Author Topic: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser  (Read 21886 times)

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Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #125 on: May 26, 2020, 06:36:36 am »
I see nice improvement from 3GHz up (preamp on 10kHz BW), but I also see new spur at around 120MHz.
On a pics without preamp, you can see that spur at 120 MHz on stock (3kHz BW) is there  , but on "post" 120MHz spur is 10 dBm higher.
Also new spurs at 1550 MHz and 2775MHz, 5-6 dBm..
Similar as "with preamp", from 3GHz up, noise floor is better..

It can be that now PSU buses became resonant on some (other than before) frequencies (lower ESR, higher Q), or probably RSA has some spur rejection in software that would need recalibration.......Or both...
 
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Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #126 on: May 26, 2020, 08:34:17 am »
Or perhaps you are comparing the RSA5065 data to "tv84" RSA3000 upgrade version?

This one.

He didn't do any before photos so, now, he can only compare with another RSA. What you ask is the best way but now it'll be impossible.

At least, he's comparing a 3030 "upped" with a 5065 "stock". Without the PSU improvement it still is a very nice upgrade given the fact that, precisely in the additional range (3-6.5GHz), is where it is better than a supposedly calibrated one.
 
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Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #127 on: May 26, 2020, 08:38:41 am »
I see nice improvement from 3GHz up (preamp on 10kHz BW), but I also see new spur at around 120MHz.
On a pics without preamp, you can see that spur at 120 MHz on stock (3kHz BW) is there  , but on "post" 120MHz spur is 10 dBm higher.
Also new spurs at 1550 MHz and 2775MHz, 5-6 dBm..
Similar as "with preamp", from 3GHz up, noise floor is better..

It can be that now PSU buses became resonant on some (other than before) frequencies (lower ESR, higher Q), or probably RSA has some spur rejection in software that would need recalibration.......Or both...

I agree but i find it hard to believe that Rigol would do any software filtering of something caused by a PSU (made with crap components which may create any random effects of that type).
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #128 on: May 26, 2020, 08:49:56 am »
2N3055

I would agree the 120Mhz I know is the obvious one, I suspect this has something to do with a glitch that another forum user had identified with his RSA and we have spoken about, I will be delving deeper into this in the coming weeks.

Your observations are very fair with regard to resonances and as I mentioned before  in a previous post plans are afoot to look at the line filtration insertion losses plus as well as  revisions in the switching frequency damping and secondary stage work.

However it a nice start. I would like mention my unit has the option OXCO clock fitted, for the comparison I removed the clock but in the interests of fairness I placed in the stock unit and performed the same sweeps the results were identical on the the stock 5065 screen, but that is as far as it went.

What i could do is set up up the Agilent VSG and measure the output on both units at some point as well.

While I was inside the unit I did notice the circuit layout around the main clock at the bottom center right of the circuit board, I will take some measurements in a few strategic places as well.

All good fun though
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #129 on: May 26, 2020, 02:05:13 pm »
I see nice improvement from 3GHz up (preamp on 10kHz BW), but I also see new spur at around 120MHz.
On a pics without preamp, you can see that spur at 120 MHz on stock (3kHz BW) is there  , but on "post" 120MHz spur is 10 dBm higher.
Also new spurs at 1550 MHz and 2775MHz, 5-6 dBm..
Similar as "with preamp", from 3GHz up, noise floor is better..

It can be that now PSU buses became resonant on some (other than before) frequencies (lower ESR, higher Q), or probably RSA has some spur rejection in software that would need recalibration.......Or both...

I agree but i find it hard to believe that Rigol would do any software filtering of something caused by a PSU (made with crap components which may create any random effects of that type).
It wouldn't be PSU specific, but many instruments will try to "sanitize" spurs (any spurs) and they do it by taking baseline and than "do something" about it... My Signal Hound has "Suppress spurs" mode.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #130 on: May 26, 2020, 02:15:44 pm »
2N3055

I would agree the 120Mhz I know is the obvious one, I suspect this has something to do with a glitch that another forum user had identified with his RSA and we have spoken about, I will be delving deeper into this in the coming weeks.

Your observations are very fair with regard to resonances and as I mentioned before  in a previous post plans are afoot to look at the line filtration insertion losses plus as well as  revisions in the switching frequency damping and secondary stage work.

However it a nice start. I would like mention my unit has the option OXCO clock fitted, for the comparison I removed the clock but in the interests of fairness I placed in the stock unit and performed the same sweeps the results were identical on the the stock 5065 screen, but that is as far as it went.

What i could do is set up up the Agilent VSG and measure the output on both units at some point as well.

While I was inside the unit I did notice the circuit layout around the main clock at the bottom center right of the circuit board, I will take some measurements in a few strategic places as well.

All good fun though

I mentioned resonances because I have some experience with switchers designed to have resonant filters...  |O
And also power planes resonating with decoupling capacitors... Lots of  fun...Not.
I wasn't complaining, just commenting.  I have no doubt that you will be able to do some serious work here and looking forward to it!!
Best regards,
 
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #131 on: May 26, 2020, 06:34:48 pm »
I did find time today to drill down a bit more into the noise floor differences, have been working on a new psu so LISN time  :-/O

So I have broken down the results into what I feel are more meaningful segments.

First I set up the sweep from 0-150Mhz on each unit, both had been running for a few hours both on the same power conditioner outlets.

Then one from 0-3.2Ghz, then 3.2-6.5Ghz then 5.5-6.5Ghz at various RBW's

Cables are T-flex 405 18Ghz with quality crimped stainless matching bandwidth connectors.

Also an image of the set up so you can see both RSA working in the same environment.

Next post all of the screen images

Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #132 on: May 26, 2020, 06:54:57 pm »
Below are the images I took earlier.

The psu improvements are also evident at the  lower end of the spectrum as well  8)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 07:24:21 pm by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #133 on: July 01, 2020, 08:59:11 pm »
It seems there is a new FW version for RSA3000E:

Link
 
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Offline mysol

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2020, 08:26:52 am »
Hm, the files inside tell it is old firmware....
 

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2020, 08:30:43 am »
Hm, the files inside tell it is old firmware....

Which version?
 

Offline mysol

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #136 on: July 18, 2020, 01:40:40 pm »
Which version?
The version of the file in the archive that you sent? Honestly, I didn't check after seeing the modify date.
[attach=1]
 

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #137 on: July 18, 2020, 02:11:54 pm »
The version of the file in the archive that you sent? Honestly, I didn't check after seeing the modify date.

What I wanted to know is the version showed in system info.
 

Offline mysol

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Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #139 on: August 18, 2020, 02:08:39 pm »
New firmware v00.03.00.00.29:

[Model Supported] RSA5065,RSA5065-TG,RSA5065N
                                RSA5032,RSA5032-TG,RSA5032N
                                RSA3015N,RSA3030,RSA3030-TG,RSA3030N
                                RSA3045,RSA3045-TG,RSA3045N

[Latest Revision Date] 2020-07-16


[Updated Contents]
00.03.00

    - Add Vector Network Analyzer Application(VNA),
                   Only for N Mode.

Link.
 
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Offline mysol

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2020, 07:33:54 pm »
I've tried to look some more information about this update. They've made only new app for VNA but for all versions of RSA3/5. What?)
 

Online tv84

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #141 on: August 29, 2020, 07:36:26 pm »
RSA5000 Declassification & Performance Verification Guides.

RSA3000(-E) Performance Verification Guides.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 08:17:39 pm by tv84 »
 


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