back to 1.09 after the downgrade for the later upgrade again?

...or is this already the downgrade file over 1.09?
...or is this an update file back to 1.09?

"DG800_sardinha_v2.bin" provided by tv84 in post #294
Is this for doing the downgrade to 1.08?


As this will be my first Rigol, I am unfortunately a little bit confused and have the feeling, that I have misunderstood something...  ???

Thank you very much for any help! ;-)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 02, 2020, 05:06:21 pm
You're making things harder for you!

Implement JUST and ONLY my 1st procedure, if you have v1.08. If not, you need to downgrade from v1.09 to v1.08 to apply it.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 03, 2020, 02:56:17 pm
Thank you for your quick reply, tv84!

Unfortunately I am not that lucky as Frex with his version 1.08...

Today I received my DG811 from Batronix with FW 1.09 - I did a photo from the DG811 and blacken SN after DG8A... The black spot on the upper side is from my dirty Galaxy S5 lense.


May I ask for your special Custom Firmware to do the downgrade, tv84?  :'(


Best wishes!


By the way @ Frex: Did you have a foil protection on your display, as you also ordered from Batronix? I did not. In several yt-videos all of them had to peal of the protection foil from the display...maybe they sold me a retoure...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Frex on March 03, 2020, 03:53:24 pm
Hello PushUp,

Yes, I ordered mine to Batronix too.
But honestly i don't remember if there was a protection foil ... sorry :- \
No worry, i think Tv84 will help you to downgrade it  :-+

Frex
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 05, 2020, 09:15:56 pm
Hello all

some problem.  can not downgrade from 1.09 to 1.08 :(
MODIF on 1.09 not working :(
after many restarts and flash-horror-hour  |O
anybody use "SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00" from internal Rigolsite?
Sorry for my english
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on March 05, 2020, 09:47:34 pm
Hello all

some problem.  can not downgrade from 1.09 to 1.08 :(
MODIF on 1.09 not working :(
after many restarts and flash-horror-hour  |O
anybody use "SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00" from internal Rigolsite?
Sorry for my english

I think tv84 is the only one with file to downgrade.

Release notes:
v00.02.04.00.00   2020-02-18
- Add open source declaration in help UI
- Solve the problem of address error in ultralab heartbeat server configuration
- Solve the bug that the relay output instantaneous voltage error after setting offset

The applicable models include DG811,DG821,DG831,DG812,DG822,DG832,DG952,DG972,DG992,DG2052,DG2072,DG2102.

I'm not sure if the third one is the fix we discussed in the other thread, if it is I'm thoroughly confused as support said it won't come until June... Will try the firmware when I get home.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 05, 2020, 09:49:05 pm
Hello all

some problem.  can not downgrade from 1.09 to 1.08 :(
MODIF on 1.09 not working :(
after many restarts and flash-horror-hour  |O
anybody use "SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00" from internal Rigolsite?
Sorry for my english

Forget MODIF. Please send me that FW version.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on March 05, 2020, 09:53:42 pm
Forget MODIF. Please send me that FW version.

Its on the rigol EU site, https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/p/3.html (https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/p/3.html)
edit: mirror (https://wetransfer.com/downloads/fa968b202fc31f5bc356ce39bfa1264920200305215456/abf59585617790e2a8317081337acb3920200305215457/78c446)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 05, 2020, 09:57:08 pm
DG2052,DG2072,DG2102.

Nice!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on March 06, 2020, 06:02:10 am
- Solve the bug that the relay output instantaneous voltage error after setting offset

Can confirm this is fixed. I don't expect any other major changes, model is still the same DG992 (thanks to tv84).

Before:
[attachimg=1]

After:
[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 06, 2020, 06:13:49 am
THX thm_w

that is the FW 00.02.04.00.00 what I meant.

THX tv84
have you dowload it? or should I send (64MB) ?

if there is no easy way downgrade 1.09 to 1.08. And unlock with 1st method (MODE) on 1.08.
I can try update to 02.04 and 1st method (MODE)
or downgrade 02.04 to 01.08 and 1st method (MODE)
need DG992  8)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 06, 2020, 10:00:46 am
...did some testing...  :-/O

In case you are as curious as I - don't do the 2.04 update from a modified 1.08.00.01 by tv84, because your DG8XX (pimped to a DG992) ends up as a normal DG8XX again - with FW 2.04!

However, it was also possible to use the same method backwards to downgrade from 2.04 (the same as with 1.09), to end up with a pimped DG992 on FW 1.08.00.01 as before again.

This time the SN is also kept - no need to use scpi command any more...


Cheers!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 06, 2020, 10:43:40 am
In case you are as curious as I - don't do the 2.04 update from a modified 1.08.00.01 by tv84, because your DG8XX (pimped to a DG992) ends up as a normal DG8XX again - with FW 2.04!

 ::) Since that was not the case in thm_w's FW update, you should try this:

After installing the downgrade FW, you MUST execute my 1st procedure in order to change the model to DG992 (even if you already see DG992 in the system menu). Or change it to DG972 and then back to DG992, just to check that all is good. Then apply the newest 2.04 FW. I think it should stick.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 06, 2020, 12:24:30 pm
I did the change to model name "DG972" (pic 1) and backwards to model name "DG992" (pic 2) successfully, but again no luck to update to official 2.04 keeping a pimped DG992, ending with a "DG811" on 2.04 (pic 3) and back to "DG992" with your special CFW ending with 01.08.00.01 (pic 4)...

I clearly miss something, but at the moment I have no idea, how to solve it...  :'(

At least it shows, that any new buyer is able to downgrade from official 2.04!

Cheers!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 06, 2020, 05:46:00 pm
No problem!  :-+

Maybe it has something to do with the implemented/saved/changed SN? DG8A vs. DG9A!?

Before executing FW 2.04 on my pimped DG992, I tried to implement a DG9A-SN (see pic, probably blacklisted?!)
and surprisingly ended with my own original SN on a DG811 with official FW 2.04 after the reboot.

However, when doing the CFW by tv84 to get back to a pimped DG992,
there was the same DG9A-SN from the beginning again - directly after the reboot...  :popcorn:

Cheers!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 06, 2020, 07:17:07 pm
custom FW for downgrade not posted here.
you can share it?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 06, 2020, 07:19:59 pm
Here is my photo after finishing FW upgrade.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 06, 2020, 08:04:02 pm
Maybe it is also useful to name the FW the DG8XX was originally delivered with?

Could it be, that the DG8XXies originally shipped with 1.09, got a special "implementation"?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 06, 2020, 08:10:18 pm
Maybe it is also useful to name the FW the DG8XX was originally delivered with?

Could it be, that the DG8XXies originally shipped with 1.09, got a special "implementation"?

Naaaa...  My DG came as 1.08.

Downgrade. Set the original S/N and model = "DG992", explicitly with my 1st procedure. Then try again the upgrade. Or after setting things, flash a FW previous to 2.04 and then 2.04.

Don't do any operation with the S/N DG9... No need to invent.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on March 06, 2020, 08:43:10 pm
My DG812 came with FW 1.08.01 and I initially could upgrade it to the 992 model when tv84 first posted the instructions.
I did not run a firmware update in the meantime but just now installed 2.04.
After FW update it still runs in 992 mode without any changes, keeping the original DG8xxxx serial number etc.

Just wanted to report back that there was no problem at all upgrading to the new firmware. :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on March 06, 2020, 09:59:20 pm
This thread is going to lose me some coin soon  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Wintel on March 06, 2020, 10:57:01 pm
Maybe it is also useful to name the FW the DG8XX was originally delivered with?

Could it be, that the DG8XXies originally shipped with 1.09, got a special "implementation"?

Naaaa...  My DG came as 1.08.

Downgrade. Set the original S/N and model = "DG992", explicitly with my 1st procedure. Then try again the upgrade. Or after setting things, flash a FW previous to 2.04 and then 2.04.

Don't do any operation with the S/N DG9... No need to invent.

After upgrade from FW 1.08 to FW 2.04 , does the "DG992" can output 100MHz without any problem?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on March 07, 2020, 12:06:46 am
After upgrade from FW 1.08 to FW 2.04 , does the "DG992" can output 100MHz without any problem?

yes
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: timber23 on March 07, 2020, 02:42:28 pm
After upgrade from FW 1.08 to FW 2.04 , does the "DG992" can output 100MHz without any problem?
yes
For me, there is still a problem at 100MHz. The output power is reduced by (-11.3 - (-8.08) [dBm] =) -3.22 dBm.
So the output of a 100MHz sinusoidal signal is possible with FW 2.04, but at least my device has the same reduced output power problem as before with FW 1.08.
I attached a photo of my hacked DG811->DG992 with FW 2.04. Furthermore I attached three measurements taken with hacked SSA3021X. Both devices (DG811 and SSA3021X) are connected to an external clock driven by a GPSDO. So there is no surprise that both frequencies are spot on.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 08, 2020, 10:24:30 pm
THX tv84 :)

downgrade 01.09  to 01.08 work perfect.

Unfortunately it works update to 02.04  :(

First downgrade 01.09  to 01.08 CFW - ( show as DG992 S/N reset 0)

send :PROJ:MODE DG992 (can change it to DG997 or some Model its works)
send :PROJect:SN DG8AXXXXXXXXX with my original S/N (thats works, can be changed)
tested with UltraSigma and NI Max
after update to 02.04 start as DG811

I can before the update enter any S/N (reset DG8A000000000, tested with another DG811 Key)
send :PROJect:SN DG8Asomething

after update 02.04 start as DG811 with my original S/N  :o

01.09Official->01.08CFW = Yes
02.04Official->01.08CFW = Yes
02.04Official->01.08Official =No
01.08CFW->01.08Official = No

PushUp did you have sucess?
someone did it successfully preinstalled 01.09->01.08FW->02.04 ?

another project, not tested https://github.com/justchain/DG811
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: frozenfrogz on March 09, 2020, 01:33:27 am
For me, there is still a problem at 100MHz.

I would not call that a problem. This behavior is to be expected since FW does not have anything to do with your devices calibration. Attenuated output on 'upgraded' DG8xx models seems to be the norm. There were a lot of comprehensive measurements on various units (posted some pages back), that showed attenuation above 50 MHz (?).
The assumption is, that DG8xx models have only been calibrated up to 50MHz and one would need to do a full calibration routine after upgrading. However, there is no comprehensive DIY calibration guide (yet) AFAIK.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on March 09, 2020, 02:32:04 am
Correct on the calibration issue above 50 MHz. For more info, the discussion starts about here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420703/#msg2420703 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420703/#msg2420703)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on March 09, 2020, 12:19:02 pm
PushUp did you have sucess?

Nope - either we are total noobs or there must be a difference between originally shipped 1.08 and 1.09 FW and/or units as I have already mentioned somewhere above...of course only from logical aspect, as I am no programmer being able to analyze *.GEL-files...

When I am not mistaken, AshDash was the first one with a shipped 1.09, who had to invest time and brain to contribute decisive steps to tv84 and other friendly helpers to search for a new/other way to downgrade; probably this is also the case for an upgrade to 2.04 and any further...

I did a nightsession on Friday evening, testing any possible situation with no luck in the end; at the moment I wait till other users with originally 1.09 shipped devices verify our experiences...

For now, I do have two normal USB-Sticks - apart from the MagicUSB. The first with the official 2.04 FW and the second with CFW 1.08.00.01.
When I want to check something with new and old FW, I can now easily switch both FWs in a hurry - at the moment I am fine with this. As 2.04 isn't totally satisfying for all users, I have no problem to wait...

Maybe we can profit from AshDash trying to upgrade to 2.04 or others coming in the future...or we collect some money to send tv84 a DG811 with originally shipped 1.09 to challenge his skills! ;-)


Cheers!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 10, 2020, 12:27:20 am
sorry work keeps me from important things :-\
Yes all changes S/N & Model with magic-usbstick
Power off, stick and usbcabel unplug, turn on.
 
2GB stick (512 Bytes sektorsize) format normal FAT32 (not quick) on Windows10, hope all sektor overwrited.
Format FAT32 on USB Live-Mint Linux again.

boot with Linux-mint Live-stick and pluged magic-stick, SSD unplug :) wanted absolutely sda1 for magic-stick
sudo dd if=/home/mint/Downloads/DG800_sardinha.bin of=/dev/sda1 bs=512 seek=2000000 (usbstick mouted on sda1, DG800_sardinha.bin in "Downloads" folder)

checked with HxD in logical drive. Magic-string its really in sektor 2000000.

I use this magic-stick, think stick is correct.  I can change model just with stick.

what is the difference?
:PROJect:SN   (26 Bytes)
:PROJ:SN        (23 Bytes)
both work. the same result - 02.04 with DG811. :(
magic-stick loading on 02.04 faster (block magic-string? or faster usb read? hmm) I just noticed...
EU Rigol site 00.02.04.00.00 release 2019-08-29 in readme release  2020-02-18 ???
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on March 10, 2020, 09:54:57 am
sorry work keeps me from important things :-\
Yes all changes S/N & Model with magic-usbstick
...
what is the difference?
:PROJect:SN   (26 Bytes)
:PROJ:SN        (23 Bytes)

OK, thanks.

No difference in the commands. Most of all SCPI commands have an extended and a short version.

When I have some time I'll take a peek at the 2.04 FW to try solve your problem.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Dagidag on March 10, 2020, 12:50:34 pm
THX tv84  :)

as long as. I will use 1.08. it does too :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on March 10, 2020, 07:48:09 pm
Hello,
I'm new rigol dg811 user, it arrived with firmware 1.09, and I have made a usb stick with "magic" string but the command "PROJ MODF DG992" not work.

Where can find the tv84 cwf for downgrade?
I'm a volontario for testing:)

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on March 10, 2020, 08:30:25 pm
DG822 landed on my doorstep today from Telonic here in the UK with the 1.08 firmware on it still  :-+

Alas no upgrade fun because there wasn't a USB cable in the damn box  :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mrflibble on March 10, 2020, 10:09:22 pm
Must! ... Not! ... Read thread about hackable goodies. :scared:

Resist!!! *close tabs*
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on March 11, 2020, 12:30:18 am
He'll be back. :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on March 11, 2020, 08:47:06 am
Yeah it does happen. Proof:

This thread is going to lose me some coin soon  :-DD

DG822 landed on my doorstep today from Telonic here in the UK with the 1.08 firmware on it still  :-+

Alas no upgrade fun because there wasn't a USB cable in the damn box  :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on March 11, 2020, 12:29:50 pm
And cracked. Used the magic USB stick and UltraSigma to do the job. Worked first time. Thanks to all involved in this  :-+

(https://imgur.com/aiIJpWE.jpg)

I like how the output buttons go red as well.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: exit_failure on March 19, 2020, 08:42:31 am
I'm looking into buying a DG822. It would be great, if you could answer the following questions:

Many thanks
Harry
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on March 19, 2020, 02:13:12 pm
Haven't checked this thread for a few weeks, interesting developments :)

I found the new firmware, Rigol wants you to log in but if you look at the HTML you simply find a direct link to the RAR file: https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar (https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar)

My original FW was 1.09.
I used TV84's downgrade to 1.08, got a DG992 and reprogrammed my serial number afterwards.
Life was good (well, until the world fell apart)
Today, I flashed the TV84-1.08 to 2.04 and it came back as DG811 with original serial number.
I then re-flashed with TV84's downgrade and came back to 1.08, regained my DG992 model but did not lose my serial number this time!

Oddly enough when it came back to DG992 it even had the frequency settings that I last used.
Fine with me, I didn't even know what is so great about 2.04 anyway, the release notes are not super impressive:

Quote
[Updated Contents]

v00.02.04.00.00   2020-02-18

     - Add open source declaration in help UI
    - Solve the problem of address error in ultralab heartbeat server configuration
    - Solve the bug that the relay output instantaneous voltage error after setting offset

It looks to me like Rigol is really not happy with this thread.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on March 19, 2020, 02:17:57 pm
Haven't checked this thread for a few weeks, interesting developments :)

I found the new firmware, Rigol wants you to log in but if you look at the HTML you simply find a direct link to the RAR file: https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar (https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar)

My original FW was 1.09.
I used TV84's downgrade to 1.08, got a DG992 and reprogrammed my serial number afterwards.
Life was good (well, until the world fell apart)
Today, I flashed the TV84-1.08 to 2.04 and it came back as DG811 with original serial number.
I then re-flashed with TV84's downgrade and came back to 1.08, regained my DG992 model but did not lose my serial number this time!

Hi,
But where can I find the “TV84's downgrade to 1.08” firmware?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: spruutz on March 19, 2020, 09:47:28 pm
Hello,

got my DG821 this week and I really enjoy it.
I have tried to ugrade it to a DG832 but it doesn't want to. Also any other upgrade have no effect.

SW version 00.01.08.00.01

I have done the steps from tv84 post #147 and used a RaspberryPi with raspian to write the bin file to the formatted USB drive (2GB). Also tried it with HxD on my Windows laptop, but after entering the SCPI code :PROJ:MODE DG832 and restarting the DG it says still 821.
Has anybody a glue what I am doing wrong?

Many thanks in advance!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on March 20, 2020, 08:15:30 pm
Hello,

the trick to change model type with magic usbstick work very well, (THANKS tv84)
I've change my dl3021 to 3021A and my dp832 to 832A, but for success of operation you need to create a good usb stick.

I have a dg811 with 1.09 fw and the trick not work, it required a 1.08
so, are you sure to have 1.08 firmware and not 1.09 or later?



Hello,

got my DG821 this week and I really enjoy it.
I have tried to ugrade it to a DG832 but it doesn't want to. Also any other upgrade have no effect.

SW version 00.01.08.00.01

I have done the steps from tv84 post #147 and used a RaspberryPi with raspian to write the bin file to the formatted USB drive (2GB). Also tried it with HxD on my Windows laptop, but after entering the SCPI code :PROJ:MODE DG832 and restarting the DG it says still 821.
Has anybody a glue what I am doing wrong?

Many thanks in advance!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mikets7 on March 23, 2020, 07:27:49 pm
Hi!

i have a Rigol DG811 and i am trying to hack it!
i have follow the steps of TV84 but nothing!
my sn is 1.08 its the old version!
i format the flash drive (32gb) via windows i change at 2000000sector to 0B 0A 3B 2E 5F 4C EC BE with HxD and with r&s visa
i send the command :PROJ:MODE DG992 ... but nothing
thanks in advance!!!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on March 23, 2020, 11:24:21 pm
Hi!

i have a Rigol DG811 and i am trying to hack it!
i have follow the steps of TV84 but nothing!
my sn is 1.08 its the old version!
i format the flash drive (32gb) via windows i change at 2000000sector to 0B 0A 3B 2E 5F 4C EC BE with HxD and with r&s visa
i send the command :PROJ:MODE DG992 ... but nothing
thanks in advance!!!

Does the USB symbol show up when the drive is inserted into DG800?
If you open the drive with HxD again is the data still there?
Maybe try a smaller flash drive.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Mikets7 on March 24, 2020, 08:03:16 am
Hi!
Thanks for the quick response..

Done it...thank you very much... :phew:
It performed easily only following the procedure
Tv84 explains only via linux...
I used raspi....love raspi...

Best regards...

Thank so much...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on March 24, 2020, 07:48:05 pm
For the linux people that are scared of command line:

1. What the hell are you doing with linux?  :-DD

2. Use 'gparted' for formatting. Not 'disks'. That utility is a useless-tility.

3. Format the disk 'FAT32' for a firmware image, Format it as 'FAT16' if you want to make a magic disk.

This worked without fail for me.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: digitalautomotive on March 25, 2020, 03:55:44 pm
Hi,
Can you please help where to find the custom firmware 1.08 so i can downgrade my DG811 Fw 1.09.00.02 to modify it to DG992 using TV84 method.
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ruediger on March 30, 2020, 11:53:09 am
Hi guys,

I bought my DG811 some time ago and received it with the FW1.09.  Now I would like to upgrade it and need your help to downgrade the FW to 1.08 or to test other ways of updrading for you.

Thanks for your help
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 06, 2020, 03:32:20 pm
Finally, got DG811 unit from China. Unfortunately, it have 2.02 firmware installed.

Is it possible to upgrade to 992?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thetechnick on April 07, 2020, 07:06:29 pm
Finally, got DG811 unit from China. Unfortunately, it have 2.02 firmware installed.

Is it possible to upgrade to 992?

It is, but you need to downgrade the firmware and do the unlock trick from this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391)
Unfortunately the device does not let you downgrade the firmware, so you need to bypass the version validation for the downgrade to succeed.

tv84 seems to have a working "downgrade" firmware, although he did not put it up for public download.
Probably due to the attachment-size limit, I am sure he will share a download link when he has time.

I am currently trying to take a stab at it myself, although my experience with such stuff is about zero :D

Rigol pulled the old (hackable) firmware from most of their websites, but by checking some of their file servers I finally found it.
If someone needs the old firmware - just ping me. Cannot upload it here due to attachment size restrictions of the forum.
PLEASE NOTE: you cannot downgrade your device with the original firmware - you need to patch it first, somehow :D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on April 07, 2020, 07:18:44 pm
Is there a change log for software versions for the DG800 series at all?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thetechnick on April 07, 2020, 07:31:33 pm
If you download the latest firmware you will find a Release Notes file.
As v00.01.09.00.00 was never released as an updated, just preinstalled on some devices, there seems to be no change log entry for it.

Code: [Select]
[Model Supported] DG811,DG821,DG831,DG812,DG822,DG832,DG952,DG972,DG992,DG2052,DG2072,DG2102
[Latest Revision Date] 2020-02-18


[Updated Contents]

v00.02.04.00.00 2020-02-18

     - Add open source declaration in help UI
- Solve the problem of address error in ultralab heartbeat server configuration
- Solve the bug that the relay output instantaneous voltage error after setting offset
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on April 07, 2020, 07:36:04 pm
Fantastic thanks. That actually answers the question I was going to ask about the instantaneous output voltage as well  :-+

Looks like I'm going to upgrade my cracked DG822 to latest firmware. Will lose 100MHz but not that fussed about it at the moment.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thetechnick on April 07, 2020, 07:46:20 pm
Fantastic thanks. That actually answers the question I was going to ask about the instantaneous output voltage as well  :-+

Looks like I'm going to upgrade my cracked DG822 to latest firmware. Will lose 100MHz but not that fussed about it at the moment.

If you cracked it "properly" the update should not reset the model designation, see:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2950872/#msg2950872 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2950872/#msg2950872)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2951658/#msg2951658 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2951658/#msg2951658)

( I already read through this whole thread way too many times... )
Just people that receive new units with v00.02.xx need to downgrade... in order to upgrade - sounds stupid, but seems to work :D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ruediger on April 09, 2020, 05:34:38 am
Thanks for the answers.

I'll wait for TV84 to answer.
If any of you have an idea to upgrade directly from FW1.09 I can try it for you.

I volunteer.

Have a nice day
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 10, 2020, 10:35:08 pm
When I am not mistaken, AshDash was the first one with a shipped 1.09, who had to invest time and brain to contribute decisive steps to tv84 and other friendly helpers to search for a new/other way to downgrade; probably this is also the case for an upgrade to 2.04 and any further...

:) Let's call him a helpful volunteer and that's why he deserved a special treatment... His upgrade method is not "public".   ;)

So, from all the posts in these last 2 pages i seem to conclude that the (factory released) v2.04 equipments don't migrate the model ID from the v1.08 version because they already have a valid DG81x ID in the new memory struct area.

If that's so, it should be possible to patch the FW to do it or ... using the MODF command (which is Rigol's official way). 

Edit: Therefore the "downgrade" method only works with re-upgrade up to v2.02 , as such its validity has expired.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 11, 2020, 12:30:53 pm
I've extracted some fw4uboot.sh parts from GEL files:

Command used:
Code: [Select]
openssl aes-128-cbc -in 1.bin.aes -out 1.bin -d -K "BAD8CFFEBBAAB5C4C3D8D4BFCAFDBEDD" -iv "0" -nopad


Also,  fw4linux.sh seems to be encoded using some other key.

FW 1.80
Code: [Select]
#upgrade_shell
#check version first
showMessage 'Upgrading(1/4), check version...' 7 14
if checkVer "00.01.00.11.01"; then \
  echo New version; \
else \
  echo Old version; \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, not new version!' 7 14;\
fi;


#check all md5
progress 16
showMessage 'Upgrading(2/4), check images...' 7 14
progress 17
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 856ee251bb839a7c231c2920903939c3; then \
    echo check Sardine.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check Sardine.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} e3260cf08c98485d8d51c2fd83142c61; then \
    echo check app_gz.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check app_gz.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#update spi flash images
progress 19
showMessage 'Upgrading(3/4), flash images...' 7 14
#update nand images
mtdparts default;
echo 'set mtdparts environment';
setenv mtdparts "mtdparts=nand.0:1m(NAND.bootpic-usr),1m(NAND.bootpic-def)ro,1m(NAND.bootpic-def.bak)ro,512k(NAND.uboot-env),512k(NAND.uboot-env.bak),512k(NAND.fdt)ro,512k(NAND.fdt.bak)ro,8m(NAND.kernel)ro,8m(NAND.kernel.bak)ro,31m(NAND.reserved),180m(NAND.sardine)ro,100m(NAND.filesystem),20m(NAND.cal),-(NAND.userspace)"
echo 'del partitions';
mtdparts del NAND.reserved
mtdparts del NAND.sardine
echo 'add partitions';
mtdparts add nand0 0x01f00000@0x01500000 NAND.reserved
mtdparts add nand0 0x0b400000@0x03400000 NAND.sardine
saveenv
echo 'set mtdparts environment OK!';
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.sardine; then \
      progress 70;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
        progress 74;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.sardine; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
          progress 74;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip Sardine.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.reserved; then \
      progress 94;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
        progress 98;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.reserved; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
          progress 98;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip app_gz.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#env
echo 'set some env';
showMessage 'Upgrading(4/4), set some env...' 7 14
progress 99
setenv softver '00.01.00.11.01'
setenv builddate '2018.08.30 16:39:44'
setenv bootcmd nandboot
showMessage 'Upgrade OK, please reboot.' 7 14
progress 100
saveenv
echo 'System download OK!';
##end##


FW 2.02
Code: [Select]
#upgrade_shell
#check version first
showMessage 'Upgrading(1/4), check version...' 7 14
if checkVer "00.01.09.00.01"; then \
  echo New version; \
else \
  echo Old version; \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, not new version!' 7 14;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;


#check all md5
progress 16
showMessage 'Upgrading(2/4), check images...' 7 14
progress 17
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} ac0f5b34f8b37c3648ad2995b911c611; then \
    echo check Sardine.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check Sardine.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 9d6a5188b8f2cc5254ed1b5d62b0f431; then \
    echo check app_gz.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check app_gz.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#update spi flash images
progress 19
showMessage 'Upgrading(3/4), flash images...' 7 14
#update nand images
mtdparts default;
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.sardine; then \
      progress 70;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
        progress 74;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.sardine; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
          progress 74;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip Sardine.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.reserved; then \
      progress 94;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
        progress 98;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.reserved; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
          progress 98;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip app_gz.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#env
echo 'set some env';
showMessage 'Upgrading(4/4), set some env...' 7 14
progress 99
setenv softver '00.01.09.00.01'
setenv builddate '2019.10.29 18:31:33'
setenv bootcmd nandboot
showMessage 'Upgrade OK, please reboot.' 7 14
progress 100
saveenv
echo 'System download OK!';
##end##


FW 2.04
Code: [Select]
#upgrade_shell
#check version first
showMessage 'Upgrading(1/4), check version...' 7 14
if checkVer "00.01.09.00.01"; then \
  echo New version; \
else \
  echo Old version; \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, not new version!' 7 14;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;


#check all md5
progress 16
showMessage 'Upgrading(2/4), check images...' 7 14
progress 17
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} c1963c37d1742018cc1658103b48d969; then \
    echo check logo.bmp.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check logo.bmp.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 uImage.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 683c8c204a06c9d5a15535973e1b991d; then \
    echo check uImage.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check uImage.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find uImage.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 fdt.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 4b38335267ccfa51bfeb5c361d6ffb1c; then \
    echo check fdt.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check fdt.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find fdt.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 rootfs.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} c21426ba480b4cff028d819a7e2865a3; then \
    echo check rootfs.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check rootfs.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find rootfs.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 03a9b8fc7d6a86f08679809af56ca86a; then \
    echo check Sardine.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check Sardine.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} c1963c37d1742018cc1658103b48d969; then \
    echo check logo.bmp.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check logo.bmp.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} c1963c37d1742018cc1658103b48d969; then \
    echo check logo.bmp.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check logo.bmp.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 uImage.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 683c8c204a06c9d5a15535973e1b991d; then \
    echo check uImage.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check uImage.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find uImage.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 fdt.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 4b38335267ccfa51bfeb5c361d6ffb1c; then \
    echo check fdt.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check fdt.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find fdt.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if md5sum -v ${tar_find_addr} ${filesize} 74ce13e40ae4fd1535f02e4e88d730e2; then \
    echo check app_gz.img.gz success; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, bad images!' 7 14;\
    echo check app_gz.img.gz error; \
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar_find app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#update spi flash images
progress 19
showMessage 'Upgrading(3/4), flash images...' 7 14
#update nand images
mtdparts default;
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-def; then \
      progress 39;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-def ${filesize}; then \
        progress 43;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-def; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-def ${filesize}; then \
          progress 43;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip logo.bmp.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 uImage.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.kernel; then \
      progress 46;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.kernel ${filesize}; then \
        progress 50;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.kernel; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.kernel ${filesize}; then \
          progress 50;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip uImage.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar uImage.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 fdt.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.fdt; then \
      progress 54;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.fdt ${filesize}; then \
        progress 58;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.fdt; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.fdt ${filesize}; then \
          progress 58;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip fdt.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar fdt.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 rootfs.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.filesystem; then \
      progress 62;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.filesystem ${filesize}; then \
        progress 66;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.filesystem; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.filesystem ${filesize}; then \
          progress 66;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip rootfs.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar rootfs.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 Sardine.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.sardine; then \
      progress 70;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
        progress 74;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.sardine; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.sardine ${filesize}; then \
          progress 74;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip Sardine.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar Sardine.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-usr; then \
      progress 76;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-usr ${filesize}; then \
        progress 80;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-usr; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-usr ${filesize}; then \
          progress 80;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip logo.bmp.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 logo.bmp.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-def.bak; then \
      progress 82;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-def.bak ${filesize}; then \
        progress 86;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.bootpic-def.bak; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.bootpic-def.bak ${filesize}; then \
          progress 86;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip logo.bmp.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar logo.bmp.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 uImage.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.kernel.bak; then \
      progress 88;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.kernel.bak ${filesize}; then \
        progress 92;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.kernel.bak; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.kernel.bak ${filesize}; then \
          progress 92;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip uImage.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar uImage.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 fdt.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.fdt.bak; then \
      progress 94;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.fdt.bak ${filesize}; then \
        progress 98;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.fdt.bak; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.fdt.bak ${filesize}; then \
          progress 98;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip fdt.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar fdt.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;
if tar_find 0x88000000 app_gz.img.gz; then \
  if unzip ${tar_find_addr} 0x82000000 0x6000000; then \
    if nand erase.part NAND.reserved; then \
      progress 94;\
      if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
        progress 98;\
      else \
        nand erase.part NAND.reserved; \
        if nand write 0x82000000 NAND.reserved ${filesize}; then \
          progress 98;\
        else \
          showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
          exit_from_shell;\
        fi; \
      fi; \
    else \
      showMessage 'Upgrading failed, write failed!' 7 14;\
      exit_from_shell;\
    fi; \
  else \
    showMessage 'Upgrading failed, unzip image error!' 7 14;\
    echo unzip app_gz.img.gz error!;\
    exit_from_shell;\
  fi; \
else \
  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, image not found!' 7 14;\
  echo tar app_gz.img.gz error!;\
  exit_from_shell;\
fi;

#env
echo 'set some env';
showMessage 'Upgrading(4/4), set some env...' 7 14
progress 99
setenv softver '00.01.09.00.01'
setenv builddate '2020.02.18 08:59:53'
setenv bootcmd nandboot
setenv kernel_size '0x409000'
setenv kernel_check '0x1174efc5'
setenv fdt_size '0x9140'
setenv fdt_check '0x614e138a'
showMessage 'Upgrade OK, please reboot.' 7 14
progress 100
saveenv
echo 'System download OK!';
##end##


FW 2.04 seems to have many changes to the previous.

I wondering  how to patch this 1.08 script to downgrade my 2.02 unit. I get "ERROR: bad script!" message when trying to flash 1.08 FW.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 11, 2020, 01:16:23 pm
Also,  fw4linux.sh seems to be encoded using some other key.

So that you can better enjoy the quarantine period:     :D

BCD2FCFECB9AB54B12D2D4AFCAFD6E0D

BTW, IVs must be 0.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 11, 2020, 01:20:46 pm
Wow!

I've modified (commented with #) version check section of fw4uboot.sh, encoded it with open-ssl, updated SardineUpdate.GEL (haven't updated any headers) and reflashed with "Help" key at startup, and voila:

My DG811 ver 2.02 unit transformed to DG992 ver 1.08.01 without sending any SCPI commands. Serial number changed to DG8000000000001.

So, what is my next step? Do I need send change model command  with magic USB to flash next FWs?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 11, 2020, 01:29:03 pm
My DG811 ver 2.02 unit transformed to DG992 ver 1.08.01 without sending any SCPI commands. Serial number changed to DG8000000000001.

So, what is my next step? Do I need send change model command  with magic USB to flash next FWs?

First you must use IV = 0 or behavior can be strange...

Sure it did, that's normal behavior when you downgrade. Now you should correct the S/N and force model. Then re-upgrade. When you do that it should rollback to DG811...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 11, 2020, 01:46:37 pm
Quote from: tv84
First you must use IV = 0 or behavior can be strange...

Oh, that's right, thanks.  I guessed why firts string of decoded block is corrupted. I fixed previous post, need to use -iv "0" argument.

Quote from: tv84
Sure it did, that's normal behavior when you downgrade. Now you should correct the S/N and force model. Then re-upgrade. When you do that it should rollback to DG811...

UPDATE: successfully flashed to 2.02, but fail on 2.04 (model reset to 811). So, will stay on 2.02 FW.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 15, 2020, 06:43:06 pm
I was asked how to prepare custom firmware for downgrade firmware version.

Here is my mini how-to guide:

1. Get 1.08.01 official firmware (available at web.archive.org of rigolna.com website)
2. Use hex editor (HxD, for example), open SardineUpdate.GEL
3. You will see encrypted block of data at the begining, starting at 200h offset. Select this block and do "save selection"  to file fw4uboot.sh.aes (size 4016 bytes).
4. Decode file using command (under linux)
Code: [Select]
openssl aes-128-cbc -in  fw4uboot.sh.aes -out  fw4uboot.sh -d -K "BAD8CFFEBBAAB5C4C3D8D4BFCAFDBEDD" -iv "0" -nopad5. Edit decoded fw4uboot.sh. Comment ..if checkVer ...else ... fi rows like this (insert # characters):
Code: [Select]
#if checkVer "00.01.00.11.01"; then \
echo New version; \
#else \
#  echo New version; \
#  showMessage 'Upgrading failed, not new version!' 7 14;\
#fi;
6. Make sure total length of edited fw4uboot.sh is still 4016 bytes (if not, add or delete some characters in commented rows).
7. Encrypt edited fw4uboot.sh using command:
Code: [Select]
openssl aes-128-cbc -in  fw4uboot.sh -out  fw4uboot_new.sh.aes -K "BAD8CFFEBBAAB5C4C3D8D4BFCAFDBEDD" -iv "0" -nopad9. Using hex editor, update data block at 200h of SardineUpdate.GEL with encrypted fw4uboot_new.sh.aes
10.All done. Proceed flashing SardineUpdate.GEL to device (using "Help" key at boot method).

Next step is to use @tv84 guide. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391)

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 15, 2020, 07:02:44 pm
UPDATE: successfully flashed to 2.02, but fail on 2.04 (model reset to 811). So, will stay on 2.02 FW.

Which was your original version?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: evgbog on April 15, 2020, 07:13:00 pm
UPDATE: successfully flashed to 2.02, but fail on 2.04 (model reset to 811). So, will stay on 2.02 FW.

Which was your original version?

Original fw was 00.02.02.00.00.  s/n DGA8A220800XXX
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: stupiid on April 18, 2020, 03:34:29 pm
1. DG952 shipped with FW 01.09

2. downgrade to 01.08 following evgbog's guide, success

3. system info showing model 'DG992', SN lost

4. write model 'DG992', write original SN(DG9A2xxxx) by SCPI command, success

5. system info showing model 'DG992' with correct SN(DG9A2xxxx)

6. upgrade to 02.04, success

7. system info showing model 'DG811', with correct original SN(DG9A2xxxx)

8. downgrade to 01.08 following evgbog's guide, success

9. system info showing model 'DG992', with correct original SN(DG9A2xxxx)

10. upgrade to 02.04, success

11. system info showing model 'DG811', with correct original SN(DG9A2xxxx)




What's wrong?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thetechnick on April 18, 2020, 06:28:33 pm
What I have cached so far:

Devices that where delivered with v00.01.08.xx can be hacked and afterwards upgraded all the way to v00.02.04.xx.

Devices delivered with v00.01.09 and up can only be upgraded to v00.02.02.xx. If you upgrade those devices to v00.02.04.xx, the hack stops working.

---

Do we know if there is any difference between v00.02.02 and v00.02.04, except for the rewritten boot-scripts (that kills the hack)?
Looks like v00.02.02 was the feature/bugfix release, while v00.02.04 is just just closing the hack for now.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 19, 2020, 01:41:40 pm
RTFM!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3009384/#msg3009384 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3009384/#msg3009384)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on April 19, 2020, 04:46:25 pm
Hello
I have dg811 delivered with firmware 01.09,
with evgbog guide (THANKS evgbog :-)) I have downgrade to 01.08 fw, hack to DG992 and rewrite SN to original state
now in rigol website I find 02.04 firmware but i want to upgrade to 02.02 firmware, where can I find it?

thanks a lot

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: stupiid on April 20, 2020, 03:53:43 am
Well, it seems that @evgbog is the only one has FW 02.02 currently. Will you share it please?  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on April 24, 2020, 08:36:03 pm
follow this how-to mini guide by evgbog https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on April 26, 2020, 02:22:58 pm
Well, it seems that @evgbog is the only one has FW 02.02 currently. Will you share it please?  :-+

You can download F/W 02.02 from Rigol's firmware download page (https://int.rigol.com/SUPPORTS/software-firmware-download_1.html). Use the DG2000 link which contains identical hardware as the DG800/900 series in a different enclosure. Also same "internal" designation: "Sardine"  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 26, 2020, 05:33:36 pm
Link (https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/ct/1579/p-00ac/Bct/-/-/ct65_0/1?sid=TV2%3AQ2jKaGpUj).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thetechnick on April 26, 2020, 08:27:15 pm
Just wanted to add:
When you have unlocked your device successfully and then upgraded to v00.02.04 (and lost the unlock),
you can still install the linked v00.02.02 update and your device will be unlocked again.

Somehow nothing prevents downgrading from v00.02.04 to v00.02.02  :-+

Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: stupiid on April 27, 2020, 03:35:58 pm
Thanks! Upgraded successfully. :clap:

Still waiting the hack to 02.04.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 27, 2020, 03:40:29 pm
@tv84,

what did you mean by "Possible model types (as seen in the first 4 bytes of sd.xx configuration file)"
in the DG800 manual ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 27, 2020, 03:50:11 pm
@tv84,

what did you mean by "Possible model types (as seen in the first 4 bytes of sd.xx configuration file)"
in the DG800 manual ?

This is a file inside the DG which also has those "model numbers". But I think it's only informative. You cannot change model by only changing the file.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 27, 2020, 03:56:55 pm
@tv84,

what did you mean by "Possible model types (as seen in the first 4 bytes of sd.xx configuration file)"
in the DG800 manual ?

This is a file inside the DG which also has those "model numbers". But I think it's only informative. You cannot change model by only changing the file.

In DG firmware? In which part ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 27, 2020, 03:58:25 pm
In DG firmware? In which part ?

"Inside the DG" means in its file system.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 27, 2020, 04:03:50 pm
In DG firmware? In which part ?

"Inside the DG" means in its file system.

OK, do you need to make a file system dump?
If so, in what way ?

Or how can I browse this file system?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 27, 2020, 04:27:28 pm
You do a NAND backup with the script that I placed in this thread and then browse through the appropriate mtd.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 27, 2020, 04:33:59 pm
You do a NAND backup with the script that I placed in this thread and then browse through the appropriate mtd.

Everything is clear, thank you very much  :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Aztlanpz on April 27, 2020, 06:06:20 pm
can someone help me locate the firmware 1.08.01 for the DG800.  Thanks everyone I have located the file.


Thanks

Azltan
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 27, 2020, 06:20:25 pm
can someone help me locate the firmware 1.08.01 for the DG800



Thanks

Azltan

Last post on previous page, first point.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 27, 2020, 06:51:49 pm
Thanks! Upgraded successfully. :clap:

Still waiting the hack to 02.04.  :popcorn:

Can you try this:

You are in 2.02, right?  Upgrade to 2.04 and then send the SCPI command:

PROJ:SN <your_serial>

Reboot and report if there is any difference.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 27, 2020, 09:40:05 pm
I finally had a look at the v2.04 FW.

It seems all these models are possible:

00 - DG811
01 - DG821
02 - DG831
03 - DG812
04 - DG822
05 - DG832
06 - DG952
07 - DG972
08 - DG992
09 - DG2012
10 - DG2022
11 - DG2032
12 - DG2012-E
13 - DG2022-E
14 - DG2032-E
15 - DG2052
16 - DG2072
17 - DG2102


I think the 800/900 is USB0::0x1AB1::0x643  and 2000 is USB0::0x1AB1::0x644.

The licensing scheme is the same as in previous versions. One can use the PROJ:MODIF to change the model.


BTW, can someone explain me what's the difference between a DG992 and a DG2102?  (to see if we should upgrade to DG2102)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on April 27, 2020, 10:32:41 pm
BTW, can someone explain me what's the difference between a DG992 and a DG2102?  (to see if we should upgrade to DG2102)

In terms of datasheet:
- Built in HW LAN, as mentioned
- Burst characteristics -> carrier frequency: 2mHz to 30MHz vs 2mHz to 100MHz

Not sure if thats a typo or an actual limitation.

edit: can already set 100MHz sine in burst mode, so I don't believe there is a limitation.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on April 27, 2020, 11:16:41 pm
You are in 2.02, right?  Upgrade to 2.04 and then send the SCPI command:

PROJ:SN <your_serial>

Reboot and report if there is any difference.

I tried this and did not work, with or without the magic disk. I could 'up'grade back to 2.02.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on April 27, 2020, 11:19:39 pm
I found an old D-link USB network adapter DUB-E100 and it works with this series of function generators out of the box.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/403655-REG/D_Link_DUB_E100_DUB_E100_USB_2_0_10_100Mb.html (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/403655-REG/D_Link_DUB_E100_DUB_E100_USB_2_0_10_100Mb.html)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Ruediger on April 28, 2020, 06:02:49 am


BTW, can someone explain me what's the difference between a DG992 and a DG2102?  (to see if we should upgrade to DG2102)


Additional to the changes in burst there is also a lower disruptive discharge voltage (+- 5V) in DG2000 series
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 28, 2020, 08:43:52 am
Does anyone want to try a simple script to extract the app from the DG?

If so, report the FW version and CRC32 of the extracted file.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 29, 2020, 10:15:34 am
@tv84, how do you create a GEL file with sh scripts?
What tool does GEL file create?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on April 29, 2020, 11:42:41 am
@tv84, how do you create a GEL file with sh scripts?
What tool does GEL file create?

.GEL files are .tar files.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Orycho on April 29, 2020, 03:20:26 pm
Hi there,

I write some scripts to control my pumped Rigol DG812 (Thanks to tv84). I finally decide to write a user interface to edit the arbitrary waveform for the function generator.
Here are some images of the software. The software needs NI-VISA runtime to communicate with the Rigol device.
If you are interested, you can go to my website (https://dpzhu.me/deltaz) to download and play with the software. For further development, you can leave the comments here or on my website.

Derek Z.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on April 30, 2020, 09:45:52 am
@tv84, how do you create a GEL file with sh scripts?
What tool does GEL file create?

.GEL files are .tar files.

Thank you for confirmation.
I had a problem with tar implementation support under Windows.
It's OK now.  :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on May 18, 2020, 01:33:34 pm
Does anyone want to try a simple script to extract the app from the DG?

If so, report the FW version and CRC32 of the extracted file.

Hi,
I received DG811 today, with version FW 2.2.
NAND backup and NAND app. extract worked out correctly - thank you.
CRC32 for the extracted app is 5549a666.
Yours sincerely.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on May 18, 2020, 07:00:05 pm
DG800 / DG900 do not work with USB network cards on the AX88179 chipset:
https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=131;71;112 (https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=131;71;112)
  |O
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on May 20, 2020, 06:08:10 pm
DG800 / DG900 do not work with USB network cards on the AX88179 chipset:
https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=131;71;112 (https://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=131;71;112)
  |O

... but the USB card on the AX88772B chipset works very well  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on May 21, 2020, 03:54:35 pm
Hi,

either I'm doing something wrong, or help mode doesn't work in FW 2.2.
I have modified FW 1.8.0.1 several times as described, and there is no downgrade.
The GEL file is loaded, the device does not restart and version 2.2 remains.

Can anyone help me?

P.S.
Can anyone write how to launch Help Mode?
I don't have three dots under the RIGOL logo, but there is a progress bar during booting.

 |O
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on May 22, 2020, 07:32:09 pm
Hi,

either I'm doing something wrong, or help mode doesn't work in FW 2.2.
I have modified FW 1.8.0.1 several times as described, and there is no downgrade.
The GEL file is loaded, the device does not restart and version 2.2 remains.

Can anyone help me?

P.S.
Can anyone write how to launch Help Mode?
I don't have three dots under the RIGOL logo, but there is a progress bar during booting.

 |O

OK, I found information about FW Help Mode in another thread.
Now everything works fine.
Thank you very much to everyone who shared their knowledge.
Greetings.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on June 22, 2020, 10:02:25 pm
So my DG811 arrived and it's Firmware Vn 00.08.00.01 which means it should be OK for the magic USB upgrade right?

I have a 'magic' USB drive that worked on the DG1022Z and when I plug that in if the USB A port on the back, I see the USB symbol appear on the top right of the display but when I go into the store function it's not clear to me whether the drive is mounted as all I can see is C:

I installed Ultra Sigma on my PC and was able to connect to the DG811 by USB but the *IDN? command seems unreliable, I can send the command but often have to click read reply then send command and then read reply before I see the response "Rigol Technologies,DG811,DG8Axxxxxxxxx,00.01.08.00.01" - often it's an error message and, so far, my :PROJ:MODE DG992 commands haven't worked. I see the command echoed on the Ultra Sigma screen when I click on [Send] but I see nothing on the DG811 and power cycling always gets me back to DG811 - some questions:

1. Is the magic USB drive different for the DG800 series than the one I made that works on the DP832?
2. Am I supposed to see a different drive letter on my DG811 after I plug in the magic USB drive?

I will try a different USB drive tomorrow but I don't have an up to date Linux machine ready. Any ideas or suggestions?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on June 22, 2020, 10:09:02 pm
The DG800 USB disk has nothing to do with the DP800!!! (Where did you get that idea?)

Use my 1st upgrade post only as instructions.

And don't upgrade any FW BEFORE you get yourself a DG992 machine.



Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on June 22, 2020, 10:13:05 pm
Hint: Here's the post @tv84 is talking about. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on June 23, 2020, 12:53:36 am
It was a massive assumption but I assumed that the Rigol code was making the same check to the drive as the DP832.  Anyway, now I know that's not the case, I have a path forward.

Thanks.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: randphysguy on June 23, 2020, 08:14:47 am
Could someone reupload the 1.08.01 official firmware?
I think it is not available through the web archive of Rigol's webpage anymore.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on June 23, 2020, 09:04:56 am
Could someone reupload the 1.08.01 official firmware?
I think it is not available through the web archive of Rigol's webpage anymore.

It's still in the archive https://web.archive.org/web/20190820203337/https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20190820203337/https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on June 23, 2020, 12:43:04 pm
So I followed the steps in this post back on page 10 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2537358/#msg2537358) and was successful.  Everything was done on a Windows 10 64 bit PC.

The following slight variations might be useful to someone.  In the HxD editor, after getting to sector 2000000, I was unable to paste the sequence 0B 0A 3B 2E 5F 4C EC BE so I just typed it in then clicked on [Save].  The drive was an older 8 GByte drive that came from a trade show with a TI logo on it, I full-formatted it as FAT32 first using Windows Explorer.  I used Rigol's Ultra Sigma code to communicate via USB - Ultra Sigma was a 500 MByte download which could be a problem for some.

In the post I linked above, thm_w talks about using Ethernet at the end but, although I have an USB-Ethernet adapter that works with the DG811 and I can communicate with the DG811 using "Telnet xx.xx.xx.xx 5555", I don't see how you can issue the SCPI command to change MODEl using the Ethernet adapter as it only seems to work on the USB Type A port on the back and that leaves no place for the magic drive.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: randphysguy on June 23, 2020, 01:44:13 pm

It's still in the archive

My mistake. Thanks for pointing to it. :)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on June 27, 2020, 03:26:02 am
Do we know if there is any difference between v00.02.02 and v00.02.04, except for the rewritten boot-scripts (that kills the hack)?
Looks like v00.02.02 was the feature/bugfix release, while v00.02.04 is just just closing the hack for now.
I checked that v00.02.02 still has the offset bug, where the output goes negative for a few msec when it is turned on with an offset.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on July 01, 2020, 05:33:16 pm
Received the Rigol DG811 with firmware 02.04 (latest) and I can confirm that the following works:


Thanks all for the instructions.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 01, 2020, 05:40:43 pm
Thanks all for the instructions.

Do you want to do a new experiment?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on July 01, 2020, 05:51:49 pm
Thanks all for the instructions.

Do you want to do a new experiment?

I am always up for experiments.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on July 01, 2020, 05:54:45 pm
Do we know if there is any difference between v00.02.02 and v00.02.04, except for the rewritten boot-scripts (that kills the hack)?
Looks like v00.02.02 was the feature/bugfix release, while v00.02.04 is just just closing the hack for now.
I checked that v00.02.02 still has the offset bug, where the output goes negative for a few msec when it is turned on with an offset.

You will have to wait for someone to share the solution for FW 02.04.
I am also currently on FW 02.02.
I tried to analyze the main app but found no solution.  :(
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 04, 2020, 10:36:45 am
I tried to analyze the main app but found no solution.  :(

As requested, here is an image of the MTD13 of a stock DG832_fw00.01.08.00.01.

Code: [Select]
sd.xx file format:
04 bytes - model type
14 bytes - S/N encoded (if num +0x4F ; if letter +0x48)
02 bytes - CRC16  = calc_CRC16(0x1021, 0xEBCC, 0, false, false, ref buffer, start, end)

The _pubkey.tet is the brainpoolP256t1 ECC public key. It's different for each DG.

The MTD13 of a stock DG8xx_fw00.01.09.00.00 has no files !   ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on July 04, 2020, 03:04:22 pm
TV84 did it again!

The latest version of 1.08 downgrade (v5) keeps your "tweaks" to the model number when upgrading to 2.04:

Code: [Select]
* Connected to: TCPIP::192.168.1.75::INSTR
-> *IDN?
<- (Return Count:55)
Rigol Technologies,DG992,DG8A123456789,00.01.08.00.01

-> :PROJ:MODE DG992
-> *IDN?
<- (Return Count:55)
Rigol Technologies,DG992,DG8A123456789,00.01.08.00.01


------------- flash 2.04 and reboot -----------------


 * Connected to: TCPIP::192.168.1.75::INSTR
-> *IDN?
<- (Return Count:55)
Rigol Technologies,DG992,DG8A123456789,00.02.04.00.00

Just to be clear, my serial is not 123456789 and my model according to the store invoice is not a DG992.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 04, 2020, 03:23:02 pm
I was the enabler that helped but the true discoverer of this alternative method was bulba99.  :clap:

(when he told me the simple operation he had tried I was sure that he had solved it...)

I crafted this script so that all who were waiting this last step can finish the 2.04 upgrade.

This is a supplement to the rest of the upgrade process not a replacement!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on July 04, 2020, 03:31:36 pm
The true discoverer of this alternative method was bulba99.  :clap:
Dziękuję serdecznie!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on July 04, 2020, 03:39:24 pm
The true discoverer of this alternative method was bulba99.  :clap:
Dziękuję serdecznie!

Proszę bardzo  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on July 04, 2020, 04:12:12 pm
I can also confirm that it worked and I now have a DG811 "upgraded" to DG992 running firmware 2.04.

For me the process of downgrading with 1.08.00.01 v5 and then upgrading to 2.04 did not work and resulted in the device becoming a DG811 again. But after using the  Finish_Upgrade_2.04 script the device reverted back to being a DG992.

Thank you bulba99 and tv84!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: netdudeuk on July 04, 2020, 04:30:57 pm
I can also confirm that it worked and I now have a DG811 "upgraded" to DG992 running firmware 2.04.

For me the process of downgrading with 1.08.00.01 v5 and then upgrading to 2.04 did not work and resulted in the device becoming a DG811 again. But after using the  Finish_Upgrade_2.04 script the device reverted back to being a DG992.

Thank you bulba99 and tv84!

So a £215 instrument now works exactly like a £976 instrument ?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on July 04, 2020, 04:36:25 pm
I can also confirm that it worked and I now have a DG811 "upgraded" to DG992 running firmware 2.04.

For me the process of downgrading with 1.08.00.01 v5 and then upgrading to 2.04 did not work and resulted in the device becoming a DG811 again. But after using the  Finish_Upgrade_2.04 script the device reverted back to being a DG992.

Thank you bulba99 and tv84!

So a £215 instrument now works exactly like a £976 instrument ?

It's not exactly like that. The DG8XX instruments are calibrated up to 40MHz. Frequencies above that provide weird waveforms. I haven't personally tested that but there are a few posts discussing it in this thread. In theory, if we find out the calibration procedure/mechanism then it should be possible to calibrate DG8XX devices to the DG9XX standard.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on July 04, 2020, 04:53:31 pm
So my DG811 came with fw vn 00.01.08.00.01 and I was able to upgrade to DG992 (and keep my serial number) with the magic USB drive but TV84's version of 01.08 was never installed on mine so what should I do to get to 02.04?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 04, 2020, 05:00:54 pm
so what should I do to get to 02.04?

If you already upgraded yours to DG992 you can flash 2.04 without problems.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on July 04, 2020, 05:04:46 pm
I can also confirm that it worked and I now have a DG811 "upgraded" to DG992 running firmware 2.04.

For me the process of downgrading with 1.08.00.01 v5 and then upgrading to 2.04 did not work and resulted in the device becoming a DG811 again. But after using the  Finish_Upgrade_2.04 script the device reverted back to being a DG992.

Thank you bulba99 and tv84!
Just to confirm, after installing version 2.04, you put the Finish_Upgrade.GEL file on memory stick and performed the firmware upgrade?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Powernun on July 04, 2020, 05:09:15 pm
I can also confirm that it worked and I now have a DG811 "upgraded" to DG992 running firmware 2.04.

For me the process of downgrading with 1.08.00.01 v5 and then upgrading to 2.04 did not work and resulted in the device becoming a DG811 again. But after using the  Finish_Upgrade_2.04 script the device reverted back to being a DG992.

Thank you bulba99 and tv84!
Just to confirm, after installing version 2.04, you put the Finish_Upgrade.GEL file on memory stick and performed the firmware upgrade?

Yes, I did the one with the device booted:

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 06, 2020, 06:33:10 pm
Damn!

DAVID, the forum needs a deep patch!   :palm:

My msg here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264) has an attachment that has nothing to do with what I attached and that many people were able to download. Now it's become an attachment that I made in another thread!  :wtf:

Guys, I don't have access to my initial file at the moment. I'll (try to) correct it when I get back home.

DON'T FLASH IT.  (It should do no harm but...)  I've reported this to Dave.

Many of you know that some of my attachments execute some changes to the equipments. By chance the file  that replaced the initial one is inocuous (in a DG800/900) BUT what if it wasn't...   :-BROKE

EDIT: I re-attached a correct file. (The forum still has an attachments bug and I haven't heard from Dave about it...)
Title: LAN static IP problems
Post by: jhenderson0107 on July 06, 2020, 10:53:39 pm
Configuring the DG992 (firmware 00.01.08.00.01) for LAN communications using a known-available static IP, it reports 'lan connection successful' on the GUI after booting.  However, subsequent communications attempts are unsuccessful.  Pings fail and the device cannot be detected as an LXI device on the network using NI MAX.  Several different uncommitted static IP addresses were tried and also behave identically.  However, configuring the instrument to use a DHCP -assigned address allows it respond and be controlled as expected.  Has anyone else observed this behavior? 
Title: Re: LAN static IP problems
Post by: bulba99 on July 10, 2020, 03:51:48 pm
Has anyone else observed this behavior?

With firmware 02.04 it works fine.
DHCP=Off, AutoIP=Off, ManualIP=On
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jhenderson0107 on July 10, 2020, 04:40:45 pm
Thanks bulba99, I'll give it a try. 
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: klamath on July 12, 2020, 08:55:32 pm
b]EDIT: I re-attached a correct file. (The forum still has an attachments bug and I haven't heard from Dave about it...)[/b]

many tanks tv84, your patch works very well,

the ultimade upgrade how-to mini guide:

dgXXX with oem firmware = 01.08
in 01.08 firmware follow tv84 guide https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391, (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391,) then upgrade to the latest firmware.


dgXXX with oem firmware => 01.09
1) downgrade with 01.08 cwf (many thanks evgbog. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342))

2) change model type (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420391/#msg2420391))

3) apply tv84 ultimade patch (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264))

NB: I'have apply this patch in 02.02 firmware, but i don't knows if it work in any firmware, need more test.

4) upgrade to the latest firmware 02.04

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on July 13, 2020, 08:46:04 am
Damn!

DAVID, the forum needs a deep patch!   :palm:

EDIT: I re-attached a correct file. (The forum still has an attachments bug and I haven't heard from Dave about it...)

Probably Dave took some used hardware from his "Dumpster Findings"!  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on July 23, 2020, 01:58:27 pm
Recently I've acquired DG812. While playing with it I've connected 0/10V square wave from its output to counter input not realizing that it is rated to only +-2.5V (wtf??? cannot even tolerate its own output? :palm:). Counter didn't work and I cannot get it to work. It shows something only at the exact moment of connecting cable to counter input and after that it shows 0. Have I fried counter input? Looking at teardown photos in this thread I see 49.9R series resistor and some limiting diodes on counter input. I think it should survive "slight" overvoltage or am I wrong?

Edit: After some fiddling with settings I've managed to get the counter working but only when coupling is set to DC. On ac coupling it doesn't work o matter what.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on July 24, 2020, 12:22:05 am
Recently I've acquired DG812. While playing with it I've connected 0/10V square wave from its output to counter input not realizing that it is rated to only +-2.5V (wtf??? cannot even tolerate its own output? :palm:). Counter didn't work and I cannot get it to work. It shows something only at the exact moment of connecting cable to counter input and after that it shows 0. Have I fried counter input? Looking at teardown photos in this thread I see 49.9R series resistor and some limiting diodes on counter input. I think it should survive "slight" overvoltage or am I wrong?

Edit: After some fiddling with settings I've managed to get the counter working but only when coupling is set to DC. On ac coupling it doesn't work o matter what.

2.5V is the trigger voltage, not the input range.
I don't think many people are using it as a counter.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on July 24, 2020, 11:35:06 am
2.5V is the trigger voltage, not the input range.
I don't think many people are using it as a counter.

Front panel label as well as User Manual dares to disagree.
[attachimg=1]
Wonder what "Disruptive Discharge Voltage" means :-DD It is also very nice that parameters in datasheet don't match user manual and label on the instrument :palm:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: thm_w on July 24, 2020, 10:28:31 pm
Front panel label as well as User Manual dares to disagree.

Wonder what "Disruptive Discharge Voltage" means :-DD It is also very nice that parameters in datasheet don't match user manual and label on the instrument :palm:

Yeah you are right.

If we look at Toms great teardown photos: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2419776/#msg2419776 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2419776/#msg2419776)
Input goes through a 50R resistor, into a "JY" SOT23, then splits off into some R/C and B4U SOT23 and TL072.
JY appears to be BAV199.

So whatever +/- rails its clamping to should be the limit of the input.
Whether those are the main instrument rails, or only ~+/-8V as the manual implies, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on July 24, 2020, 11:20:43 pm
Counter is completely shit on them and the DG1000Z units. I would just stick a cap on it and not use it.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: ultranalog on July 25, 2020, 12:42:36 pm
It sounds to me that 'disruptive discharge' means they've tested it to withstand over voltage pulses to 7V.

Good thing I've only used it with a 10x probe so far...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bitseeker on July 25, 2020, 02:57:06 pm
Counter is completely shit on them and the DG1000Z units. I would just stick a cap on it and not use it.

Mine hasn't been uncapped since unboxing. :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on July 26, 2020, 06:14:29 pm
Counter is completely shit on them and the DG1000Z units. I would just stick a cap on it and not use it.

Can you elaborate why? At least it has gate time option and 9 digits so it is slightly better than counter in MSO5000. Mine is not working on AC coupling :-BROKE
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on July 26, 2020, 07:08:13 pm
As I have just successfully upgraded my DG812 to DG992 I would like to post yet another summary of the required steps.

0. Note your DG's serial number if you care.

1. If you have software version higher than 00.01.08.xx.xx you need to downgrade to version 1.08 using specially modified GEL file to allow downgrade (as described by evgbog here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342)).
My contribution is that I've prepared modified GEL file, available here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16nC-uJ12MXilJElv4Eukvt1IW4RzGdb7/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16nC-uJ12MXilJElv4Eukvt1IW4RzGdb7/view?usp=sharing)
Put the file on USB stick, plug it into your DG and accept "update" when popup shows. WARNING! This "upgrade" will reset your SN to DG80000000001 but convert your unit into DG992 immediately. This is the effect of the downgrade itself - the firmware is official Rigol firmware. The modification only changes the boot script to allow downgrade.

As a side note, I don't see a point in using hex editor in evgbog method of preparing the GEL. Those GELs are tar files as mentioned by tv84. I prepared the file by simply untaring it, decrypting fw4uboot.sh, modifying it, encrypting it back (you need to maintain file size) and finally TARing everything back into GEL file using 7zip.

2. Prepare a "magic" USB stick. Format USB stick as FAT32 (stick MUST BE BIGGER than 1GB). Open it in HxD editor as LOGICAL DISK (not physical disk - I did that mistake) Tools->Open Disk (uncheck "open as readonly"). Jump to sector 2000000 (sector field is at the top right corner). Enter value manually or use "Paste write" in edit menu (Ctrl+B). Magic value: 0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE

3. Insert the magic stick into DG (make sure it is recognized and USB icon is shown) and connect the instrument with the computer (using USB A-B cable and downloading Rigol's bloatware UltraSigma is the easiest way). Open SCPI command panel, check communication by issuing *IDN? command (use Send & Read). Send command :PROJ:SN DGxxxxxxxxxx with your correct SN number noted in step 0 (use Send command, DO NOT USE Send & Read). Verify if it worked by sending another *IDN? command - it should report back with correct serial number. Now send command :PROJ:MODE DG992. You can disconnect the instrument from PC and remove USB stick.

4. Edit: This step is only needed if your purchase version was higher than v1.08 and you did step 1 Download tv84's "Finish_Upgrade_2.04.zip" from this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264)
Put this GEL file on USB stick, plug into DG and confirm update when popup shows.

5. Download official 2.04 firmware from Rigol: https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar (https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar)
No logging in required :-DD
Put GEL file on USB stick (delete the previous one), upgrade DG and enjoy ;D
Serial number should be kept and model should be DG992.

All credits go to tv84, bulba99, evgbog and others who helped to create this hack!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 26, 2020, 08:01:50 pm
As I have just successfully upgraded my DG812 to DG992 I would like to post yet another summary of the required steps.

Generically, I think that sums it up.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Luckygecko on July 31, 2020, 09:04:50 pm
My notes based on Vtech's post (and other's work). There were a couple of little things I was not sure of, so I cover them here in case others have the same questions. I'm grateful for the hard work of others making this possible.  ( My unit DG821 just bought on current --July 2020-- 'clearance' $251USD was on version 1.08 )
[attach=1]

Since mine came with version 1.08 already, I could skip to step two on Vtech's list.

2. Prepare a "magic" USB stick. Format USB stick as FAT32 (stick MUST BE BIGGER than 1GB). Open it in HxD editor as LOGICAL DISK (not physical disk - I did that mistake) Tools->Open Disk (uncheck "open as readonly"). Jump to sector 2000000 (sector field is at the top right corner). Enter value manually or use "Paste write" in edit menu (Ctrl+B). Magic value: 0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE

I did this from Windows 10.  For good measure I DISKPART cleaned the drive, Disk Manager simple volume and formated it FAT32. Used Tools menu in HxD64 to open drive H: (your dive will/may be different. Make sure you have the correct one selected) (16gb Sandisk Cruzer in my case) went to sector offset 2000000 and manually entered the hex string. File menu save. Exited HxD64 and used Windows File Explorer to eject the disk safely.  Note, there were no other files on the disk, you do not need to write any image onto the file. Just make those hex changes to the sector offset.
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]

While the DG821 was running, I inserted the usb thumb drive. A "waiting' popup appeard and the USB icon appeared into the upper right.


3. Insert the magic stick into DG (make sure it is recognized and USB icon is shown) and connect the instrument with the computer (using USB A-B cable and downloading Rigol's bloatware UltraSigma is the easiest way). Open SCPI command panel, check communication by issuing *IDN? command (use Send & Read). Send command :PROJ:SN DGxxxxxxxxxx with your correct SN number noted in step 0 (use Send command, DO NOT USE Send & Read). Verify if it worked by sending another *IDN? command - it should report back with correct serial number. Now send command :PROJ:MODE DG992. You can disconnect the instrument from PC and remove USB stick.

I connected it to the PC and used the SCPI Command function of Ultra Sigma. 

(This text is from ultranalog's post with my notes())

Code: [Select]
-> *IDN?              (Use Send and Receive button)
<- (Return Count:55)
Rigol Technologies,DG821,DG8A123456789,00.01.08.00.01

-> :PROJ:MODE DG992   (Send button only)
-> *IDN?                        (Use Send and Receive button)
<- (Return Count:55)
Rigol Technologies,DG992,DG8A123456789,00.01.08.00.01

 I removed the cable. I had to do a power off at this point.  I powered back on the unit and the screen text background changed to red/orange colors and I could see the icon for channel two. 

SEE TV84's post below: I did not need this step:


Step 4. Finish_Upgrade_2.04.zip is only needed if your purchase version was higher than v1.08.
4. Download tv84's "Finish_Upgrade_2.04.zip" from this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264)
Put this GEL file on USB stick, plug into DG and confirm update when popup shows.


Unit will reboot on it's on at this point.

I copied and overwrote tv84's patch with the larger factory firmware. I turned the unit off and let it boot again before doing final upgrade.


5. Download official 2.04 firmware from Rigol: https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/ (https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/)软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar
No logging in required :-DD
Put GEL file on USB stick (delete the previous one), upgrade DG and enjoy ;D
Serial number should be kept and model should be DG992.

All credits go to tv84, bulba99, evgbog and others who helped to create this hack!


I inserted the USB while the unit was running. It was in 'waiting' mode for a while, be patient. Select yes to the update prompt (don't forget that it is simple as using the touch screen).  Then the unit automatically rebooted and started writing the firmware flash space. I removed the USB after the screen went black during reboot. I powered off once again when it was finished and powered up I'm left with this success: 


[attach=2]

[attach=3]


(I can remove that little while option cap)
[attach=4]

(soapbox)
I am pleased. While currently I understand (based on other's tests) the unit is more on par with DG952, that is more than fine with my use. If DG952 performance, I gained a second channel, extra memory, and double the signal rate/sample rate. 

Currently in the states the DG821 is a couple dollars cheaper than the DG811.    I'm assuming they are the same hardware, but at least in the case of the DG821 you know it factory tested at 25Mhz.     Ethically, I feel I'm in a gray area with this weird software limited hardware.   But, I'm not using mine for profit so I don't see it much different than performance tuning 'unlocks' on a car.    Rigol did not lose any money in my case.  I would have adapted my personal learning projects to the equipment I could afford (DG821) because I did not have the budget for more. In a way, this makes me like their product better.
(/soapbox)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on July 31, 2020, 09:12:43 pm
Step 4. Finish_Upgrade_2.04.zip is only needed if your purchase version was higher than v1.08.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Luckygecko on July 31, 2020, 09:15:24 pm
Well, I'm glad I did not brick it.   That's information I missed.  I updated my post with your information. 
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: AZTLAN on August 01, 2020, 06:58:44 pm
Can anyone post the complete backup of the firmware.  I think my firmware is corrupt i have firmware 1.08.00.01  |O



Thanks
Aztlan
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 05, 2020, 11:14:37 pm
As I have just successfully upgraded my DG812 to DG992 I would like to post yet another summary of the required steps.

0. Note your DG's serial number if you care.

1. If you have software version higher than 00.01.08.xx.xx you need to downgrade to version 1.08 using specially modified GEL file to allow downgrade (as described by evgbog here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3017342/#msg3017342)).
My contribution is that I've prepared modified GEL file, available here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16nC-uJ12MXilJElv4Eukvt1IW4RzGdb7/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/16nC-uJ12MXilJElv4Eukvt1IW4RzGdb7/view?usp=sharing)
Put the file on USB stick, plug it into your DG and accept "update" when popup shows. WARNING! This "upgrade" will reset your SN to DG80000000001 but convert your unit into DG992 immediately. This is the effect of the downgrade itself - the firmware is official Rigol firmware. The modification only changes the boot script to allow downgrade.

As a side note, I don't see a point in using hex editor in evgbog method of preparing the GEL. Those GELs are tar files as mentioned by tv84. I prepared the file by simply untaring it, decrypting fw4uboot.sh, modifying it, encrypting it back (you need to maintain file size) and finally TARing everything back into GEL file using 7zip.

2. Prepare a "magic" USB stick. Format USB stick as FAT32 (stick MUST BE BIGGER than 1GB). Open it in HxD editor as LOGICAL DISK (not physical disk - I did that mistake) Tools->Open Disk (uncheck "open as readonly"). Jump to sector 2000000 (sector field is at the top right corner). Enter value manually or use "Paste write" in edit menu (Ctrl+B). Magic value: 0B0A3B2E5F4CECBE

3. Insert the magic stick into DG (make sure it is recognized and USB icon is shown) and connect the instrument with the computer (using USB A-B cable and downloading Rigol's bloatware UltraSigma is the easiest way). Open SCPI command panel, check communication by issuing *IDN? command (use Send & Read). Send command :PROJ:SN DGxxxxxxxxxx with your correct SN number noted in step 0 (use Send command, DO NOT USE Send & Read). Verify if it worked by sending another *IDN? command - it should report back with correct serial number. Now send command :PROJ:MODE DG992. You can disconnect the instrument from PC and remove USB stick.

4. Edit: This step is only needed if your purchase version was higher than v1.08 and you did step 1 Download tv84's "Finish_Upgrade_2.04.zip" from this post: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264)
Put this GEL file on USB stick, plug into DG and confirm update when popup shows.

5. Download official 2.04 firmware from Rigol: https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar (https://int.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DG/软固件/SardineII(ARM)Update-v00.02.04.00.00.rar)
No logging in required :-DD
Put GEL file on USB stick (delete the previous one), upgrade DG and enjoy ;D
Serial number should be kept and model should be DG992.

All credits go to tv84, bulba99, evgbog and others who helped to create this hack!
Maybe I am missing something, but if you have the DG811 with any firmware version, then upgrade to 2.04, then downgrade to 2.02 you end up with a DG992 with the original serial number...

What is the point of downgrading all the way to 1.08?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Luckygecko on August 06, 2020, 01:48:44 am
Maybe I am missing something, but if you have the DG811 with any firmware version, then upgrade to 2.04, then downgrade to 2.02 you end up with a DG992 with the original serial number...

What is the point of downgrading all the way to 1.08?

I've not read this whole mega thread, but Rigol either patched the firmware to 'fix' this model change issue or the firmware has a new private key so the 'magic' service USB trick no longer works on firmware later than 1.08.    With firmware 1.08 using the USB drive with the correct code in the right sector makes the unit that one is doing factory maintenance the best I can tell.  This allows commands not normally allowed.  One of them being the model change.  I would assume this allows Rigol or a service center to replace your main board and then set your orginal serial number and model to the replacement.  This way they don't have to make a board for each different model.   (it is also a cost savings at the factory/in design). 

Here is an earlier post:
I'm going to declare that the hack is closed or changed in firmware version 00.01.09.00.00
At least until the clever people can get hold of the firmware and take a look at it.
....
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Luckygecko on August 06, 2020, 04:08:29 am
I had a moment to try a USB Ethernet adapter.  Went to the 'junk' drawer and pulled one out. It had a USB C connector so I had to use an USB C to A adapter. Nevertheless, it worked.  Windows 10 gives it this information: (Realtek controller)


USB\VID_0BDA&PID_8153&REV_3000

Hope this is helpful.  I left settings at default.

[attach=1]
[attach=2]
[attach=3]
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 06, 2020, 05:48:12 am
Maybe I am missing something, but if you have the DG811 with any firmware version, then upgrade to 2.04, then downgrade to 2.02 you end up with a DG992 with the original serial number...

What is the point of downgrading all the way to 1.08?

I've not read this whole mega thread, but Rigol either patched the firmware to 'fix' this model change issue or the firmware has a new private key so the 'magic' service USB trick no longer works on firmware later than 1.08.    With firmware 1.08 using the USB drive with the correct code in the right sector makes the unit that one is doing factory maintenance the best I can tell.  This allows commands not normally allowed.  One of them being the model change.  I would assume this allows Rigol or a service center to replace your main board and then set your orginal serial number and model to the replacement.  This way they don't have to make a board for each different model.   (it is also a cost savings at the factory/in design). 

Here is an earlier post:
I'm going to declare that the hack is closed or changed in firmware version 00.01.09.00.00
At least until the clever people can get hold of the firmware and take a look at it.
....
i started with a DG811 with 2.04. Downloaded and installed 2.02 as it is allowed by 2.04. My unit converted automatically to a DG992 with the original serial number. No need to patch anything
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on August 06, 2020, 07:02:42 am
i started with a DG811 with 2.04. Downloaded and installed 2.02 as it is allowed by 2.04. My unit converted automatically to a DG992 with the original serial number. No need to patch anything

Rigol hacked itself  :-DD

I assume that without all the steps (downgrading to 1.08, changing model and applying "finish upgrade") the model change won't survive firmware upgrade. Following all the steps you have permanent change - you can upgrade the firmware and the model will stay the same (DG992).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 06, 2020, 08:17:05 am
i started with a DG811 with 2.04. Downloaded and installed 2.02 as it is allowed by 2.04. My unit converted automatically to a DG992 with the original serial number. No need to patch anything

 :wtf: And you think that's an achievement? You're downgrading...

I assume that without all the steps (downgrading to 1.08, changing model and applying "finish upgrade") the model change won't survive firmware upgrade. Following all the steps you have permanent change - you can upgrade the firmware and the model will stay the same (DG992).

You assume well. There's also the MODF way...  ;)



Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 06, 2020, 03:26:39 pm
i started with a DG811 with 2.04. Downloaded and installed 2.02 as it is allowed by 2.04. My unit converted automatically to a DG992 with the original serial number. No need to patch anything

 :wtf: And you think that's an achievement? You're downgrading...

I am not saying it is an achievement.  It all depends on your objectives... if you just want to have a DG992 with not the latest firmware (Rigol does not update it very frequently, anyway), this is the easiest path.  I tried applying 1.08 modified... but my unit kept at 2.04, the hack did not work.  Then I decided to downgrade to 2.02 and hack from there, but I realized the unit already was a DG992 with the original serial number... my objective was satisfied.  I will try installing 2.04 later today and see if it keeps the hack or not. 
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 06, 2020, 03:36:18 pm
I will try installing 2.04 later today and see if it keeps the hack or not.

Before trying that, run this (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 06, 2020, 07:01:51 pm
I will try installing 2.04 later today and see if it keeps the hack or not.

Before trying that, run this (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264).
Installing directly 2.04 did not keep the hack.  Installed 2.02 back and device is DG992.  Installed SardineUpdateFinishUpgrade.GEL (it does not run like a valid install, it stays in the same state, asking again if I want to upgrade, does not reboot).  Then install 2.04 and it reverts to DG811.  It was the same symptom when trying to use 1.08 modified, it never installed.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 06, 2020, 07:30:14 pm
Execute the procedure as listed by Vtech and it should work.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 06, 2020, 09:11:48 pm
You mean all the process described by Vtech from 0 to 5?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 06, 2020, 09:15:34 pm
You mean all the process described by Vtech from 0 to 5?

Yep.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Martian Tech on August 08, 2020, 01:31:39 am
A bit off the main topic of discussion, but just wondering if anyone else has tried operating one of these with an external timebase?  With mine, it runs OK for a while, then switches back to the internal timebase.  My source is a buffered OCXO, and the output voltage is within spec.  BUT I'm running 1.08 firmware - wondering if maybe upgrading to new firmware will fix it?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: dave3533 on August 11, 2020, 04:55:08 pm
Is there a preferred base model (eg, DG811, 812, etc) to attempt the model change/firmware update?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 11, 2020, 05:03:40 pm
Is there a preferred base model (eg, DG811, 812, etc) to attempt the model change/firmware update?

Indifferent.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 12, 2020, 12:09:26 am
Is there a preferred base model (eg, DG811, 812, etc) to attempt the model change/firmware update?

Indifferent.
The cheapest one
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 12, 2020, 07:01:15 pm
This script replaces the previous one and also downloads the calibration files so that people can analyse them.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 14, 2020, 03:25:17 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 14, 2020, 04:00:38 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
Did you add a 50ohm termination to the scope input?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Martian Tech on August 14, 2020, 04:10:24 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
What is the bandwidth of your oscilloscope?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 14, 2020, 04:30:41 pm
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?

Uncalibrated.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Martian Tech on August 14, 2020, 05:13:19 pm
Wait, back up - is the question why is the output not relatively flat across the frequency range, or why is it different than what was reported by timber23 in reply #199 of this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2427906/#msg2427906 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2427906/#msg2427906))?

FWIW: I just checked mine (DG822 received w/firmware ver 1.08 -> Agilent DSO6034A 300MHz oscilloscope), and my results pretty closely match timber23's.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 14, 2020, 05:55:34 pm
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?

Uncalibrated.
How to calibrate?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 14, 2020, 05:57:11 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
Did you add a 50ohm termination to the scope input?
High resistance,Not 50Ω
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 14, 2020, 05:59:56 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
What is the bandwidth of your oscilloscope?
Oscilloscope bandwidth is 100MHz,DS1074Z ↑ DS1104Z
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 14, 2020, 06:33:17 pm
How to calibrate?

Not publicly known.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Martian Tech on August 14, 2020, 07:14:32 pm
Oscilloscope bandwidth is 100MHz

OK, that explains part of what you're seeing.  The bandwidth is the point at which the response drops to -3dB, so that is affecting your readings and giving more apparent falloff than is actually there.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 14, 2020, 07:21:48 pm
Hello everyone!
My DG811 version is 00.02.04.00.00, and I upgraded to 992 according to the method provided by Vtech.
But the output voltage is very different. What is the reason?
What is the bandwidth of your oscilloscope?
Oscilloscope bandwidth is 100MHz,DS1074Z ↑ DS1104Z
I tested on my setup (DG811 -> DG992), GW Instek GDS1054B scope (50MHz -> 100MHz) and I get 1.2Vpp with HighZ, direct BNC to BNC connection
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on August 14, 2020, 07:49:25 pm
Also ignoring the high Z input, if that scope input is 18pf at 100Mhz that’s a reactance of 88 ohms approx so you’ve got a voltage divider against the 50 ohms source there as well as the 3dB bandwidth fall off to contend with.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 15, 2020, 03:37:10 am
Please advise, after upgrading to 992, will the sampling rate be 250MSa/s? Is the waveform length 16Mpts?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on August 15, 2020, 07:59:48 am
Yes and yes...  :) Read here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2420769/#msg2420769) and the few following contributions. Btw, 250MSa/s it always was, on all instruments throughout the range. There's been some inconsistency regarding this issue in Rigol's documentation/advertising.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Martian Tech on August 17, 2020, 01:03:47 am
A bit off the main topic of discussion, but just wondering if anyone else has tried operating one of these with an external timebase?  With mine, it runs OK for a while, then switches back to the internal timebase.  My source is a buffered OCXO, and the output voltage is within spec.  BUT I'm running 1.08 firmware - wondering if maybe upgrading to new firmware will fix it?

OK, I finally got around to acquiring a USB thumb drive that I could use to upgrade, so I can answer my own question.  Upgraded from 1.08 to 2.04 firmware, and the external reference works reliably now.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on August 17, 2020, 03:10:39 pm
Is the DG811 hackable on all firmware revisions at the moment?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 17, 2020, 03:26:03 pm
Is the DG811 hackable on all firmware revisions at the moment?
you need to downgrade from 2.04
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on August 17, 2020, 03:26:38 pm
Thanks. That's good enough for me.  :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 17, 2020, 03:32:41 pm
Latest firmware, not tested
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: PushUp on August 17, 2020, 09:31:05 pm
You probably need a Chinese account - at least I could not login with my EU registration  :-// to get the download file... I always get a sad smilie!  :(

...nearly at the end of this site...

https://www.rigol.com/supports/software-firmware-download_2.html (https://www.rigol.com/supports/software-firmware-download_2.html)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on August 18, 2020, 08:28:18 am
I always get a sad smilie!  :(


Only a Chinese mobile number is accepted during registration.
An SMS with a verification code is sent to this number.
A colleague from China would have to help.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Vtech on August 18, 2020, 08:52:19 am
I always get a sad smilie!  :(


Only a Chinese mobile number is accepted during registration.
An SMS with a verification code is sent to this number.
A colleague from China would have to help.

Here you go: https://rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/EMD/DG/SOFTWARE/firmware/SardineII(ARM)Update_00.02.05.00.00.rar

No need to register - download link is present in javascript source code of the web page :-DD

EDIT: Release Notes: v00.02.05.00.00   2020-05-30
     - Solve the problem that the machine model changes to DG811 when upgrading to 00.02.04.00.00

I think there is no point of installing this.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on August 18, 2020, 10:05:15 am

No need to register - download link is present in javascript source code of the web page :-DD


 :-+
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 18, 2020, 01:42:39 pm
Release Notes: v00.02.05.00.00   2020-05-30
     - Solve the problem that the machine model changes to DG811 when upgrading to 00.02.04.00.00

 :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bulba99 on August 18, 2020, 01:55:36 pm
Release Notes: v00.02.05.00.00   2020-05-30
     - Solve the problem that the machine model changes to DG811 when upgrading to 00.02.04.00.00

 :-DD

This behavior probably applies to the DG2000 family and therefore there is only firmware 02.02 for this series on most websites.   :D

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 18, 2020, 02:27:57 pm
[Model Supported] DG811,DG821,DG831,DG812,DG822,DG832,DG952,DG972,DG992,DG2052,DG2072,DG2102
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on August 18, 2020, 02:57:56 pm
Does anyone know the difference between DG992 and DG2102?  Can the DG811 be hacked to DG2102?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 18, 2020, 03:06:16 pm
DG2000 has LAN interface built-in.

Nobody has tried it. Disregarding the LAN difference it could be possible or...  Nonetheless, don't see any value in that.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 20, 2020, 01:37:56 pm
As far as I know, there are obvious individual differences in the DG800 series. Some 1Vpp can only reach 0.3 or 0.8. When you buy, it is best to filter if you have the conditions. I use a special method to make my DG811 reach the real DG992 standard. When 1Vpp, it shows 0.97Vpp. I will publish my test next time.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: jscm2000 on August 23, 2020, 08:53:55 am
Using special methods and calibration, the output amplitude of DG811 in the high frequency range reaches the standard. DG811 truly becomes DG992!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 23, 2020, 12:38:27 pm
Using special methods and calibration, the output amplitude of DG811 in the high frequency range reaches the standard. DG811 truly becomes DG992!

 :-+ Now, it would be cool if you share your calib method.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: Gandalf_Sr on August 24, 2020, 12:19:20 am
Using special methods and calibration, the output amplitude of DG811 in the high frequency range reaches the standard. DG811 truly becomes DG992!

 :-+ Now, it would be cool if you share your calib method.
What TV84 is asking is...

Please tell us how you did the calibration. What is your "special method"?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: mnementh on August 25, 2020, 08:45:07 pm
Use a SDG6032X offscreen as "reference"...?  :-DD

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on August 29, 2020, 07:47:18 pm
DG800/900/2000 Performance Verification Guides.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on August 30, 2020, 02:33:51 am
DG800/900/2000 Performance Verification Guides.

Is the performance verification guide for the various generators helpful in producing a correct calibration for a DG811 "upgraded" to a DG992?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 18, 2020, 01:57:18 am
So I have successfully applied the upgrade from DG811 to DG992, and installed the latest firmware.

I have the tools necessary to calibrate this unit, and there is a calibration guide for the DG2000 series floating around on the internet that I have in my possession.  In principle, because the DG800/DG900/DG2000 are extremely similar (if not the same in terms of hardware), I should be able to calibrate this upgraded DG992.

I have tried to access the calibration menu using various combinations of :CAL and other things via SCPI to access the cal menu with no success.  I have also tried pressing all the buttons (and some combinations) during boot up also with no success.  I did however discover that if you pres the "Trig" button repeatedly from the moment you turn the unit on, it takes you to a chinese menu that lets you test the buttons and test the touch screen (see attached photo).

Has anyone been able to successfully use the CAL scpi commands for the DG800/900 described here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2462616/#msg2462616)?  If so, please share and I will happily calibrate this unit and provide the calibration parameters in this post, so that everyone can have a true DG992 with correct performance.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 18, 2020, 08:57:37 am
Are you sure the CAL guide is the proper one for the recent DG2000 series? There has been a "prehistoric" DG2000 (https://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Rigol-DG2021A.html) about a decade ago for which I'm aware of calibration instructions, but not for the recent one.

Moreover, it may be necessary to insert the "magic USB key" while calibrating the generator. I'll also be highly interested in the corresponding instructions...  ;)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 18, 2020, 02:27:51 pm
Are you sure the CAL guide is the proper one for the recent DG2000 series? There has been a "prehistoric" DG2000 (https://www.batronix.com/shop/waveform-generator/Rigol-DG2021A.html) about a decade ago for which I'm aware of calibration instructions, but not for the recent one.

Moreover, it may be necessary to insert the "magic USB key" while calibrating the generator. I'll also be highly interested in the corresponding instructions...  ;)

I have attached a photo of the successful "upgrade" to the DG992 model at the end of this message, with the latest firmware and serial number restoration procedure installed.  It would appear that you are correct, my Cal guide is for the ancient DG2000 series and not the most recent DG2000 series.  This would explain why the cal menu does not exist.

I have tested out various "CAL" SCPI commands mentioned in the Rigol SCPI command list, but I cannot determine whether or not they actually do anything of note (all generate no response).  I am wondering if there is a bootup button sequence that will enable calibration mode.  It's clear that there are at least two independent sequences at bootup (firmware upgrade by hitting utility, screen test by hitting trigger).  However, both have a visible effect by just pressing the key without the insertion of a USB.  This leads me to believe that there is a button sequence that will enable calibration at startup, but that likely needs more than just one button press (maybe two in combination).
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 18, 2020, 05:01:18 pm
I contacted Rigol to see if they would give me anything on how to calibrate this unit, and their response was that they do not have any way for customers to calibrate it, but that if I needed it to be calibrated that I should contact Transcat. So, it clearly can be calibrated (as if that were in doubt), but clearly it is not a procedure that is doable in any obvious way. Never the less I will soldier on in my quest.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 19, 2020, 08:50:31 pm
Alright so I poked around using the SCPI cal commands, and I have discovered the following.

Entering the Cal commands on SCPI with the "send&read" command using Rigol's Ultra Sigma software causes a timeout on the read part of the "send&read" command, and also causes the next SCPI command to throw a protocol error during the transfer of the next SCPI command.

However!  If you simply send the CAL command, and then send&receive the :SYST:ERR? command, it will tell you if the CAL command has returned an error.  I tried this with the :CAL:DATE command and it returns a "-220 parameter error" when :SYST:ERR? is invoked after the :CAL:DATE command is passed.  I then passed :CAL:DATE 09/09/2020 and then invoked :SYST:ERR? and it returned no error, so I think that means I successfully passed a cal date command but I have no idea how to verify that.

Its not much, but its something.  Maybe we can use this to figure out what the correct cal sequence is.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 19, 2020, 08:58:45 pm
I think Rigol usually uses the :SYST:ERR? after all commands to see if their commanding is going ok.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 19, 2020, 09:00:52 pm
I think Rigol usually uses the :SYST:ERR? after all commands to see if their commanding is going ok.

I think you are correct because I passed :CAL:DATE 09/09/2020 and then :SYST:ERR? and it returned no errors, so I believe that this cal command was successful (and probably set the cal date to september 9th 2020).  However, I have no idea how to verify this.  One thing that we may be able to check is the system log (which I have turned on via :SYST:LOG ON).  However, I'm not sure where I could find that.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 22, 2020, 02:26:42 pm
Alright so I spoke with Rigol's service department, and they told me pretty much what I expected: these instruments arent intended to be manually calibrated by customers, but the service tech didnt know what mechanism (if there is one) that is preventing this from happening.  They do the calibration in house, and there is no known procedure for circumventing this.  He also mentioned that they do not provide calibration certifications of any kind, so even if the unit was professionally calibrated by them there is no way to document that fact other than the performance verification guide.  He also said that if I wanted a professional calibration with documentation that I could reach out to Transcat, as Rigol contracts with them for calibration services and that they may have more information on the process.  I did contact Transcat and I am awaiting their response, but I am not optimistic given that their entire business is charging people to calibrate things and I'm asking them how they do the calibration for this unit.

So, that said, it looks like there is a software process that performs the calibration.  My best guess is that they use some sequence of SCPI commands to calibrate the unit.  However, unless we can figure out what that sequence of commands is (or come up with some other software solution), I dont think there is a way to calibrate this thing unless jscm2000 can provide us with his method.  Maybe its time to open the unit up and take a look to snoop around in the serial port next to the Spartan 6?

** EDIT **

What do ya'll think this ribbon connector attached to the main processor board is for?  Its not connected to the display, but it looks like a display connector (see attached image)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 22, 2020, 03:49:16 pm
It is the display connector. See the first photo on this page (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2419773/#msg2419773). It's a little bit hard to see since my photographing skills (and gear as well) can be improved on... It's the brown polyimide flex PCB that first sneaks up and then down in the right front-area cutout of the main metal chassis of the instrument.

I don't think that the FPGA's JTAG interface will be that helpful regarding the calibration issue. The ominous three-pin footprint labeled "J2" on the processor board looks like a much more promising candidate to me. Pins 1 and 2 are routed via a resistor each and then vanish in the direction of the CPU. Pin 3 is connected to ground. Could very well be an UART interface with 3.3V CMOS levels.

Edit:
Just had my DG800 apart and hooked up to J2 (first Scope, then UART interface): 1 - TxD, 2 - RxD, 3 - GND. 115200/n/8/1, no handshake. I recorded the bootlog without the front panel attached so I assume this causes the I²C errors:

Code: [Select]

U-Boot SPL 2015.07 (Jul 17 2018 - 16:15:46)
Jumping to U-Boot



U-Boot 2015.07 (Jul 17 2018 - 16:15:46 +0800)


       Watchdog enabled

I2C:   ready

DRAM:  256 MiB

NAND:  512 MiB

MMC:   OMAP SD/MMC: 0, OMAP SD/MMC: 1

Net:   MAC addr->F4:E1:1E:A1:E5:CC

get PHY for cpsw: addr 1

cpsw

Hit any key to stop autoboot:  1  0

Booting from nand ...


NAND read: device 0 offset 0x400000, size 0x9140

 37184 bytes read: OK


NAND read: device 0 offset 0x500000, size 0x409000

 4231168 bytes read: OK

crc_format = bootm 0x82000000 - 0x88000000.

## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at 82000000 ...

   Image Name:   Linux-3.14.26-rt25

   Created:      2018-07-19   9:09:58 UTC

   Image Type:   ARM Linux Kernel Image (uncompressed)

   Data Size:    4231104 Bytes = 4 MiB

   Load Address: 80008000

   Entry Point:  80008000

## Flattened Device Tree blob at 88000000

   Booting using the fdt blob at 0x88000000

   Loading Kernel Image ... OK

   Loading Device Tree to 8ef17000, end 8ef23132 ... OK


Starting kernel ...


[    0.527343] mtdoops: mtd device (mtddev=name/number) must be supplied
[    0.600253] cpu cpu0: cpu0 clock notifier not ready, retry
Starting logging: OK
mount user space...
Starting mdev...
modprobe: can't change directory to '3.14.26-rt25': No such file or directory
Initializing random number generator... [    4.243743] random: dd urandom read with 7 bits of entropy available
done.
Starting network: OK
Starting dropbear sshd: OK
Starting sshd: /var/empty must be owned by root and not group or world-writable.

OK
Starting app...
[    4.884799] sardine-adc TI-am335x-adc: initialized


Welcome to RIGOL DG800 system

rigol login: [    4.964771] fram 0-000a: initialized
[    5.022452] beep pwm:beeper,hwpwm:0,period:2000,polarity:0
[    5.032691] pwmdev-beeper beeper.7: initialized
[    5.085729] gpio-led led.8: initialized
[    5.783576] ts-ft6336U 2-0038: ts_ft_i2c_write i2c write error.
[    5.789953] ts-ft6336U 2-0038: ts_ft_i2c_write i2c write error.
[    5.796808] ts-ft6336U 2-0038: ts_ft_i2c_write i2c write error.
[    5.803105] read: i2c_transfer error!
[    5.807276] ts-ft6336U 2-0038: ts_ft_i2c_write i2c write error.
[    5.813561] read: i2c_transfer error!
[    5.817751] ts-ft6336U 2-0038: ts_ft_i2c_write i2c write error.
[    5.824049] read: i2c_transfer error!
[    5.829168] input: Rigol-FocalTech TS as /devices/ocp.3/4819c000.i2c/i2c-2/2-0038/input/input0
[    5.925523] input: rigol keyboard as /devices/ocp.3/48022000.serial/input/input1
[    5.954777] rigol-kbd 48022000.serial: initialized!
[    6.035074] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbtmc
[    6.114785] usbcore: registered new interface driver asix
[    6.164791] usbcore: registered new interface driver r8152
rmmod: can't unload module 'usbtmc_dev': No such file or directory
rmmod: can't unload module 'libcomposite': No such file or directory
[   22.312471] Rigol Device gadget: Usb device Gadget, version: 2016 July 26
[   22.319781] Rigol Device gadget: Rigol Device ready
[   22.420986] usbcore: deregistering interface driver usbtmc
[   22.534791] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbtmc
[   30.679919] random: nonblocking pool is initialized


I may install a wire to J2 and run it outside so I can use the instrument with an UART interface attached. Let's see where it takes us...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 22, 2020, 11:07:08 pm
I can't seem to pull up any serial output from J2 on the processor board. I have even checked the output on an oscilloscope and there is nothing. What firmware version are you running?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 22, 2020, 11:45:20 pm
Very strange. I'm running F/V 00.02.04 on my DG800 (which started life as a DG811 but believes it's a DG992...). Meanwhile, I installed the break-out cable and reassembled the instrument again. Using Putty, I'm able to "talk" to the instrument but haven't been able to log in yet (lacking the root password). I've been able to stop the boot process in U-Boot and messed around there a little.

IIRC, among other Rigol instruments, there have been some specimen that were missing the resistors that routed the UART lines to the corresponding port pins. You may want to pull the CPU module and check if R113 and R114 are installed. They should be in the ballpark of 330 ohms to 1k ohm.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 01:44:37 am
Thanks for the heads up, I ended up figuring it out.  What I thought was GND turned out to be TX, so flipping those two fixed it and now I can interact with it via serial over putty.

I have attached my full boot log in this message.  Gonna try some things, maybe we'll get lucky and get root shell access.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 04:17:45 am
So I logged the serial port output in the 4 different known boot configurations, and got some interesting results.

The first boot configuration is the standard one, no button presses at the start and just let it run through its normal boot process.

The second boot configuration involves repeatedly pressing the "Trig" key as I mentioned before, which puts the system into LCD/button test mode.

The third boot configuration involves pressing the "Help/Local" button repeatedly at startup, which puts the system into USB firmware upgrade mode.

The fourth boot configuration can only be accessed via serial port, and it involves pressing any key before the 1 second timer on the autoboot expires.  This immediately dumps you to a uboot login.

The differences here appear to occur when the device finishes autoboot.  The second boot configuration makes some cryptic references to "entering engineering model" and erasing redundant RAM and mentions a "New crc = 0x4cc6443" towards the end of the boot process. The third boot configuration will either upgrade the firmware from a USB (I didn't check the output for this part yet) or will fail to detect a valid USB and dump you to the uboot login prompt.  The fourth configuration dumps you straight to a uboot login.

All of this leads me to believe that "calibration mode" (if it exists) will likely be accessed by doing something before autoboot finishes, like the other modes.  More investigations tomorrow.  Maybe someone can try to upgrade the firmware while monitoring the serial port.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 23, 2020, 06:47:54 am
password: sardine_uboot
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 23, 2020, 07:06:08 am
Can't log in on the console with root / sardine_uboot . Maybe the password is to be used with a different login or not on the serial console? Entry into the uboot shell is possible without any access control.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 23, 2020, 07:21:10 am
Keep pressing Crtl-C when booting.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 11:23:32 am
Can't log in on the console with root / sardine_uboot . Maybe the password is to be used with a different login or not on the serial console? Entry into the uboot shell is possible without any access control.

How did you manage to get into uboot shell without a password? My unit requires a password for uboot (see above)

As for the console login, maybe we can binwalk the login name from the firmware. My bet is that it will use the same password as uboot login
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 23, 2020, 12:12:02 pm
Don't know..  :-//  My DG811 has a S/N from Q4 2018 so it's probably a rather early specimen. Maybe at that time, Rigol didn't lock Uboot shell with a password. I definitely can get into the shell by just pressing a key when Uboot prompts for it. No password required.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 12:39:45 pm
ok I can confirm that the password sardine_uboot works for logging into the uboot shell.  It does not work for logging into the main console with root login name after the boot process. We still don't know the user name for logging into the post-boot shell

For some reason TurboTom's system does not need a password to log into uboot.  I find this odd, given that I would expect the password requirement to be tied to the firmware version, but maybe its device specific.  Anyway, we are into the uboot shell.  Now for the main console!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 01:25:08 pm
I have attached a dump of various uboot info commands in this message.  This includes a comprehensive list of all commands that can be entered into the uboot shell.  There are some interesting nuggets in there, like RIGOL specific uboot commands and some info on various start up routines.  The only thing I cannot figure out is how to work the "ls" command.  It says it needs a directory to work on, but when I enter "ls /" which is supposedly the default, it spits out the same "this only works on a directory" message.  Does anyone know what the file system looks like so that I can begin poking around and seeing whats available?

Check out the dump and let me know what you think.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 23, 2020, 01:32:52 pm
Like this?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 01:34:43 pm
Additional dump with fdt command list
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 01:38:43 pm
Like this?

Is that the uboot file system or the linux file system?  I tried using ls -laR / in uboot shell but it keeps giving me a "** Bad device specification **" or ** No device specified **
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 23, 2020, 02:07:07 pm
Is that the uboot file system or the linux file system?

I think such thing doesn't exist. If it's a filesystem, it's beyond uboot.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 02:14:42 pm
Is that the uboot file system or the linux file system?

I think such thing doesn't exist. If it's a filesystem, it's beyond uboot.

I see. I wonder how the ls command is supposed to work in uboot shell. I have tried it and all I get is a message saying I haven't specified a device
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 02:36:46 pm
Like this?

Can you dump the contents of the two files that I pulled from your ls dump or attach them here (see attached image)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 06:09:54 pm
As an aside, it would appear from TV84's dump of the file system that the desired login name is "root".  No word on the root password yet, though I have been trying many fun combinations involving sardines.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 23, 2020, 08:29:31 pm
Attached dumps from the offical rigol firmware, mostly just the file structure.  There are three main firmware archives in UBIFS format: _app, _Sardine, and _rootfs, each with some interesting things in them.  I'm able to mount the rootfs archive and look around in it, but I cant get either _app or _Sardine open to look around in it yet.  I did however extract an interesting shell script using ubidump, which I have also attached.  Gives an idea of how the calibration might work, I think.

Still cant find the calibration data in the firmware files though.  Maybe its saved into the /root directory of rootfs after the unit is first calibrated?

*** EDIT ***

FInally opened the UBIFS archives and extracted the data.  No cal info, but an xml file in the Sardine UBIFS archive contained some interesting references to calibration procedure.  See attached xml
file called "msg_en"

Also I found the /etc/shadow file that contains the hashed root password. The encryption is probably unbreakable though
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 24, 2020, 06:26:12 am
Can someone post the /etc/shadow line for root. My GPU is sitting here doing nothing at the moment and needs some hashcat exercise  8)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 24, 2020, 09:04:46 am
Can someone post the /etc/shadow line for root. My GPU is sitting here doing nothing at the moment and needs some hashcat exercise  8)

I'll bet it is.  ;D  But, the problem is that the line doesn't have nothing of interest.  :-//

/etc/passwd
Code: [Select]
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh
daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/bin/false
bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:/bin/false
sys:x:3:3:sys:/dev:/bin/false
sync:x:4:100:sync:/bin:/bin/sync
mail:x:8:8:mail:/var/spool/mail:/bin/false
www-data:x:33:33:www-data:/var/www:/bin/false
operator:x:37:37:Operator:/var:/bin/false
nobody:x:99:99:nobody:/home:/bin/false
sshd:x:1000:1000:SSH drop priv user:/:/bin/false

/etc/shadow
Code: [Select]
root::10933:0:99999:7:::
daemon:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
bin:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
sys:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
sync:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
mail:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
www-data:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
operator:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
nobody:*:10933:0:99999:7:::
sshd:*:::::::

/etc/inittab
Quote
# /etc/inittab
#
# Copyright (C) 2001 Erik Andersen <andersen@codepoet.org>
#
# Note: BusyBox init doesn't support runlevels.  The runlevels field is
# completely ignored by BusyBox init. If you want runlevels, use
# sysvinit.
#
# Format for each entry: <id>:<runlevels>:<action>:<process>
#
# id        == tty to run on, or empty for /dev/console
# runlevels == ignored
# action    == one of sysinit, respawn, askfirst, wait, and once
# process   == program to run

# Startup the system
::sysinit:/bin/mount -t proc proc /proc
::sysinit:/bin/mount -o remount,rw /
::sysinit:/bin/mkdir -p /dev/pts
::sysinit:/bin/mkdir -p /dev/shm
::sysinit:/bin/mount -a
::sysinit:/bin/hostname -F /etc/hostname
# now run any rc scripts
::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS

# Put a getty on the serial port
#ttyO0::respawn:/sbin/getty -L  ttyO0 115200 vt100 # GENERIC_SERIAL
ttyO0::respawn:/sbin/getty -n -l /sbin/autologin 115200 ttyO0

# Stuff to do for the 3-finger salute
#::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/reboot

# Stuff to do before rebooting
::shutdown:/etc/init.d/rcK
::shutdown:/sbin/swapoff -a
::shutdown:/bin/umount -a -r

I'm afraid CalibrationData.dat might have ID data, so cannot share because it's not mine.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 24, 2020, 09:22:50 am
Ok so root should have no password if the second field is ::
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 24, 2020, 01:25:12 pm
I can confirm that the root password is not an empty field.  It definitely requires a password.

/etc/shadow
Code: [Select]
root:<redacted>:10933:0:99999:7:::

daemon:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

bin:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

sys:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

sync:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

mail:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

www-data:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

operator:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

nobody:*:10933:0:99999:7:::

sshd:*:::::::

There is definitely a password hashed in there.

/etc/passwd:
Code: [Select]
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/sh
daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/bin/false
bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:/bin/false
sys:x:3:3:sys:/dev:/bin/false
sync:x:4:100:sync:/bin:/bin/sync
mail:x:8:8:mail:/var/spool/mail:/bin/false
www-data:x:33:33:www-data:/var/www:/bin/false
operator:x:37:37:Operator:/var:/bin/false
nobody:x:99:99:nobody:/home:/bin/false
sshd:x:1000:1000:SSH drop priv user:/:/bin/false

/etc/inittab
Code: [Select]
# /etc/inittab
#
# Copyright (C) 2001 Erik Andersen <andersen@codepoet.org>
#
# Note: BusyBox init doesn't support runlevels.  The runlevels field is
# completely ignored by BusyBox init. If you want runlevels, use
# sysvinit.
#
# Format for each entry: <id>:<runlevels>:<action>:<process>
#
# id        == tty to run on, or empty for /dev/console
# runlevels == ignored
# action    == one of sysinit, respawn, askfirst, wait, and once
# process   == program to run

# Startup the system
::sysinit:/bin/mount -t proc proc /proc
::sysinit:/bin/mount -o remount,rw /
::sysinit:/bin/mkdir -p /dev/pts
::sysinit:/bin/mkdir -p /dev/shm
::sysinit:/bin/mount -a
::sysinit:/bin/hostname -F /etc/hostname
# now run any rc scripts
::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS

# Put a getty on the serial port
ttyO0::respawn:/sbin/getty -L  ttyO0 115200 vt100 # GENERIC_SERIAL
#ttyO0::respawn:/sbin/getty -n -l /sbin/autologin 115200 ttyO0

# Stuff to do for the 3-finger salute
#::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/reboot

# Stuff to do before rebooting
::shutdown:/etc/init.d/rcK
::shutdown:/sbin/swapoff -a
::shutdown:/bin/umount -a -r
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 24, 2020, 02:38:12 pm
SHA512...   :-\  Only with a bit of luck.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 24, 2020, 03:31:26 pm
SHA512...   :-\  Only with a bit of luck.

While we are working on this, do you have the content of the files I mentioned in this message?

Like this?

Can you dump the contents of the two files that I pulled from your ls dump or attach them here (see attached image)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 24, 2020, 03:32:12 pm
Running hashcat on my standard password corpus now. 51gb of passwords :)

Brute forcing salted sha-512 is unproductive unless you're the NSA so it's probably better to see if you can patch the firmware with a known password before it gets to the device. Not sure if their firmware is signed or not.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 24, 2020, 03:59:10 pm
While we are working on this, do you have the content of the files I mentioned in this message?

My answer is in previous msg.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 24, 2020, 05:12:43 pm
While we are working on this, do you have the content of the files I mentioned in this message?

My answer is in previous msg.
Thanks! It's easy to miss those tiny little attachments at the end of a long post  :-//

Running hashcat on my standard password corpus now. 51gb of passwords :)

Brute forcing salted sha-512 is unproductive unless you're the NSA so it's probably better to see if you can patch the firmware with a known password before it gets to the device. Not sure if their firmware is signed or not.

Another alternative is to find a way to crash the boot process (if such a method exists) and hope it drops us into root shell
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 24, 2020, 07:15:18 pm
attached CalibrationInfo.dat in "human readable" format

Includes something with a date (October 2018) but thats probably just the calibration date (maybe could check to see if change when using SCPI :CAL:DATE command).  Not much else seems to be very useful here.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: bd139 on September 24, 2020, 07:24:48 pm
No luck with hashcat. 3.3 billion passwords tried  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 24, 2020, 07:26:24 pm
No luck here either

Looks like we will need a custom firmware or figure another way into root shell.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 26, 2020, 07:26:16 pm
Does anyone know what part number the FPGA on the main board is? *** EDIT *** Turns out I didnt need the exact part number, its a spartan 6 and my software doesn't care what kind.

I did a strings search for anything calibration related in the SardineMain executable program that seems to control basically every function of this unit when it is on, and found a lot of interesting information (dump attached in this message).  The first thing to say is that "/root/CalibrationData.dat" is referenced in the SardineMain program but does not exist in the firmware from Rigol's website.  This leads me to believe that as we suspected it is generated after the unit is turned on and the calibration routine has been run.  There is also a reference to a calibration routine (ServCalibration.cpp) in the dump that I have attached.  Does anyone think its possible to unpack this executable to get at these programs? (I have also attached this executable to the end of this message)

I'm going to try to read the contents of the winbond flash and hopefully extract the firmware so that I can get that CalibrationData.dat file from my unit and crack it open.

Also just as a fun note, I soldered in some leads and found that the JTAG connection is not disabled, so it is possible to reprogram the FPGA with the .bit files in the firmware (or any other bit file generated for this FPGA)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 26, 2020, 11:14:02 pm
Can anyone identify the FPGA on the main board?

I did a strings search for anything calibration related in the SardineMain executable program that seems to control basically every function of this unit when it is on, and found a lot of interesting information (dump attached in this message).  The first thing to say is that "/root/CalibrationData.dat" is referenced in the SardineMain program but does not exist in the firmware from Rigol's website.  This leads me to believe that as we suspected it is generated after the unit is turned on and the calibration routine has been run.  There is also a reference to a calibration routine (ServCalibration.cpp) in the dump that I have attached.  Does anyone think its possible to unpack this executable to get at these programs? (I have also attached this executable to the end of this message)

I'm going to try to read the contents of the winbond flash and hopefully extract the firmware so that I can get that CalibrationData.dat file from my unit and crack it open.

Also just as a fun note, I soldered in some leads and found that the JTAG connection is not disabled, so it is possible to reprogram the FPGA with the .bit files in the firmware (or any other bit file generated for this FPGA)


The FPGA is a Xilinx SPARTAN6 XC6SLX9-FTG256BIV. The package marking is quite difficult to decipher since the laser marking isn't very deep and moreover, Rigol arranged the assembly so there's silicone pad touching the top of the FPGA, spilling silicone oil all over it, affecting readability even more...

Anyway, application of some brake cleaner and dry tissue and placing the illumintaion at a shallow angle, revealed the imprint. So it's the second smallest FPGA in XILINX's Spartan6 range.

Yet, I don't think that's the limiting factor that precludes the contemporary use of CH2 and the frequency counter. It rather seems that the mysterious U603, of which I guess that it's a DAC (possibly 2 channel audio type) to generate the offset voltages, is used to output the trigger threshold for the freqency counter input comparator and thus is no longer available for the offset of channel 2. I may be completely wrong, though...  :-//

(rant on...) BTW, I consider it bad style to edit a post to completly change its meaning or to remove substantial parts of it. This puts consecutive posts out of order and may render considerable time and effort spent by other forum members futile. It's much better practice to just cross out the sections that one wants to remove from his / her post or to publish another post that explains the new motivation. In this case, I specifically added the citation of the original post that I was referring to... (rant off)

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 26, 2020, 11:37:37 pm
On a slightly different topic, I found that if the generator is outputting an arbitrary waveform it cannot seem to lock to an external 10 MHz clock. I wonder of someone can confirm it.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on September 26, 2020, 11:39:00 pm
(rant on...) BTW, I consider it bad style to edit a post to completly change its meaning or to remove substantial parts of it. This puts consecutive posts out of order and may render considerable time and effort spent by other forum members futile. It's much better practice to just cross out the sections that one wants to remove from his / her post or to publish another post that explains the new motivation. In this case, I specifically added the citation of the original post that I was referring to... (rant off)

Cheers,
Thomas

My bad, sorry!  Thanks for getting me that information.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 27, 2020, 07:33:20 pm
On a slightly different topic, I found that if the generator is outputting an arbitrary waveform it cannot seem to lock to an external 10 MHz clock. I wonder of someone can confirm it.

I checked the behaviour of my "improved" DG811, F/W 00.02.04, with the built-in arbitraries and found that it very well locks onto an external reference frequency. You've got to tell the instrument in the "Utility" menu to use the external clock source, though, since by default, it uses the internal source and utilizes the "EXT Ref" port to output this frequency.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 27, 2020, 11:41:08 pm
I was using a custom uploaded waveform. I will check more, it was locking fine to external clock when outputting sine wave (after set to external) but would report a error when outputting a custom waveform.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on September 28, 2020, 06:36:33 am
That really surprises me. The "AWG engine" shouldn't even notice the difference whether the reference is supplied from its internal oscillator or via the external input. It's just a switch, controlled by the CPU module and (probably) a (divided) signal fed back via the FPGA to a counter so the CPU can verify that the external reference is in the right ballpark or present at all.

Maybe you used a dodgy BNC cable or adapter to supply the reference?

I'll set up a custom arbitrary and will experiment some further as well. Should this turn out to be truely a problem, this would be a vast negligence of Rigol...


Edit: Did some more testing and indeed, I found a very weird behavior when using custom arbitraries! The instrument drops out of external reference mode with an error if "interpolation" as filter mode is selected. When using "step" or "smooth" filter response, EXT Ref stays enabled and the instrument uses it. Must be a peculiar firmware bug! Rigol, you've got a job to do...  >:D
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: maxwell3e10 on September 28, 2020, 06:48:45 pm
Thanks for confirming it!  I was actually trying to do something with the FG (hard to believe :)) so didn't investigate further. But yes, there doesn't seem to be any fundamental reason for this problem.
Edit: Unless Rigol uses the clock reference PLL to generate some kind of variable clock for waveform output?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: joeyjoejoe on September 29, 2020, 08:30:26 pm
I am following steps a few pages back.

I have a DG821 with FW "00.01.08.00.01". Can anyone confirm if this IS or IS NOT considered "FW 1.08" and if I need to downgrade with Vtech's file?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on September 29, 2020, 08:49:05 pm
I am following steps a few pages back.

I have a DG821 with FW "00.01.08.00.01". Can anyone confirm if this IS or IS NOT considered "FW 1.08" and if I need to downgrade with Vtech's file?

IS.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: joeyjoejoe on September 29, 2020, 08:51:39 pm
Thanks :) The wording suggested it was not.

Skipping that step, just got my magic USB stick, finishing Ultra Sigma download now... wish there was an easier way with linux, I tried PyVISA but it didn't seem to respond to commands.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: joeyjoejoe on September 29, 2020, 09:00:57 pm
Update - thanks Luckygecko, tv84 and vtech. DG821->DG992 complete.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on October 02, 2020, 12:07:05 am
After @nctnico's review of the Tektronix AFG31022 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-afg31022-review/msg3256756/#msg3256756), I just had to have a more detailed observation of my "DG811+++'s" inter-channel phase accuracy behavior. So I hooked up both channels of the AWG to my 53310A modulation domain analyzer, configured as a high-speed timer. Channel 1 would start the measurement, Channel 2 would stop it.

Since I wanted to analyze a possible "phase drift" at whole-number multiples of frequencies between the two channels, I always configured channel 2 to output a whole number multiple frequency of channel 1. I experimented in "couple mode" with both frequency and phase coupling enabled or disabled with little observable effect.

The result was disappointing: depending on the frequency pairs, I can find a phase drift, regardless of the coupling parameter, at factors sometimes as low as ten between the frequencies. I didn't dial in ultra-odd combinations. 60kHz and 1.2MHz for example walks away at approx. 100ps per minute. Other combinations are drifting even faster.

Seems like Rigol didn't get the phase accumulator math exactly right. I'ld expect that the "phase coupling" has some real effect, even if the frequencies are not identical but whole number multiples. Otherwise, the "frequency copupling" should work accurately to multiples of at least 1000.

IMO, the DG811 "hacker's delight"  >:D is still a good AWG for its price, but never ever pay the price for a higher model in the range, especially not the DG900 or DG2000 series. For that kind of money, the performance will be disappointing, and there are better choices available.

I'm quite curious if we'll eventually see a firmware update that takes care of this... IMO it would be sufficient to reset (re-align) the phase automatically each time when the multiple of periods has passed. The additional phase noise in the faster channel should be neglible. It may not be necessary to modify the math routines that probably, due to rounding inaccuracies, cause the phase accumulators to drift.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: sequoia on October 04, 2020, 03:01:26 am
Anyone succeeded "downgrading" back to v1.08 firmware on unit that came with v2.05 firmware from factory?

I tested modified 1.08 firmware update and unit detects it and prompts for upgrade. However, if you choose "ok" it just spins in the waiting screen for a while and then the animation freezes and after a while whole upgrade window goes away (unit does not reboot). Then it will prompt again for upgrade....


UPDATE:

I was able to use the official 2.04 firmware to "downgrade" from 2.05 -> 2.04 firmware.  However, no change in behaviour if attempt to downgrade to 1.08 firmware....
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TK on October 04, 2020, 04:41:39 am
Anyone succeeded "downgrading" back to v1.08 firmware on unit that came with v2.05 firmware from factory?

I tested modified 1.08 firmware update and unit detects it and prompts for upgrade. However, if you choose "ok" it just spins in the waiting screen for a while and then the animation freezes and after a while whole upgrade window goes away (unit does not reboot). Then it will prompt again for upgrade....


UPDATE:

I was able to use the official 2.04 firmware to "downgrade" from 2.05 -> 2.04 firmware.  However, no change in behaviour if attempt to downgrade to 1.08 firmware....
When you downgrade from 2.05 to 2.04, doesn't the model change to DG992?  What do you mean by "no change in behavior"?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: sequoia on October 04, 2020, 04:59:06 am
Anyone succeeded "downgrading" back to v1.08 firmware on unit that came with v2.05 firmware from factory?

I tested modified 1.08 firmware update and unit detects it and prompts for upgrade. However, if you choose "ok" it just spins in the waiting screen for a while and then the animation freezes and after a while whole upgrade window goes away (unit does not reboot). Then it will prompt again for upgrade....


UPDATE:

I was able to use the official 2.04 firmware to "downgrade" from 2.05 -> 2.04 firmware.  However, no change in behaviour if attempt to downgrade to 1.08 firmware....
When you downgrade from 2.05 to 2.04, doesn't the model change to DG992?  What do you mean by "no change in behavior"?

No, model stayed as DG811.  No change in behaviour when trying to upgrade (downgrade) to 1.08 firmware.  "Waiting" screen shows up after clicking "OK" and the animation spins for a while before freezing...


I was finally able to run the downgrade to 1.08 firmware. Starting upgrade when unit was already running (on 2.04/2.05 firmware) didn't work. But booting up unit and pressing "Help" key rapidly during power on, seemed to trigger some kind of "firmware recovery" mode that started the firmware upgrade automatically... This way downgrade to 1.08 firmware was successful.

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 08, 2020, 09:52:28 pm
I verified today that the JTAG interface only works with the Xilinx Spartan6 FPGA, but I did notice something interesting on the under side of the "core board"

Does anyone have any idea what this set of 7 pads might be for (see red box in attached image)?  Maybe a JTAG interface for the TI AM335x CPU?  If so, maybe we can hook into that and download the contents of the NAND flash to get the CalibrationData.dat file specific to one of our units.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rea on October 11, 2020, 12:57:28 am
No luck here either

Looks like we will need a custom firmware or figure another way into root shell.

Another way: http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/ (http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 11, 2020, 02:37:50 am
No luck here either

Looks like we will need a custom firmware or figure another way into root shell.

Another way: http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/ (http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/)

Ok this is intriguing!  The readme claims that this technique wont survive an update, but in our case that's not really a problem because all we are trying to do is get the calibration info/procedure.  My bet is that if we can update the calibration info with the correct values using this access procedure you have linked, I suspect that these calibration values will likely persist between updates back to stock firmware with the DG992 upgrade in tact.  At the very least I can try to get the contents of the firmware.

Now I just gotta figure out how to SSH into this thing via USB... do I need to get a USB->ethernet adapter for that?  If so, any recommendations?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rea on October 11, 2020, 08:03:09 am
G'day.

Quote
Do I need to get a USB->ethernet adapter for that?

Yes.

Quote
If so, any recommendations?

I am good with Realtek 8152-based adapter (it came with ASUS notebook).  The list of USB device identifiers can be consulted here: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/net/usb/r8152.c.html#rtl8152_table

ASIX-based adapters are also supported, here's the list: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/net/usb/asix_devices.c.html#ax8817x_info

Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 11, 2020, 08:58:47 am
I think I posted this in the past...

This should allow a dump of some internal files, including the calib ones.

And dump the NAND...

No need to mess with root shell for these.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rea on October 11, 2020, 08:11:36 pm
No need to mess with root shell for these.

There are many ways to skin a (net)cat...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 11, 2020, 08:36:13 pm
I think I posted this in the past...

This should allow a dump of some internal files, including the calib ones.

And dump the NAND...

No need to mess with root shell for these.

Ok, how does the dump procedure work?  I assume since it doesn't require root shell access that there is some command that allows one to extract the desired files?  How does one input that command and collect the desired files?

G'day.

Quote
Do I need to get a USB->ethernet adapter for that?

Yes.

I am good with Realtek 8152-based adapter (it came with ASUS notebook).  The list of USB device identifiers can be consulted here: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/net/usb/r8152.c.html#rtl8152_table

ASIX-based adapters are also supported, here's the list: https://code.woboq.org/linux/linux/drivers/net/usb/asix_devices.c.html#ax8817x_info



I assume the adapter will need to plug into the USB host port with the type B connector, so I will find an adapter for my USB ethernet adapter.  :-DD
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 11, 2020, 08:43:02 pm
How does one input that command and collect the desired files?

Execute those update .GELs.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 11, 2020, 09:13:31 pm
Alright, tried the reboot with help/local pressed method when the USB was plugged in and it gave me a Error: Bad script message and wouldn't boot.  Took out the USB, booted it up, put the USB back in, and executed the update.  Its currently stuck on the waiting screen, I assume that its downloading somethign to the USB but I'm not sure.  I'll give it a few more minutes before I kill it and reboot it.

*** EDIT ***

Killed it, got the cal data now (all in chinese, so this will be interesting).  Thanks for the script!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rea on October 11, 2020, 09:33:19 pm
I assume the adapter will need to plug into the USB host port with the type B connector

No: it can go into Type-A slot, the same place as for the USB drive.  So if you have the adapter, just plug it in and see if the scope will turn on USB icon, show LXI icon and show dialogs about network configuration being initialized.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 11, 2020, 10:50:54 pm
I have attached my calibration data, I'm working on making some sense of it but I don't read chinese  very well.  I ran a "file" command on it and it tells me that its a dBase III DBT file.  So I downloaded dbview and tried to run it on the file, and it tells me that version 192 is not supported.  So it appears that its some sort of .dbf file, but I dont know how to work with it yet.  Maybe one of you will have better luck than me.

One interesting thing to note: When I entered the SCPI command :CAL:DATE 09/09/2020 as mentioned earlier in this thread, it actually updated the calibration date in the CalibrationInfo.dat file.  So, we know that at least some of those CAL SCPI commands actually do something.

Now if only I could actually decode what exactly was going on in these CalibrationInfo.dat/CalibrationData.dat files...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 16, 2020, 07:35:24 pm
I've tried identifying the contents of these files via few methods, some of which is somewhat illuminating, others contradictory.  I have attached the outputs in this reply.  If this looks familiar, let me know.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on October 17, 2020, 01:34:08 pm
Anybody succeeded with @rea's approach (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3271872/#msg3271872) to get access to the "running" dg800?

I ran the .gel script which apparently worked and then tried to log into the instrument with a USB-network adapter via a putty client. Trying on port 5555 stalls the client, port 22 seems to work half-way, which means I get a login prompt. But the supplied password won't get me in. Could it be possible that I didn't configure the encryption settings properly? If I try to access port 22 with telnet, I only get some unreadable garbage as return which indicates to me that the encryption via putty is probably working. But I'm just not too experienced with this networking stuff. Maybe I should add: Communicating with the DG800 over this connection with SCPI commands (ID, screenshots and the like) works beautifully so the link itself seems to be operational.

It's not that I really need this but peeking around a little in the instument may be fun  ;)

Cheers,
Thomas
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: rea on October 17, 2020, 04:05:43 pm
Thomas, good day.

I ran the .gel script which apparently worked and then tried to log into the instrument with a USB-network adapter via a putty client. Trying on port 5555 stalls the client,
... which makes sense: port 5555 isn't running SSH.

Quote
port 22 seems to work half-way, which means I get a login prompt. But the supplied password won't get me in. Could it be possible that I didn't configure the encryption settings properly?

In order for SSH access to work, you should get the provided SSH key, http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/id_rsa-rigol-dg, (http://codelabs.ru/firmware/rigol/dg8xx-9xx/2.05.00-enable-ssh/id_rsa-rigol-dg,) and make your SSH client to use it for logging in (as user "root").  For Putty the import of the SSH key can be done like described here: https://devops.ionos.com/tutorials/use-ssh-keys-with-putty-on-windows/#use-existing-public-and-private-keys (https://devops.ionos.com/tutorials/use-ssh-keys-with-putty-on-windows/#use-existing-public-and-private-keys)

Quote
If I try to access port 22 with telnet, I only get some unreadable garbage as return which indicates to me that the encryption via putty is probably working.

This "garbage" isn't a complete junk.  The first line should read "SSH-2.0-dropbear_2016.74" and the second (that is much longer) should have something like "curve25519-sha256@libssh.org,ecdh-sha2-nistp521,ecdh-sha2-nistp384,ecdh-sha2-nistp256,diffie-hellman-group14-sha1,diffie-hellman-group1-sha1,kexguess2@matt.ucc.asn.au#ecdsa-sha2-nistp521,ssh-rsa,ssh-dssgaes128-ctr,aes256-ctr,aes128-cbc,aes256-cbc,twofish256-cbc,twofish-cbc,twofish128-cbc,3des-ctr,3des-cbcgaes128-ctr,aes256-ctr,aes128-cbc,aes256-cbc,twofish256-cbc,twofish-cbc,twofish128-cbc,3des-ctr,3des-cbc;hmac-sha1-96,hmac-sha1,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-md5;hmac-sha1-96,hmac-sha1,hmac-sha2-256,hmac-sha2-512,hmac-md5none" in it.  In fact, that's the beginning of a standard SSH server protocol exchange.

HTH.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 17, 2020, 05:21:46 pm
Anybody succeeded with @rea's approach (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3271872/#msg3271872) to get access to the "running" dg800?

I ran the .gel script which apparently worked and then tried to log into the instrument with a USB-network adapter via a putty client. Trying on port 5555 stalls the client, port 22 seems to work half-way, which means I get a login prompt. But the supplied password won't get me in. Could it be possible that I didn't configure the encryption settings properly? If I try to access port 22 with telnet, I only get some unreadable garbage as return which indicates to me that the encryption via putty is probably working. But I'm just not too experienced with this networking stuff. Maybe I should add: Communicating with the DG800 over this connection with SCPI commands (ID, screenshots and the like) works beautifully so the link itself seems to be operational.

It's not that I really need this but peeking around a little in the instument may be fun  ;)

I havent tried yet, it's next on my list of things to do.

On a different note, after trying and failing to make heads or tails of the CalibrationData.dat file I decided to hex dump the file and see if that helps anyone get an idea of what is going on with it.  Hex dump is attached.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 17, 2020, 05:51:05 pm
On a different note, after trying and failing to make heads or tails of the CalibrationData.dat file I decided to hex dump the file and see if that helps anyone get an idea of what is going on with it.  Hex dump is attached.

I think those files are unique to this instrument. They don't seem to follow any format.

The only way, besides reversing the whole thing, is trial and error. Unless someone sees any similarities with other instruments.

I think it would be important to study the impact of SCPI commands on their contents.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 17, 2020, 05:58:49 pm
On a different note, after trying and failing to make heads or tails of the CalibrationData.dat file I decided to hex dump the file and see if that helps anyone get an idea of what is going on with it.  Hex dump is attached.

I think those files are unique to this instrument. They don't seem to follow any format.

The only way, besides reversing the whole thing, is trial and error. Unless someone sees any similarities with other instruments.

I think it would be important to study the impact of SCPI commands on their contents.

I am beginning to think the same thing.  I was gonna start trying some of the SCPI commands I dug up in my earlier dumps and your script that spits out the cal files to see if I can induce any change.

Just so I feel better about this process, do you think it's possible to put together a script that would allow me to overwrite any changes to the CAL file with the original cal file I posted in this thread?  I would like to be able to restore any changes I might make in case I screw something up.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 17, 2020, 06:04:51 pm
I'll have a look.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 17, 2020, 06:19:09 pm
I'll have a look.

If not, I can probably just use the SSH script to telnet into the unit and directly replace the files via ssh.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: battlecoder on October 17, 2020, 09:48:00 pm
I've been meaning to purchase a 822 for a while now, and this thread is not helping me abandon the idea.  ;D
I like that they can be hacked to unlock more features, but I guess I wouldn't make it behave as a model that exceeds its calibration point if I don't have how to make it work correctly in the full range (So I guess I'd transform it into a DG952 at most).

Anyway, I'll be following this thread now because I have a problem and can't stop buying devices I don't really need.  :-DD

(Also, thanks to all the amazing people in this threat who has contributed to unearth the secrets of these devices, and unlock their capabilities)
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 17, 2020, 10:22:35 pm
I've been meaning to purchase a 822 for a while now, and this thread is not helping me abandon the idea.  ;D
I like that they can be hacked to unlock more features, but I guess I wouldn't make it behave as a model that exceeds its calibration point if I don't have how to make it work correctly in the full range (So I guess I'd transform it into a DG952 at most).

Anyway, I'll be following this thread now because I have a problem and can't stop buying devices I don't really need.  :-DD

(Also, thanks to all the amazing people in this threat who has contributed to unearth the secrets of these devices, and unlock their capabilities)

Don't spend the extra on the 822, just get the 811.  The second channel is enabled through software described above.  No reason to pay extra when the 811 does what you need!
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: battlecoder on October 17, 2020, 10:37:43 pm
Don't spend the extra on the 822, just get the 811.  The second channel is enabled through software described above.  No reason to pay extra when the 811 does what you need!
I would normally agree on that, but if -for whatever reason- I'm unable to perform the "upgrade" I would not like to be stuck with only 1 channel. I will ask the store if they have stock of the 811 if (when) I do the purchase. If the price difference is considerable then I'll definitely go for the 811, but considering how wildly different pricing is here, that may not be the case.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on October 17, 2020, 11:36:43 pm
@rea:

Thanks a lot for pointing me to the right direction. The instruction how to convert the supplied private key file to the format PuTTY is expecting, was what I had been missing... Now the login works a treat and I already transfered the complete file system to my PC using "psftp".

I went through most of the files and as it seems, there is no interactive calibration function available in these AWGs (DG800/900/2000). It appears that Rigol only made provisions for calibrating these units via SCPI commands. If we would be able to retrieve a set of cal files from a genuine DG992, we might be able to assemble a hybrid cal file by patching the resident cal files with the additional information (always assuming that the hardware won't differ too much -- tolerance-wise that is). I may be completely in error with this assumption, though. But it may anyway help us to understand how the cal files are structured. For comparison, I attached the cal files of my AWG that started life as a DG811.

@battlecoder: Don't worry and just get the DG811. The hardware of the latter and the DG900 is identical except for the casing colour (...). This can be officially verified since considerable time ago, a chinese language service manual for these instruments surfaced, stating exactly the same P/N for the main PCB for these two instruments. Moreover, AFAIK there even is/was an update option by Rigol to add the second channel to single-channel versions of the AWG.

Edit: both attached cal files had the extension *.dat, had to rename them to meet the forum attachment requirements
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 18, 2020, 12:57:26 am
@rea:

Thanks a lot for pointing me to the right direction. The instruction how to convert the supplied private key file to the format PuTTY is expecting, was what I had been missing... Now the login works a treat and I already transfered the complete file system to my PC using "psftp".

I went through most of the files and as it seems, there is no interactive calibration function available in these AWGs (DG800/900/2000). It appears that Rigol only made provisions for calibrating these units via SCPI commands. If we would be able to retrieve a set of cal files from a genuine DG992, we might be able to assemble a hybrid cal file by patching the resident cal files with the additional information (always assuming that the hardware won't differ too much). I may be completely in error with this assumption, though. But it may anyway help us to understand how the cal files are structured. For comparison, I attached the cal files of my AWG that started life as a DG811.

@battlecoder: Don't worry and just get the DG811. The hardware of the latter and the DG900 is identical except for the casing colour (...). This can be officially verified since considerable time ago, a chinese language service manual for these instruments surfaced, stating exactly the same P/N for the main PCB for these two instruments. Moreover, AFAIK there even is/was an update option by Rigol to add the second channel to single-channel versions of the AWG.

Edit: both attached cal files had the extension *.dat, had to rename them to meet the forum attachment requirements

Apparently the cal directory (under /root/cal) is mounted at some point.  See the bash script file I attached and look for the /root/cal section

Also, can you do a search of the file system for a file called ServCalibration.cpp?
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 18, 2020, 09:03:05 am
If we would be able to retrieve a set of cal files from a genuine DG992, we might be able to assemble a hybrid cal file

That's an excellent, and probably the best, idea.

Also, can you do a search of the file system for a file called ServCalibration.cpp?

That is the source file in development (C++). You only get its compiled output.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: tv84 on October 18, 2020, 10:22:38 am
Focusing on CalibrationData.dat, and trying to reduce our analysis area:

The file has 2 exact halves (maybe for backup). So we can split it in 2 and disregard the 2nd half (#2).

Just looking at 1st half (#1):

If we take into account that the first 2-bytes are CRC/checksum, we can further split the file in 2, assuming that there are 2 channels calib, at the 0x5824 mark.

If we compare these remaining 2 files (1a and 1b), we see lots of similarities. Maybe we can even swap both blocks and that would swap the calib of both channels...

Attached is a visual mapping (raw) of half #1 and the splittings that I talked about.

If anyone wants to try assembling something I may have a look at the CRC/checksum to see how that's done.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: TurboTom on October 18, 2020, 03:54:09 pm
The calibration files appear to consist of 32 bit signed integers. I removed a few bytes at the start to align the four-byte boundaries properly and converted them to decimal, keeping 16-byte groups so it's comparable with the typical hex editor arrangement. There are surprisingly many "round" numbers in the list, whatever that may mean. But have a look yourself...
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: SMB784 on October 18, 2020, 04:22:13 pm
Focusing on CalibrationData.dat, and trying to reduce our analysis area:

The file has 2 exact halves (maybe for backup). So we can split it in 2 and disregard the 2nd half (#2).

Just looking at 1st half (#1):

If we take into account that the first 2-bytes are CRC/checksum, we can further split the file in 2, assuming that there are 2 channels calib, at the 0x5824 mark.

If we compare these remaining 2 files (1a and 1b), we see lots of similarities. Maybe we can even swap both blocks and that would swap the calib of both channels...

Attached is a visual mapping (raw) of half #1 and the splittings that I talked about.

If anyone wants to try assembling something I may have a look at the CRC/checksum to see how that's done.

If indeed one of the halves is a backup, I wonder if that backup is common to all models of with the same model number.  I have attached my CalibrationData.dat file to compare.  I tried doing a diff between the hexdumps of TurboTom's file and my own, and I saw some significant differences, as well as some areas that were common between both.  Not sure what to make of that just yet.

The calibration files appear to consist of 32 bit signed integers. I removed a few bytes at the start to align the four-byte boundaries properly and converted them to decimal, keeping 16-byte groups so it's comparable with the typical hex editor arrangement. There are surprisingly many "round" numbers in the list, whatever that may mean. But have a look yourself...

Its possible that these 32 bit signed integers actually represent decimal numbers, as it isn't possible to tell where the decimal is intended to go in a binary/hexadecimal number.  I wonder if that is what we are looking at.
Title: Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
Post by: battlecoder on October 19, 2020, 09:17:14 pm
@battlecoder: Don't worry and just get the DG811. The hardware of the latter and the DG900 is identical except for the casing colour (...). This can be officially verified since considerable time ago, a chinese language service manual for these instruments surfaced, stating exactly the same P/N for the main PCB for these two instruments. Moreover, AFAIK there even is/was an update option by Rigol to add the second channel to single-channel versions of the AWG.
Unfortunately the *ONE* company importing that line of devices here does not have the DG811. The lower they go is the DG822, from what they told me today.