More New Siglents

[Siglent America]

PM sent.

[eas]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

What do you think that ratio will tell you?  The best practices of a decade or more ago may (often) no longer hold.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I personally don't know. I do believe that we brought in additional software people about the time we opened our USA office. So I believe it is something that we have been in the process of improving and evolving. I do know that more than half of our engineers are at least Master's level people.

Last I looked at a list, our Siglent factory was looking to hire many additional engineers - both hardware and software.

I seriously hope this also involves some UX designers and Human Factors specialists, because judging from what I've seen on Siglent equipment (i.e. SDS1000CxL, SDG1000, SDS2000) there is quite a bit of room for improvement (and most software developers are awful UX designers).

I also can tell you that top management does listen to us in the field - probably better than anywhere I have been involved with in years.

Good to hear. Maybe you then suggest that Siglent improves its communications, because leaving customers waiting with no date in sight for getting a product fixed that should already be working out of the box is pretty poor customer service. You should be much more open and proactive, i.e. not leaving for the customer to find out that there is a delay but providing regular status updates, i.e. in the support area of the Siglent website (and while you're at it, how about cleaning up the download area and getting rid of that terrible font from the website and Siglent devices).

Another part of customer service is to provide some radmap as to how long a product will be supported (hardware/software), which for test equipment is quite an important detail.

[GlowingGhoul]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

What do you think that ratio will tell you? 

That quality control takes absolute precedence, as it should for any test equipment company. That priority on quality is not present in any Chinese TE manufacturer from what I've seen. Despite the best wishful thinking, there's a reason cheap is cheap. The output of these companies would seem to indicate the largest R&D expense is for someone to reverse engineer existing equipment and approximate the functionality.

[Hydrawerk]

Will this New Siglent be also sold as LeCroy? 

[Hydrawerk]

http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332
http://siglentamerica.com/download/image/SDS1000X/4.jpg

[Wuerstchenhund]

Will this New Siglent be also sold as LeCroy? 

Probably, this might become the new WaveAce 1500 or 2500 (or whatever name they will come up with).

[rf-loop]

I also can tell you that top management does listen to us in the field - probably better than anywhere I have been involved with in years.

I feel here same and this is one big reason why I want walk tomorrow with Siglent - without prejudice that sometimes has been also difficult moments. I see, however, that the Siglent develop and improve themselves strongly. And they listen opinions and problems.
Example last case where one Function/Arb generator model have "hidden" problem (randomly missing pulses in some situations) they take it really seriously after they get enough information about problem.  It was very nice to see how fast  they analyze it and soon find what cause this. And also keep me informed about findings.  Quite fast they launch FW what 100% repair this problem.  But beta tests need do better before launch...  and I believe every case they leaqrn more. Everyone make mistakes but who is humble enough to learn about these and try correct his mistakes  he can become a champion.

[pascal_sweden]

Here is an idea for Siglent:

Identify skilled experts on this forum, and nominate them for an official Beta tester program.

After careful nomination, official Beta testers get free candy like factory sealed Siglent scopes and other shrinkwrapped test gear

I am not saying that this should apply to the high-end models, but it could apply to the sub 300-500 USD range.

Come with a structured approach to report issues in a uniform way. Setup a bug tracking system for the official Beta testers, like ClearDDTS, Bugzilla. Follow up major findings, suggestions for improvements, UX issues and showstopper issues monthly in a limited group conference call.

With all these skilled experts and enthousiasts testing your products, you will win back the investment in no time. Much cheaper than hiring Chinese test engineers

I am willing to sign up as an official Beta tester to show the good example! =)

[tautech]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

Who knows what the Roll button does until we see one in the flesh. 

I expect it will bring up a menu selection (possibly multi-level?) at the base of the display like the SDS2000 series.

Further to this, thanks to the image linked by Hydrawerk it seems there might be dual functionality of many of the buttons on the front panel. 
http://siglentamerica.com/download/image/SDS1000X/4.jpg
Enlarge it to see blue arrows on several buttons.

[tautech]

Here is an idea for Siglent........

Siglent already has a few members on this forum that have the opportunity to get pre-realease units AND provide feedback of faults/bugs before market release.

After that Siglents (and reps) open involvement in this forum demonstrate how much they value members feedback alongside their own internal processes. The forum provides VERY FAST 2 way communication that Siglent wishes to promote and continue, this I am quite sure of.

[Siglent]

I Agree, there should be a four channel model, but that seams unlikely based on the pictured front panel.

Seems so.

I guess the inputs for any future MSO option will be inside the rectangular area right from the USB port.

Isn't this what Rigol has done for 1054Z and now there is a Plus version coming with MSO.

Yet hidden at the bottom of the Chinese datasheet: SDS-1000X-LA and seems like its 16 channels. 

7 months without any updates

I've asked exactly this a couple of times in July....and now it's August. 

We're sorry for this, we expect to be release SDS2000 Series new firmware in November.

[Wuerstchenhund]

7 months without any updates

I've asked exactly this a couple of times in July....and now it's August. 

We're sorry for this, we expect to be release SDS2000 Series new firmware in November.

So first July, then August, now November. Looks like Siglent has a strong grip on its development processes ... NOT 

And I wouldn't hold my breath that come November we'll see any update.

[Siglent America]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

Dave,
The SDS2000 has only one selection key under its Horizontal menu (YT, XY, Roll) so we added a Roll button to the SDS1000X Horizontal section, moved the XY function to the Display menu and removed the Horizontal Menu key.

Steve

[nctnico]

That is an interesting choice. On most DSOs however the horizontal menu also allows to change other settings like the trigger time mark reference position (I usually have it at the left size of the screen *) , course (1-2-5) or fine steps for the seconds/div knob, etc.

*) In many cases you are only interested in the part of the signal after the trigger and not before.

[Siglent America]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes, on the SDS2000 scopes the XY/Roll/YT selection is the only choice under that menu.

Steve

[nctnico]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes. But if you change the time/div knob the trigger point also moves because the zero reference stays at the center of the screen. The difference is that DSOs from Tektronix and Keysight let you set the zero reference to somewhere else than the center of the screen. On my old Tektronix TDS500 and 700 series I could put the zero reference anywhere, my Keysight DS7104 lets met choose between left, center or right.

[Siglent America]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes. But if you change the time/div knob the trigger point also moves because the zero reference stays at the center of the screen. The difference is that DSOs from Tektronix and Keysight let you set the zero reference to somewhere else than the center of the screen. On my old Tektronix TDS500 and 700 series I could put the zero reference anywhere, my Keysight DS7104 lets met choose between left, center or right.

Yes, you are correct. If the trigger point is anywhere but the center of the screen and then you change the time base setting, the trigger point stays with that same trigger point in the memory and moves with it. You can jump back to having the trigger point in the center of the screen at any time by pushing the Horizontal Position knob. When the time base is changed - while the trigger point is centered - it will stay in the center, even if the time base is changed.

If enough people would like to see this changed in the future then we could certainly want to look at doing that.

[nctnico]

It is a standard feature on many DSOs so I guess a lot of people already asked for it. It is also not very natural to have the zero reference in the center of the screen because usually you are only interested in what comes after the trigger.

And new SDS2000 firmware in November?? 

[tautech]

It is also not very natural to have the zero reference in the center of the screen because usually you are only interested in what comes after the trigger.

While your above point is acknowledged and understood by many, this is the standard Trigger point configuration in DSO's of this class and unlikely to be changed by manufacturers.

However to have the option of a far left, center or right trigger point in the horizontal menu is a nice feature that shouldn't be hard to implement in FW.

And new SDS2000 firmware in November?? 

You kindy have contibuted to Siglent for FW improvements and we are grateful for this, but November it is, accept this please. You are not the only user/owner dismayed the next FW is taking so long.

We look forward to your review of the improvements it will bring in your SDS2204 thread. 

Edit, Spelling.

[tautech]

Can't put my finger on it, but still looks a bit "cheap"

Does that really matter or like many are you hooked by bling? 


What matters is the quality of the internal HW and how features implemented, this we will hopefully know in the next few weeks.
 

[Lightages]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

[tautech]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

Agreed, but with the knowledge that many members are intelligent descerning buyers also with considerable electronic knowledge, product looks shouldn't be part of intelligent choice, only specs should, shouldn't they?
Or are most like sheep and just follow a leader.

No reference to Dave intended.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

Quite frankly I like the design, I think the scope looks nice. It's design somewhat reminds me of a medical device (i.e. a heart monitor), but I think the exterior is absolutely fine for what at the end of the day is a bottom-of-the-barrel scope. Heck, it looks a thousand times less more expensive than anything Owon has ever made, and also much better than the old Siglent SDS1000CxL series where it's look was one of the last things people look at when buying a $300 scope.

I'd be much more worried about idiosyncrasies in the UI, which I'm sure there will be several.

Update: fixed mixup (thanks Pascal!)

[Lightages]

I am not defending one side or the other. I was just explaining how appearance can affect choices, rational thinkers or not. My strongest personal comment is that it does not look as professional as my SDG1025. I don't think it looks bad, just less professional.