New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[ebastler]

btw : I just recieved my NewBee Rigol DS1054Z or should I say DS1104Z 100Mhz Scope . . . What a Nice New Techie Toy . . . Thanks again for ALL of Your Inputs & Advises
Cheers from Orion12 

I'm GLAD you are ENJOYING it! I like mine ALSO - even WITHOUT the hack it is BETTER than I expected.
 

xrunner, you are behind the fashion curve here ;-)
Orion12 has "Already" identified the next big "Trend" of using "Quotation Marks" instead of old-fashioned CAPS...

[Karel]

@Karel, look 4 posts up 

Oops... 

[Fennec]

Girlz !

http://en.lmgtfy.com/?q=eevblog+chatroom

Back to topic, okay ?!

[xrunner]

Back to topic, okay ?!

OK. 

I locked up my DS1054Z. Using the Math > FFT function. Locked it up hard. No buttons or knobs would work at all. Frozen. Had to power off/on. Guess I pushed it to it's limits. 

[jrevard]

...but do you think that a well-structured forum would be too simple to use? 
Look, i.e., at homestudioitalia forum: there is a thread for each topic, then you don't have to fish for something in a vegetable soup 
In Test Equipment there would be a sub section >DSO, then >Rigol, then >DS1054Z issues / DS1054 mods / DS1054 hits and in each one a thread for each topic, in which each one talks about the same thing!

Yes.

[Alfons]

The device is still great! No problems with the device. Very nice to have four channels available. I test the layout of my DIY soldering / desoldering-station and see the phase control with all signals: channels 1 + 2 connected as a differential probe for earth-free AC voltage-measurement of the soldering iron, channel 3 shows the zero crossing pulses, channel 4 the trigger pulses of the function generator. Tomorrow I'm starting to program the processor. 

[Fungus]

...but do you think that a well-structured forum would be too simple to use? 
Look, i.e., at homestudioitalia forum: there is a thread for each topic, then you don't have to fish for something in a vegetable soup 
In Test Equipment there would be a sub section >DSO, then >Rigol, then >DS1054Z issues / DS1054 mods / DS1054 hits and in each one a thread for each topic, in which each one talks about the same thing!

Yes.

...unless you just come here for a general sort of chat and don't want to have to go through all of the 10,000 sub-forums that system would create in case there might be something interesting there (with only one or two lonely threads in each).

And the quality of chat would go waaaay down because nobody would bother coming here except for buying advice (which wouldn't be there any more - see above).

[c4757p]

Organization is for paper, search is for computers. Why do you need a hundred categories each with some weirdly specific thing in them, when you can just search the forum for "DS1054Z", "DS1054Z issues", etc.?

[Alfons]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

[alsetalokin4017]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

[Marcos]

It's normal when switching timebase from let's say 1sec to 2sec or greater to have a huge delay (tens of seconds) till the scope is active again ?
It will not show any refreshed trace during this time.
Also, moving probe wire even if the probe is GND connected will increase or decrease the noise on trace. Isn't this supposed to be a steady "ground" reference ?
Looks like everything is "floating" inside this scope.

[Fungus]

It's normal when switching timebase from let's say 1sec to 2sec or greater to have a huge delay (tens of seconds) till the scope is active again ?

Yes.

It will not show any refreshed trace during this time.

It won't start again until it fills up the internal memory buffer (which is adjustable in size...there's your clue!)

Also, moving probe wire even if the probe is GND connected will increase or decrease the noise on trace.

Only if you set it to 1mV.

Isn't this supposed to be a steady "ground" reference ?

Welcome to the real world!

Radio noise is everywhere, even inside oscilloscopes.

[Marcos]

It's normal when switching timebase from let's say 1sec to 2sec or greater to have a huge delay (tens of seconds) till the scope is active again ?

Yes.

It will not show any refreshed trace during this time.

It won't start again until it fills up the internal memory buffer (which is adjustable in size...there's your clue!)

Indeed, if I set the MemDepth to 12K is much faster than Auto. But not instantly as I have seen on different other oscilloscopes (regular ones) Cheers for that
Check 25.30

https://youtu.be/CzY2abWCVTY

Also, moving probe wire even if the probe is GND connected will increase or decrease the noise on trace.

Only if you set it to 1mV.

You mean 10mV? I don't have such a low voltage set into mine.
Problem is even on 20mV is the same. And using the calibrator signal the horizontal lines from trace get bolder or thinner doing the same.

Isn't this supposed to be a steady "ground" reference ?

Welcome to the real world!

Radio noise is everywhere, even inside oscilloscopes.

[Fungus]

Also, moving probe wire even if the probe is GND connected will increase or decrease the noise on trace.

Only if you set it to 1mV.

You mean 10mV?

Yes, you can probably see it there, too.

It's normal, just cosmic noise.




PS: If it looks non-random then it might be "common mode" noise from your lights or whatever:

[xrunner]

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Hi alsetalokin4017,

I watched your video and the others on your YouTube channel, and thought I'd try to duplicate the math hang. Please see attached image. I let it run for 8,332 counts (which is a lot more than I saw in your videos) and took a snapshot, it never stopped. Even as I'm posting this it's still running over 10k counts now.

When I put in the USB stick to save the image, I had forgot that the firmware update file was still there that I had used last time to update the machine, and I accidentally selected "OK" and it re-updated the firmware file as it was taking statistics, but even that didn't make it hang - interesting.

If you want me to try something different I'll see what I can do here. 


Edit: Now over 11k counts ...

[Alfons]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Frankly enough time goes on it for it to discover the error in my circuits. The possible error of Rigol are not surfaced with me so far and I've measured very much with the device. Clearly it has quirks, but nothing that significantly affects the function. I've been using the device since about 1 month. In a silly incorrect measurement a few tracks and a few transistors are vaporized me, but the unit has survived without complaint.

[pascal_sweden]

In the video clip from Siglent about the new SDS2000X they talk about "digital trigger" that gives better performance in contrast with "analog trigger" on other DSO scopes.

"Traditional digital storage oscilloscopes use analog trigger technology, but Siglent oscilloscopes implement a digital trigger system using a digital comparator and digital time-to-digital converter. This overcomes the shortcomings of analog trigger circuits completely and provides high trigger sensitivity and low trigger jitter."

Does Rigol have the same? Also on the DS1054Z or only on the DS2000 series?

[alsetalokin4017]

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Hi alsetalokin4017,

I watched your video and the others on your YouTube channel, and thought I'd try to duplicate the math hang. Please see attached image. I let it run for 8,332 counts (which is a lot more than I saw in your videos) and took a snapshot, it never stopped. Even as I'm posting this it's still running over 10k counts now.

When I put in the USB stick to save the image, I had forgot that the firmware update file was still there that I had used last time to update the machine, and I accidentally selected "OK" and it re-updated the firmware file as it was taking statistics, but even that didn't make it hang - interesting.

If you want me to try something different I'll see what I can do here. 


Edit: Now over 11k counts ...

The bug seems to come along with the SP2 firmware. The measurements will freeze at random times when the conditions are met. Rarely for me will it go to 8k or 10k counts but it can indeed wait that long sometimes.

I've reported this to Rigol USA and they have reproduced the bug on their test scopes without difficulty. They have assigned "Case Number 9147" to the bug and are working on some kind of fix. Meanwhile the workaround that I'm using is to have the Math set up but turned OFF in the Math menu until I need to actually observe or record a reading, then turn the Math on for as short a time as possible, then turn it back off again. This will (I think) keep the Measurements running. But work quickly, because the Measurements can freeze after just a few hundred counts, sometimes less than a minute, with Math ON.

Here are some test results from two different scopes I've tested, the "Old Scope" is the one running Boot Version 0.0.1.2 that I've returned to Rigol, and the "New Scope" is the one with Boot Version 0.0.1.3 that they sent me as a replacement, which does not have the Freeze Bug problem. As you can see both will have the Measurements fail after random times, sometimes very quickly and sometimes not so fast. Both are running the latest SP2 firmware.

Old Scope:
stopped at 7k14
stopped at 8k326
(still running at over 19k with no input signals)
stopped at 5k171
stopped at 279
stopped at 4k51

New Scope:
(still running at over 23k with no input signals)
stopped at 715
stopped at 10k272
stopped at 1k37
stopped at 3k910 with no input signals!
(still running at 13k240 with no input signals)

So at 3 or 4 sample counts per second it could take an hour or more for the measurements to stop, or it could take as little as one minute or even less.

I've attached a simple Setup file (inside a zipfile for upload here) which you can use to try to reproduce the bug. Don't worry, it's nothing fancy, just normal Math using two channels and pretty much default settings everywhere else. Unzip it, copy to a USB stick and load it into your scope. Provide some signals for the Math to work on, and wait and watch.

As I said I think this bug affects the scopes with the latest firmware SP2. I discovered it only after I had already upgraded to SP2 so I haven't specifically tested for it on the earlier firmware. I did use SP1 for a long time though (months of daily use including Math) on the "Old Scope" and never noticed it.

[alsetalokin4017]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Frankly enough time goes on it for it to discover the error in my circuits. The possible error of Rigol are not surfaced with me so far and I've measured very much with the device. Clearly it has quirks, but nothing that significantly affects the function. I've been using the device since about 1 month. In a silly incorrect measurement a few tracks and a few transistors are vaporized me, but the unit has survived without complaint.

Really? Does your scope do this:

[xrunner]

The bug seems to come along with the SP2 firmware. The measurements will freeze at random times when the conditions are met. Rarely for me will it go to 8k or 10k counts but it can indeed wait that long sometimes.

I see, well if you have indeed had one go that high then let's see if I can beat it. I currently have a session going now and it's up to 12k counts.

I've reported this to Rigol USA and they have reproduced the bug on their test scopes without difficulty. ...

Read and noted. 

I've attached a simple Setup file (inside a zipfile for upload here) which you can use to try to reproduce the bug. Don't worry, it's nothing fancy, just normal Math using two channels and pretty much default settings everywhere else. Unzip it, copy to a USB stick and load it into your scope. Provide some signals for the Math to work on, and wait and watch.

OK so you want to set me up huh? 

Let me see how high this current math count goes and I'll give it a whirl ... now at 13k ... 

[Alfons]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Frankly enough time goes on it for it to discover the error in my circuits. The possible error of Rigol are not surfaced with me so far and I've measured very much with the device. Clearly it has quirks, but nothing that significantly affects the function. I've been using the device since about 1 month. In a silly incorrect measurement a few tracks and a few transistors are vaporized me, but the unit has survived without complaint.

Really? Does your scope do this:

? What are the scaling options in the Math menu?

Here everything is correct:

[ankerwolf]

Hello,
what's that?
Sorry, I don't know what I did before.

1) Suddenly T'D changed to blinking AUTO and the signals ... grrrr
AmplitudeError.mp4
https://youtu.be/mtfrbv4rSuQ

2) Suddenly some buttons don't work and MATH is freezing !
MathMeasure-Freeze#1.mp4
https://youtu.be/YFlbXBPpsos

LG Wolfgang

[xrunner]

So at 3 or 4 sample counts per second it could take an hour or more for the measurements to stop, or it could take as little as one minute or even less.

Welp ... I let mine go for about 1.6 hours - over 20k counts and it kept right on truckin'. I saw no sign of the stats freezing so I stopped it. I doubt I'd ever use it like that for that long anyways. 

But - some people might let it run all night.

However, I will use your setup file and conduct a test later this afternoon. Be interesting to see what happens. If it does freeze ... be interesting to speculate on the reason.

Stay tuned ... 

[alsetalokin4017]

Anyway ... I am amazed that the device manages to represent quasi 5 channels. Channels 1 + 2 = + differential signal + channel 3 +. 4. And it remains still fluid operated. I know older, essential expensive devices that does not make it. So do not just look at what it can not.

Set it up like that with a Math trace, put up some Measurements, and wait a while and see what happens...

Frankly enough time goes on it for it to discover the error in my circuits. The possible error of Rigol are not surfaced with me so far and I've measured very much with the device. Clearly it has quirks, but nothing that significantly affects the function. I've been using the device since about 1 month. In a silly incorrect measurement a few tracks and a few transistors are vaporized me, but the unit has survived without complaint.

Really? Does your scope do this:

? What are the scaling options in the Math menu?

Here everything is correct:

The Math Horizontal error I showed only happens at 500 ns/division, thankfully. It affects both SP1 and SP2 firmware.

[alsetalokin4017]

Hello,
what's that?
Sorry, I don't know what I did before.

1) Suddenly T'D changed to blinking AUTO and the signals ... grrrr
AmplitudeError.mp4
https://youtu.be/mtfrbv4rSuQ

2) Suddenly some buttons don't work and MATH is freezing !
MathMeasure-Freeze#1.mp4
https://youtu.be/YFlbXBPpsos

LG Wolfgang

In your first video I think you have simply lost the Trigger. Look at the Trigger level indicator on the right side of the screen... it is above the highest peak of the channel you are trying to trigger on. I think you are also in "average" acquire mode which is why the amplitude levels are changing the way they are when the trigger is lost.

I don't know quite what is going on in your second video, I can't see the scope's settings well enough. But it often takes several seconds for the Math and Measurements to catch up when a setting is changed, particularly the Horizontal timebase or the Trigger level.