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New Scope Demoboard from Batronix

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tautech:

--- Quote from: Njk on March 21, 2024, 11:45:05 pm ---My point was that no matter how many triggers are implemented, a waveform will come sooner or later that can't be captured as desired using any available trigger. And it's quite an accomplishment for average user to memorize hundreds of different triggers. So I wonder if any scope allows for user to define his own trigger through some kind of scripting. There must be something like that because it seems too obvious. Adjustable zone boundaries and loadable masks are nice features but that's not what I'm asking about.

And yes, I never been a big fan of a top-notch instruments. Too much instrumentation requirements can inflate the budget that can effectively prevent the project from start. And worse, provision of an instrument that is ten times expensive usually implies the provider's expectation that I'll do my job ten times faster. Of course, it's not so simple but the elements of social engineering are always there.

--- End quote ---
Sorry but  :blah:

The simplest solution is a single trigger with a appropriate level set then assign one or two Zone triggers and let the scope do the work.
When you have a scope with these features the rest is easy.

RAPo:
Many thanks for your elaborate answer.
I don't have R&S MXO scope (yet (maybe :-DD)? the nearest R&S I have is a HMO1024)), but a video is always nice. :-+

Please don't consider me unkind; maybe I didn't express myself well, but I'm looking for something more vendor-agnostic approach that incorporates the wisdom of people (like you or old hams).
The manuals nowadays describe the trigger itself (e.g. for the SDS800X: Interval Trigger: Trigger when the time difference between the neighbouring rising or falling edges meets the time limit
condition) but not when to use it.

After this post, my mind wandered away. Wouldn't it be nice to have a trigger trilogy (either in book, PDF or video like in the MXO5):


* Trigger 101: describing the real basics (trigger type, trigger mode, trigger level, when to use  both rising and falling edge triggering, interplay with holdoff, etc.)
* Trigger SPY: a procedural approach to triggering based on a real-world question, as I indicated as an example, and some more high level: do we just capture data, trigger later  (because the new scopes are so good at it) or does it pay off to think a bit more of the problem and use a trigger and then do a further analysis. A bit like the opening discussion in .

* The art of triggering: the wisdom of the masters in all detail (like in your answer, or maybe there are more clever solutions like filtering the initial 100kHz away) centred around the signal+question at hand.
A scope demoboard could be a good 'add-on' to this trilogy.

It would indeed be nice for a relative newbie like myself.

--- Quote from: pdenisowski on March 21, 2024, 02:41:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: RAPo on March 21, 2024, 01:50:56 pm ---Is there a kind of flowchart that, based on a description of the signal characteristics, gives you a step-by-step procedure for selecting and setting up a trigger(type)?

For instance, I have a 100kHz ramp signal with an anomaly: once in a while (not constant), the signal goes away for some time and starts again. I would like to know the "blackout" period.
What are the steps to set up the scope and answer my question?

--- End quote ---

Sounds like a timeout trigger:  the scope should be configured to trigger when the signal level is < X volts for more than Y seconds. Assuming that the time/div is set properly, you should be able to acquire the entire "blackout" period and measure the time using markers.  Since the scope will trigger when the ramp resumes, you might also want to apply a trigger offset so that the ramp restart is near the right edge of the screen.

If you have (or would like to see this on) a R&S MXO oscilloscope, I'd be happy to set it up and post a short video.

(There are other ways of doing this, but that's the first that comes to mind).

--- End quote ---

RAPo:
And if you need a real world signal for your video setup, buy a Fnirsi DMT-99, set it in capacitance mode and measure the signal. Here presented on a DHO942S with edge trigger and persistence to the max:

2N3055:

--- Quote from: pdenisowski on March 22, 2024, 02:30:17 am ---
--- Quote from: Njk on March 21, 2024, 11:45:05 pm ---My point was that no matter how many triggers are implemented, a waveform will come sooner or later that can't be captured as desired using any available trigger. And it's quite an accomplishment for average user to memorize hundreds of different triggers. So I wonder if any scope allows for user to define his own trigger through some kind of scripting. There must be something like that because it seems too obvious. Adjustable zone boundaries and loadable masks are nice features but that's not what I'm asking about.

--- End quote ---

Modern oscilloscopes are pretty flexible when it comes to triggering (although I'm not aware of any scope that has "hundreds" of trigger types :)), so it might be helpful if you could provide an example of a waveform that you think would be difficult or impossible to trigger on. 

I'm not aware of any "scripting" for triggers, but on some of our scopes we do allow the user to trigger on a sequence of events:

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/webhelp/MXO4_HTML_UserManual_en/Content/66d463be244c466b.htm

--- End quote ---

Agree.

Siglent also have logic triggers, qualified triggers, zone triggering (where we take any trigger and enhance it with go/no go zones).
All of these advanced trigger types (except zone that starts with SDS2000X+/XHD  series) are present even in cheapest SDS800.
And add on protocol triggers on top of that.
And all of it is maybe 10 pages to read... Hardly more work than learning scripting language.

I have no problems triggering on something specific with scopes I have (Keysight, several 12 bit Siglents and several Picos) provided I know what to look for.
On Picoscopes I miss protocol triggers though.

As I said, if you are trying to verify clock for instance, you can simply use mask mode (because signal is very simple and repetitive) and just let it run. If you have no violation in some time (you decide what certainty you need, so it might be few hours or few days..) you are good.

But if scope has good measurements and statistics, even without Jitter/Eye packages, you can gather statistics on  timing parameters, overshoot, risetimes, Cycle to Cycle jitter...  And have a look at histograms to see how it behaves... And today you have that even with SDS800xHD ...

Performa01:

--- Quote from: RAPo on March 22, 2024, 08:35:05 am ---
The manuals nowadays describe the trigger itself (e.g. for the SDS800X: Interval Trigger: Trigger when the time difference between the neighbouring rising or falling edges meets the time limit
condition) but not when to use it.

After this post, my mind wandered away. Wouldn't it be nice to have a trigger trilogy (either in book, PDF or video like in the MXO5):


* Trigger 101: describing the real basics (trigger type, trigger mode, trigger level, when to use  both rising and falling edge triggering, interplay with holdoff, etc.)
* Trigger SPY: a procedural approach to triggering based on a real-world question, as I indicated as an example, and some more high level: do we just capture data, trigger later  (because the new scopes are so good at it) or does it pay off to think a bit more of the problem and use a trigger and then do a further analysis. A bit like the opening discussion in this video:


* The art of triggering: the wisdom of the masters in all detail (like in your answer, or maybe there are more clever solutions like filtering the initial 100kHz away) centred around the signal+question at hand.
--- End quote ---
Something like this would probably never be complete and several experts from different application areas could contribute to the tipps & tricks ("Art of Triggering") section.

Maybe someone (or even myself) will make a first attempt on this eventually, but until then you could have a look at the existing material:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1371778/#msg1371778

Reply #2, the trigger section in the first attached document covers ome of your questions and gives examples for all the basic trigger types.

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