Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1635050 times)

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Offline Chai

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1975 on: December 25, 2015, 12:07:34 am »
Anyone have a tip on how to keep the decoder values on screen when I scale in and position? The software seems to only want to keep the decoded i2c values on screen when the address r/w is visible. Here is zoomed out then zoomed in on decoded value 15.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1976 on: December 25, 2015, 07:32:52 pm »
Anyone have a tip on how to keep the decoder values on screen when I scale in and position? The software seems to only want to keep the decoded i2c values on screen when the address r/w is visible. Here is zoomed out then zoomed in on decoded value 15.

That's the way the decoder works, it will only decode what's on the screen, and even then it will sub sample the underlying data, so you'll never get more than a handful of bytes of decode available.
 

Offline Maf

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1977 on: December 27, 2015, 09:57:53 pm »
According to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-tables/ (and my own observations), with single channel enabled, 1ms/div and 12M memory depth, the scope samples with rate of 500MS/s. Shouldn't it actually be 1GS/s?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 10:09:33 pm by Maf »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1978 on: December 27, 2015, 10:08:10 pm »
According to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-tables/ (and my own observations), with 1ms/div and 12M memory depth, the scope samples with rate of 500MS/s. Shouldn't it actually be 1GS/s?

Depends on how many channels you have active.

1GSa/s is _only_ available with a single channel active.
 

Offline Maf

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1979 on: December 27, 2015, 10:10:12 pm »
According to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-tables/ (and my own observations), with 1ms/div and 12M memory depth, the scope samples with rate of 500MS/s. Shouldn't it actually be 1GS/s?

Depends on how many channels you have active.

1GSa/s is _only_ available with a single channel active.

I meant of course sampling with single channel enabled.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1980 on: December 27, 2015, 10:37:07 pm »
You have to go to 500 us/div or faster to get the 1GSa/s sample rate with 12M (or Auto) memory depth.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Maf

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1981 on: December 27, 2015, 10:39:21 pm »
You have to go to 500 us/div or faster to get the 1GSa/s sample rate with 12M (or Auto) memory depth.
Yes, I know. The question is: why? 12ms * 1GS/s is 12M samples, so this should fit into 12M memory.
 

Offline royshen9154

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1982 on: January 22, 2016, 01:53:29 am »
So I need to use the code DSER ?
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1983 on: January 22, 2016, 09:00:01 am »
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1984 on: January 22, 2016, 01:24:49 pm »
Yes, I know. The question is: why? 12ms * 1GS/s is 12M samples, so this should fit into 12M memory.
point #1: at 1ms/div, let say we can fit 10 period sine in 1 div, thats 10KHz signal, whats the point of higher sampling rate when you can just barely see the 10KHz signal packed together? 100KSample/s is adequate at that time range. you got 500MS/s 5000X more than it should be, what are you complaining?...

point #2: sampling at full memory capability means, you handicapped the color graded superimposed multi waveforms capability, you'll miss much much signal esp rare/intemittent signals. 99.99% of sampled data will become useless due to unable to appear (or reside in one single pixel) on the screen.

you can sample at full memory @ 1GS/s, there's menu for that... just set the time/div to the necesary value.. capture/stop and process zoom in/out the 24M sample data to your heart content desire.. ymmv..
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline robert_

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1985 on: January 22, 2016, 05:27:06 pm »
point #1: at 1ms/div, let say we can fit 10 period sine in 1 div, thats 10KHz signal, whats the point of higher sampling rate when you can just barely see the 10KHz signal packed together? 100KSample/s is adequate at that time range. you got 500MS/s 5000X more than it should be, what are you complaining?...
No. Unless you just look at sine waves, which is sort of boring.
At 100Ks/s any signal content above 50Khz will get aliased down, which will result in various degrees of garbage on the screen, even if you dont ever want to zoom into your signal (in case of some burst data you will want to) you need long enough memory to keep the sample rate high enough to fulfill nyquist.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1986 on: January 22, 2016, 06:05:18 pm »
which will result in various degrees of garbage on the screen
exactly like what you get on rigol screen with large enough time/div and large enough frequency content exist in the signal in peak acquisition mode... a fat thick yellow (CH1) trace..

you need long enough memory to keep the sample rate high enough to fulfill nyquist.
no need long enough memory, just how much screen horizontal pixels count is all it needs, excess memory maybe used for color graded super impose, or zoom or time shift or what not. you may calculate time span on the screen divided by pixel count, thats your nyquist requirement, times 2 if you want more peace of mind. the simplest... with 800 pixels @ 12ms span, you only need 66.66666666666666666667 KSamples/s to fill the whole screen of 800 memory, lets make it 133KS/s for peace of mind. do not interpolate like china rigol's sinx did, just vector point to point straight line connect, to avoid false data, of course higher content will looks like garbage or lost in the scene due to aliasing, not much different if you sample at higher (even the famous 1GS/s) rate (peak acquisition)...

last edit: as i said earlier, if you want full 1GS/s @ 24MSamples, you can, rigol doesnt prohibit you this, just set it in acquire menu and 500uV/div, then you have a good sample for 24ms... the exact answer to the why not 1GS/s @ 1mV/div lies in the rigol designer's lap.. fwiw..
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 06:21:26 pm by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline v81

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1987 on: January 29, 2016, 04:18:53 am »
Have been out of the loop for a while, i wonder if anyone con confirm weather or not a firmware update will cause any issues with the scope features being unlocked.
Also are there any known issues with the current stable firmware?

I have tested and can confirm i get the lockup bug described in this post.

Other question i have is per the attached pic, how do i properly remove the stats?
If i use the delete option in the menu, and then add a stat again the deleted ones re-appear in a greyed state taking up screen space.
 

Offline cs.dk

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1988 on: January 29, 2016, 04:30:47 am »
The firmware does not edit/remove your unlocked options.

For the stats, thats a bug. You need to delete the items, and reboot to make them dissepear |O
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1989 on: January 29, 2016, 06:22:43 am »
Have been out of the loop for a while, i wonder if anyone con confirm weather or not a firmware update will cause any issues with the scope features being unlocked.
Also are there any known issues with the current stable firmware?

I have tested and can confirm i get the lockup bug described in this post.

Other question i have is per the attached pic, how do i properly remove the stats?
If i use the delete option in the menu, and then add a stat again the deleted ones re-appear in a greyed state taking up screen space.

Note that you have Boot Version 0.0.1.2. This is why you have the "Freeze" lockup bug. The later scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.3 do not seem to have this particular bug. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any way to update the Boot Version. Updating the "firmware" only changes what the scope calls "software" version, but does not change the Boot Version.

Updating the firmware does not affect the Options or the ability to unlock them. But what happens if you accidentally brick the scope during an update?  I recommend uninstalling the Options before updating firmware, then re-installing them once you know the scope is working after the update. Just in case something happens, like a power fault or the cat knocks over the scope or something during the update process and the scope bricks.

Yes, the latest firmware GEL version 00.04.03.02.03, identified by the scope as 00.04.03.SP2,  does fix some things that annoyed me, but will not fix your lockup bug (since you have Boot Version 0.0.1.2 and this will not change.) But it also introduces a couple of other things that are annoying. For example, the new firmware installs Pulse and Edge counters in the Horizontal measurements menus... but when the measurements are displayed, it says "Pluses" rather than "Pulses". A silly but very annoying typo. Also, most users have noticed that the new firmware makes the scope respond more slowly to some controls, like the vertical positioning controls etc.
 
Perhaps the most annoying thing that the new firmware does is the "Measurements Fail" bug when a Math trace is in use. After a random time, the measurements simply stop working! All of them, not just the ones you may have selected on screen. And the only way to get them working again is to restart the scope by power-cycling it. I've made a few videos showing this behaviour:



I reported this bug to Rigol USA and the technicians there were immediately able to reproduce it on their test scopes... and I think it got their attention.

Since it is impossible (as far as I know) to roll back to earlier firmware once a later one is installed, you may want to think carefully about installing the current firmware if these things would be a problem for you.

The math trace horizontal error at 500 ns/div is not fixed by the latest firmware either.


If you go to the Measure menu, second page, and select "Font Size" and select Large or Extra Large, you can then Select Item, which will then let you choose which of the 5 current measurements to display. (Large font allows 3, Extra Large allows 2, of the 5 possible ones.) This is only a partial solution for the "greyed out inactive measurements taking up space" feature (not a bug) but it's better than nothing.


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline v81

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1990 on: January 30, 2016, 04:30:30 am »
If you go to the Measure menu, second page, and select "Font Size" and select Large or Extra Large, you can then Select Item, which will then let you choose which of the 5 current measurements to display. (Large font allows 3, Extra Large allows 2, of the 5 possible ones.) This is only a partial solution for the "greyed out inactive measurements taking up space" feature (not a bug) but it's better than nothing.

Appreciate your great reply.
Regarding the inactive measurements, surely this is has to be a bug or an oversight of some type?
If not, and it is intended, what happens when i have some measurements (say 5 of them) and then want to remove some and replace them with different measurements?
Only answer I've seen is to re-boot?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1991 on: January 30, 2016, 07:12:42 am »
Well, if you have "normal" font size displayed, the scope displays the last 5 measurements you selected. So you can "push out" unwanted measurements by selecting more measurements.

Say you have

Rise time   Fall time   Vp-p   +Duty    Vrms   

displayed and you want to replace Vp-p with some other measurement, like Vavg.

So you press  Vavg and this pushes rise time off the screen to the left. Then you press Rise time and this pushes Fall time off the screen to the left.
Then you press Fall time and this pushes Vp-p off the screen to the left.

So now you have

+Duty   Vrms   Vavg   Rise time   Fall time

displayed.


I agree, this "greyed out" but still present measurements thing is a "feature" that nobody wants and seems pretty silly. It's not a "bug" though because it is doing what it is designed to do. 
When you use the "Delete" Item button the item should disappear completely and leave that slot open for another measurement if the user desires. So you should be able simply to press "Item 3 - Delete" and it should disappear from the screen leaving that slot open, and then when you select another item it should appear in the third slot. Why the designers didn't choose to do it this way is a real mystery.
 
But then.... "Pluses".   :-DD


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline ankerwolf

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1992 on: January 30, 2016, 08:33:20 am »
Hello,
! It's a Feature, not a Bug !
You can use in the 3rd Level of the Measure Menue: "Sel.Item"
You will see there 5 Items and you can check or not. So they will appear.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1993 on: January 30, 2016, 09:01:10 am »
Sure! Now try to add another new measurement and watch what happens !

 |O
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline tsaG

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1994 on: February 11, 2016, 08:21:47 am »
Hi, quick question. Is it possible to decode CAN with the ds1054z?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1995 on: February 11, 2016, 08:25:06 am »
Hi, quick question. Is it possible to decode CAN with the ds1054z?

You can (no pun intended) but only if you have the option (or you "unlocked" your scope) and for what I hear you can only decode what is on the scope screen, you can't decode from memory even if the scope can capture quite a bit of data. But I have not done it myself, so this is hear say.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1996 on: February 11, 2016, 08:41:38 am »
Hi, quick question. Is it possible to decode CAN with the ds1054z?

You can (no pun intended) but only if you have the option (or you "unlocked" your scope) and for what I hear you can only decode what is on the scope screen, you can't decode from memory even if the scope can capture quite a bit of data. But I have not done it myself, so this is hear say.

It only decodes what's visible on screen.

(At least I think that's what it does... how would I know? If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?  :popcorn:)
 

Offline Karel

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1997 on: February 11, 2016, 08:43:10 am »
Hi, quick question. Is it possible to decode CAN with the ds1054z?

No, it's not possible.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1998 on: February 11, 2016, 08:50:47 am »
Hi, quick question. Is it possible to decode CAN with the ds1054z?

No, it's not possible.

Ooops, you are right, I keep on thinking that the DS1000z has about the same capabilities as the DS2000 that I have, but looking at the programming manual it doesn't include CAN decoding

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0386/1/-/-/-/-/DS1000Z_Programming%20Guide_EN.pdf

Sorry, my bad for assuming.

Edit: apparently it can only decode the following (if you have the options installed):
Parallel (standard for MSO1000z)
RS232 (optional)
I2C (optional)
SPI (optional)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:54:48 am by miguelvp »
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #1999 on: February 13, 2016, 06:25:42 pm »
Total long shot here. I think it is safe to assume the DS1054Z has some sort of recovery mode in the bootloader to recover from a failed flash. While the regular firmware update process does not allow version downgrades a bootloader recovery flash might allow it.
Has anyone tried to copy the firmware update process used by the DG1022 as discussed here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1022-how-to-update-the-firmware/
VE7FM
 


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