Author Topic: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000  (Read 82693 times)

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Offline Electro Fan

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Key Differences: RIGOL DS1000Z vs 2000 Series
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2013, 09:04:03 pm »
I understand the 2000 has the following advantages over the 1000Z:

1. larger screen
2. higher waveform capture rate
3. deeper memory
4. more knobs

In addition to the above what performance parameters and features might be most missed by a user on the 1000Z vs the 2000?  (What are the other key differences that might cause someone to give up the 2 extra channels and go with the 2000 series?)  Thx
 

Offline alank2

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2013, 09:06:40 pm »
Most importantly:

1.  SAMPLE RATE.
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: Key Differences: RIGOL DS1000Z vs 2000 Series
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2013, 09:10:52 pm »
I understand the 2000 has the following advantages over the 1000Z:

1. larger screen
2. higher waveform capture rate
3. deeper memory
4. more knobs

In addition to the above what performance parameters and features might be most missed by a user on the 1000Z vs the 2000?  (What are the other key differences that might cause someone to give up the 2 extra channels and go with the 2000 series?)  Thx
So as far as I'm concerned, if given the choice, Dave's son Sagan would pick the 2000 series over the 1000Z because of the knobs...  :-DD
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2013, 11:03:48 pm »
Most importantly:

1.  SAMPLE RATE.

OK, very good point; how about the next several that should be on the list?  Thx
 

Offline alank2

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2013, 11:16:25 pm »
OK, very good point; how about the next several that should be on the list?  Thx

Best way is to download both datasheets and dig through the specifications section.  There was another thread around here I think that had some comparisons in it...

Good luck,

Alan
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #80 on: August 06, 2013, 12:20:01 am »
OK, very good point; how about the next several that should be on the list?  Thx

Best way is to download both datasheets and dig through the specifications section.  There was another thread around here I think that had some comparisons in it...

Good luck,

Alan

Part of it is sorting through spec tables.  I've done a lot of that with many products here (too many maybe), but even after you sort thru and find the difs then you have to evaluate the significance/value/impact of the difs - part of that is subjective (depends on your use case of course), but part of it could be best/better judged by people who have more experience.  Anyway, I'm not expecting anyone to do work for me, but if anyone has any opinions and they enjoy sharing their opinions that's what I was seeking.  Thx  (Obviously, the 1000Z is a new product but I bet someone with much more scope experience than me is looking at the tradeoffs between the 2000 series and the 1000Z.  I'm open to any opinions on the tradeoffs between the two, especially anything that is really useful in the 2000 that is missing in the 1000Z.)
 

Offline alank2

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2013, 12:32:34 am »
Here is what I came up with looking at both - hopefully no errors:



To me the biggest pain there is the sample rate loss...
 

Offline grego

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2013, 08:16:17 pm »
From what I understand we won't see the MSO4000 series here in the states until closer to the end of the year, more like November.  A little disappointing but it is what it is.  Hopefully we at least get some US pricing before that. :)
 

Offline bob_60

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #83 on: August 07, 2013, 08:46:10 am »
One important feature that apparently is only available as an option you have to pay for on the 1000Z, is the waveform record feature:

In the 1000Z specs, it's listed as:
    "Up to 60,000frames Real-time Waveform Record(Opt.)"
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2013, 10:25:29 pm »
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2013, 10:36:50 pm »
The 2000 has 14 horizontal screen divisions, the 1000 is only 12. Same resolution though. The font text on the 1000Z is really tiny, not good for the vision impared.
Unless you need 4 channels, the 2000 is the much better scope in every area. But of course it costs more.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2013, 11:35:29 pm »
The DS1000Z is good for you if you need four channels at 250MSa/s. Sometimes you might want 4 channels but not so much single shot bandwidth. With that 25MHz built-in generator it might be great for audio and other low frequency circuits.
But the good old DS2000 giver you 1GSa/s for each channel.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 11:41:20 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Offline bbjk7

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2013, 02:40:51 pm »
Long time fan, 1st post  ;D

I'll just leave this here for us Aussies  ;)
http://www.eyou.com.au/category/rigol-ds1000z/

 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2013, 11:54:33 pm »
Long time fan, 1st post  ;D

I'll just leave this here for us Aussies  ;)
http://www.eyou.com.au/category/rigol-ds1000z/

bbjk7, Thanks for posting, and Welcome!

Grego, for you:

http://www.eyou.com.au/product/1834/

Rigol MSO4012 100MHz, 4Gs/S, 2-Ch (Analog) 16CH (Digital) 9" color LCD

Something to further the anticipation  :)

EF
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 01:29:40 am by Electro Fan »
 

Offline grego

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2013, 03:13:49 am »
Hah - but what I really need is for it to show up on the US distributor sites!

That price seems a bit high for the device too - $3300 USD (with exchange rate) when the DSO is $2400?  Something ain't kosher there.

Oh wait - that's $3300 for the 2 channel?  That's even worse - the $2400 is for the DSO4014.  The 2 Channel is only $1999 - so yeah, definitely something smells with that price.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 03:15:38 am by grego »
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2013, 04:36:59 am »
Hah - but what I really need is for it to show up on the US distributor sites!

That price seems a bit high for the device too - $3300 USD (with exchange rate) when the DSO is $2400?  Something ain't kosher there.

Oh wait - that's $3300 for the 2 channel?  That's even worse - the $2400 is for the DSO4014.  The 2 Channel is only $1999 - so yeah, definitely something smells with that price.

I don't think the exchange rate explains the pricing but if it does translate into US$s I think what Rigol would be saying is "we dare you to buy an Agilent".
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 04:52:57 am by Electro Fan »
 

Offline bbjk7

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2013, 11:43:14 am »
Hah - but what I really need is for it to show up on the US distributor sites!

That price seems a bit high for the device too - $3300 USD (with exchange rate) when the DSO is $2400?  Something ain't kosher there.

Oh wait - that's $3300 for the 2 channel?  That's even worse - the $2400 is for the DSO4014.  The 2 Channel is only $1999 - so yeah, definitely something smells with that price.

Hah - kosher he says  :-DD

Mate, while the people who import to Aus are probably jews, I can assure you they know NOTHING about kosher.

Even digital media that doesn't even need to pass the borders... Go to the Australian site and you'll pay 50% more even with the conversion rate.

To prove my point

Adobe CS6 Master Suite on US site:  $2599 USD
Adobe CS6 Master Suite on AU site:  $3949 AUD  ($3714.03 USD)

 :rant:
/end rant
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2013, 12:33:42 pm »
If you think that price is high try buying one in China, where these things are actually made...it will cost you even more! I really don't get Rigol's pricing in different markets.


Hah - but what I really need is for it to show up on the US distributor sites!

That price seems a bit high for the device too - $3300 USD (with exchange rate) when the DSO is $2400?  Something ain't kosher there.

Oh wait - that's $3300 for the 2 channel?  That's even worse - the $2400 is for the DSO4014.  The 2 Channel is only $1999 - so yeah, definitely something smells with that price.
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Offline Orange

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2013, 07:48:40 am »
Batronix now offers the DS1000Z series in Europe

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Four-Channel-Oscilloscopes.html

No affiliation to Batronix, just a happy customer  :)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2013, 08:14:46 am »
If you think that price is high try buying one in China, where these things are actually made...it will cost you even more! I really don't get Rigol's pricing in different markets.

I spoke to Rigol about this, and thye said China imposes a 70% tax within China. If you sell outside China, the manufacturer does not pay it, hence lower prices in the US than China.
 

Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2013, 09:21:57 am »
They must have a more complex taxing system than a flat 70% rate then, perhaps based on categories of equipment or price brackets or something. What I have noticed is that the higher end (i.e. more pricey) the equipment, the more obvious the difference between the US and Chinese prices. The DS1104Z for example which I bought from China is still cheaper than in the US, while the higher end models such as the DS2000 or 4000 would be cheaper in the US than in China.

If you think that price is high try buying one in China, where these things are actually made...it will cost you even more! I really don't get Rigol's pricing in different markets.

I spoke to Rigol about this, and thye said China imposes a 70% tax within China. If you sell outside China, the manufacturer does not pay it, hence lower prices in the US than China.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2013, 09:28:40 am »
They must have a more complex taxing system than a flat 70% rate then, perhaps based on categories of equipment or price brackets or something. What I have noticed is that the higher end (i.e. more pricey) the equipment, the more obvious the difference between the US and Chinese prices. The DS1104Z for example which I bought from China is still cheaper than in the US, while the higher end models such as the DS2000 or 4000 would be cheaper in the US than in China.

Yes, I'm not sure of the exact structure, but the Rigol guy I spoke to mentioned that figure. There is possibly also the issue of dealing inside and outside designated free trade zones, although I'm not sure how that works for Chinese manufacturing exporters like Rigol.
For example, one company in China that produced our product for us had to operate within the (physical area around Shanghai) free trade zone in order to be competitive on pricing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Economic_Zones_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China
 

Online Wytnucls

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2013, 02:08:28 pm »
I paid a 17% tax on electronic stuff I bought in Shanghai. Perhaps that's what your contact was trying to say, instead of 70%.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2013, 02:31:29 pm »
I paid a 17% tax on electronic stuff I bought in Shanghai. Perhaps that's what your contact was trying to say, instead of 70%.

His English wasn't that great, so maybe!
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: new RIGOL DS1000Z and... MSO4000
« Reply #99 on: September 27, 2013, 03:08:49 am »
No, it's pretty much what the Chinese want to do. They taxed me 30% for bringing my watch in, but only 18% for my iPhone.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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