Author Topic: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series  (Read 99421 times)

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Offline TurboTom

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #700 on: December 09, 2020, 10:37:15 am »
I tried copying the calibration point list to my Cal file as suggested by tv84, I also added in some of the missing data of the following two blocks that appear to have very similar structure. The result was worse than with the unmodified file, with a very distinct amplitude jump (drop) at exactly 25MHz (i.e. when stepping from 25 MHz to 25.000 001 MHz. Moreover, the amplitude droop towards 100MHz was as pronounced as when I ran the generator without any calibration file, i.e. it dropped by half. With the original ("incomplete" -> 30MHz) cal file, it's much better and droops only by round about 2.5dB, while with the DG2000 cal file, it doesn't droop at all vs. frequency  but has other inaccuracies (DC offset, general amplitude and frequency figures).

Edit: The divisor for the cal frequency list appears to be 3906.25, resulting in cal points (among others) at exactly 30MHz and 25MHz, which my test described above suggests. Since by replacing the cal point list of my original DG800 file with the DG2000 file, the cal points got shifted down by 16 places, the 25MHz calibration will now point to a place that may not be specified (even though I filled in some data from the DG2000 file that I assumed to be cal parameters), resulting in the "jump". This means, there has to be a "hard" correlation of cal file locations regarding frequency / parameter allocation.

The "second" calibration frequency table, located at 0x438f, starts in the DG800 file at 500kHz and as the last two frequency points, holds 30MHz and 100MHz, whereas the DG2000's file starts at 300kHz and has the additional "Low End" cal points 600kHz and 900kHz. From 1.25MHz to 30MHz, the cal points match between the two while between 30MHz and 100MHz, the DG2000 cal file contains 11 more points. This quantity of cal points and also the presence of more low-end cal points on the DG2000 makes me assume that this instrument is calibrated to a higher accuracy vs. the DG800 / DG900(?) series, legitimating its "higher rank" in Rigol's AWG product range. Maybe the customers are paying for calibration accuracy rather than for hardware value. Just a wild guess, though...  :-//

The blocks following the Cal Points, starting in 0x451e and 0x45e6 appear to hold the calibration constants, consisting of little endian DWords. The number of entries matches the number of Cal Points and apparently, the value of the constants is continuously rising (which makes sense as when the frequency increases, the gain drops). The presence of two such cal blocks for each channel makes me assume that these two blocks calibrate the two output amp configurations. I've now got a pretty good idea of what's going on there and could possibly fit a curve on the DG2000 cal points to extrapolate the existing cal point ensemble of my DG800 in order to generate the missing ones between 30 and 100MHz. If I find some time, I'll give it a try...

Edit 2-3/8: I started analyzing the cal data and it appears more complex than anticipated. The first blocks of cal data don't appear to make much sense, neither in Integer32 nor in Float32 format. The second blocks may very well be cal factors in Float32 format. But maybe, the two cal blocks are meant to be used in combination, either to describe a starting value and a (linear) slope or the like, or maybe as a quotient or similar to improve resolution. I attached an oversize PDF and a zipped Excel file (converted form OpenOffice) of the lists. Maybe someone is interested in having a go at the puzzle...

Edit 3-1/4: Unfortunately, my recent experiments prove that only patching the cal file locations that I analyzed in my PDF, won't suffice to "smooth out" the upper frequency range. I copied the upper end cal data of the DG2000 that better matches my existing DG800 cal file, taking good care that there's no improper interval specification, and the result is worse than with the original cal files. The AWG will perform flawlessly up to 40MHz and show a sudden level drop there by about 10% (when crossing the 40MHz -> 40.000001MHz border), drooping further when frequency is increased. This droop is once again way worse than with the original cal file. The only explanation for this is that calibration information in other locations of the file is missing for a complete upper end calibration. With this information, it may be advisable to look again more closely at a proper SCPI calibration... Bummer!  :'(
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 11:43:04 pm by TurboTom »
 
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Offline Hobbit13

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #701 on: December 10, 2020, 04:08:57 pm »
The "second" calibration frequency table, located at 0x438f, starts in the DG800 file at 500kHz and as the last two frequency points, holds 30MHz and 100MHz, whereas the DG2000's file starts at 300kHz and has the additional "Low End" cal points 600kHz and 900kHz. From 1.25MHz to 30MHz, the cal points match between the two while between 30MHz and 100MHz, the DG2000 cal file contains 11 more points. This quantity of cal points and also the presence of more low-end cal points on the DG2000 makes me assume that this instrument is calibrated to a higher accuracy vs. the DG800 / DG900(?) series, legitimating its "higher rank" in Rigol's AWG product range. Maybe the customers are paying for calibration accuracy rather than for hardware value. Just a wild guess, though...  :-//

If I'm bored I could make a accuracy comparison between the DG811 and DG2052 connected to exactly the same scope.

The datasheets of the DG900 and DG2000 list exactly the same accuracy specs, and up to 35MHz all specs are also identical for the DG800. I would not expect them to differ in output accuracy for the range below 25 MHz.  And between the DG900 and DG2000 I do not expect any difference. Pricing is almost the same, the DG2000 is just the direct successor of the DG1000 range (Same housing etc.) and the DG900 is a new range.
Due to this Rigol's range is now a bit weird, with a 16bit generator as low end, and 14 bit above that. Don't get why they are still promoting the DG1000 as an active product.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #702 on: December 26, 2020, 01:29:41 pm »
just for...





ETA: Forget info about signal. Cable between DG and SA 30cm RG316 so its effect to this curve is nonsense..
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 02:54:33 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline SMB784

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #703 on: December 30, 2020, 03:38:58 pm »
just for...





ETA: Forget info about signal. Cable between DG and SA 30cm RG316 so its effect to this curve is nonsense..

Is this a spectrum of the upgraded DG811?  Or is it a spectrum from another model?  If it's from a DG811, how did you successfully calibrate it?

Offline TurboTom

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #704 on: December 30, 2020, 05:49:08 pm »
Is this a spectrum of the upgraded DG811?  Or is it a spectrum from another model?  If it's from a DG811, how did you successfully calibrate it?

 :-// This is just what you get when you analyze a factory-calibrated DG800 series intrument that's "liberated" to 100MHz. Mine doesn't perform much different. Slightly more than 2dB level drop at the top end... @rf-loop's specimen may perform slightly better than average.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #705 on: January 04, 2021, 10:09:19 am »
just for...





ETA: Forget info about signal. Cable between DG and SA 30cm RG316 so its effect to this curve is nonsense..

Is this a spectrum of the upgraded DG811?  Or is it a spectrum from another model?  If it's from a DG811, how did you successfully calibrate it?

DG811 what have dementia and do not remember she is DG811 and think name is DG992.
Any kind of "calibration"? No more than what is inside out from box new DG811.
If look Rigol specs for DG992 it is not far from its limits. Up to 80MHz inside limits.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 10:14:04 am by rf-loop »
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Offline CeD

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #706 on: January 11, 2021, 12:46:51 pm »
Small question

Is there a way to change the way numbers (and especially thousands) appear on the DG8XX DG 9xx series ?

It's extremely errorprone (for me) to see "90 Hz" written as 90.000,000 Hz
 

Offline CeD

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #707 on: January 11, 2021, 12:58:23 pm »
I'm answering myself,
that seems to be inside
 Utility  System Setting  Delimiter

I'll try that ! It seems it won't get rid of the useless zeroes, but it's a start.

By the way, my "upgraded" DG812 displays a very good sinusoid at 80Mhz, at 2Vpp, after that I have a small drop in amplitude but the signal remains a serious sinusoid up to 100Mhz.

Strangely enough, I've got a bit of an higher amplitude around 60Mhz (as other people have reported) so hitting 2,2Vpp. I guess this is the part that would benefit calibrating, but quite frankly, as a pure signal generator, the upgraded DG812 is usable at least up to 80Mhz.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:12:43 pm by CeD »
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #708 on: January 11, 2021, 01:17:42 pm »
Small question

Is there a way to change the way numbers (and especially thousands) appear on the DG8XX DG 9xx series ?

It's extremely errorprone (for me) to see "90 Hz" written as 90.000,000 Hz

Delimiter: point, comma, space, none
Decimal: point, comma

But there is one bug from long long buglist. If select decimal ,  it still display .
With decimal set , and delimiter none: 90.000000 Hz
With decimal set , and delimiter space: 90.000 000 Hz

So I can not set it for 90,000000 Hz what is perfectly right in my homeland.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:26:13 pm by rf-loop »
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Offline CeD

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #709 on: January 11, 2021, 01:28:14 pm »
Yes, I tried and

DOT : displays 90Hz as 90.0000000 Hz : it's better than nothing ;( I don't get why they insist on displaying useless zeroes
COMMA : displays 90 as 90,0000000 but, but if you hit the keyboard, (like to enter a new frequency by hand) it reverts back to 90.000000 in the keyboard screen :) so yeah...

So I used "dot" with separator "none" ; as at least : it's the same everywhere.

I'm not complaining too much as this is entry level hardware, but it's a bit sad that such easy to fix bugs remain so long.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 01:30:30 pm by CeD »
 

Offline mandor

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #710 on: January 31, 2021, 01:23:16 pm »
Excuse me for parachuting into this topic.
Are you telling me if I buy Rigol DG811 I can hack it into 100MHz/2 channel generator?
I'm looking for my first signal generator. Would this be a better option than UTG962 and FY6900?
I'm into amateur radio beside electronics so I thought it might be a good option to look for something that can do at least 50MHz.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 01:25:13 pm by mandor »
 

Offline DaveR

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #711 on: January 31, 2021, 02:30:09 pm »
Are you telling me if I buy Rigol DG811 I can hack it into 100MHz/2 channel generator?
I'm looking for my first signal generator. Would this be a better option than UTG962 and FY6900?

Yes and Yes.
 

Online bd139

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #712 on: March 28, 2021, 01:38:06 pm »
Are these still crackable i.e. if I grab one with the latest firmware, can I roll it back and crack it?
 

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #713 on: March 28, 2021, 04:35:35 pm »
I would say yes.
 

Online bd139

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #714 on: March 30, 2021, 10:39:42 am »
Ok I got a DG811 and it has unlisted firmware 00.02.05.00.00 on it. hold my beer  :-DD

Procedure so far:

1. Downgrading to 02.04.00 at the moment. Did this as the 02.05 firmware is unlisted and unknown ... tested OK
2. Installed GEL file from https://drive.google.com/file/d/16nC-uJ12MXilJElv4Eukvt1IW4RzGdb7/view?usp=sharing (reboot it and whack help) ... tested OK
3. now thinks it's a DG992 but with 01.08. ... party.
4. Install https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3119264/#msg3119264 GEL file (finish upgrade 02.04) ... OK
5. doing 02.04 upgrade next... OK went straight in fine.

Ok so I have a DG992 with 02.04. Thanks again tv84 and everyone else who was involved in this  :-+





I would update the serial number but Ultra Sigma is still downloading and I've probably shot the warranty now anyway  :-DD
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 11:08:10 am by bd139 »
 
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Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #715 on: March 30, 2021, 12:01:50 pm »
1. Downgrading to 02.04.00 at the moment. Did this as the 02.05 firmware is unlisted and unknown ... tested OK

v2.05 here.

I think you should have corrected the S/N earlier but I'm not sure.
 

Online bd139

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #716 on: March 30, 2021, 12:14:56 pm »
Ahha. Not really bothered TBH - works which is the important bit.
 

Offline SMB784

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #717 on: March 30, 2021, 04:50:14 pm »
Is there a change log for the 2.05 firmware? Does it provide anything useful?

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #718 on: March 30, 2021, 05:01:29 pm »
Code: [Select]
[Model Supported] DG811,DG821,DG831,DG812,DG822,DG832,DG952,DG972,DG992,DG2052,DG2072,DG2102
[Latest Revision Date] 2020-05-30


[Updated Contents]

v00.02.05.00.00 2020-05-30

     - Solve the problem that the machine model changes to DG811 when upgrading to 00.02.04.00.00
 

Online bd139

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #719 on: March 30, 2021, 05:05:12 pm »
Wasn't that problem already solved in this thread?  :-DD
 

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #720 on: March 30, 2021, 05:09:07 pm »
Wasn't that problem already solved in this thread?  :-DD

:) It seems this has became official support.
 
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Offline SMB784

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #721 on: March 30, 2021, 05:33:25 pm »
Wasn't that problem already solved in this thread?  :-DD

:) It seems this has became official support.

SO glad they fixed that major issue  ::)

Online bateau020

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #722 on: April 04, 2021, 08:05:43 pm »
Just to make it a bit nicer, if anyone has a Dymo label printer, this label is close enough. Just needs careful cutting out. Monochrome unfortunately, but better than staring at blatantly false information on the instrument's front.

Edit: Works on my LabelManager PnP printer, 12mm / 1/2 inch D1 cartridge, Dymo Label software on MacOS. Might not work on other types of labels and software/hardware.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 08:22:50 pm by bateau020 »
 
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Offline Wintel

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #723 on: April 27, 2021, 11:50:56 pm »
This script replaces the previous one and also downloads the calibration files so that people can analyse them.
Hi tv84,

After backup the DG811 calibration files, if upgrade firmware broken the calibrate, how to restore the calibration files to the same DG811?

Thanks!


 

Offline Wintel

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Re: New Rigol 16-bit function generators DG800/900 series
« Reply #724 on: April 29, 2021, 06:14:00 pm »
Thanks for your kindness, but I am only care about Rigol DG811 & related issues now.
With 02.05  first you need do is take cal and memory copy, just for cases something goes really bad. If you do not afraid this can jump over.
There is available method for this backup copy...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg3272174/#msg3272174

Just including .GEL file to USB root and insert USB to running DG and when it ask you want FW update then yes (aftere then it run this small script). It write this data to this USB flash. So you need many USB or take them out and save.

Note, NAND backup takes long time and after it is ready rolling image stops rolling but it do not finish... I wait 5 minutes after rolling image stop  and after then I shot DG off and take USB and read... all was there. I think it can also just pull out without power off.
This backup calib is much faster and after some time it stops and goes out. But  if you do not take USB out then after some time it ask again do you want update... just cancel this.
after this or if you have jumped over this backup...


Hi rf-loop,

After to do the full NAND backup, how can I restore the whole NAND backup file to DG811?

Best Regards,

 


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