| Products > Test Equipment |
| New Rigol DS7000 |
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| lukier:
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pm ---They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it. --- End quote --- This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread). On the other hand you have stuff like Keysight's E36300A PSUs, bad standby & fan control design, long wait for firmware update and potential recall as AFAIR CH1 overshoot is still there. Or R&S having if I remember correctly fixed firmware release cycle (every quarter?) because dunno "we use SCRUM so f,.. you". Things are not as they used to be. Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ). |
| hendorog:
--- Quote from: lukier on June 25, 2018, 09:17:14 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pm ---They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it. --- End quote --- This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread). On the other hand you have stuff like Keysight's E36300A PSUs, bad standby & fan control design, long wait for firmware update and potential recall as AFAIR CH1 overshoot is still there. Or R&S having if I remember correctly fixed firmware release cycle (every quarter?) because dunno "we use SCRUM so f,.. you". Things are not as they used to be. Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ). --- End quote --- I am sure that the part about not testing their firmware is not true. All companies test their hardware, firmware and software before release. However they all don't have the same capacity for testing and so don't find and fix all issues prior to release. Different companies also will have different tolerances for what they will release as well. E.g. Keysight might delay a release due to a spelling mistake in the UI, but maybe Siglent would go ahead and fix it later. The problem is that it is impossible to test every combination of every feature. You would be there for multiple lifetimes. Nobody can do complete testing, but some companies can do better than others. For example if a company invests in an automated test framework, and then invests in creating tests for that framework for every new feature, and then invests in maintaining those tests as the firmware changes, then they have an improved testing capability vs someone who did not invest. Also, Keysight/R&S/Brand A have many years of experience of testing complex devices. They also have many experienced people who are able to use their intuition and discover bugs first before the public ever see them. Their ability to pull this off will obviously diminish as they lose these people through natural attrition, cutbacks etc and as the complexity of the instruments increases. They will need to adapt and no doubt they are doing so as this is pretty obvious stuff. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: hendorog on June 25, 2018, 09:51:06 am --- --- Quote from: lukier on June 25, 2018, 09:17:14 am --- --- Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pm ---They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it. --- End quote --- This is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread). Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe :) ). --- End quote --- I am sure that the part about not testing their firmware is not true. All companies test their hardware, firmware and software before release. --- End quote --- The difference is that with Rigol (and Siglent) very basic functions are not working properly and new versions even break existing functionality every now and then. There is no other explaination for this other than that the testing is not performed in a structured way (= using a test plan and a software tester / software testing department) which equals to not testing at all. |
| toli:
I must agree with this point. I recently got the SDS1204X-E + MSO option. The MSO is a new "instrument", but I went for this combination as it seemed to tick all the boxes for my needs at a low price. Plus, its "just" a few extra digital channels for a scope that is already used by forum members for a while, right? Unfortunately, the MSO is very problematic, and practically useless, too many bugs for me to live with. Whats more, I have no idea when it'll be fixed (if at all), and if so what the fix will "cost" in other parameters of the scope. Personally, I will think twice the next time before buying an instrument that doesn't have a proven track record. |
| 1anX:
I have the good old Rigol DS1054Z and hacked it to 100Mhz with full features. Probably just one of thousands who have done this and found the scope to be good value because of its hackability. The scope has gone thru many firmware revisions with the latest being early this year. Pretty well sorted but Rigol still spell Pulses as Pluses, not exactly an issue but still no fix for a simple spelling error. The DS7000 appeals to me and probably lots of others like me that bought the DS1054Z, providing its hackable. If its hackable I would upgrade even though my 100Mhz scope meets my needs. What I'm attempting to say is if I am to upgrade to another 8 bit scope then it must represent great value for money otherwise I stay with what I have. I'm hoping Rigol will turn a blind eye to a hackable upgrade path just like it did with the DS1054Z. If this is possible then this scope will get my money and I'll upgrade. Look forward to seeing what pans out with this new scope from Rigol! |
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