New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser

[Sighound36]

Hello Sparky

I use both the MSO8000 and RSA5000 through an external monitor in the lab to great effect it does help, the monitor is at eye height, just use a hdmi splitter to swap inputs.

Really surprised that more of the bigger companies do not include this in the lower and mid point ranges.

[tv84]

Doing a quick comparison between a  RSA5032-TG mainboard v1.04 and a RSA3015E-TG mainboard v1.03, these seem to be the only differences.

Maybe someone can do a proper teardown...

[srce]

U305/U306 - 140MHz filter - https://www.vectron.com/products/saw/pdf_saw/TFS140AU.pdf

[Click_whirr]

Finding out what U307 might take some probing of the board. I've an 'E' version unfortunately, but I'm certainly keen to do some guinea-pig modifications to mine.

Can you probe out which pins are the supply and GND tv84? Some good old fashioned trawling datasheets might do it.
There at least seems to be an output on pin18, and an input on 24.

[tv84]

I attach the calibration data from 2 different RSA models: 3015E-TG and a 3030-TG  (you can easily see that the 3015E comes calibrated up to 3GHz)

The data inside the equipments are in a different format (SQLite DB) but this way is easier to visualize it.

Sheets and related SCPI set commands:

ATT       :PRIVate:CALibration:FRESponse:ATT<n>
PA        :PRIVate:CALibration:FRESponse:PA<n>
AMP       :PRIVate:CALibration:FRESponse:AMPLitude - TG calibration
INS0      :PRIVate:CALibration:FRESponse:INS<n> - related with the Realtime BW
INTSPUR0  :PRIVate:CALibration:FRESponse:ISPUr
DAC       :PRIVate:CALibration:DAC:RECord:....
TEMP0     :PRIVate:TEMPerature<n>


If anyone has some knowledge about calibration parameters and could elaborate on these tables/fields, it would be great.


For those that have a RSA3045 or a RSA5065, I would also be very much interested in seeing the cal data.

[mysol]

Hello!

Can anyone tell me is there any hack of BW for RSA3015E? TV84 shows 3 GHz BW for 3015 model. How do you achieve that?
Thanks!

[Gandalf_Sr]

So I'm considering an RSA3000 series Rigol SA but the Rigol web site leaves me confused about the difference between the 3000 and 3000E versions, this page has the table below but what's the difference between an RSA3030E and an RSA3030 and have you guys noticed that there's now an RSA3045?

[egonotto]

Hello,

RBW and Real-time Analysis Bandwidth.

RBW 1 Hz to 10 MHz is a option for RSA3000 and
Real-time Analysis Bandwidth 25 MHz is a option for RSA3000 and
Real-time Analysis Bandwidth 40 MHz is a option for RSA3000.

Best regards
egonotto

[Gandalf_Sr]

Hello,

RBW and Real-time Analysis Bandwidth.

RBW 1 Hz to 10 MHz is a option for RSA3000 and
Real-time Analysis Bandwidth 25 MHz is a option for RSA3000 and
Real-time Analysis Bandwidth 40 MHz is a option for RSA3000.

Best regards
egonotto

Thanks,

But aren't those just bandwidth filters?

That begs the question, is the RSA3000 hardware different from the RS3000E?

[Sighound36]

From the conversations I have been having with Tv84 and few other users there does seem to be some fundamental differences between the newer 3030 and the 5065's.

Its seems I have the only 3030 that has been opened up, recently I rebuilt the frankly very average power supply in side the RSA (and the MSO8000 they are the same  )

I took some images of the inside Tv84 has then he was comparing them with a genuine 5065.

Happy to help where I can

[jemangedeslolos]

Im not a RF guy but I sometimes needed a spectrum analyser.
I bought an SVA1015X last year but I got fucked by Siglent so I sent it back.
If I have a project again where I can afford a spectrum analyzer, I think it will be the Rigol RSA3015E-TG so i will follow this post carefully 

[mysol]

It looks like the SSH is locked. Can't acces via port 22...
Software/Hardware versions in attachment
Any advice? Thank you!

[tv84]

Here are 2 scripts to make FULL BACKUPs of RSA3000(E) and 5000 (I think...  long time I looked at this...).

[Sighound36]

My time of late has been taken up with some time consuming projects which should have been completed a while ago, buts that's life 

Rigol RSA update time, a while back I stripped out the power supply on the MSO 8000 and introduced some quality components into the design, now that had a nice positive effect on the scope, more of that in an upcoming post.

That got me in the mood to, "don't use use it, liberate the casings' I believe is a well known phrase in these parts 

So I proceeded to do the same to the RSA Tv84 enhanced unit, well struth Bruce if they aren't the same cheap arsed power supply  .

If you own any of the the following models they all have the same SMPS RSA3000/5000 and the MSO/DSO 7000/8000.

Tv84 has been slaving away with his necromancer like abilities with coding to try and get to the bottom of the 3.2Ghz floor limit even after his opening up spell has been cast.

I believe he now has the information he requires to demystify the current impasse that has plagued users on this forum from being able to use the full bandwidth on an opened up RSA 3000 upwards (not E models).

So without further ado please find below a series of base line noise floor screen images from a genuine fully used RSA5065 running the latest firmware, no options activated on this unit so just the basic 25Mhz real time BW

The second set of identical freqency readings are from the code fettled wondrous world of the Mage of deep SCPI extraction plus a little open frame surgery from this humble Metcal twirler.

Both Real time analysers had been running for a solid two hours and the temp in the lab yesterday was  a very pleasant 24C.

First is a straight sweep at full BW of 6.5Ghz, then 100Khz, 10Khz and lastly 3Khz (and that took a wee while ) All the sweeps has the 'Accy' function selected, this is a posh button on the RSA that means I believe translates to  'averaging'

Then the same frequency sweeps conducted with the Pre Amp activated.

You will be able to see for yourselves the power supply improvements have paid off nicely a good -2 to -3dbm drop in noise floor generally, after 4Ghz in some places up to -7dBm resulting in a much more fluid and straighter trace line.

So around three hours of time, £48 worth of quality components has proved rather beneficial.

Have some more updates this time on a DG822 but that is for the other thread on Rigol function generators.

I believe next week an ester egg will be popping up for the RSA3000/5000 models (not sure about the E version yet) suffice to say it will be most pleasing.

The next post will have the pre amplifier enabled images

[Sighound36]

Second part this time with the pre amp switched on.

Seems my USB transfer stick has lost some information in transit bugger, the 100Khz and 3Khz PA on  stock unit images are missing

Will address that tomorrow apologies chaps!

[tv84]

Great PSU change! 

[Sighound36]

Thank you Tv84 

I have attached a few images of the before and after.

[Sighound36]

Last two images of the finished board and the er um Krapzon caps that came out.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Hmmm, the PSU improvements are clearly huge but the fact that there's 25 cent capacitors in such an expensive SA questions the VFM of the whole equation; the cheapest RSA303-TG is $5,800 and, hacked or not, there's no VNA mode (or is there?).

[jemangedeslolos]

I have to do the same on my MSO7k!
Thank you Sighound36, can't wait for your upcoming posts 

[tautech]

Rigol RSA update time, a while back I stripped out the power supply on the MSO 8000 and introduced some quality components into the design, now that had a nice positive effect on the scope, more of that in an upcoming post.

but not really. 

Search the forum/internet for Project Yaigol. 

[tv84]

there's no VNA mode (or is there?).

 

[Sighound36]

Sorry Tautech what I was eluding to was a similar upgrade in the MSO 8000 noise floor and general smooth running of the unit.

I will also start a section on the Siglent equipment I have improved in a similar vien particularly the DMM's and the VNA's the respond rather well to power supply improvements particularly regulation improvement which translates to greatly  improved  stability of the unit.

 Gandalf sr it's not just Rigol ( to be fair Dave did point this out when he did a tear down of the MSO 7000) have seen inside the baby R&S vna and the psu is tiny with enough room in the case to park rampant rhino in there  I am looking to further improve the RSA again with some  line emc filtration  revisions as well as the switching frequency damping and secondary stage work



Mind you the psu in the DG822 is quite dire they must have paid $12 at the most that did make some quite decent gains I will put those FG tests up this week as well be careful  what you wish for it may really happen 

[tautech]

Sorry Tautech what I was eluding to was a similar upgrade in the MSO 8000 noise floor and general smooth running of the unit.

I will also start a section on the Siglent equipment I have improved in a similar vien particularly the DMM's and the VNA's the respond rather well to power supply improvements particularly regulation improvement which translates to greatly  improved  stability of the unit.

Hmmm, before and after detailed measurements of PSU performance is mandatory. 
I have a couple of units I can open for checks but not any new gears of course.

IMO it would be necessary to compare initial measurements against service manual spec before undertaking any 'improvements'.
Certainly it's worthy of a dedicated thread with the topic focussed on the quality or not of instrument PSU's but the topic is deep due to the proliferation of 'on PCB' convertors where each can have an impact on performance like is outlined in the Project Yaigol thread. < is an interesting read and almost mandatory if we are to dive down this rabbit hole.

[Sparky]

You will be able to see for yourselves the power supply improvements have paid off nicely a good -2 to -3dbm drop in noise floor generally, after 4Ghz in some places up to -7dBm resulting in a much more fluid and straighter trace line.

I couldn't determine from the filenames of the images which ones are the "before" and then "after" the power supply mod (capacitor replacement).   (Or perhaps you are comparing the RSA5065 data to "tv84" RSA3000 upgrade version?

Just a suggestion: I think the impact of the capacitor replacement would be more easily distinguished if the before/after data were plot on the same axes (and the data come from the same instrument).  I haven't checked but I'm assuming it's possible to save the trace data instead of just "screenshot".