New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[xrunner]

I got my DS1054Z yesterday. While learning it I decided to do a bandwidth test. I used a Marconi 2022 to generate the RF and terminated the signal properly at the scope with 50 ohms. I had upgraded the firmware yesterday to 00.04.03SP2, but I did not do this test before I did that, and I have not done the "hack".

Here's the thing - this scope has a bandwidth of ~100 MHz,  I have done this test several times and checked to make sure I'm doing it right. Here's the data from the scope -

@ 1 MHz: Vpp = 208 mV
@ 50 MHz: Vpp = 178 mV (-1.3 dB)
@ 100 MHz: Vpp = 138 mV (-3.5 dB)

You can do the calc yourself - 20log(V2/V1).

So, what's going on? Am I doing something wrong?

[c4757p]

Probably variation took the bandwidth safety margin a bit higher than usual. Mine with the "hack" tests well over 200 MHz with the risetime method, very close to the theoretical upper limit of their frontend design.

[xrunner]

Probably variation took the bandwidth safety margin a bit higher than usual. Mine with the "hack" tests well over 200 MHz with the risetime method, very close to the theoretical upper limit of their frontend design.

Huh, well cool. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something incredibly dumb. Well, I'm glad to find the scope doesn't meet it's bandwidth claims in this case. 

[Orange]

That's... an interesting glitch my 1kZ picked up in the middle of otherwise reasonable operation.

What the hell?

That is a scope hardware problem !

[c4757p]

That's... an interesting glitch my 1kZ picked up in the middle of otherwise reasonable operation.

What the hell?

That is a scope hardware problem !

Looks that way. Could be "normal", though - it's rare, I've seen it twice since I got the scope, and guess what - my TDS-380 also does something very similar.

Has anybody else seen that?

[ankerwolf]

Hello,

... I decided to do a bandwidth test.

look here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg743080/#msg743080
I did it long before.
LG Wolfgang

[xrunner]

I did it long before.
LG Wolfgang

Whether you have done it "long before" has nothing to do with the issue I am describing. My scope does not have the 100 MHz hack. That's the point. Your graph simply shows the response of the scope with the hack. Mine has essentially a 100 MHz bandwidth without doing a hack. 

[c4757p]

Just remember, any scope will be designed above its rated bandwidth. If they designed a 50 MHz scope to sell as a 50 MHz scope, they'd have to process a whole bunch of RMAs from people who got a 49 MHz scope due to natural variations 

[Howardlong]

I did it long before.
LG Wolfgang

Whether you have done it "long before" has nothing to do with the issue I am describing. My scope does not have the 100 MHz hack. That's the point. Your graph simply shows the response of the scope with the hack. Mine has essentially a 100 MHz bandwidth without doing a hack. 

Did you terminate at the scope with a 50 ohm through terminator?

The 1074Z I have had a 90MHz bandwidth measured with an RF signal generator (and thru terminator), it's about 140MHz with the 100MHz liberation measured the same way.

[xrunner]

Did you terminate at the scope with a 50 ohm through terminator?

Yes, I specifically stated as such in the first post ...

The 1074Z I have had a 90MHz bandwidth measured with an RF signal generator (and thru terminator), it's about 140MHz with the 100MHz liberation measured the same way.

I don't know what to tell you. Mine is the DS1054Z - a 50 MHz scope, and I have measured the bandwidth numerous times today correctly, and it's about ~100 MHz. If I did anything wrong I be very happy to listen. 

[ankerwolf]

Did you terminate at the scope with a 50 ohm through terminator?

Yes, I did. Dirctly on the scope input. No use of probes.

[xrunner]

Yes, I did. Dirctly on the scope input. No use of probes.

I don't think he was directing that question to you ...

[Howardlong]

Did you terminate at the scope with a 50 ohm through terminator?

Yes, I specifically stated as such in the first post ...

The 1074Z I have had a 90MHz bandwidth measured with an RF signal generator (and thru terminator), it's about 140MHz with the 100MHz liberation measured the same way.

I don't know what to tell you. Mine is the DS1054Z - a 50 MHz scope, and I have measured the bandwidth numerous times today correctly, and it's about ~100 MHz. If I did anything wrong I be very happy to listen. 

Sorry, I missed that you'd already stated that. The 1074Z I am giving as an example, inside the front end is the same as the 1054Z, it has 70MHz already liberated out of the box. There are some digitally controlled analogue* filters in the front end that are relaxed depending in the model, or how it's liberated.

It's not 100MHz if it's 3.5dB down, it'll be something a little short of that, maybe 95MHz or so, just saying, just splitting a hair or two.

One further note, I assume this was on a single channel too, at 1GSa/s sampling. The interpolation can play some funny tricks with pulse and step generators, but as you're doing this with a sine wave it would seem unlikely.

If you're happy with your current circa 100MHz then that's cool. But you could also squeeze quite a bit more out it if you wanted to. The step test I did on my liberated 1074Z with a <50ps step generator and it showed bandwidth in excess of 150MHz (2.3ns rise time) - see 16:24 here:

http://youtu.be/mS3sCJd_GPk

*Edited for clarity

[xrunner]

Sorry, I missed that you'd already stated that.

No problem. 

The 1074Z I am giving as an example, inside the front end is the same as the 1054Z, it has 70MHz already liberated out of the box. There are some digitally controlled analogue* filters in the front end that are relaxed depending in the model, or how it's liberated.

Understood.

It's not 100MHz if it's 3.5dB down, it'll be something a little short of that, maybe 95MHz or so, just saying, just splitting a hair or two.

Yes, it's about that. Pretty close to 100 MHz though.

One further note, I assume this was on a single channel too, at 1GSa/s sampling. The interpolation can play some funny tricks with pulse and step generators, but as you're doing this with a sine wave it would seem unlikely.

Yes a single channel.

If you're happy with your current circa 100MHz then that's cool. But you could also squeeze quite a bit more out it if you wanted to. The step test I did on my liberated 1074Z with a <50ps step generator and it showed bandwidth in excess of 150MHz (2.3ns rise time) - see 16:24 here:

Since it's nearly 100 MHz now, I'm not too inclined to hack it. But I'm sure that it'll end up that way next year anyway. 

Thanks for your post.

[Gibol]

126 pages on the topic... wow thats too much for me, forgive me but i have to ask.
Can ds1054z be hacked into fully functioning 100MHz scope or not? I'm considering buying this one.

[c4757p]

Yes.

[Fungus]

I don't know what to tell you. Mine is the DS1054Z - a 50 MHz scope, and I have measured the bandwidth numerous times today correctly, and it's about ~100 MHz. If I did anything wrong I be very happy to listen. 

You got lucky!

Do the hack and see what you get.   

[Fungus]

126 pages on the topic... wow thats too much for me, forgive me but i have to ask.
Can ds1054z be hacked into fully functioning 100MHz scope or not? I'm considering buying this one.

Yes.

[xrunner]

You got lucky!

Do the hack and see what you get.   

LOL - I prolly will soon because I'm too curious as to what I'll see. I'm glad I checked it first so I have something to compare it too.

 

[Orion12]

A 'hack' is available to enable 100MHz bandwidth and a number of other features which are normally only available at additional cost. Users considering this should be aware that it is not approved by Rigol and may void the warranty. A website featuring the code generator to enable the features can be found at http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/. The code DSER enables all features except 500uV vertical resolution, which should not be used since it is not supported on this scope and will cause problems.

Can anyone provided further DETAIL(s) on the "Nature" of the "Problems Caused" by enabling the 500uV vertical resolution ?

Thanks & Cheers from Orion12 . . . I have an DS1054Z on it's way 

[weilrennwagen]

I recently updated to Firmware 00.04.03.02.03 which shows 00.04.03.SP2 on the scope. In other threads, people are talking about using SP4 a while back? Am I missing something here?

Also, when using a low-pass filter (math function) on square wave there is about 1/4 period horizontal shift in the math display.

Seems like Rigol needs to do more tweaks still.

[maxastuto]

helo my friend, i buy a new Rigol DS 1054Z . I noticed that all options are on trial for 35 hours that having noticed that every time he lit the oscilloscope expired time, I realized that within 3 or 4 days of use trial versions would have expired. So I immediately made the hack. I performed the procedure as well as on the website by entering the serial number of the model and the code options DSFR and immediately after the result was a code called "private key" that I did not use, and then the serial number consists of four groups of digits and letters. I added this code and all options preinstalled by "trial" became "official" 10MHz, Memory deep 24Mtps etc etc. and the name is changed to the oscilloscope DS 1104Z.
So, I think the result was excellent 100%.
In some forums but I read that you had to enter the code options DSER. Was it not necessary to enter the DSFR. I tried to enter the same data on the site key generator but I put this code options DSER: I noticed that the code "private key" is unchanged while the key code serial instead in the last two groups of letters and numbers is different.
What code was used options? the DSFR or DSER?
My oscilloscope originally had this data:
software vers. 0:04:03
board version 0.1.1.
In the event that the transaction was fair to insert the code DSER options, you can repeat the operation again by entering a second time according to the number of serial key that was entering the second code options?

[maxastuto]

 :-//To reset the options enabled by the code option that DFSR wrong, I run the following procedure: I connected the oscilloscope with the LAN cable.
software Ultra Sigma saw perfectly the connection. Then I open the option panel and SCPI command string appeared * IDN?
I plugged in the string "SYSTem: option: Uninstall
Then I clicked "send and read" but came out "error and timeout expired".
I checked out from system and DS 1104Z. Why do not you come back to the original mode DS 1054Z.
I would like to know if this procedure cancels options restoring the trial time, or eliminate them for good? Because my intentions are to have to perform again this time by entering the correct code options: DSER. What is the exact mode and how you have to write exactly the string respecting symbols, spaces, upper and lowercase letters?
Modify message

[Fennec]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg654839/?topicseen#msg654839

[rolycat]

Due to continuing confusion over the correct option for hacking this oscilloscope, I have revised the FAQ section in the first post of the thread.

If anyone feels that it is still unclear or incorrect, please let me know.