New Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope based on Xilinx Zynq-7000 SoC architecture

[tautech]

Just got my SDS1202X-E 2 weeks ago.   

MatCat becomes HappyCat

We'll all be happier still when the new FW is released. Siglent told me this week, let's hope it is. 

[pascal_sweden]

Bringing this original thread for the Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope back into the picture.

I have updated the title with SDS1202X-E as this is actually the only model in the SDS1000X-E series.

[rf-loop]

Bringing this original thread for the Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope back into the picture.

I have updated the title with SDS1202X-E as this is actually the only model in the SDS1000X-E series.

China have nearly 1400M peoples and  US and EU togther have around 840M.
In China there is SDS1072X-E, SDS1102X-E and SDS1202X-E. (Information is based on the manufacturer's official website in China 16.07.2017)
So, it is still SDS1000X-E serie.

Here in some external countries markets is, at least for now, available only one model: SDS1202X-E

[coppice]

Bringing this original thread for the Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope back into the picture.

I have updated the title with SDS1202X-E as this is actually the only model in the SDS1000X-E series.

China have nearly 1400M peoples and  US and EU togther have around 840M.
In China there is SDS1072X-E, SDS1102X-E and SDS1202X-E. (Information is based on the manufacturer's official website in China 16.07.2017)
So, it is still SDS1000X-E serie.

Here in some external countries markets is, at least for now, available only one model: SDS1202X-E

I think that page is just their original abandoned marketing plan, along with much higher prices than they finally set. I think the only model in China is the 200MHz one.

[rf-loop]

Bringing this original thread for the Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope back into the picture.

I have updated the title with SDS1202X-E as this is actually the only model in the SDS1000X-E series.

China have nearly 1400M peoples and  US and EU togther have around 840M.
In China there is SDS1072X-E, SDS1102X-E and SDS1202X-E. (Information is based on the manufacturer's official website in China 16.07.2017)
So, it is still SDS1000X-E serie.

Here in some external countries markets is, at least for now, available only one model: SDS1202X-E

I think that page is just their original abandoned marketing plan, along with much higher prices than they finally set. I think the only model in China is the 200MHz one.

Also SDS1000X-C

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.20141002.4.2e538ffeqpdnD8&scm=1007.10009.70205.100200300000001&id=550667103914&pvid=4b0a921c-2185-406b-b517-2fd189df0f82

Look these some ( ding yang classroom ) images in this Taobao sales ad

[coppice]

Also SDS1000X-C

The SDS1000X-C is an older design than the -E.

[rf-loop]

Also SDS1000X-C

The SDS1000X-C is an older design than the -E.

Fun that it also have 1M FFT.

[pascal_sweden]

Look these some ( ding yang classroom ) images in this Taobao sales ad

The Siglent Engineering Program

[tautech]

SDS1202X-E firmware update
Version 5.1.3.13
5.4 Mb

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip

Changelog
1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
2. Removed channel input impedance of 50?
3. Added external load setting to FFT menu. If using an external load, amplitudes can be shown in dBm
4. Repaired intermittent lock up after enabling decoding function
5. Optimized translation for German and English menus and pop messages
6. Removed Option label from UI
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
8. Added telnet(port 5024) and open socket(port 5025) for LAN communication
9. Fixed blank zoom bug. With both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and a zoom of 500 ns/div, the zoom window would blank.
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.
11. Fixed average mode. After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display changed to the last waveform, rather than maintaining the averaged waveform
12. Remain the final message for firmware update until rebooted
13. Fixed the issue with Chinese language setting after self- calibration.
14. Fixed the CAN source bug. If the source selected was CANH or CANL, decode would not work correctly.
15. Decreased waveform jitter with active measurements or math with horizontal delay out of the screen.
16. Added progress information while saving CSV files.
17. Fixed the Cycle RMS measurement does not update when the input signal changes
18. Keep “Print” picture type in accordance with the type selected from “Save/Recall”
19. Fixed user file renaming of a previously saved file.
20. Enabled decoding for time bases above 20ms/div.
21. Disable menu if cursors, measurement and math is disabled
22. Finished updates to support EasyScopeX and Labview driver.
23. Optimized channel self-calibration

[karkoon]

Yay!


Typed with thumbs.

[rf-loop]

SDS1202X-E firmware update
Version 5.1.3.13
5.4 Mb

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip

Changelog
1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
2. Removed channel input impedance of 50?
3. Added external load setting to FFT menu. If using an external load, amplitudes can be shown in dBm
4. Repaired intermittent lock up after enabling decoding function
5. Optimized translation for German and English menus and pop messages
6. Removed Option label from UI
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
8. Added telnet(port 5024) and open socket(port 5025) for LAN communication
9. Fixed blank zoom bug. With both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and a zoom of 500 ns/div, the zoom window would blank.
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.
11. Fixed average mode. After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display changed to the last waveform, rather than maintaining the averaged waveform
12. Remain the final message for firmware update until rebooted
13. Fixed the issue with Chinese language setting after self- calibration.
14. Fixed the CAN source bug. If the source selected was CANH or CANL, decode would not work correctly.
15. Decreased waveform jitter with active measurements or math with horizontal delay out of the screen.
16. Added progress information while saving CSV files.
17. Fixed the Cycle RMS measurement does not update when the input signal changes
18. Keep “Print” picture type in accordance with the type selected from “Save/Recall”
19. Fixed user file renaming of a previously saved file.
20. Enabled decoding for time bases above 20ms/div.
21. Disable menu if cursors, measurement and math is disabled
22. Finished updates to support EasyScopeX and Labview driver.

And
23. Optimized channel self-calibration

[borjam]

I think that page is just their original abandoned marketing plan, along with much higher prices than they finally set. I think the only model in China is the 200MHz one.

I think it makes a lot of sense and it's also good news.

It is quite crazy to offer many optional features for an instrument aimed at hobbyists. The purchase process is not the same
as it is at a company. Releasing a single model with all the extensions enabled makes everything much simpler. Yes, developing
decoding software costs money, but they will recover the costs if they just happen to sell tons of units.

And it's good news because competition is getting fierce and I imagine that Rigol will follow suite. After all, they are virtually
selling an "all you can eat" model with the easy to hack DS1000Z. And I guess that they have reviewed the sales figures and
realized that, options or not, the thing sells pretty well thanks in part to the hackability factor.

I imagine (maybe it's wishful thinking) that this move from Siglent will compel the competition to sell at least a model or
two simply priced oscilloscopes mostly aimed at amateur usage.

By the way, I own a DS1074Z and I have purchased a SDS1202X-E mostly out of curiosity. I think they have done a pretty good
job. The firmware and user interfaces in both would certainly enjoy some maturing, but who could dream of getting this level of
performance at a comparable price 10 years ago?

[rf-loop]

I think that page is just their original abandoned marketing plan, along with much higher prices than they finally set. I think the only model in China is the 200MHz one.

I think it makes a lot of sense and it's also good news.

It is quite crazy to offer many optional features for an instrument aimed at hobbyists. The purchase process is not the same
as it is at a company. Releasing a single model with all the extensions enabled makes everything much simpler. Yes, developing
decoding software costs money, but they will recover the costs if they just happen to sell tons of units.

And it's good news because competition is getting fierce and I imagine that Rigol will follow suite. After all, they are virtually
selling an "all you can eat" model with the easy to hack DS1000Z. And I guess that they have reviewed the sales figures and
realized that, options or not, the thing sells pretty well thanks in part to the hackability factor.

I imagine (maybe it's wishful thinking) that this move from Siglent will compel the competition to sell at least a model or
two simply priced oscilloscopes mostly aimed at amateur usage.

By the way, I own a DS1074Z and I have purchased a SDS1202X-E mostly out of curiosity. I think they have done a pretty good
job. The firmware and user interfaces in both would certainly enjoy some maturing, but who could dream of getting this level of
performance at a comparable price 10 years ago?

Lets think about marketing and lets think only one segment (what is poorly understooded in China)
So lets think segment name hobbyists and  some not highest grade sub segment there.

Trivial simplified example.
We have two equal oskcilloscope if think overall building quality and same total functions features.
A is hackable and B is not.  Both have same price.

B is not hackable and there is options 1 and 2 and 3  all working out from carton and price 500.
A is hackable and price 500 without options.  With hack you get same options 1, 2 and 3. But if you buy options each cost 100 - in price list.
. manufacturer have designed it for hack but of course do not tell it public. But  leaks it as designed by leaking some winks how to hack ... and they keep this hacking show on and continuing.

Both are functionally same, same quality, same features.

Just clever marketing and A wins markets just  hands down.  (or then not)


Every single people can understand that company who make A can stop (enough easy) hackability just if they want do it... but this they do not want do so that  buyers... they feel they win something and also it is not so boring as this equipment what do not give this hack hobby for keep fun and discussions continuing.. is this possible, is that possible do this FW version work for hack, do I need downgrade  and who have tried this and that and I have done this and that, just for fun as what ever hobby.

This is just carefully designed marketing trick after hit this marketing trick accidentally in history and find how well it works for boom sales up.
Also there need do fake cases what looks like they try prevent hack....  oh well, who is so simple that believe this. If they want stop hack is is fewline of code and it ends. (of course difficult hacks perhaps still possible but this don not need care... no one do it exept in dreams)

Now all company can do same. Now competite who is more hackable...  perhaps need rise hackable options prices so that hackers feel more win.  Who is winner, manufacturer or hacker. I believe in final line manufacturer win money but hacker win feel that he have win - andthia last one is important.

[jcbottorff]

Has anybody measured the USB and Ethernet (VXI-11) transfer speeds of this scope? I'm fiddling with some software control of lower cost oscilloscopes, and have been disappointed in the transfer speeds on my Rigol DS2000A series scope. Even though the DS2000A has a 100 mbps ethernet interface, real transfer rates are only 5% of the wire speed (screen dump) and even worse for waveform capture (about 200KB/sec). The USB transfer speeds are a little bit better, like screen dumps get up to a little over a megabyte/sec, which is still pretty slow for a wire than can move 35-40 MBytes/sec. I have my own VXI-11 and USBTMC protocol code, and have played with a variety of blocks sizes, without much improvement.

I'l like to see a scope with transfer speeds a significant fraction of the wire speed. Actually, I'd like to see a knobless low cost scope (the analog front end and the digitizer in a small box) with a USB 3.1 (10 gbps now) or USB-C Thunderbolt 3 interface (40 gbps), and good software. 

[oleh]

Has anybody measured the USB and Ethernet (VXI-11) transfer speeds of this scope? I'm fiddling with some software control of lower cost oscilloscopes, and have been disappointed in the transfer speeds on my Rigol DS2000A series scope. Even though the DS2000A has a 100 mbps ethernet interface, real transfer rates are only 5% of the wire speed (screen dump) and even worse for waveform capture (about 200KB/sec). The USB transfer speeds are a little bit better, like screen dumps get up to a little over a megabyte/sec, which is still pretty slow for a wire than can move 35-40 MBytes/sec. I have my own VXI-11 and USBTMC protocol code, and have played with a variety of blocks sizes, without much improvement.

I'l like to see a scope with transfer speeds a significant fraction of the wire speed. Actually, I'd like to see a knobless low cost scope (the analog front end and the digitizer in a small box) with a USB 3.1 (10 gbps now) or USB-C Thunderbolt 3 interface (40 gbps), and good software.

I'm 100%  agree with what you are saying.  The only way I how to solve it - to put open source software on this, without doubts, excellent hardware. Like Linux was put on PC 26 years ago. As I found from some off-topic device, it uses up to 90% of open source code anyway. I was able to identify matching sources based on a firmware eyeballing.
I don't know if the community was able to open what is hidden in the Siglent firmware.

[skander36]

SDS1202X-E firmware update
Version 5.1.3.13
5.4 Mb

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip

Changelog

And
23. Optimized channel self-calibration

HI !
Sorry to say but this was not solved . On my scope the auto setup is working only  from second try in a 70-80% cases . If this is optimizing I thing the former version was disastrous ... 
On my previous scope Rigol 1054Z this was never happened . It took longer but never fail . I wish that will be the same on Siglent .
And btw. after firmware update the auto-setup was not functioned at all until I do a self calibration .
Overall the software quality is way better on Rigol 1000-Z  than Siglent 1202X-E . The same as with construction quality (LCD and passive components used)  . The UI on Siglent even it seem faster than Rigol it is more erratic in that it has some weird latches . . .
Facts : In two months  of using Rigol only one time UI was stuck (solved with just a push of one button) , but after a day with Siglent I was needed to unplug it for three times (one of them after a UART decoding attempt when press the auto setup key, bug that is mentioned as solved in last firmware update list).
- When I try to change different memory capture option nothing is happen on the screen . On Rigol when change from 12K to 12M there was a very clear difference .
-what is ERES ? If this refer to Enhanced RESolution  why is so slow . Compared with Rigol HIRES (12bit) , it's a joke .
- Strong points for siglent are BW - 200 MHz , color temp. function (good looking but quite useless), FFT , speed of the wfs updates and automotive decoding options .

Another crash point (reproducible) is when I try to do a FFT in split screen on internal test signal (calibration 1KHz) after push the auto-setup button the scope became unresponsive . No reaction of none of the buttons nor power button . Only unplug from power .
Need to mention that in the meantime on the upper region (which show the real signal) the signal is not freeze , but continue to oscillate .

Can someone verify the situations described ?

[asmi]

Every single people can understand that company who make A can stop (enough easy) hackability just if they want do it... but this they do not want do so that  buyers... they feel they win something and also it is not so boring as this equipment what do not give this hack hobby for keep fun and discussions continuing.. is this possible, is that possible do this FW version work for hack, do I need downgrade  and who have tried this and that and I have done this and that, just for fun as what ever hobby.

This is just carefully designed marketing trick after hit this marketing trick accidentally in history and find how well it works for boom sales up.
Also there need do fake cases what looks like they try prevent hack....  oh well, who is so simple that believe this. If they want stop hack is is fewline of code and it ends. (of course difficult hacks perhaps still possible but this don not need care... no one do it exept in dreams)

Now all company can do same. Now competite who is more hackable...  perhaps need rise hackable options prices so that hackers feel more win.  Who is winner, manufacturer or hacker. I believe in final line manufacturer win money but hacker win feel that he have win - andthia last one is important.

There is another subtle advantage for the company that makes unofficially hackable stuff - it can save money on warranty as it voids whenever one does the hack.

[ebastler]

There is another subtle advantage for the company that makes unofficially hackable stuff - it can save money on warranty as it voids whenever one does the hack.

Yes, a company could use that excuse to reduce warranty claims. Regarding Rigol however, which is our prime example for "hackable, and they might have left that door open intentionally": I have not read of any instance where Rigol refused a warranty claim because options were installed via "hacked" keys. No need to spread FUD here.

[borjam]

Now, something curious about my unit. Upon power up there is some drift in the vertical amplifiers, especially for the second channel.





After an hour powered up it gets much better (note, I have the habit of powering up equipment for an hour before doing a self calibration or any meaningful measure).

[Fungus]

Now, something curious about my unit. Upon power up there is some drift in the vertical amplifiers, especially for the second channel.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

After an hour powered up it gets much better (note, I have the habit of powering up equipment for an hour before doing a self calibration or any meaningful measure).

(Attachment Link)

That's probably normal, it happens on my Rigol, too.

(but it gets better after about five minutes, not an hour...)

You always have to let it warm up before calibration. Also calibrate a few times a year to compensate for seasonal temperature changes.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

At least it's quite zippy not a snail, the Rigols are insufferable and (it seems) do that too

[Fungus]

At least it's quite zippy not a snail, the Rigols are insufferable and (it seems) do that too

Funny you should mention that.

I just made a video showing Dave dicking around with the vertical controls on some 'scopes. The Rigol doesn't look slower than the Siglent to me.   

The Instek, OTOH... wow!

Video here: https://streamable.com/wd38s

[boggis the cat]

I just made a video showing Dave dicking around with the vertical controls on some 'scopes. The Rigol doesn't look slower than the Siglent to me.   

The Instek, OTOH... wow!

Rigols are painful to use certain functions on due to the very laggy UI.  Just moving the signals around on screen can be frustrating, and trying to align measurement cursors is annoying.  An instrument that struggles to respond to user input at default settings is poorly designed, IMO.

Hopefully the newer models (e.g. the DS1202Z-E) have faster processors to make the UI at least acceptably responsive.

I have only come across a handful of GW Instek 'scopes, but they seemed a lot better than the Rigols for responsiveness.  IIRC one of the worst 'scopes for this, given the asking price, was a low-end LeCroy badged unit – an early Siglent?  Some of the newer mid-range Tektronix units are pretty poor, too.  I don't understand why a responsive UI isn't a minimal fitness for purpose requirement.

[skander36]

At least it's quite zippy not a snail, the Rigols are insufferable and (it seems) do that too

Funny you should mention that.

I just made a video showing Dave dicking around with the vertical controls on some 'scopes. The Rigol doesn't look slower than the Siglent to me.   

The Instek, OTOH... wow!

Video here: https://streamable.com/wd38s

In the movie the frames with GW Instek are faster than with the Rigols , I mean that that they look pitched up . The hand movements are unnaturally .
You should put Keysight 1000 (from this category) series to show how responsive must be a scope.
Rigol is laggy indeed and the new model 5000 is the laggiest I have .
The Rigol 2102E is far more responsive with the faster update screen than 5000 series . In fact seem to be a little speddy than SDS 1202X-E.

[nctnico]

Don't get too hung up on responsiveness alone. It is also the user interface itself which is good or bad. Needing to press 10 buttons in a fast UI is worse than pressing 2 buttons in a slow UI. The GW Insteks have buttons beside and below the screen. This makes these scopes super fast to operate compared to oscilloscopes which have to cram all the menus in a single row of buttons. A touch-screen with a touch-screen optimised UI is even quicker to operate.