Author Topic: New Rigol DS7000  (Read 55856 times)

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Offline carl0s

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2018, 10:29:57 pm »
How does this look against the R & S with the capacitive touch screen and fluent interface? 3004 or whatever it is? I think bigger screen with less laggy interface and general fluency is what would draw me into buying the 100MHz version of this. and hackability of course :)
The Rigol looks to be much better value with more memory. We just need to see if the interface is good. Even though I have no genuine need or use for it, I could see myself buying one of these just for the general tool-addiction satisfaction.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 10:33:51 pm by carl0s »
--
Carl
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2018, 06:04:08 pm »
Has Rigol approached you already about this new DS/MSO 7000 series Dave?
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2018, 10:06:00 pm »
It would appear to me that Rigol has not made this new scope available in the field yet for 3rd party testing!

Begs the question, why!!!!!!!

I cant find an independent review anywhere on line. Its got me thinking the new scope may have some teething, (or worse) problems and they need time to arrange a fix?

Why else would Rigol keep such a well spec'd meter featuring their new ASIC away from independent reviews. Marketing test instruments like this without reviews means loss of sales to other brands. I dont understand Rigol's delay in getting scopes out the door for review, maybe a Rigol representative would like to comment?
 

Offline John South

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #103 on: July 24, 2018, 03:06:36 am »
Hi All - Just a heads up that we (Emona Instruments) are getting one of these in for Dave to review. It will be here pretty soon and I'm just contacting Dave now. For any Australian and New Zealand people interested we also have local demonstration units available - any interest in seeing one please PM me .
Disclosure : I work for Emona Instruments. We are a supplier of T&M equipment in Australia and are the Australian Distributors for Rigol. www.emona.com.au/rigol
 
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Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #104 on: July 24, 2018, 06:14:45 am »
Hi All - Just a heads up that we (Emona Instruments) are getting one of these in for Dave to review. It will be here pretty soon and I'm just contacting Dave now. For any Australian and New Zealand people interested we also have local demonstration units available - any interest in seeing one please PM me .

Thats great news!
I'm looking forward to finding out more about the Scope and no better way than a review from EEVBlog!
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #105 on: July 24, 2018, 01:27:10 pm »
The actual review should be detailed and not be fluffy!

When is Dave Jones going to review the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series?

In this review I would like to see an extensive real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.

The test should test the speed when using full memory depth, and should verify if the protocol decoding is really done in hardware.

One should also make a long memory capture, and search in the long memory capture to verify how easy it is to search within a long trace.

Maybe use an actual PCB board of a commercial product, where I2C, SPI, CAN signals are present, and perform a real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.
Perform a real world troubleshooting session, to put the product to a real world test!

This video would have a dual function: verify how good the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series is, and at the same time educate about troubleshooting techniques using powerful protocol decoder and LA tools.

Of course the test should also verify how good the new analog front-end is (bandwidth, trigger implementation, jitter, noise level).

Rumours in the past indicated that Rigol engineers have no clue on how to properly implement the trigger circuitry, and that there actually is a fundamental flaw in the design.
Maybe the trigger implementation can be verified in the new Rigol 7000 series.

Another nice test would be to check if Rigol has a similar feature as Siglent to generate Bode diagrams on the oscilloscope, where the oscilloscope controls an external signal generator.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #106 on: July 24, 2018, 06:25:12 pm »
The actual review should be detailed and not be fluffy!

When is Dave Jones going to review the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series?

In this review I would like to see an extensive real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.

The test should test the speed when using full memory depth, and should verify if the protocol decoding is really done in hardware.

One should also make a long memory capture, and search in the long memory capture to verify how easy it is to search within a long trace.

Maybe use an actual PCB board of a commercial product, where I2C, SPI, CAN signals are present, and perform a real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.
Perform a real world troubleshooting session, to put the product to a real world test!

This video would have a dual function: verify how good the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series is, and at the same time educate about troubleshooting techniques using powerful protocol decoder and LA tools.

Of course the test should also verify how good the new analog front-end is (bandwidth, trigger implementation, jitter, noise level).

Rumours in the past indicated that Rigol engineers have no clue on how to properly implement the trigger circuitry, and that there actually is a fundamental flaw in the design.
Maybe the trigger implementation can be verified in the new Rigol 7000 series.

Another nice test would be to check if Rigol has a similar feature as Siglent to generate Bode diagrams on the oscilloscope, where the oscilloscope controls an external signal generator.
Such a thourough review takes a lot of time (I've been down that road before a couple of times) and doesn't lend itself well for video. I think Dave will take it apart and do a quick tour on how it works in general (and that's probably it). The teardown will be kinda interesting but not something you'd use for a purchase decission.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2018, 07:49:27 am »
Such a thourough review takes a lot of time (I've been down that road before a couple of times) and doesn't lend itself well for video. I think Dave will take it apart and do a quick tour on how it works in general (and that's probably it). The teardown will be kinda interesting but not something you'd use for a purchase decission.

Emona Instruments clearly state they will be making the DS7000 available to Dave for a review. There is a clear expectation that Dave will review the product and I'm sure he will also do a teardown while he is at it!
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #108 on: July 25, 2018, 01:18:05 pm »
Such a great and marvelous piece of equipment deserves a great and marvelous review!
 

Offline Old Printer

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2018, 04:54:59 pm »
Since Dave did the quick teardown of the Siglent 1104X-E 8 months ago he has not seriously revisited this scope. I know when he did the Rigol 1054Z it was a market changing release and he did a couple (2 plus a dedicated summary) indepth reviews of it. Since I am in the market for a low budget 4 channel scope I am disappointed at not seeing a more serious follow up of the Siglent. I know Dave is more of a hardware guy than software, and most of the changes to the Siglent have been soft/firmware. I am quite interested in seeing how he treats this Rigol 7000D, in what seems a fairly substantial release from them. Will he give it the indepth 2-3 video attention he gave the 1054Z? Is he getting away from dissecting equipment that deeply? I know there have been a good number of other YouTube reviews of the Siglent 1104, but Dave has been kind of the standard I use to judge the others by. Even though this scope is way out of my market, it's design and components may trickle down to the hobby level I am at.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #110 on: July 27, 2018, 12:21:48 am »
 :scared:
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 12:26:12 am by jjoonathan »
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #111 on: July 27, 2018, 03:08:12 pm »
Since Dave did the quick teardown of the Siglent 1104X-E 8 months ago he has not seriously revisited this scope. I know when he did the Rigol 1054Z it was a market changing release and he did a couple (2 plus a dedicated summary) indepth reviews of it. Since I am in the market for a low budget 4 channel scope I am disappointed at not seeing a more serious follow up of the Siglent. I know Dave is more of a hardware guy than software, and most of the changes to the Siglent have been soft/firmware. I am quite interested in seeing how he treats this Rigol 7000D, in what seems a fairly substantial release from them. Will he give it the indepth 2-3 video attention he gave the 1054Z? Is he getting away from dissecting equipment that deeply? I know there have been a good number of other YouTube reviews of the Siglent 1104, but Dave has been kind of the standard I use to judge the others by. Even though this scope is way out of my market, it's design and components may trickle down to the hobby level I am at.

As for videos I'd expect a teardown video and nothing more. He barely touched the R&S scopes other than for demonstrating problems.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #112 on: July 27, 2018, 03:58:50 pm »
What interests me most about the DS7000 is how many CPU horsepower it has under the hood to process signals. This is where oscilloscopes (cheap and expensive) usually fall flat on their face with very few exceptions. The DS7000 is likely to be a bugfest for at least the first few years but with a decent amount of CPU power there is at least some potential.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 05:43:09 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #113 on: July 27, 2018, 08:04:59 pm »
Maybe, but even in Rigol's demo videos the FFT is a dog.
 

Offline snoopy

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #114 on: July 28, 2018, 12:42:33 am »
Looks like Tek, Keysight and others might have a bit of catching up to do. The days of charging megabucks for a mid level scope might be over now that the chinese have moved into this segment. But then doesn't the Tek MDO3000 come bundled with a spectrum analyser ?

cheers

« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 12:44:20 am by snoopy »
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #115 on: July 28, 2018, 01:44:22 am »
Maybe, but even in Rigol's demo videos the FFT is a dog.

Which demo is that? The one I saw made it look pretty impressive at first glance, but was static so hard to really conclude anything.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #116 on: July 28, 2018, 01:50:40 am »
You can judge here: https://youtu.be/zrfG9wtQjh0?t=98

The big color-graded FM demo was static for a reason  ::)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #117 on: July 28, 2018, 03:09:09 am »
FYI, I should be getting one early this week. I believe it's the 500MHz model, but I assume the hardware is the same. I haven't looked into details.
 

Offline 1anX

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #118 on: July 28, 2018, 04:19:22 am »
FYI, I should be getting one early this week. I believe it's the 500MHz model, but I assume the hardware is the same. I haven't looked into details.
I'm looking forward to your review!
You must be the first outside of Rigol and its Distributors to get your hands on one!
Will it be a hackable upgrade and does it perform, can't wait to watch the video.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #119 on: July 28, 2018, 04:49:39 am »
You can judge here: https://youtu.be/zrfG9wtQjh0?t=98

The big color-graded FM demo was static for a reason  ::)

You mean the slow refresh? But isnt that just because its being triggered externally by the spec an?
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #120 on: July 28, 2018, 05:18:29 am »
I agree with nctnico.. Don't see a point. If you're spending $3K+ on a scope chances are you're not a hobbyist. And as such you should get a proper scope from one of the big boys.

Rigol's UI alone makes me want to pull my hair out. No way would I put up with it if money wasn't tight, which if you're getting one of these 7K ones, it isn't. Not to mention all the bugs.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #121 on: July 28, 2018, 06:27:34 am »
I agree with nctnico.. Don't see a point. If you're spending $3K+ on a scope chances are you're not a hobbyist. And as such you should get a proper scope from one of the big boys.

Rigol's UI alone makes me want to pull my hair out. No way would I put up with it if money wasn't tight, which if you're getting one of these 7K ones, it isn't. Not to mention all the bugs.

The price of the lowest end model is a mere $400 more than the list price of the, rather old now, DS4014. And it has much better specs.
Quite a few of us have those DS4k scopes.

It might turn out to be rubbish, will be interested to see what Dave thinks. But right now it looks pretty good.

And with a bit of luck the big boys will be forced to release something decent to compete, like last time. It's a win win for hobbyists.
 

Offline timgiles

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #122 on: July 28, 2018, 07:43:20 am »
I agree, looking like the UI is responsive throughout the video - only that it is waiting for a trigger event to occur.

You can judge here: https://youtu.be/zrfG9wtQjh0?t=98

The big color-graded FM demo was static for a reason  ::)

You mean the slow refresh? But isnt that just because its being triggered externally by the spec an?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #123 on: July 28, 2018, 07:59:59 am »
Looks like Tek, Keysight and others might have a bit of catching up to do. The days of charging megabucks for a mid level scope might be over now that the chinese have moved into this segment. But then doesn't the Tek MDO3000 come bundled with a spectrum analyser ?
The devil is in the details. I went down this road before thinking a 'cheaper' Chinese scope would perform equally well based on specs on paper but it didn't and I ended up wasting a few k euro.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol DS7000
« Reply #124 on: July 28, 2018, 10:21:43 am »
I agree, looking like the UI is responsive throughout the video - only that it is waiting for a trigger event to occur.

You can judge here: https://youtu.be/zrfG9wtQjh0?t=98

The big color-graded FM demo was static for a reason  ::)

You mean the slow refresh? But isnt that just because its being triggered externally by the spec an?

And also, that is on a 125 Megasamples... Not  32kS, not 4MS.. So that looks interesting.

It seems a very promising hardware. It will drill down to bugs. If it won't be buggy then a good scope.
As far as U/I goes, that's personal preference..

From what I could see browsing through the manual, it has many good things.

The problems I see:
  • One thing I don't like is that in manual math seems very rudimentary. The way it is described in manual it doesn't have advanced mode, meaning arbitrary math. That means math, as described, is on the level of ds100Z not ds4000. That's not good.
  • Math source can be only channel and ref. No math to math piping. R&S RTM3000 does it right.
  • Because of 2. you cannot perform FFT on math. That would be awesome. Picoscope, R&S RTM3000, Tek MDO3000/4000 and others can do it...
  • On all list/table based U/I elements, use of screen estate is inefficient. Lots of small windows in the middle of the screen,overlapping over other important data, no docking... R&S is doing it right, Lecroy too.  Keysight is kinda OK.
I'm sure if I played with it for some time I would find more things that are suboptimal for a scope that wants to be midrange..
 


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