More New Siglents

[tautech]

For those that haven't checked the Siglent Chinese website lately:

The SDS1000X series

http://www.siglent.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1001&tid=1&T=2

[EEVblog]

Can't put my finger on it, but still looks a bit "cheap"

[EEVblog]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

[pickle9000]

A pdf of the page in English.

[Lightages]

For me the appearance is a bit less professional than the SDG1025 I have. What I am getting tired of? BEIGE

Why does anything that needs to appear professional have to be BEIGE?

[tautech]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

Who knows what the Roll button does until we see one in the flesh. 

I expect it will bring up a menu selection (possibly multi-level?) at the base of the display like the SDS2000 series.

[rolycat]

For me the appearance is a bit less professional than the SDG1025 I have. What I am getting tired of? BEIGE

Why does anything that needs to appear professional have to be BEIGE?

LeCroy can help out there. And not just with scopes:

[Lightages]

I would have paid $10 more to have that black case!

[android]

This is what annoys me about glossy brochures.
What information does this table convey? ...that I can pay extra for a couple of letters after the model name? Why?

[EEVblog]

This is what annoys me about glossy brochures.
What information does this table convey? ...that I can pay extra for a couple of letters after the model name? Why?

-S is probably for the "Source". i.e. the AFG option. That's real hardware you have to pay extra for, not just a software option.

[rolycat]

This is what annoys me about glossy brochures.
What information does this table convey? ...that I can pay extra for a couple of letters after the model name? Why?

-S is probably for the "Source". i.e. the AFG option. That's real hardware you have to pay extra for, not just a software option.

Siglent America now has information about these scopes, and mentions:

25MHz DDS arbitrary waveform generator, built-in 10 kinds of waveforms (SDS1000X-S models)

[nctnico]

A few remarks:
- only 2 channels? 
- no logic inputs?

How is this going to compete with Rigol and who is going to buy it anyway after the SDS2000 debacle? The SDS2000 is still incomplete and buggy and it has been 7 months since the last firmware update.

[android]

Hmmm ... If they add an extra column called AWG containing "yes" or "no" then I'll put my happy hat back on. 

[Deathwish]

For me the appearance is a bit less professional than the SDG1025 I have. What I am getting tired of? BEIGE

Why does anything that needs to appear professional have to be BEIGE?

LeCroy can help out there. And not just with scopes:

Pfft get funky, go ghetto, break out the fun .

[Wuerstchenhund]

A few remarks:
- only 2 channels? 

I Agree, there should be a four channel model, but that seams unlikely based on the pictured front panel.

- no logic inputs?

I guess the inputs for any future MSO option will be inside the rectangular area right from the USB port.

How is this going to compete with Rigol and who is going to buy it anyway after the SDS2000 debacle? The SDS2000 is still incomplete and buggy and it has been 7 months since the last firmware update.

Indeed. I have no doubt that this scope will be made of decent hardware, however Siglent's track record in terms of firmware has been terrible so far. 7 months without any updates is a clear sign that Siglent has essentially given up on the SDS2000 and moved on to new products, which I'm sure will again released prematurely with tons of bugs of which some may get fixed later, all while breaking other functionality.

I'm not a big fan of Rigol kit and Rigol does have their fair share of firmware issues themselves, however they seem much more active in sorting the worst problems out than Siglent.

[rf-loop]

A few remarks:
- only 2 channels? 

I Agree, there should be a four channel model, but that seams unlikely based on the pictured front panel.

- no logic inputs?

I guess the inputs for any future MSO option will be inside the rectangular area right from the USB port.

How is this going to compete with Rigol and who is going to buy it anyway after the SDS2000 debacle? The SDS2000 is still incomplete and buggy and it has been 7 months since the last firmware update.

Indeed. I have no doubt that this scope will be made of decent hardware, however Siglent's track record in terms of firmware has been terrible so far. 7 months without any updates is a clear sign that Siglent has essentially given up on the SDS2000 and moved on to new products, which I'm sure will again released prematurely with tons of bugs of which some may get fixed later, all while breaking other functionality.

I'm not a big fan of Rigol kit and Rigol does have their fair share of firmware issues themselves, however they seem much more active in sorting the worst problems out than Siglent.

Not long time ago I ask SDS2000 new FW.  Previously they told June if I remember right) but now they told it is delayed but they are hard working with it. (I do not know if they have meet some unexpected poblems or they have started first try correction on the correction and then find some blocks  need write new more deeply from scratch... who knows.  I hope this case teach them.... but this case is extremely expensive training. I know more cheap ways...)

[tautech]

I Agree, there should be a four channel model, but that seams unlikely based on the pictured front panel.

Seems so.

I guess the inputs for any future MSO option will be inside the rectangular area right from the USB port.

Isn't this what Rigol has done for 1054Z and now there is a Plus version coming with MSO.

Yet hidden at the bottom of the Chinese datasheet: SDS-1000X-LA and seems like its 16 channels. 

7 months without any updates

I've asked exactly this a couple of times in July....and now it's August. 

[tautech]

Previously they told June if I remember right) but now they told it is delayed but they are hard working with it. (I do not know if they have meet some unexpected poblems or they have started first try correction on the correction and then find some blocks  need write new more deeply from scratch... who knows.

nctnico has been in a dialogue with Siglent China and America kindly working through some bugs, so he's to blame. 
But seriously they have taken their time, let's hope they have it sorted because it seems the 1000X series shares a very similar graphical UI to the SDS2000 series.

[tszaboo]

Can't put my finger on it, but still looks a bit "cheap"

I think it is a combination of the GDR (east Germany) grade gooseshit color (they even had a trademark on it I think) and the non-uniform light behind the buttons.
More solid color for the buttons and features would not hurt. The screen looks nice.

[nctnico]

Can't put my finger on it, but still looks a bit "cheap"

It looks a bit like Keysight's entry scopes. Put it next to a 3000T. The black bevel is just there to make the screen look bigger than it is.

[Siglent America]

I would agree that the SDS2000 firmware took longer than many of us would have liked to address most of the bugs. From what we have seen here in the USA over the past several months, it has been doing well in the current version with a few small quirks left to fix still.

The last I heard (and I will check with the factory on this) is that the next edition FW should be released in the Oct-Nov time frame. Part of the reason that it was pushed back is that we incorporated some features and improvements given to us by customers.

In my biased opinion, the SDS1000X is a beautiful scope and customers that have seen it at shows have seemed to agree. I have strong reason to believe that the firmware will be much more mature than was the SDS2000 when it was released.

Steve

[pascal_sweden]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

[Siglent America]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

I personally don't know. I do believe that we brought in additional software people about the time we opened our USA office. So I believe it is something that we have been in the process of improving and evolving. I do know that more than half of our engineers are at least Master's level people.

Last I looked at a list, our Siglent factory was looking to hire many additional engineers - both hardware and software. I also can tell you that top management does listen to us in the field - probably better than anywhere I have been involved with in years.

Steve

[pascal_sweden]

I like both Siglent and Rigol. I realize that there have been software issues, but the hardware as such is really good, and I am convinced that both companies will eventually get to the level where new discovered bugs can be fixed within shorter time periods.

There is a lot of enthousiasm about Chinese test equipment in this community, and it is very exciting to follow up the new product launches. Both Siglent and Rigol keep on amazing

Yes, there is competition in this market! But I believe there is space for everybody to make good profit. And competition can also be seen as a good thing, it keeps the product roadmaps going, and drives the whole test business forward.

[nctnico]

I would agree that the SDS2000 firmware took longer than many of us would have liked to address most of the bugs. From what we have seen here in the USA over the past several months, it has been doing well in the current version with a few small quirks left to fix still.

Did you get trial versions of new firmware for the SDS2000 or are you referring to the current publicly available version? If it's the latter I can't imagine people being happy with their SDS2000 because so many features are missing or not working right.

The last I heard (and I will check with the factory on this) is that the next edition FW should be released in the Oct-Nov time frame.

I hope I can restrain myself for that long. I'm looking for a different occasional-use-bring-along scope and if I have one before the SDS2000 has decent firmware it probably goes out of the window from the 3rd floor. It's not even worth the trouble trying to sell it.

[Siglent America]

PM sent.

[eas]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

What do you think that ratio will tell you?  The best practices of a decade or more ago may (often) no longer hold.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I personally don't know. I do believe that we brought in additional software people about the time we opened our USA office. So I believe it is something that we have been in the process of improving and evolving. I do know that more than half of our engineers are at least Master's level people.

Last I looked at a list, our Siglent factory was looking to hire many additional engineers - both hardware and software.

I seriously hope this also involves some UX designers and Human Factors specialists, because judging from what I've seen on Siglent equipment (i.e. SDS1000CxL, SDG1000, SDS2000) there is quite a bit of room for improvement (and most software developers are awful UX designers).

I also can tell you that top management does listen to us in the field - probably better than anywhere I have been involved with in years.

Good to hear. Maybe you then suggest that Siglent improves its communications, because leaving customers waiting with no date in sight for getting a product fixed that should already be working out of the box is pretty poor customer service. You should be much more open and proactive, i.e. not leaving for the customer to find out that there is a delay but providing regular status updates, i.e. in the support area of the Siglent website (and while you're at it, how about cleaning up the download area and getting rid of that terrible font from the website and Siglent devices).

Another part of customer service is to provide some radmap as to how long a product will be supported (hardware/software), which for test equipment is quite an important detail.

[GlowingGhoul]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Back in the old days at Motorola they used to have 2 test engineers for every software engineer. How is the ratio at Siglent?

What do you think that ratio will tell you? 

That quality control takes absolute precedence, as it should for any test equipment company. That priority on quality is not present in any Chinese TE manufacturer from what I've seen. Despite the best wishful thinking, there's a reason cheap is cheap. The output of these companies would seem to indicate the largest R&D expense is for someone to reverse engineer existing equipment and approximate the functionality.

[Hydrawerk]

Will this New Siglent be also sold as LeCroy? 

[Hydrawerk]

http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332
http://siglentamerica.com/download/image/SDS1000X/4.jpg

[Wuerstchenhund]

Will this New Siglent be also sold as LeCroy? 

Probably, this might become the new WaveAce 1500 or 2500 (or whatever name they will come up with).

[rf-loop]

I also can tell you that top management does listen to us in the field - probably better than anywhere I have been involved with in years.

I feel here same and this is one big reason why I want walk tomorrow with Siglent - without prejudice that sometimes has been also difficult moments. I see, however, that the Siglent develop and improve themselves strongly. And they listen opinions and problems.
Example last case where one Function/Arb generator model have "hidden" problem (randomly missing pulses in some situations) they take it really seriously after they get enough information about problem.  It was very nice to see how fast  they analyze it and soon find what cause this. And also keep me informed about findings.  Quite fast they launch FW what 100% repair this problem.  But beta tests need do better before launch...  and I believe every case they leaqrn more. Everyone make mistakes but who is humble enough to learn about these and try correct his mistakes  he can become a champion.

[pascal_sweden]

Here is an idea for Siglent:

Identify skilled experts on this forum, and nominate them for an official Beta tester program.

After careful nomination, official Beta testers get free candy like factory sealed Siglent scopes and other shrinkwrapped test gear

I am not saying that this should apply to the high-end models, but it could apply to the sub 300-500 USD range.

Come with a structured approach to report issues in a uniform way. Setup a bug tracking system for the official Beta testers, like ClearDDTS, Bugzilla. Follow up major findings, suggestions for improvements, UX issues and showstopper issues monthly in a limited group conference call.

With all these skilled experts and enthousiasts testing your products, you will win back the investment in no time. Much cheaper than hiring Chinese test engineers

I am willing to sign up as an official Beta tester to show the good example! =)

[tautech]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

Who knows what the Roll button does until we see one in the flesh. 

I expect it will bring up a menu selection (possibly multi-level?) at the base of the display like the SDS2000 series.

Further to this, thanks to the image linked by Hydrawerk it seems there might be dual functionality of many of the buttons on the front panel. 
http://siglentamerica.com/download/image/SDS1000X/4.jpg
Enlarge it to see blue arrows on several buttons.

[tautech]

Here is an idea for Siglent........

Siglent already has a few members on this forum that have the opportunity to get pre-realease units AND provide feedback of faults/bugs before market release.

After that Siglents (and reps) open involvement in this forum demonstrate how much they value members feedback alongside their own internal processes. The forum provides VERY FAST 2 way communication that Siglent wishes to promote and continue, this I am quite sure of.

[Siglent]

I Agree, there should be a four channel model, but that seams unlikely based on the pictured front panel.

Seems so.

I guess the inputs for any future MSO option will be inside the rectangular area right from the USB port.

Isn't this what Rigol has done for 1054Z and now there is a Plus version coming with MSO.

Yet hidden at the bottom of the Chinese datasheet: SDS-1000X-LA and seems like its 16 channels. 

7 months without any updates

I've asked exactly this a couple of times in July....and now it's August. 

We're sorry for this, we expect to be release SDS2000 Series new firmware in November.

[Wuerstchenhund]

7 months without any updates

I've asked exactly this a couple of times in July....and now it's August. 

We're sorry for this, we expect to be release SDS2000 Series new firmware in November.

So first July, then August, now November. Looks like Siglent has a strong grip on its development processes ... NOT 

And I wouldn't hold my breath that come November we'll see any update.

[Siglent America]

A dedicated Roll button?
Where is the horizontal menu button?

Dave,
The SDS2000 has only one selection key under its Horizontal menu (YT, XY, Roll) so we added a Roll button to the SDS1000X Horizontal section, moved the XY function to the Display menu and removed the Horizontal Menu key.

Steve

[nctnico]

That is an interesting choice. On most DSOs however the horizontal menu also allows to change other settings like the trigger time mark reference position (I usually have it at the left size of the screen *) , course (1-2-5) or fine steps for the seconds/div knob, etc.

*) In many cases you are only interested in the part of the signal after the trigger and not before.

[Siglent America]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes, on the SDS2000 scopes the XY/Roll/YT selection is the only choice under that menu.

Steve

[nctnico]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes. But if you change the time/div knob the trigger point also moves because the zero reference stays at the center of the screen. The difference is that DSOs from Tektronix and Keysight let you set the zero reference to somewhere else than the center of the screen. On my old Tektronix TDS500 and 700 series I could put the zero reference anywhere, my Keysight DS7104 lets met choose between left, center or right.

[Siglent America]

The fine adjustment for both the horizontal and vertical scales is accessed by pushing in the S/Div or V/Div knob. To return to the normal default scales you simply push the knob again.

Trigger point can be moved left or right on the screen by moving the horizontal control to move the trigger point (carrot) to wherever you wish.

Yes. But if you change the time/div knob the trigger point also moves because the zero reference stays at the center of the screen. The difference is that DSOs from Tektronix and Keysight let you set the zero reference to somewhere else than the center of the screen. On my old Tektronix TDS500 and 700 series I could put the zero reference anywhere, my Keysight DS7104 lets met choose between left, center or right.

Yes, you are correct. If the trigger point is anywhere but the center of the screen and then you change the time base setting, the trigger point stays with that same trigger point in the memory and moves with it. You can jump back to having the trigger point in the center of the screen at any time by pushing the Horizontal Position knob. When the time base is changed - while the trigger point is centered - it will stay in the center, even if the time base is changed.

If enough people would like to see this changed in the future then we could certainly want to look at doing that.

[nctnico]

It is a standard feature on many DSOs so I guess a lot of people already asked for it. It is also not very natural to have the zero reference in the center of the screen because usually you are only interested in what comes after the trigger.

And new SDS2000 firmware in November?? 

[tautech]

It is also not very natural to have the zero reference in the center of the screen because usually you are only interested in what comes after the trigger.

While your above point is acknowledged and understood by many, this is the standard Trigger point configuration in DSO's of this class and unlikely to be changed by manufacturers.

However to have the option of a far left, center or right trigger point in the horizontal menu is a nice feature that shouldn't be hard to implement in FW.

And new SDS2000 firmware in November?? 

You kindy have contibuted to Siglent for FW improvements and we are grateful for this, but November it is, accept this please. You are not the only user/owner dismayed the next FW is taking so long.

We look forward to your review of the improvements it will bring in your SDS2204 thread. 

Edit, Spelling.

[tautech]

Can't put my finger on it, but still looks a bit "cheap"

Does that really matter or like many are you hooked by bling? 


What matters is the quality of the internal HW and how features implemented, this we will hopefully know in the next few weeks.
 

[Lightages]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

[tautech]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

Agreed, but with the knowledge that many members are intelligent descerning buyers also with considerable electronic knowledge, product looks shouldn't be part of intelligent choice, only specs should, shouldn't they?
Or are most like sheep and just follow a leader.

No reference to Dave intended.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I don't think t is a matter of "bling" but rather matter of cheap looking possibly indicating cheaply made as well or giving a feeling of cheaply made. This is of course not a very scientific way of approaching something, but we are humans and as humans we can't help but react negatively to things that are less appealing. If it looks cheap, we feel less confident in using it whether it is warranted or not. It is just human nature.

Quite frankly I like the design, I think the scope looks nice. It's design somewhat reminds me of a medical device (i.e. a heart monitor), but I think the exterior is absolutely fine for what at the end of the day is a bottom-of-the-barrel scope. Heck, it looks a thousand times less more expensive than anything Owon has ever made, and also much better than the old Siglent SDS1000CxL series where it's look was one of the last things people look at when buying a $300 scope.

I'd be much more worried about idiosyncrasies in the UI, which I'm sure there will be several.

Update: fixed mixup (thanks Pascal!)

[Lightages]

I am not defending one side or the other. I was just explaining how appearance can affect choices, rational thinkers or not. My strongest personal comment is that it does not look as professional as my SDG1025. I don't think it looks bad, just less professional.

[pascal_sweden]

Heck, it looks a thousand times less expensive than anything Owon has ever made, and also much better than the old Siglent SDS1000CxL series where it's look was one of the last things people look at when buying a $300 scope.

I guess you meant a thousand times *more* expensive than anything Owon has ever made.

Or do you really look up to the pristine and professional design of Owon?

[nctnico]

And new SDS2000 firmware in November?? 

You kindy have contibuted to Siglent for FW improvements and we are grateful for this, but November it is, accept this please. You are not the only user/owner dismayed the next FW is taking so long.
We look forward to your review of the improvements it will bring in your SDS2204 thread. 

It would surprise me if I still own the SDS2204 by then since I'm actively looking for a replacement and already found a serious contender. The SDS2204 is now sitting on a shelve doing nothing. From the initial investment of 2k euro 1k euro is already lost (write off) and 1k euro is doing nothing for me.

[Wuerstchenhund]

It would surprise me if I still own the SDS2204 by then since I'm actively looking for a replacement and already found a serious contender.

Just curious, which scope is the contender?

[tautech]

Another hidden on the Siglent USA website:
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332

SDG2000X Series Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators

Looks similar to the SDG5000 series but with lower BW's than the top 5000 series model.

[nctnico]

It would surprise me if I still own the SDS2204 by then since I'm actively looking for a replacement and already found a serious contender.

Just curious, which scope is the contender?

I'm thinking about a small sized Yokogawa. Portability and size are an issue and I don't want to spend too much on it either.

@tautech: I already spotted the SDG2000X generators. Don't need it now but I would consider one if the need arises.

[pascal_sweden]

Based on the Chinese website, the SDS1102X model would have a recommended sales price of 740 EUR.

No pricing available though for the SDS1052X and SDS1072X models.

Although this will be a contender for the Rigol DS1000 series, there seems to be no 4 channel version?

During the past days there have been several updates here about new scopes from Rigol, Siglent, Owon, GW-Instek. Nice timing that they all come with their respective news updates during summer time =)

Many new kids on the block... but unfortunately not the 4-channel wish in the DS2000A series Nope, not yet a DS2074A or a DS2104A. That would have been a nice surprise though!

Some people in the past found out about new upcoming scope models from Rigol, through the German TUV quality product certification:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds2000-series-model-designation/
From these certifications they discovered that Rigol was about to launch some new model numbers.

Are some people here still actively following up registrations from Rigol/Siglent/Owon/etc., to be in front of the major cover news updates?

Here is an example for 2 search queries on Rigol

http://www.certipedia.com/companies/37679/certificates_by_product?additional_title=Digital+Oscilloscope&locale=en&title=Laboratory+Equipment

http://www.certipedia.com/companies/31149/certificates_by_product?additional_title=Digital+Oscilloscope&locale=en&title=Laboratory+Equipment

Does Rigol plan a 200MHz version in the DS1000Z series? =)

Is DS1104ZA the internal product name for the new DS1104Z Plus model?
Maybe they decided to go for "Plus" instead of "A"dvanced.

I guess you can find out similar information through registrations for a CE Mark, or a Community Trade Mark (CTM). Both OHIM and USPTO have online search databases for this.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Just curious, which scope is the contender?

I'm thinking about a small sized Yokogawa. Portability and size are an issue and I don't want to spend too much on it either.

Interesting choice. I assume you're looking at the DL(M)2000 then (based on the fact that there are only two general purpose scope models and the DLM4k is pretty big):

http://tmi.yokogawa.com/gb/products/oscilloscopes/digital-and-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/dlm2000-mso-series/

A couple of years ago I've seen one in the wild. Very nice scope, good screen, and interesting form factor. Although it's pretty expensive (IIRC the DLM2024 variant is around $6k for the basic scope with no options, which is a lot of money for a 200MHz 2.5GSa/s scope).

If you buy it please do a review!

[Lukas]

Another hidden on the Siglent USA website:
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332

SDG2000X Series Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators

Looks similar to the SDG5000 series but with lower BW's than the top 5000 series model.

Looks like Siglent really likes ripping of Keysight's user interface these days...
Compare this one http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2380493-pn-33622A/ to the Siglent one.

[nctnico]

Just curious, which scope is the contender?

I'm thinking about a small sized Yokogawa. Portability and size are an issue and I don't want to spend too much on it either.

Interesting choice. I assume you're looking at the DL(M)2000 then (based on the fact that there are only two general purpose scope models and the DLM4k is pretty big):

Nope. I'm thinking about a second hand one. It has to be a bring-along scope as well. I need a shower + change of clothes when I get back from some customers Such environments are not the right place to bring a scope which costs north of  $5k.

[dadler]

Another hidden on the Siglent USA website:
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332

SDG2000X Series Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators

Looks similar to the SDG5000 series but with lower BW's than the top 5000 series model.

1.2GS/s looks nice.

Edit: Also 16bits vertical resolution.

Primary-spec wise this is approaching the Agilent 336XXA series...

[tautech]

1.2GS/s looks nice.

Don't they.

Sorry I don't have further info at this time, but I am told these units are significally better technologies than Siglent has produced to this time.

Edit
Wonder if Steve might share some further specs for the SDG2000 series?

[Siglent America]

The new Siglent X-Series instruments will be introduced on August 28.

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

I have used the SDG2000X and SDS1000X only at shows but I was very impressed with what I saw!

Steve

[dadler]

The new Siglent X-Series instruments will be introduced on August 28.

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

I have used the SDG2000X and SDS1000X only at shows but I was very impressed with what I saw!

Steve

Are the SDG2000X generators equipped with floating outputs like the SDG5000 series?

[Siglent America]

The new Siglent X-Series instruments will be introduced on August 28.

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

I have used the SDG2000X and SDS1000X only at shows but I was very impressed with what I saw!

Steve

Are the SDG2000X generators equipped with floating outputs like the SDG5000 series?

It doesn't appear to have floating outputs. 
Steve

[Wuerstchenhund]

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

Finally, that's great news 

Now, if you could finally produce some waveform editor that doesn't suck (have a look at the Tektronix ArbExpress, which is a pretty good example of what it should be) and doesn't use the ugly fonts most Chinese products seem to use then I'd say you're mostly there!

[Hydrawerk]

There seems to be trigger output at the back.

[tautech]

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

Finally, that's great news 

Why?
The SDS1000 and SDS1000X series are not what one would call other than entry level class DSO's and have been perfectly functional for PC connection by USB.
Likewise with all the USB controlled Siglent equipment.

We hope in the new X class range the USB divers are pre-installed so no PC internal file corruption of the installed driver can occur.

I agree LAN may be useful for SDG2000X AWG and SPD3303X PSU as these each seem very capable intruments and better than hobbyist class.

[Fsck]

does this remind anyone else of a gimped (2-channel) DS1000z series?

[rf-loop]

does this remind anyone else of a gimped (2-channel) DS1000z series?

Both are max 1GSa/s oscilloscopes, yes. 

Otherwise not.

[Wuerstchenhund]

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

Finally, that's great news 

Why?
The SDS1000 and SDS1000X series are not what one would call other than entry level class DSO's and have been perfectly functional for PC connection by USB.
Likewise with all the USB controlled Siglent equipment.

Because USB is pretty poor if your instrument is sitting away more than just a few feet from your PC, and crutches like USB extenders aren't exactly known for their reliable operation.

The other thing is if your test software runs on a server ina VM (a setup we have in our labs), and USB rerouting is pretty poor unless you pass through the USB hardware to the VM (which also doesn't work in any hypervisor). LAN on the other side just works, period.

But leaving all this aside, fact is that with Rigol LAN has been pretty much standard with their DS1000z, DS2000Z, DG1000z and DS4000. It's becoming pretty much standard even in this price class.

The SDS1000X looks like a nice scope, but the thing is like the older SDS1000CxL Series it's 2ch only while Rigol offers a 4ch scope at an incredible price - and it comes with LAN interface. The SDS1000X will be a tough sell even when as we now know has LAN. Plus Rigol has the better history in terms of firmware maturity, while Siglent has burned a lot of goodwill with their SDS2000 disaster (and it seems SDS2000 owners will now have to wait even longer for the next update which may or may not fix the various problems). They can't really afford to skimp on features that pretty much can be found in almost any current Rigol product.

So yes, I do believe it's a good thing that LAN is included.

[tautech]

The new SDG2000X family of generators do have a LAN interface as does the new SPD3303X power supplies and SDS1000X oscilloscopes.

Finally, that's great news 

Why?
The SDS1000 and SDS1000X series are not what one would call other than entry level class DSO's and have been perfectly functional for PC connection by USB.
Likewise with all the USB controlled Siglent equipment.

Because USB is pretty poor if your instrument is sitting away more than just a few feet from your PC, and crutches like USB extenders aren't exactly known for their reliable operation.

Fair enough.

Plus Rigol has the better history in terms of firmware maturity, while Siglent has burned a lot of goodwill with their SDS2000 disaster (and it seems SDS2000 owners will now have to wait even longer for the next update which may or may not fix the various problems).

So you just overlook the 40+ missing features and bugs in kwass's Rigol DS1000Z bugs and wishlist thread and call this firmware mature? 

[nctnico]

So yes, I do believe it's a good thing that LAN is included.

IF it works. On the SDS2000 the LAN connection is one of the things which does not work. I did some experimenting with it to see if I could get waveform data at a reasonable update speed so I could create a PC based FFT with the scope as an acquisition front end.

edit: typo

[Wuerstchenhund]

Plus Rigol has the better history in terms of firmware maturity, while Siglent has burned a lot of goodwill with their SDS2000 disaster (and it seems SDS2000 owners will now have to wait even longer for the next update which may or may not fix the various problems).

So you just overlook the 40+ missing features and bugs in kwass's Rigol DS1000Z bugs and wishlist thread and call this firmware mature? 

I said *more* mature. I didn't say Rigol's firmware the epithome of software quality (which it definitely isn't).

But funny enough Rigol fixed the bugs for its bottom-of-the-barrel DS1000z a lot quicker than Siglent for it's much more expensive SDS2000. This is even more embarrassing when considering that the SDS2000 is on the market for longer.

I seriously hope that Siglent has finally got a grip on their software development, although I won't hold my breath.

[zapta]

Plus Rigol has the better history in terms of firmware maturity, while Siglent has burned a lot of goodwill with their SDS2000 disaster (and it seems SDS2000 owners will now have to wait even longer for the next update which may or may not fix the various problems).

So you just overlook the 40+ missing features and bugs in kwass's Rigol DS1000Z bugs and wishlist thread and call this firmware mature? 

Coming here to trash your competitors doesn't reflect well on your brand. Stay classy.

[tautech]

Update.
The new X series Siglents DSO, PSU & AWG pre-release units will be available to dealers in a week from today.

But which one to get? 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Another hidden on the Siglent USA website:
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=1332

SDG2000X Series Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators

1.2GS/s looks nice.

Edit: Also 16bits vertical resolution.

I, too, thought it looks nice, but then I found the spec sheet:
http://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Siglent_SDG2000X_Datasheet-V1.0.pdf

It seems the 1.2GSa/s sampling rate drops down to 300MSa/s (DDS mode) or even a measly 75MSa/s in Arbitrary Waveform mode:



If that's correct then this is pretty poor, and quite frankly it raises some doubt over the 1.2GSa/s claim.

Primary-spec wise this is approaching the Agilent 336XXA series...

I'd say it's pretty far off, as the 33600A Series maintains their high sampling rate in Arbitrary mode, and the jitter is a lot lower (<1ps on the Keysight vs 150ps with the SDG2000X).

Plus the SDG20000X still comes with the horribly EasyWave editor which should have died a long time ago already.

But then, the Keysight 33600A Series is a lot more expensive, so I guess for the money the Siglent is probably ok if this time the firmware is actually mature, something Siglent failed on a regular basis.

[Siglent America]

Yes, the new SDG2000X series uses the main DDS running at 300 MHz but the D-A converter runs at 1.2 GSa/s so it does interpolate and smooth the output signal.
We have written a white-paper explaining the advantages of this type architecture, using both the time-domain and frequency-domain to analyze the advantages. I expect it will be available after August 28.
Steve

[Mark_O]

In my biased opinion, the SDS1000X is a beautiful scope and customers that have seen it at shows have seemed to agree. I have strong reason to believe that the firmware will be much more mature than was the SDS2000 when it was released.

I suspect you are correct, Steve.  If only because the firmware for the 1000X will simply be a variant of that for the SDS2000*.  So it will benefit from that improved starting point.  Hardware-wise, the new series appears to be basically a simplification and repackaging of the 2000, at a lower price-point.

[*there's no possible way that Siglent had the resources to do a new series from scratch.  and no real reason to do so.]

[Mark_O]

Can you disclose an approximate ballpark figure about how many Chinese/American software engineers are dedicated 100% on fixing the bugs in the firmware?

Probably 0.

That's not meant to be an insult, but rather an observation that companies with smaller dev teams rarely have anyone dedicated 100% to anything.

I like both Siglent and Rigol...  and I am convinced that both companies will eventually get to the level where new discovered bugs can be fixed within shorter time periods.

Perhaps.     But will it be in our lifetimes?   

[Mark_O]

After careful nomination, official Beta testers get free candy like factory sealed Siglent scopes and other shrinkwrapped test gear
I am not saying that this should apply to the high-end models, but it could apply to the sub 300-500 USD range.

Right.  Because expensive kit needs no testing.   

Come with a structured approach to report issues in a uniform way. Setup a bug tracking system for the official Beta testers, like ClearDDTS, Bugzilla. Follow up major findings, suggestions for improvements, UX issues and showstopper issues monthly in a limited group conference call.

Sounds lovely.  The problem being that all requires resources, which Siglent lacks.  It also presupposes that the core problem is lack of folks reporting bugs to Siglent.  Which I am pretty sure is NOT the case. 

[rf-loop]

  So it will benefit from that improved starting point.  Hardware-wise, the new series appears to be basically a simplification and repackaging of the 2000, at a lower price-point.

HW is very different least in front end including also ADC.  1000X series have true 500uV/div sensitivity. (not fake sensitivity as example in Rigol 1000Z  1mV/div what is just zoomed from  5mV/div  as also 2mV/div)  Siglent  SDS2000  have 2mV/div and it have fixed BW reject.
Hi-Res is not  box car averaging. It is more advanced ERES (but this is not HW thing). ( Teledyne explanation of differencies)
But, after end of this month perhaps mouth can open more.

[timofonic]

I'm an electronics student saving money to get an oscilloscope, so I consider all options.

Being a computer Linux geek and occasional bug reporter, bugs annoys me a lot.

Perhaps smaller companies can benefit having an Open Source firmware. They do interesting lower cost Hardware, but struggle to have a robust firmware and fixing the appearing bugs. This way, there could be external contributors providing fixes too.

After all, the company sell the hardware. The software is a "necessary evil", it's better if the code is reused and developed collaboratively to provide it in better quality.

[rf-loop]

Today Siglent new X  series  (X1000 oscilloscopes, X2000 TrueArb generators and X3000 power supplies) is officially launched. Launch date 28.08.2015)


SDS 1000X oscilloscopes http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1369&T=2&tid=1

SDG 2000X waveform generators   http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1364&T=2&tid=16

SPD 3303 X power supplies,  http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1393&T=2&tid=17

[nctnico]

Neat... they show a PAL TV signal on the SDS1000X. None of the TVs in my home uses that nowadays. 

[timofonic]

Neat... they show a PAL TV signal on the SDS1000X. None of the TVs in my home uses that nowadays. 

Not here too. Despite my country is underdeveloped, our TV system is all digital. Public TV channels are mostly low resolution, but I don't care because I mostly see stuff from Internet (and these days geek YouTube channels such as EEvBlog).

Anyway, maybe a nice way to show the analog capabilities. I hope the Chinese oscilloscope makers develop better firmwares and someday they realize making them Open Source may give them advantages over big brands (users fixing errors and adding extra features).

[Siglent America]

The new SDS1000X oscilloscopes do support HDTV triggering.
Steve

[nctnico]

Who uses analog HDTV? It's all digital nowadays with compressed data or raw data over gigabit links. Way outside the field where you would use a 100MHz or 200MHz scope.

[Siglent America]

For a BASEBAND HDTV signal, these scopes have plenty of bandwidth.

According to the Tektronix application note:
"The bandwidth of an HDTV signal, for example,
is typically 30 MHz. Therefore, an oscilloscope for HDTV
applications should have bandwidth of at least 150 MHz. "

[Wuerstchenhund]

Are there any reviews yet (you'd think they did send out their new kit to reviewers in advance so that reviews are available at market introduction)?

I could be interested in the SDG2122X but I'd like to see a bit more than just Siglent's promo video. I also wonder what built-in waveforms the SDG2000X offers (I honestly hope they have extended the built-in waveform repertoire, as the SDG1000 and SDG5000 were pretty sparse even compared what Rigol offers in the DG1000z).

I had a look at the manual and while the UI of the SDG2000X looks nice it also looks a bit toy-ish. Plus the manual states that despite the large display the SDG2000X can only display settings for a single channel at a time (Rigol's DG1000z can display both, with a smaller display!). The UI in the Siglent also doesn't seem to be customizable. 

Looks like missed opportunities.

[nctnico]

For a BASEBAND HDTV signal, these scopes have plenty of bandwidth.

According to the Tektronix application note:
"The bandwidth of an HDTV signal, for example,
is typically 30 MHz. Therefore, an oscilloscope for HDTV
applications should have bandwidth of at least 150 MHz. "

Now I'd like to see an actual circuit which uses HDTV... Analog TV has died over a decade ago. Look on Ebay and see how many TV pattern generators are for sale but don't get sold.

[Siglent America]

Are there any reviews yet (you'd think they did send out their new kit to reviewers in advance so that reviews are available at market introduction)?

I could be interested in the SDG2122X but I'd like to see a bit more than just Siglent's promo video. I also wonder what built-in waveforms the SDG2000X offers (I honestly hope they have extended the built-in waveform repertoire, as the SDG1000 and SDG5000 were pretty sparse even compared what Rigol offers in the DG1000z).

I had a look at the manual and while the UI of the SDG2000X looks nice it also looks a bit toy-ish. Plus the manual states that despite the large display the SDG2000X can only display settings for a single channel at a time (Rigol's DG1000z can display both, with a smaller display!). The UI in the Siglent also doesn't seem to be customizable. 

Looks like missed opportunities.

Wuerstchenhund,

I'm not aware of any reviews yet for the SDG2000X generator family. I am assuming they will start showing up fairly soon though.
Although I have used one at several shows I did not notice how many ARB waveforms were built in. There are 45-50 built-in ARBs on the SDG1000/5000 so I believe it will be at least this many. I will check plus we will have some units in house soon.

You are correct - the display on the SDG2000X is larger than on the DG1000Zs but it displays only one channel at a time. For what it's worth, you can see the color-coded tab for the other channel which shows its function, output impedance selection, Burst/Modulation/Sweep, etc.
Steve

[Wuerstchenhund]

I'm not aware of any reviews yet for the SDG2000X generator family. I am assuming they will start showing up fairly soon though.

I hope so.

Although I have used one at several shows I did not notice how many ARB waveforms were built in. There are 45-50 built-in ARBs on the SDG1000/5000 so I believe it will be at least this many. I will check plus we will have some units in house soon.

Would be great if you could check (it would be even better if it was listed somewhere, i.e. the manual, the datasheet or the website), as 45 to 50 sounds like it hasn't really improved over the SDG1000/5000 (i.e. the Rigol has 160, and many of them are more complex and real-world like signals).

You are correct - the display on the SDG2000X is larger than on the DG1000Zs but it displays only one channel at a time. For what it's worth, you can see the color-coded tab for the other channel which shows its function, output impedance selection, Burst/Modulation/Sweep, etc.

I know, I saw the screenshots in the user manual (and in a quite few of them the display area was pretty poorly utilized), and as I said it's a bit of a missed opportunity to make better use of such a comparably large display. What a shame, really.

[t3chiman]

Re: SDG2042X availability, as of August 28, TEquipment is estimating ship date as December 10. Looks like my gratification will be delayed ...

[tautech]

Re: SDG2042X availability, as of August 28, TEquipment is estimating ship date as December 10. Looks like my gratification will be delayed ...

Yes, I was told the first batch was quite small and the next production run was in September.
However sipping delays could easily add a month or more before they are available at resellers.

Steve @ Siglent America will have a better idea when they'll land in quanties in the US.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Yes, I was told the first batch was quite small and the next production run was in September.
However sipping delays could easily add a month or more before they are available at resellers.

If that's true then this is worrysome as it looks like the SDS2000 introduction all over again. 

Seriously, this isn't the smart phone market where people are willing to wait for the latest i-gadget. Test instruments are normally bought when needed, so as a manufacturer when you come out with a new product you better make sure sufficient stock is available for launch day or your competitors get the business. So far the new Siglent products don't look too bad but they're nothing groundbreaking, and especially the SDS1000X will already have it very difficult against the Rigol DS1000z since the latter is a 4-channel scope, and delay in getting the product out there will make it even harder for Siglent to compete when the Rigol DS1000z is readily available anywhere.

A shipping date of December for a product introduced at the end of August is just embarrassing. 

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class), and the fact that they did again miss what is pretty basic marketing doesn't instill much confidence that they didn't learn from the other mistake which was the bug-ridden firmware.

[Siglent America]

It appears that the new SDG2000X generators have the same ARB functions as the SDG5000 series.
Steve

[nctnico]

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class)

I agree. It don't see why Siglent spend effort on yet another two channel low end scope while their potential killer oscilloscope still doesn't work 

[rf-loop]

You'd think that Siglent had learnt their lesson with the SDS2000 (which was a more attractive product in its segment than the SDS1000X is in the bottom-of-the-barrel class)

I agree. It don't see why Siglent spend effort on yet another two channel low end scope while their potential killer oscilloscope still doesn't work 

SDS2000 there is some funtions not ready. But, example I use SDS2304 in everyday use and I have not meet problems in my use.  Yes I know Hig-Res works still today only very limited but this I do not need at all in my peronal use and roll mode do not have peak detect what is exactly zero value in my personal needs. What all I need works perfect. Even better what I hope when I buy it.  Specially up to 400k segments (waveforms)/s segmented acquire speed works like charm and also full speed mask test. Also I need not worry and always check if sinc function destroy real data from signal as it do in riglol.
 
But, this is my individual use and needs.

Overall for all kinds of use it is sad to say it is still waiting major class FW update.
I think even it is better if Siglent open they mouth and honest tell what all bugs they know and what they are doing.  If they open this it is perhaps risk but I believe with opening this "secrets box" they may rescue and win something.  Least customers some trust is perhaps possible rescue, if they honest tell with enough details what is going on.

[nctnico]

For that kind of use an old Tek TDS500/700 series is more than sufficient. No need to spend a whole lot of cash. Try to use decoding on the SDS2000 (not to mention decoding on the digital channels). Or use the cursors. Or triggering on a specific CAN message. Or various functions at the same time. As soon as you drive the SDS2000 in the more advanced features it is a big let down. I'm close to needing anger management therapy to restrain myself not to throw it out of the window. Fortunately a replacement oscilloscope is on the way and my SDS2000 can go.

[Wuerstchenhund]

It appears that the new SDG2000X generators have the same ARB functions as the SDG5000 series.

Well, that's very disappointing. 

But thanks for checking.

[Wuerstchenhund]

SDS2000 there is some funtions not ready.

Considering how long this thing has been on the market it's a pretty poor show when still major functionality is not ready.

Overall for all kinds of use it is sad to say it is still waiting major class FW update.

I guess we'll rather see a 'SDS2000X' than a firmware update that actually fixes the major issues (and does this without breaking something else).

I think even it is better if Siglent open they mouth and honest tell what all bugs they know and what they are doing.  If they open this it is perhaps risk but I believe with opening this "secrets box" they may rescue and win something.  Least customers some trust is perhaps possible rescue, if they honest tell with enough details what is going on.

Yes, that would be great, but considering that so far they stuck to silence and sitting out I won't hold my breath.

Although I agree that being open about bugs and the progress in fixing them might be their last chance to save what overall was a pretty embarrassing show. At the end of the day Siglent's hardware is pretty good, but as far as firmware is concerned they leave the impression of a bunch of amateurs. And frankly, aside from the SDS2000 debacle, the fact that their latest AWG (SDG2000X) apparently still comes with a shitty program like 'EasyWave' doesn't instill any trust that they actually learned their lesson.

Siglent appears to be mostly focused on hardware, software seems to be an afterthought for them. My gut feeling is that this will sooner or later bite them in the backside.

[tautech]

As soon as you drive the SDS2000 in the more advanced features it is a big let down. I'm close to needing anger management therapy to restrain myself not to throw it out of the window. Fortunately a replacement oscilloscope is on the way and my SDS2000 can go.

The sooner it arrives the better for your sanity. 

I'm sure Siglent has been thankful for your feedback but it seems you now have a personal vendetta despite the fact Siglent has given you consideration for your inconveniences and you could then still not hold your tongue. 

It's a shame Siglent has not been much more timely with FW upgrades for the 2000 series and also dissapointing you have not hung in for the long haul, however quite understood IMHO.

The SDS2000 is a good scope, good HW and well spec'ed for the price, getting repeat sales to major international companies (despite some members incessant bad press) and each day is another closer to the major FW update we expect. AFAIK it's closer than we've been lead to expect, however I'm not holding my breath.
We look forward to any further positive contribution you may offer. 

[tautech]

SDS2000 there is some funtions not ready.

Considering how long this thing has been on the market it's a pretty poor show when still major functionality is not ready.

Overall for all kinds of use it is sad to say it is still waiting major class FW update.

I guess we'll rather see a 'SDS2000X' than a firmware update that actually fixes the major issues (and does this without breaking something else).

I think even it is better if Siglent open they mouth and honest tell what all bugs they know and what they are doing.  If they open this it is perhaps risk but I believe with opening this "secrets box" they may rescue and win something.  Least customers some trust is perhaps possible rescue, if they honest tell with enough details what is going on.

Yes, that would be great, but considering that so far they stuck to silence and sitting out I won't hold my breath.

Although I agree that being open about bugs and the progress in fixing them might be their last chance to save what overall was a pretty embarrassing show. At the end of the day Siglent's hardware is pretty good, but as far as firmware is concerned they leave the impression of a bunch of amateurs. And frankly, aside from the SDS2000 debacle, the fact that their latest AWG (SDG2000X) apparently still comes with a shitty program like 'EasyWave' doesn't instill any trust that they actually learned their lesson.

Siglent appears to be mostly focused on hardware, software seems to be an afterthought for them. My gut feeling is that this will sooner or later bite them in the backside.

I'm sure Siglent is very thankful of your ongoing interest in their products, albeit in a negative way. 

Positive contribution from an experienced technician like yourself would be highly respected especially if linked and compared to compeditors features and more so, features that are highly desirable.

Siglent's representation here is high profile and therefore suffers some "tall poppy" syndrome but we must endure this, however all feedback is valuable, more so if positive if that is at all possible of Siglent products from you. 

We all should remind ourselves, without the Asian TE products we'd all be paying many times more for our TE and unless we contribute, quality would be slow to improve.
Now Siglent has strong English language support from North America's input to head office in Shenzhen much will improve in the foreseeable future.
Thanks all for your support. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

I'm sure Siglent is very thankful of your ongoing interest in their products, albeit in a negative way. 

Why should Siglent be thankful in a negative way? That doesn't make any sense.

Positive contribution from an experienced technician like yourself would be highly respected especially if linked and compared to compeditors features and more so, features that are highly desirable.

What, again? I guess you then missed the part where I mentioned for example that Rigol manages to display the major parameters of both channels of their DG1000z on a small display while on the new SDG2000X you can only see one, despite the larger display. The Rigol UI is also somewhat customizable, which the SDG2000X isn't (according to their manual).

You apparently also missed the part where Steve from Siglent America confirmed that the SDG2000X comes with the same poor selection of built-in waveforms as earlier Siglent AWGs, compared to as mentioned the Rigol comes with 3 times as much.

Considering that you missed that I'm of course no longer surprised that you also missed my point about EasyWave, which is a really poor and fugly piece of software. There are examples out there how to do a waveform editor properly (i.e. the free Tektronix ArbExpress) and which Siglent could have used as a template for coming up with something better, but no, they decided that even their nice new 1GSa/s AWG doesn't deserve better than this abomination of software. Which is silly, really, as the point of an AWG is to be able to create arbitrary (non-standard) signals, but if the toolset is crap then this somewhat defeats the point and makes the whole package a lot less attractive. Siglent doesn't seem to understand that.

We all know that you've some horses in the race but you should really pay a bit more attention to what has been said.

Siglent's representation here is high profile and therefore suffers some "tall poppy" syndrome but we must endure this, however all feedback is valuable, more so if positive if that is at all possible of Siglent products from you. 

Since as shown above your attention is somewhat lacking it's no surprise that you also missed that I complimented Siglent many times for their hardware, not just in this thread but also in other ones. But just producing good hardware doesn't cut it.

We all should remind ourselves, without the Asian TE products we'd all be paying many times more for our TE

Probably. But being cheap is only good enough as long as your products still do what they're supposed to do. Don't forget that a large part for the big brand price premium is paying for service and support, something neither Siglent nor Rigol can provide on a similar level. Also, some of the money paid for the big brands will be recouped when selling the kit after many years of use, while your cheap SE Asian devices will be pretty much worthless. Plus, some of the specs of the cheap kit are inferior. All that is what the low price is supposed to offset.

But being a SE Asian TE manufacturer is hardly an excuse for throwing buggy products onto the market and then leaving customers hanging.

and unless we contribute, quality would be slow to improve.

Are you joking? How much more can people "contribute" than reporting problems, especially when Siglent keeps stumm about when they will be fixed and what the progress is.

Plus, Siglent's "high profile" (whatever that is) representation in this forum could easily have been used to look at older threads, which would have shown them what has been criticized, and address that. The fact that the new SDG2000X suffers from the same UI deficiencies as other Siglent kit, comes with the same crap EasyWave program and that the new SDS2000X/SDG2000X aren't even available 'til December clearly shows that they missed that chance to improve.

How much more contribution do you expect paying customers to provide?

Now Siglent has strong English language support from North America's input to head office in Shenzhen much will improve in the foreseeable future.

Maybe, maybe not. So far my impression is that it's more of a one-way street, i.e. information flows from China to the US but not much back (or the back-flow is pretty much dismissed by Shenzhen, which wouldn't be at all surprising).

However, this product release very much looks like business as usual.

[Wuerstchenhund]

also dissapointing you have not hung in for the long haul

He should have been "hanging in", seriously?

Pray tell, if I were to buy a say a SDS3204 (which costs around €1600, so for the moment lets assume that's your price for it) from you, would you accept if I were to pay €1280 only? After all, the SDS2000 isn't working fully as advertized, so it's only fair that when your customer gets an 80% working scope he only pays 80% of the price, and only pays you the rest when Siglent comes out with that great major firmware update that makes everything work fine. After all, you're hanging in for the long haul, too, right?

Or is it only acceptable if it's the customer who the short end of the stick?

each day is another closer to the major FW update we expect.

I'll believe that when I see it, especially since this has been said since the day the SDS2000 hit the streets.

But considering your stakes in it, I can see why you argue that way, while ignoring most of the facts. Seems you believe that sticking your head in the sand and dismissing all criticisms as "vendetta" is the preferred option to acknowledging the issue. Your signature really says it all 

Rabid ... NZ Siglent Distributor

[nctnico]

As soon as you drive the SDS2000 in the more advanced features it is a big let down. I'm close to needing anger management therapy to restrain myself not to throw it out of the window. Fortunately a replacement oscilloscope is on the way and my SDS2000 can go.

The sooner it arrives the better for your sanity. 

I'm sure Siglent has been thankful for your feedback but it seems you now have a personal vendetta despite the fact Siglent has given you consideration for your inconveniences and you could then still not hold your tongue. 

It's a shame Siglent has not been much more timely with FW upgrades for the 2000 series and also dissapointing you have not hung in for the long haul

Vendetta? I think I'm sticking to the facts here!  I need a scope to make money so I already bought a replacement for the SDS2000 as my primary scope last Januari. I demoted my SDS2000 to my backup / bring to customers scope and now I'm replacing it with a different backup scope. Partly because of the short comings (the cursors work so clumsy that it is embarrassing  when a customer looks over my shoulder) but also because it is a significant amount of cash sitting idle on a shelve. And I'll still take a financial hit when I sell my SDS2000 because I'll probably get half of what I paid for it.

[TrioTest]

As soon as you drive the SDS2000 in the more advanced features it is a big let down. I'm close to needing anger management therapy to restrain myself not to throw it out of the window. Fortunately a replacement oscilloscope is on the way and my SDS2000 can go.

The sooner it arrives the better for your sanity. 

I'm sure Siglent has been thankful for your feedback but it seems you now have a personal vendetta despite the fact Siglent has given you consideration for your inconveniences and you could then still not hold your tongue. 

It's a shame Siglent has not been much more timely with FW upgrades for the 2000 series and also dissapointing you have not hung in for the long haul

Vendetta? I think I'm sticking to the facts here!  I need a scope to make money so I already bought a replacement for the SDS2000 as my primary scope last Januari. I demoted my SDS2000 to my backup / bring to customers scope and now I'm replacing it with a different backup scope. Partly because of the short comings (the cursors work so clumsy that it is embarrassing  when a customer looks over my shoulder) but also because it is a significant amount of cash sitting idle on a shelve. And I'll still take a financial hit when I sell my SDS2000 because I'll probably get half of what I paid for it.

We've heard there's a Beta version of the firmware for the SDS2000 now in the factory. Haven't ben told when it is going to be released. Hopefully soon.

[fanOfeeDIY]

Hi,

I updated the chart
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-oscilloscope-comparison-chart/

for adding SDS1000X series from the link here in English.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1369&T=2&tid=1