New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[MarkF]

@hcet14 firmware updates DO NOT effect any bandwidth or option(s) hacked or otherwise.

I have been upgrading to newer firmware for the last 10 years without any issues.
Including the newest 00.04.05.02.08 version.  My bandwidth and all options hacked.

I have not heard of any issues but I only get my firmware from
the Rigol North America site just to be safe.

Be sure the scope is warmed up and do a calibration cycle after upgrading and power restart.

[hcet14]

@MarkF Thanks a bunch. Looks good. Thank you.

[rbak]

I did not use my Rigol DS1054Z for quite a while and decided to upgrade my scope to the most up to date version 00.04.05.02.08. The upgrade and the required calibration completed successfully. However I noticed that the vertical menu still seems to have the issue with the naming of the options.



The option "Variance" seems to incorrectly renamed to "AC.Vrms" and the new "AC.Vrms" option is showing as "3". At the bottom of the screen you see the same , "Variance" is shown as "A.Vrms=" and "AC.Vrms" is showing as "Period=".

Does anyone know whether this issue has already been reported to Rigol? Seems this is only a naming issue so I would expect this to be a very simple fix.

[RoGeorge]

Can't say about the latest version, I've stopped updating at some point.  My DS1054Z is from the first generation, fabricated during 2015 or so.  Current firmware version I have now is 00.04.05.02.02, which doesn't have that icon named "3".

My understanding is that the last few versions were to fix bugs related to the newer hardware versions of DS1000z (so not affecting older models).  If you want to know the exact firmware changes, there is a text file packed together with the firmware, where all changes from one version of firmware to the other are listed.

Once you decide which version you want, it is possible to downgrade to whatever version you wish, if you use this disk I've attached at the end of this post (instead of using an empty USB pen-drive):  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg3613778/#msg3613778

[rbak]

My DS1054Z is also one of the first generation. I have of of course read the release notes but to be honest the description of the newer firmware releases is extremely poor. It basically does not provide much detail of what fixes it contains. Not sure whether it would be needed to downgrade but it of course does annoy me a bit already haha.

When I insert the USB disk with my previous firmware version it does not seem to stop me to downgrade. It does provide me a warning but not sure whether that is just to say that it is not logical to "upgrade" to an older version or whether there is indeed a risk of bricking my scope when I would attempt to downgrade (what I want to prevent at all times!)



Would be happy to downgrade to the latest stable version without this icon named "3" as long as it is fully safe to do so. But ideally Rigol should be able to provide a simple fix for this. Just do not know exactly how to raise this with them.

[beatman]

My DS1054Z is also one of the first generation. I have of of course read the release notes but to be honest the description of the newer firmware releases is extremely poor. It basically does not provide much detail of what fixes it contains. Not sure whether it would be needed to downgrade but it of course does annoy me a bit already haha.

When I insert the USB disk with my previous firmware version it does not seem to stop me to downgrade. It does provide me a warning but not sure whether that is just to say that it is not logical to "upgrade" to an older version or whether there is indeed a risk of bricking my scope when I would attempt to downgrade (what I want to prevent at all times!)

(Attachment Link)

Would be happy to downgrade to the latest stable version without this icon named "3" as long as it is fully safe to do so. But ideally Rigol should be able to provide a simple fix for this. Just do not know exactly how to raise this with them.

I have the version 00.04.05.02.04 firmware 0.2.3.12 and show the same icons like yours

[RoGeorge]

When I insert the USB disk with my previous firmware version it does not seem to stop me to downgrade. It does provide me a warning but not sure whether that is just to say that it is not logical to "upgrade" to an older version or whether there is indeed a risk of bricking my scope when I would attempt to downgrade (what I want to prevent at all times!)

In the past FW versions it was not possible at all to downgrade.  I am not aware of any danger of bricking the oscilloscope by a firmware downgrade.  If that firmware allows you to downgrade, then I don't think you will need that special Rigol disk I've linked before.

I would downgrade without any fear, but I didn't try the FW versions you have.

About procuring the FW, I would try downloading them directly from Rigol (for DS1000Z series).  Don't know if I still have the .zip for the version that is currently loaded in my scope.  Many times the FW zip files were also attached in various messages in this thread, or in other similar threads about updating DS1000Z.

Try searching with the local forum search, in this thread only, but you better download the .zip from the Rigol support websites.

[rbak]

In the past FW versions it was not possible at all to downgrade.  I am not aware of any danger of bricking the oscilloscope by a firmware downgrade.  If that firmware allows you to downgrade, then I don't think you will need that special Rigol disk I've linked before.

I would downgrade without any fear, but I didn't try the FW versions you have.

About procuring the FW, I would try downloading them directly from Rigol (for DS1000Z series).  Don't know if I still have the .zip for the version that is currently loaded in my scope.  Many times the FW zip files were also attached in various messages in this thread, or in other similar threads about updating DS1000Z.

Try searching with the local forum search, in this thread only, but you better download the .zip from the Rigol support websites.

As can be seen in the screenshot the software does allow me to update to a lower software version but I am a bit reluctant to do so due to the fact it mentions a "Caution" and I am not sure whether that is due to the fact that you typically don't update to a lower version of the software and it is just that or that there is indeed a certain risk involved when updating to a lower version software. I do not want to brick it of course!

I used the official Rigol website to download the latest software version 00.04.05.02.08 for tje DS1000Z but the site does not provide any previous versions of the software. As you did not seem to have the issue with the incorrectly names icons with software version 00.04.05.02.02 I thought it might be a good idea to look for that software version. Unfortunately I cannot find it on the forum or anywhere else. 

[bte]

I used the official Rigol website to download the latest software version 00.04.05.02.08 for tje DS1000Z but the site does not provide any previous versions of the software. As you did not seem to have the issue with the incorrectly names icons with software version 00.04.05.02.02 I thought it might be a good idea to look for that software version. Unfortunately I cannot find it on the forum or anywhere else.

I found the update file in my archives and attached to this post.

[rbak]

I have gained my courage and tried to update from version v00.04.05.02.09 to the older versions. I have tried both versions v00.04.04.04.03 and v00.04.05.02.02 and unfortunately both failed (not bricking my scope).

   



Not sure why it fails as the description is not very clear. The files themselves are fine and so is the drive, as updating with the same version works fine (but serves no purpose).

   

[RoGeorge]

That was expected, downgrade doesn't work by default.

If you want to downgrade, you'll have to use that disk linked before.  That disk contains a Rigol signature hidden with the partition table.  It will allow to load (downgrade to) any version, and it will also unlock a few service menus (only when the Rigol special disk is plugged, but don't mess with those service menus).

Prepare an USB pen-drive with the .zip disk image in that link, then copy on it the FW version you want to put into your oscilloscope.  Follow the instructions at the end of that link, and it will downgrade.

I've went back and forth between versions a few times back then, and it didn't brick my scope, and It didn't lost the unlocked features.  It may reset however the hours-on/power-on counters.  In different FW versions these counters are at different addresses, so write those down on a piece of paper if you need them.

[rbak]

That was expected, downgrade doesn't work by default.

If you want to downgrade, you'll have to use that disk linked before.  That disk contains a Rigol signature hidden with the partition table.  It will allow to load (downgrade to) any version, and it will also unlock a few service menus (only when the Rigol special disk is plugged, but don't mess with those service menus).

Prepare an USB pen-drive with the .zip disk image in that link, then copy on it the FW version you want to put into your oscilloscope.  Follow the instructions at the end of that link, and it will downgrade.

I've went back and forth between versions a few times back then, and it didn't brick my scope, and It didn't lost the unlocked features.  It may reset however the hours-on/power-on counters.  In different FW versions these counters are at different addresses, so write those down on a piece of paper if you need them.

I understand but I do not currently have any linux devices at hand to flash the image to my USB stick hence why I tried the other method first. I got the idea that the option to upgrade to a lower version was only offered when using the "Rigol_sign_disk" and since I got the message as well not using the disk I tested that first.

I am just a bit reluctant as I do not know how safe it is and for sure I do not want to risk bricking my scope. I understand you tested this but have you validated this in combination with the latest firmware version v00.04.05.02.08 and downgrade it to for instance version v00.04.05.02.02 or even older version v00.04.04.04.03?

I will flash the "Rigol_sign_disk" later and decide if and when I want to give it a try (need to gain some courage).

By the way I also reached out to Rigol as I think they need to be able resolve the issue with the naming of the icons in the most recent firmware version v00.04.05.02.08. It looks to me like an issue with the English language file or something similar. I assume that should be a simple fix for Rigol and the best way to resolve the actual issue.

[McBryce]

I have gained my courage and tried to update from version v00.04.05.02.09 to the older versions. I have tried both versions v00.04.04.04.03 and v00.04.05.02.02 and unfortunately both failed (not bricking my scope).

(Attachment Link)     (Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Not sure why it fails as the description is not very clear. The files themselves are fine and so is the drive, as updating with the same version works fine (but serves no purpose).

(Attachment Link)     (Attachment Link)

It didn't just fail, it was "failured"

McBryce.

[rbak]

OK I flashed the "Rigol_sign_disk" using "balenaEtcher" and took the plunge to downgrade from firmware version v00.04.05.02.08 to v00.04.05.02.02. All worked like a charm



At least now I got rid of those issues related to the incorrectly named icons in the vertical menu, including the wrong names when those vertical menu options are selected. It simply annoyed me to much to stick with the most recent firmware 

Now let´s see how RIGOL responds to my request to fix this. I assume the issue might not be existing in the Chinese version and thus passed their quality check. Assuming they have some kind of quality check in place. It might well be as simple as some missing phrases in a translation file. Fingers crossed it will be fixed soon. Biggest challenge is to get to the right department/person and pursue them to spend some time on this to fix it

[Datman]

Uhmm... Why do I only read this?...
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]
It doesn't work anymore... 

[MarkF]

Uhmm... Why do I only read this?...
(Attachment Link)

You need to enable the extended information:

Under the trigger knob quickly press the MENU > MENU > FORCE > MENU buttons.
Then go to the System Info page to see the extended system information.

The scope will revert to the normal info upon cycling power.

[Datman]

Thanks, MarkF!

I also have 00.04.05.02.08 and I see "3". If I push it, it appears Period=*****. If I apply a signal, it shows the period.

[rbak]

Thanks, MarkF!

I also have 00.04.05.02.08 and I see "3". If I push it, it appears Period=*****. If I apply a signal, it shows the period.

So you can perform the same as I did and downgrade to version v00.04.05.02.02, or wait until RIGOL fixes the issue with the icon names and the names in the information when the option is selected (or both , downgrade now and wait for the update and install the update later)

[Datman]

No, I wait... if in the meantime I don't buy a 12 bit Siglent SDS814X HD!
https://www.siglent.eu/product/13555727/siglent-sds814x-hd-4ch-100mhz-12bit-oscilloscope

[tautech]

No, I wait... if in the meantime I don't buy a 12 bit Siglent SDS814X HD!
https://www.siglent.eu/product/13555727/siglent-sds814x-hd-4ch-100mhz-12bit-oscilloscope

(Attachment Link)

SDS804X HD is best bang for buck, trust me on this. 

[gstorto]

Guys, I have a problem with the CH2 front-end.
I have soldered wires to it, measured the output of the differential amplifier, the output of the fet amplifier, the pins of the TLV274 with another oscilloscope.
The most striking difference is the DC bias of the signal going into the FET amplifier. For the same reference 0V/3V square wave, for CH1 (known good channel), the input of the FET amplifier goes from -2.74 to -3.14V. For CH2 (known bad channel), it goes from -1.86 to -2.26V.
I understand the TLV274 is responsible for the DC gain and the vertical position as shown below:

However, what is not shown on the schematic is the TLV274 has feedback from the FET amplifier output (through pin 2). So, I don't know if the DC bias is bad because of the TLV, or the feedback is causing this DC bias due to a faulty component elsewhere (like the components of the FET amplifier).
Is it a good idea to remove the resistor 4M7 that injects the output of the TLV274 to the input of the FET amplifier, to test the amplifiers alone?

[David Hess]

Do not rely on Dave's schematic too much because it has several errors.

Chances are that the input protection network, JFET, or DC restoring TLV274 is damaged causing excessive leakage current producing an offset voltage.

[gstorto]

Do not rely on Dave's schematic too much because it has several errors.

Chances are that the input protection network, JFET, or DC restoring TLV274 is damaged causing excessive leakage current producing an offset voltage.

Yes, I agree I need to be careful relying too much on the schematic.
I went ahead and desoldered the 4M7 resistor that connects the output (pin 1) of the TLV274 to the input of the JFET (JFET input amplifier). I did that for both CH1 (known good) and CH2 (known bad).
I am monitoring the output of the differential amplifier to the ADC.
If I inject DC into the channel input, I see the levels of the differential pair moving, how is this possible since I removed the TLV274 from the equation?
I measured the following:
CH1
0V input  -> 1.32 V output (differential)
-1V input -> 1.06 V output (differential)

CH2
0V input  -> 357 mV output (differential)
-1V input -> 251 mV output (differential)

How is this possible? I am truly lost.

[gstorto]

Another question, is this supposed to be a fixed voltage power rail?

I checked and the V+ is not shorted across channels.
Also, this is what I got.
CH1 (good ch) diff amp V+ with 1 kHz square wave:

CH2 (bad ch) diff amp V+ with 1 kHz square wave:

[David Hess]

Another question, is this supposed to be a fixed voltage power rail?

It might be, but it sets the common mode output voltage which has to be within range of the next stage.

I would ignore the differential amplifier stage until the input buffer is working.