Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1605921 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ProBang2

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 300
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2175 on: May 11, 2016, 04:48:52 pm »

You have a scope with the "old"  Boot Version 0.0.1.2, but you have it switched on only 10 times?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2176 on: May 11, 2016, 04:59:02 pm »
OK... try this. You'll have to unzip it because I can't upload a .stp file directly to the forum. If your scope _does_ freeze you can get it unfrozen by using the "5th grey button on left while booting" procedure to get it back to factory defaults, and the scope will come up in Chinese....

Nope, can't reproduce  :-//
Loaded your setup file, tried with 1,2,3 and 4 channels, with and without signal applied.
Repeated every single step in your video starting from minute 1:20 and also followed your 5 points instructions
and abused Horizontal knob with and without zoom on...but no freeze here.

Attached my scope infos for reference.

Well, good, thanks for trying. So you apparently don't have whatever hardware or other condition combines with the Boot Version 0.0.1.2 that produces the Freeze Bug.
It's not the new firmware that cures it, either, because when I had both scopes (0.0.1.2 and 0.0.1.3) side-by-side I installed the SP2 firmware in the old scope and it still froze when conditions were met. 

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2177 on: May 11, 2016, 05:01:35 pm »

You have a scope with the "old"  Boot Version 0.0.1.2, but you have it switched on only 10 times?

It could be that the scope isn't counting correctly. I've seen that happen on my "new" scope with Boot Version 0.0.1.3 as well.

With over 3 days of total runtime ... if that's even correct ... one would think the scope would have been started more than 10 times...
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Arlo1

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2178 on: May 12, 2016, 06:05:22 am »
Got a DS1054Z Monday and Hacked it right away.   

I take it 5ns is the smallest time scale?  Even with the 1104Z? 

All features show enabled and the system info says 1104Z   but with my 1052 it would go down to 2ns after the hack.
 

Online borjam

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
  • Country: es
  • EA2EKH
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2179 on: May 12, 2016, 06:56:44 am »
I take it 5ns is the smallest time scale?  Even with the 1104Z? 
Hacked 1074Z, 5 ns as well.

And according to the specs, the 1104Z begins at 5 ns as well.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 07:07:16 am by borjam »
 

Offline Gabri74

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Country: it
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2180 on: May 12, 2016, 07:32:25 am »

You have a scope with the "old"  Boot Version 0.0.1.2, but you have it switched on only 10 times?

Defenitedly powered up more than 10 times  :)
I don't know why the power up counter says otherwise   :-//
 

Offline Gabri74

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Country: it
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2181 on: May 12, 2016, 07:35:04 am »
Well, good, thanks for trying.

Thank you for all the effort you are putting trying to solve bugs and improve this
scope software
 :-+   :-+
 

Offline ProBang2

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 300
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2182 on: May 12, 2016, 12:02:18 pm »
Status right now (Boot Version 0.0.1.4):

Confirmed:

- RMS Voltage readings on not connected (even ground-coupled) inputs.
- Measurement Freeze Bug. Stats frozen (after roughly 15 Minutes. See screenshot below.)
- "Pluses"-Error. The typo and also the counting error.

Not confirmed:

- Offset error at 500ns/div in average acquire mode with 2-channel Math function. (See screenshot below. Nothing obvious or flashy.)

BTW: My board (version 0.1.1) is back!  :clap:
It was on a short vacation, perhaps.

Should I do more tests?
Under which conditions (signals, settings, functions...)?



(Sorry for the heavy ringing on the square wave. I have to visit my preferred dealer immediatly! There is a need for some more stuff...)

After the Stats are frozen the scope is full responsive.
Exception: The Stats can not be activated again. (See below.)




« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:21:05 pm by ProBang2 »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2183 on: May 12, 2016, 01:21:03 pm »
@ProBang2: Thanks for trying those tests!  When the Measurements stop working, I think it's not just the "Stats" but all Measurements no longer work.

I set my system up to the same parameters as your shots, and I didn't get the Math horizontal error either ! Did you fix my scope by remote control?   :wtf: 
See the first screenshot below.

Then I remembered that I needed to have another channel turned on for the Math error to show up .... See the second screenshot below.    :P

(I have found that "Stopping" the scope makes screensaves go much faster, usually.)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 01:23:41 pm by alsetalokin4017 »
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline ProBang2

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 300
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2184 on: May 12, 2016, 02:04:25 pm »
Vertical offset error now confirmed... (Yeah, it would have been too nice...)
Immediatly when the third channel is on.
BTW: It runs with this settings (and two channels) happily since over one hour. Strange...
(And, just for fun, count the pulses.)

Update: Stats frozen at "Cnt: 11k884" after 1h 12min.
The measurement buttons at the left side of the screen are responsive, but the measurements are not working. Confirmation again.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 02:27:29 pm by ProBang2 »
 

Online rstofer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7683
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2185 on: May 12, 2016, 03:27:38 pm »
Doesn't Rigol or there distributors give refunds?   With all these reported problems, I would expect the users to have returned the scope for credit and used the funds to buy something else.  See?  No more problems!

Digital scopes are software, software is always trash, you would think people would be used to it by now.  The Measurements screen I don't have on my Tek 465 has never frozen.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2186 on: May 12, 2016, 03:43:04 pm »
@ProBang2:
Thanks for testing! Now I know I'm not totally crazy... yet.  In my experience the Measurements can fail at random times, I've seen them fail as early as 700 counts or even fewer. So I've developed the habit of setting up Math but leaving it off, and turning Math on only when I really need to see what it's doing, as the Measurement failure only seems to happen when Math is on.

@rstofer:
Hey... it's still the "best bang for the buck", 400 dollars (or the equivalent in Euros) won't buy much of anything else... although the new GWInstek scopes are looking really nice....

Digital scopes are software, that's true enough, but at least this one doesn't run on top of a _Windows_ OS like the last LeCroy I used........   :palm:
(But it's nice to be able to surf the web and watch YouTube videos on your oscilloscope......  :clap:  )


So anyway, there are workarounds for most of these Rigol bugs, and the more we publish and talk about the bugs, the more incentive Rigol has to fix them in future firmware updates (I hope)...   :rant:
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline ProBang2

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 300
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2187 on: May 12, 2016, 04:03:36 pm »

@ProBang2:
Thanks for testing! Now I know I'm not totally crazy... yet.

You are welcome. I am happy if I could help you.
Have we missed a bug?
 

Offline metrologist

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1842
  • Country: 00
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2188 on: May 12, 2016, 04:14:04 pm »
Has anyone considered creating a Rigol DS1000Z bug thread, for confirmed issues? I keep thinking about this scope and end up getting distracted.

Someone mentioned 5ns/ is the lowest resolution time setting. I'm confused, if this is a 100MHz scope, and the 1052 goes down to 2ns? What would be the point?
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2189 on: May 12, 2016, 04:22:58 pm »
Has anyone considered creating a Rigol DS1000Z bug thread, for confirmed issues? I keep thinking about this scope and end up getting distracted.

Something like this, maybe?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-%28ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models%29-bugswish-list/
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2190 on: May 12, 2016, 04:51:00 pm »
Has anyone considered creating a Rigol DS1000Z bug thread, for confirmed issues? I keep thinking about this scope and end up getting distracted.

Something like this, maybe?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-%28ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models%29-bugswish-list/

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. That's an old thread though and the list in the first page isn't being updated, as far as I can tell.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline metrologist

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1842
  • Country: 00
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2191 on: May 12, 2016, 04:59:28 pm »
yep, something like that, and reply #257 sort of ends the thread:

"so you see most bugs reported here are fixed, or at least i've not experience them so far..."

Some of what I've read seem to be related to obscure settings. Other's I'm not sure about, mostly because I do not have the scope or anything similar that I can experiment with.

But I'll keep reading.

Thanks.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1988
  • Country: us
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2192 on: May 12, 2016, 05:04:48 pm »
Has anyone considered creating a Rigol DS1000Z bug thread, for confirmed issues? I keep thinking about this scope and end up getting distracted.

Someone mentioned 5ns/ is the lowest resolution time setting. I'm confused, if this is a 100MHz scope, and the 1052 goes down to 2ns? What would be the point?

5 ns/div is the fastest setting available, whether "virgin" 50 MHz or "unlocked" 100MHz. But somebody has pointed out that even this may not be a "real" setting but is actually a digital zoom of the 10 ns/div timebase screen data.  I don't know how to test or confirm this though.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11452
  • Country: 00
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2193 on: May 13, 2016, 11:08:42 am »
Doesn't Rigol or there distributors give refunds?   With all these reported problems, I would expect the users to have returned the scope for credit and used the funds to buy something else.  See?  No more problems!

You have a better option for $400?

(and no, a 20-year old green-screen Tek that occupies a whole table by itself isn't an option)

 

Online JPortici

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2690
  • Country: it
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2194 on: May 13, 2016, 11:20:24 am »
(but i like that 40 year old tek that's actually deeper than my workbench  ;D ;D )

I'd say a 2 channel GWi but those in the price range don't have protocol trigger/decoding

though you *can* find lecroy 9300 for that price range, even recalibrated sometimes
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:22:15 am by JPortici »
 

Online borjam

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
  • Country: es
  • EA2EKH
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2195 on: May 13, 2016, 11:23:03 am »
(and no, a 20-year old green-screen Tek that occupies a whole table by itself isn't an option)
If you don't need the protocol decoding, there are old Lecroys that are really capable: the LC and LT series  :box:

 

Offline sync

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 799
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2196 on: May 13, 2016, 11:45:11 am »
Someone mentioned 5ns/ is the lowest resolution time setting. I'm confused, if this is a 100MHz scope, and the 1052 goes down to 2ns? What would be the point?
The 1000Z have 50 pixels/div horizontally where as the 1000E only has 25.
Vertically both have 25 pixels/div effectively because the 1000z uses pixel doubling.

But somebody has pointed out that even this may not be a "real" setting but is actually a digital zoom of the 10 ns/div timebase screen data.
No, that's not true. But keep in mind that at 5ns/div there are only 5 samples per div. So one sample per 10 pixels.
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3686
  • Country: de
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2197 on: May 13, 2016, 11:54:54 am »
5 ns/div is the fastest setting available, whether "virgin" 50 MHz or "unlocked" 100MHz. But somebody has pointed out that even this may not be a "real" setting but is actually a digital zoom of the 10 ns/div timebase screen data.  I don't know how to test or confirm this though.

I can't see how there could be such a thing as a "non-real", zoomed timebase setting. The scope samples at 1 Gsample/s (in single channel mode), and will display these samples (or an interpolation, in line display mode) on the time scale setting you select. If you switch the display to dot mode, you should directly see the 5 dots per division.
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11452
  • Country: 00
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2198 on: May 13, 2016, 12:03:41 pm »
Has anyone considered creating a Rigol DS1000Z bug thread, for confirmed issues? I keep thinking about this scope and end up getting distracted.

It won't work. The obsessives have shown they can turn any thread that mentions a DS1054Z into a "DS1054Z bugs" thread. It's like they're on a mission or something, even though (a) The bugs are minor in practice, and (b) Other oscilloscopes have bugs too (even old Teks which have a fraction of the features of a DS1054Z).

Someone mentioned 5ns/ is the lowest resolution time setting. I'm confused, if this is a 100MHz scope, and the 1052 goes down to 2ns? What would be the point?
Signals on oscilloscopes aren't usually shown by connecting the dots, they're reconstructed using interpolation functions (eg. sin(x)/x ). Theoretically you can go much smaller than the data sample rate and still see useful information.

Watch these two videos if you haven't already: https://xiph.org/video/
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11452
  • Country: 00
Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #2199 on: May 13, 2016, 12:19:45 pm »
Some of what I've read seem to be related to obscure settings.

Yes. Some of them seem to be obscure batches of hardware that most people will never own.

Other's I'm not sure about, mostly because I do not have the scope or anything similar that I can experiment with.

The DS1054Z is a very useful device at an unbelievable price. You're not doing yourself any favors by reading these "bug" threads. You have to work hard to get most of the bugs to appear. Some people take several attempts to get the settings just right (see previous page). In normal use you'll never see them (insert somebody saying "those settings are normal for me")

If a function is really, really important to you then make sure it's not on the list.

Otherwise ... just get one. You certainly won't regret it.

(and the next firmware update might even fix the few remaining bugs being debated here)
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf