Author Topic: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope  (Read 1457934 times)

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Offline netdudeuk

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2014, 10:20:37 pm »
Which process did you use to get the options ?
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2014, 10:26:46 pm »
You'll overlook a decent 4-channel DSO for $400 just because you can't hack the bandwith to get a tiny, hard to measure improvement? 

 :palm:

But yes, at even 50MHz, this is a good buy.

I already have a scope and spending money to replace it requires that certain threshold of improvement is achieved. There are many benefits to the DS1054Z but going backwards in bandwidth goes against the grain a bit. Personal bias? YES! It is my money and I have my criteria for making an upgrade.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2014, 10:31:36 pm »
Which process did you use to get the options ?
The riglol keygen, as documented in various threads.
 

Offline netdudeuk

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2014, 10:34:53 pm »
Did you need to connect to the JTAG interface first though ?

 

Offline rolycat

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2014, 10:36:07 pm »
Did you need to connect to the JTAG interface first though ?
Nope
 

Offline LeoUCDavis

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2014, 11:25:29 pm »
Is there a code for getting the eev discount?

uh, it was?? I have an edu email, and I applied the eevblog discount and the website accepted it??
 

Offline alank2

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2014, 11:41:42 pm »
I sent you a pm with it
 

Offline DanielS

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2014, 03:11:26 am »
But yes, at even 50MHz, this is a good buy.
For someone who really needs waveform accuracy though, the DS1000Z platform starts coming apart at the seams if you need quad-channel capability beyond 25MHz.

I plan to use my DS1054Z mostly for power-related measurements and those usually call for a 20MHz bandwidth limit anyway. Pretty much as close to a perfect fit for what I need it for as it gets.

I already have a scope and spending money to replace it requires that certain threshold of improvement is achieved. There are many benefits to the DS1054Z but going backwards in bandwidth goes against the grain a bit. Personal bias? YES! It is my money and I have my criteria for making an upgrade.
This is a bit like a mechanics' toolbox where you may find 10 slightly different versions of a 12mm wrench (angled, straight, knuckle-length, standard length, box, open, pipe, etc.) or socket (wobble, short, medium, long, thin-wall, impact, 1/4", 5/8", 1/2", 3/4" drive, etc.)  They are all fundamentally the same tool but mechanics hoard multiple variants because in some circumstances, having the tool that fits exactly right can spare them tons of trouble.

Instead of looking at it as a replacement, you might want to look at it as a complement to cover areas where your current one is deficient. Ex.: you are debugging stuff on a board and suspect it might be power-related but you need your good scope to chase high-frequency stuff. If you had a DS1054Z, you could set it up to monitor the power rails and leave your main scope's channels free for whatever else you need to do.
 

Offline cdstriker

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2014, 07:09:13 am »
Any chance someone would be willing to give me the EEVblog discount code for TEquipment?
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2014, 07:25:44 am »
Any chance someone would be willing to give me the EEVblog discount code for TEquipment?
PM sent.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2014, 07:37:00 am »
I already have a scope and spending money to replace it requires that certain threshold of improvement is achieved. There are many benefits to the DS1054Z but going backwards in bandwidth goes against the grain a bit. Personal bias? YES! It is my money and I have my criteria for making an upgrade.
Seems reasonable actually (any market), but especially with what things tend to cost in Brazil. Shipping alone can ruin a good value otherwise.  :(

Bandwidth aside, is there anything you're lacking with your existing scope that a newer budget DSO could provide (i.e. existing scope is analog, so some DSO features might be nice to have)?
 

Offline Ivan7enych

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2014, 09:22:49 am »
Any chance someone would be willing to give me the EEVblog discount code for TEquipment?
I simply open chat on TEquipment site, and tell them "I'm a member of a eevblog, can I get a discount?". And I've got this discount in 5min. I used that method twice.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2014, 09:37:26 am »
For someone who really needs waveform accuracy though, the DS1000Z platform starts coming apart at the seams if you need quad-channel capability beyond 25MHz.

Oh course it does, it's one of the cheapest scopes on the market! only US$399.
Off hand I can't think of another scope that even comes close in bang-per-buck for the same price?

Of course, if you want to get pedantic, at 250MSs with all 4 channels on, that gives you 5 times the max 50MHz bandwidth. In theory you only need about 2.4 times the sample rate if you have sin x/x interpolation, giving just over 100MHz bandwidth before it becomes an issue over and above the base bandwidth. So more than enough in the case of 50MHz here.
Many people don't feel comfortable with this mathematical concept though.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2014, 09:38:45 am »
A sample 1054Z is on it's way to me end of next week.
And I should have my own unit some time after that.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2014, 09:59:48 am »
In theory you only need about 2.4 times the sample rate if you have sin x/x interpolation

Is that why they don't let you turn it on when you're only using one or two channels?   ;)

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2014, 10:06:38 am »
Is that why they don't let you turn it on when you're only using one or two channels?   ;)

They do that?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2014, 10:09:43 am »
For someone who really needs waveform accuracy though, the DS1000Z platform starts coming apart at the seams if you need quad-channel capability beyond 25MHz.

Oh course it does, it's one of the cheapest scopes on the market!

 :-DD I guess we're not thinking from a marketer's viewpoint...

Imagine if it didn't come apart at the seams, the entire ecosystem would collapse!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2014, 10:10:28 am »
Is that why they don't let you turn it on when you're only using one or two channels?   ;)

They do that?

Yes.

Edit: No it doesn't, it just prevents manual control of the setting. Appears to be always "ON".
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 04:51:41 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2014, 10:16:49 am »
Of course, if you want to get pedantic, at 250MSs with all 4 channels on, that gives you 5 times the max 50MHz bandwidth. In theory you only need about 2.4 times the sample rate if you have sin x/x interpolation...

This theory only holds true when you have an analog input signal that has no frequency content above the Nyquist frequency - in this case, 125MHz. This would require that the DSO have a frequency response which attenuated signals > 125MHz at -60dB to avoid aliasing. This is not true for the DS1000Z series - and the very reason that most DSOs have sampling rates 10 or more times higher than their highest bandwidth. Said differently, the frequency response of the oscilloscope does not roll-off infinitely fast and some buffer room is needed on the sampling rate to minimize aliasing.

Why does the DS1000Z have a switch to turn on and off sin(x)/x? Because it should be switched off when running 3 or 4 channels - and sometimes the 20MHz BW limiter switched on as well.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 10:31:07 am by marmad »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2014, 10:19:42 am »
Why does the DS1000Z have a switch to turn on and off sin(x)/x? Because it should be switched off when running 3 or 4 channels

Weird. Mine only lets me switch it on when running 3 or 4 channels.

Edit: No it doesn't, it just prevents user control of the setting with one or two channels.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 04:52:22 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2014, 10:24:38 am »
Weird. Mine only lets me switch it on when running 3 or 4 channels.

That is either a bug - or working the opposite of what it's actually displaying. It makes no sense that way.

On the DS2000, sin(x)/x is ON automatically when sampling at 1 or 2GSa/s - and automatically switched OFF (linear interpolation) when sampling at < 500MSa/s.

EDIT: Perhaps it's also ON automatically sometimes? Like when using just 1 or 2 channels with a high sample rate? I'm guessing with 1/2 channels, it functions as a DS2000.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 11:57:13 am by marmad »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2014, 10:31:21 am »
That is either a bug - or working the opposite of what it's actually displaying. It makes no sense that way.

From the user manual:

Quote
Sin(x)/x
Press Sin(x)/x to enable or disable the dynamic sine interpolation function which can acquire better restoration of the original waveform.

Note: If the number of channels currently turned on is less than three, Sin(x)/x is grayed out and disabled.

To me that sounds like it's by design, not a bug.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2014, 10:35:51 am »
From the user manual:

Quote
Sin(x)/x
Press Sin(x)/x to enable or disable the dynamic sine interpolation function which can acquire better restoration of the original waveform.

Note: If the number of channels currently turned on is less than three, Sin(x)/x is grayed out and disabled.

To me that sounds like it's by design, not a bug.

As I mentioned above in my EDIT, it may be that automatic selection of sin(x)/linear works the same as the DS2000 when running 1 or 2 channels - giving you manual selection ONLY when you have 3 or 4 channels enabled.

In any case, I can assure you that Rigol engineers have not figured out a way to beat the Nyquist theorem or limits of sin(x)/x interpolation.  ;)
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2014, 10:37:36 am »
That is either a bug - or working the opposite of what it's actually displaying. It makes no sense that way.

From the user manual:

Quote
Sin(x)/x
Press Sin(x)/x to enable or disable the dynamic sine interpolation function which can acquire better restoration of the original waveform.

Note: If the number of channels currently turned on is less than three, Sin(x)/x is grayed out and disabled.

To me that sounds like it's by design, not a bug.

I think the phrasing in the manual is misleading here.

On my scope, the Sin(x)/x key is indeed greyed out if less than three channels are turned on, but the text reads "ON". It can only be turned off when three or four channels are in use.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2014, 10:39:27 am »
As I mentioned above in my EDIT, it may be that automatic selection of sin(x)/linear works the same as the DS2000 when running 1 or 2 channels - giving you manual selection ONLY when you have 3 or 4 channels enabled.

I dunno. I'll leave that to Dave in his review/test...

 


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