Author Topic: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser  (Read 21849 times)

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Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 05:22:53 am »
Another very good option for a RTSA that won't cost you an arm, leg, or kidneys is the Signal Hound SM200A. 20 GHz analysis bandwidth, 160 MHz (!) RTBW, and overall better noise figure compared to the Rigol. Price is similar to Rigol's offering, but as far as I can see, it doesn't have built in TG.

SignalHound SM200A is off-topic here but looks interesting, especially as competitor to RSA5000.  @taydin: You seem to know a little about it so wondering if you wouldn't mind to create a thread for it at your convenience.  Will be great to read more about it's capabilities.
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 05:32:28 am »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2018, 07:04:11 am »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Wouldn't a radio receiver + oscilloscope be more suitable for that?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2018, 03:54:54 pm »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Yes it will when the VSA part will be implemented, probably second part of this year. It will go up to 256 QAM.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 09:07:18 pm »
If you want to compare to Signal Hound, SH BB60C is more direct comparison than SM200A. 9kHz - 6GHz , 27MHz real-time bandwidth...
RSA5000 might have better front end and better specs though ...
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 10:02:24 pm »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Wouldn't a radio receiver + oscilloscope be more suitable for that?

I'm not sure.  How would it work?  Typical sub-1GHz ISM band carrier frequencies are around ~433MHz, ~868MH, ~915MHz --- so will need to have a scope with high bandwidth (especially for 915MHz carrier).  I don't have a scope with 1GHz of bandwidth...  I found this Keysight App Note which explains decoding ASK modulation.

Or are you suggesting the radio receiver would demodulate and remove the carrier frequency so the oscilloscope measures only the demodulated signal? 
 

Online nctnico

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2018, 10:12:28 pm »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Wouldn't a radio receiver + oscilloscope be more suitable for that?

I'm not sure.  How would it work?  Typical sub-1GHz ISM band carrier frequencies are around ~433MHz, ~868MH, ~915MHz --- so will need to have a scope with high bandwidth (especially for 915MHz carrier).  I don't have a scope with 1GHz of bandwidth...  I found this Keysight App Note which explains decoding ASK modulation.

Or are you suggesting the radio receiver would demodulate and remove the carrier frequency so the oscilloscope measures only the demodulated signal?
Yes. Use a radio receiver to demodulate the signal and look at that using an oscilloscope.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Safar

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2018, 12:00:20 am »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Wouldn't a radio receiver + oscilloscope be more suitable for that?

I'm not sure.  How would it work?  Typical sub-1GHz ISM band carrier frequencies are around ~433MHz, ~868MH, ~915MHz --- so will need to have a scope with high bandwidth (especially for 915MHz carrier).  I don't have a scope with 1GHz of bandwidth...  I found this Keysight App Note which explains decoding ASK modulation.

Or are you suggesting the radio receiver would demodulate and remove the carrier frequency so the oscilloscope measures only the demodulated signal?
Yes. Use a radio receiver to demodulate the signal and look at that using an oscilloscope.
Radio receiver with demodulator don't show all frequency domain magic. Spurious, harmonics, band allocation, freq response etc.
 

Offline Safar

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2018, 12:13:32 am »
And when compare prices of RTSA I think is correct to look on dynamic range also. You can take "cheap" 12bit HiSpeed ADC and get NotBad-SDR-like SA, but specially designed ASIC with at least 16bit will be better I hope.
 

Offline G0HZU

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2018, 12:48:53 am »
I guess a 'used' alternative in a similar price range would be the old Tek RSA3408A RTSA. This offers 8.5GHz and 36MHz RTBW. The user interface on the Tek is a bit clunky and laggy but with a few decent options fitted (eg option 002 is a must have) the old RSA3408A would be a reasonable competitor in terms of (used) price/performance.

https://www.tek.com/datasheet/rsa3408a-real-time-spectrum-analyzers-datasheet

One big disadvantage of the Tek will be the service and support costs from Tektronix. I think Tek will demand something like $12,000 as an initial service charge if you ever wanted them to repair an RSA3408A that isn't in a current $$$ support contract. So best to do all your own repairs if you buy one of these!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 01:02:15 am by G0HZU »
 

Offline usagi

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2018, 02:07:20 am »
if you don't need RT, there's good deals to be had.

used spectrum analyzer buyer's guide

 8)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 02:09:16 am by usagi »
 

Offline Scratch.HTF

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2018, 12:20:09 pm »
I don't know why the preamp hardware requires a software key, or that the bandwidth (expensive analog hardware) of oscilloscopes can be "upgraded" with a software key - these "hardware enabling" keys are basically expensive gimmicks.
If it runs on Linux, there is some hackability in it.
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2018, 06:13:12 am »
Hmm...still no reviews out in the wild on this RSA5000?  Is it in limited supply from distributors and just not getting into the hands of people to test?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2018, 07:40:48 am »
Saw one on Emona's stand at the Auckland EMEX show earlier this week.
Like the image that Dave posted in the OP, it's BIG !
And in charcoal gray ?   :o :-//



Anyways, had a nice chat with member John South too.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 07:47:47 am by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline ogden

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2018, 07:42:20 am »
Yes. Use a radio receiver to demodulate the signal and look at that using an oscilloscope.

If you are poor hobbyist, then perhaps this is the way to get around the problem of not having signal analyzer function of SA to ( try ) debug your transmitter. Otherwise it is not that simple. Try to use your radio receiver + scope to do something like this:


 
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Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2018, 08:37:46 pm »
I'm wondering how the Rigol RSA5000 will do for demodulating typical sub-1GHz schemes like ASK, FSK, and GFSK?  Is it able to show the waveform of demodulated symbols?
Yes it will when the VSA part will be implemented, probably second part of this year. It will go up to 256 QAM.

Any update on this?  Is it going to be a free upgrade by system firmware, or optional software license?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2018, 08:44:26 pm »
we have Rigol EU sales meeting next week, hope to get several news to share with you all.
Technical Support
 
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Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2018, 08:55:37 pm »
Yes. Use a radio receiver to demodulate the signal and look at that using an oscilloscope.

If you are poor hobbyist, then perhaps this is the way to get around the problem of not having signal analyzer function of SA to ( try ) debug your transmitter. Otherwise it is not that simple. Try to use your radio receiver + scope to do something like this:



Thanks, that is awesome!  Is this Rigol going to be able to do that!?
 

Offline ogden

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2018, 12:03:31 am »
Thanks, that is awesome!  Is this Rigol going to be able to do that!?

Most likely not. Datasheet/leaflet does not mention demodulation capability.

There's more about real time spectrum and signal analysis and demodulation as well:

 
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Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2018, 12:37:45 am »
we have Rigol EU sales meeting next week, hope to get several news to share with you all.

Hi Simone!

Any update?  Really looking forward to some real-world application and critical reviews of this equipment...but still not much out there.  Can you share anything of the demodulation capabilities?

Thanks!
 

Offline IRB

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2018, 01:15:57 pm »
Has anyone else tried a Rigol 5065-TG?

I had a demo unit, I did a SAVE "Screen Image", Rigol emailed me back that this is not a bug...   |O

The bmp files have a pop up on one, and on the other one a keyboard over the data, I converted them to jpg to post here
 
Now I found how to put up a Poll   
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rigol-5065-tg-save-image-function/new/#new
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 06:17:21 pm by IRB »
 

Offline taydin

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2018, 06:55:07 am »
I had a demo unit, I did a SAVE "Screen Image", Rigol emailed me back that this is not a bug...   |O

If there is no separate function to save just the waveform, then this is indeed a problem. But if Rigol provided a way to save the waveform, then my take on this is "saving a screen image" means saving EXACTLY what's on the screen ... So this would be a feature, not a bug :)

If Rigol would provide a "save screen image" that picks stuff from the screen and omits other stuff, they would never be able to get it right. There would be as many opinions about what should be included and what should be omitted as the number of screws in the unit  ;D For example, consider the case where a college bought these and wants to write a course manual for the students. In this case, you would want those dialogs on the screen. You would also want the pop ups that show the errors when something was done wrong.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 07:02:12 am by taydin »
Real programmers use machine code!

My hobby projects http://mekatronik.org/forum
 

Offline IRB

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2018, 12:18:58 pm »
There is a Save Measure function, that will save the 801 points of data in to a .cvs file.
I was doing a long data collection in Max Hold, 10 minutes of data collection to compare, two antennas.

I could have saved the data, taken the data a graphed it, to end up with the same image, as I thought I would get with the "SAVE Screen Image"
 
So yes, saving the measurement data, would have be a wise decision.

Poll at:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rigol-5065-tg-save-image-function/new/#new
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 12:21:27 pm by IRB »
 

Offline Mad ID

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2018, 07:49:59 am »
Has anyone else tried a Rigol 5065-TG?

Hi, we had a demo unit for test.
I was surprised to find that internal spurious emission is much worse than on DSA875-TG. e.q. peaks every 10MHz from 0-100MHz, every 100MHz above 1GHz etc.

Don't know if this is normal for all spectrum analyzers but we'll stick with the old model as real time is not crucial for us. It's not about the peaks, but there are too much of them. Don't wont to ask myself where is this coming from for every EMC measurement.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 07:51:45 am by Mad ID »
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: New Rigol RSA5000 Real Time Spectrum Analyser
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2019, 07:03:29 am »
Just noticed a new YouTube video "Introduction of the VSA Measurement Application for the RSA5000 Series".



User's Guide and Programming Guide are available from Rigol website: https://www.rigolna.com/complex-signal-analysis-and-vsa-with-rsa5/

The demodulation capability looks a lot better than I had expected...but I'm not experienced to be a good judge of its worth for real-world RF test/debug.

Any opinions about it from the video, and how it compares to other RSA systems?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 07:02:54 pm by Sparky »
 


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