EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: EEVblog on November 30, 2012, 08:16:49 pm
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Tek stun the market with a new low cost scope:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tektronix-introduces-entry-level-tbs1000-140000532.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tektronix-introduces-entry-level-tbs1000-140000532.html)
http://www.tek.com/basic-oscilloscopes/tbs1000 (http://www.tek.com/basic-oscilloscopes/tbs1000)
:-DD
Dave.
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why is that looks like a chinese shit? controls layout everything
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The product manager for that has a long sparking career ahead. NOT....
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TBS series... that must stand for Total Bull S**t ;D
MFW reading the specs and prices:
Rainbow Dash laughing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0urb6lU-FkI#ws)
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"Most Affordable Tektronix Oscilloscope Series Delivers Unprecedented Value"
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
2.5k sample memory ... Wake me up when 2012 comes :o
and ... 100 MHz for 1100$ WOOHOO! Brilliant. Let me go to a Tektronix store and ask if they offer anything with"unprecedented value" :-DD
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This is what you get when a company's hive mind thinks it is beneath them to compete in a particular market section, but the bosses say they have to, because the marketing guys say they have to.
$520 list price for a 25 MHz entry level, hobbyist oscilloscope? I don't think so.
Students? Well, the misguided ones who only know oscilloscopes from their uni's lab and they all happen to be Teks.
Educators? Maybe, and Tek seems to target them with accompanying "education resources" and will likely give them a discount. The five year warranty might also be tempting for educators.
Professionals? If they have a bean counting boss.
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I really hope that Tektronix has something good up their sleeve to show off soon, and that this crapola is just bridging the gap...
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April 1 is a long way off!
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Someone in Tektronix is going to get fired over these scopes. For Tek's sake I hope its vapourware. Nobody with a right mind would buy such a scope. I really don't understand that nobody at Tektronix sees that they have been missing out on the low end market since the TDS1000 series.
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Maybe for $320 that would be a good deal. No way Tek.
Rigol is going to come ringing your doorbell and personally hand your ass to you in a box.
They're letting us down. No one wants to see Tek get run over by a Chinese company, (well unless you're Chinese or hate America or Tek), but if Rigol is making the better product, they win.
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I can't even bother looking at the price, I'm so stunned by how crappy it looks. That control panel looks overly sparse and prototype-y. It looks weird, kind of like the two-channel versions of four-channel Agilent scopes that look like they're missing something where the other channels would be - except it's not missing anything and it still has that look.
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Great, so essentially another rehash of the TDS 200/1000/B series. The TDS 1000 series added FFT as standard, a frequency counter and some other minor features. The TDS 1000B added USB connectivity. The TBS1000 appears to add a color LCD. All use the same short (analog shift register based) memory. Tektronix should really stop adding irrelevant features to old technology (how long do they think they can sell nineties-era sampling technology?) and come up with some substantial improvements. A DPO2000 series scope for well under $1000, for example.
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Me thinks Dave watches the stock market closely.
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Notice it is $520 for 25MHz. Leaves thinking what's so special about Tek's general purpose scopes.
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http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/mso2000-dpo2000 (http://www.tek.com/oscilloscope/mso2000-dpo2000)
The MSO2000/DPO2000 are the ones competing against the Rigol and Agilent 2000 series scopes. The 1000 series :-- Somebody in marketing has to be fired :(
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2.5k sample memory ... Wake me up when 2012 comes :o
and ... 100 MHz for 1100$ WOOHOO! Brilliant. Let me go to a Tektronix store and ask if they offer anything with"unprecedented value" :-DD
For almost the same price you can get the baseline 70MHz Agilent 2000X series!
Dave.
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Me thinks Dave watches the stock market closely.
Nah, that just came up first on Google for the press release.
Dave.
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There must be a market for the branded name scopes in the bottom end:
http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pc-1562658/oscilloscope?pm=SC&nid=-34250.0&cc=US&lc=eng (http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pc-1562658/oscilloscope?pm=SC&nid=-34250.0&cc=US&lc=eng)
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There must be a market for the branded name scopes in the bottom end:
http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pc-1562658/oscilloscope?pm=SC&nid=-34250.0&cc=US&lc=eng (http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pc-1562658/oscilloscope?pm=SC&nid=-34250.0&cc=US&lc=eng)
Yeah, Tek will sell a few to several gullible markets, enough to make it worthwhile.
Doesn't make it any less hilarious though :-DD
Dave.
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Blasphemy! A 1052E for $800? You're shittin me.
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Blasphemy! A 1052E for $800? You're shittin me.
That's what I paid for mine 4 years ago!
Was a bargain at the time.
The 1052E has twice the bandwidth of the Tek, and 400 times the memory!
Dave.
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http://www.tek.com/datasheet/oscilloscope/tps2000-digital-storage-oscilloscopes (http://www.tek.com/datasheet/oscilloscope/tps2000-digital-storage-oscilloscopes)
This one goes only for $2990 and you can Hot swap batteries. I wonder how it stuck up against the Owon SDS8102 for $599 |O
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So glad I purchased my Rigol 1052E (and subsequently firmware modded to 1102E, thanks guys on the EEVBlog forum!). Same performance for 1/2 (or better!) the price? Good luck selling to anyone that's not a giant Tek fan...
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As Tek seems to have abandoned any new development and are just rehashing obsolete designs, maybe they'd be better off going for the serious retro market and re-introducing this model - hell if I had the space I'd buy one!
(http://w140.com/tekwiki/images/thumb/0/0d/567_front.jpg/800px-567_front.jpg)
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But... It comes with two channels!
Alexander.
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http://www.tek.com/datasheet/oscilloscope/tps2000-digital-storage-oscilloscopes (http://www.tek.com/datasheet/oscilloscope/tps2000-digital-storage-oscilloscopes)
This one goes only for $2990 and you can Hot swap batteries. I wonder how it stuck up against the Owon SDS8102 for $599 |O
Does the SDS8102 have fully isolated channels? Can you safely clip the ground leads of the channels to signals a few hundred volts above ground? Can you clip them to circuits at different potentials? The only competition in this field I'm aware of is the Fluke ScopeMeter series, and you're not going to like the prices any better.
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The TPS2000 series is a whole other beast with isolated channels. Tek has a patent on the technology they used.
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The only competition in this field I'm aware of is the Fluke ScopeMeter series, and you're not going to like the prices any better.
Here's some not well known competition--not cheap either. However, not only are there isolated channels, but the vertical resolution is 12 bits:
http://www.aemc.com/products/html/moreinfo.asp?id=1816&dbname=products (http://www.aemc.com/products/html/moreinfo.asp?id=1816&dbname=products)
I've wanted to get my hands on one of these for a few minutes ever since I saw the web page.
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It looks like a new "My First Scope". Goes along with the Hakko FX-888 "My First Soldering Iron" look. Guess it's a trend.
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The FX-888 has a pretty nice design. It's not stackable but I don't find a need to stack it. The soldering iron lead is too short to have it on a shelf stacked with other things anyway.
This scope seems lacking things in the front panel, it is plain and gray. At leas Rigol has some colors and other things going in the DS1052E.
I guess you call them "My first set of tools" because they both look like toys in design, one of them colorful and the other too simple to be an "adult's scope".
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It looks like a new "My First Scope". Goes along with the Hakko FX-888 "My First Soldering Iron" look. Guess it's a trend.
The trend even has a name, gamification. Everything needs to look like a game (colors, simplifications, etc.) and work like a game (points/scores, achievement badges). It is said to improve engagement by taking advantage of human's predisposition to engage in gaming.
It is something for the Facebook generation who think the whole world is just a game and get extremely annoyed when you expect some serious work from them.
Although the idea is of course not new.
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The new digital Tek scopes has been disappointing since day one. They don't get it at all, there's no geeky guy in the design department??? Or is he asleep. The Chinese has been leading the budget DSO for quite a whie now. And when they announce new product, they do it through electronics media network and not end up in a finance news section. This is clearly a fail for a company wishing to increase stock value the product is going to be a flop anyway.
The schools kept buying Tek scope because they kept the layout the same they are either too lazy to update their learning material or the lecturer is incompetent to do so.
tapatalk
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The new digital Tek scopes has been disappointing since day one. They don't get it at all, there's no geeky guy in the design department??? Or is he asleep. The Chinese has been leading the budget DSO for quite a whie now. And when they announce new product, they do it through electronics media network and not end up in a finance news section. This is clearly a fail for a company wishing to increase stock value the product is going to be a flop anyway.
The schools kept buying Tek scope because they kept the layout the same they are either too lazy to update their learning material or the lecturer is incompetent to do so.
tapatalk
If Tek doesn't get their heads out of where the sun don't shine soon, they're screwed.
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The new digital Tek scopes has been disappointing since day one. They don't get it at all, there's no geeky guy in the design department??? Or is he asleep.
Well, Tek is proudly(?) blogging about their engineers going to sales dept. Go figure...
(and who knows, maybe it was a swap and someone from sales went to design dept. ;D )
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ahhh glory days for tek RE https://twitter.com/mightyohm/status/275527981613588480
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going, going ......
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ahhh glory days for tek RE https://twitter.com/mightyohm/status/275527981613588480
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going, going ......
Stunningly beautiful ^-^
Thanks!
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Ugh I love old stuff and I was born in 1994...too bad.
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2.5k sample memory and 100 MHz for 1100$
exactly my thoughts... Overpriced tripe. probably a rehash from some old crap they had laying around. and it still has the crappy 320x240 qvga display. Come on guys... wake up and look at your new chinese overlords. They are gone to beat the shit out of you ...
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Come on guys... wake up and look at your new chinese overlords. They are gone to beat the shit out of you ...
Danaher don't care. They will run a lean tight ship and milk every last dollar of profit from every existing product line until the division (or company) dies.
Dave.
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There are still a lot of people paying for the name so TEK would survive :-DD
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I bet every new tek scopes = :-BROKE
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320 x 240?? :-DD :-DD On like at 6-7" display?
My free cellphone has a 2.4" display with the SAME resolution.
Yikes.
Well better start buying stock in HP/Agilent...
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There are still a lot of people paying for the name so TEK would survive :-DD
We shouldn't forget that Tektronix also make high-end scopes (and other equipment) which the Chinese don't provide. If you look for a 4 channel >300MHz scope the offerings get thin and the prices high.
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We shouldn't forget that Tektronix also make high-end scopes (and other equipment) which the Chinese don't provide. If you look for a 4 channel >300MHz scope the offerings get thin and the prices high.
http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds4000/ds4054/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds4000/ds4054/)
Not a problem.
http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds6000/ds6104/ (http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds6000/ds6104/)
That? Certainly not a problem finding one either
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tek and agilent should leave the low end to other makers.
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There are still a lot of people paying for the name so TEK would survive :-DD
..but a name won't last forever if it isn't backed up by good products, especially when people are increasing looking for good value. How long will people go on paying twice the price for an inferior product just because of the name?
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Very true. You can only live off your name for so long before people realize "Oh wow these products suck. Or oh wow, I can get the same thing for half the price."
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Just my luck as a student of Adelaide university, I hear that they have just ordered a large quantity for thier labs. What fun I'm going to have with this state of the art equipment! This is the best oscilloscopes that they could provide for my final year project! No doubt they got this at some rock bottom price to haha |O :palm:
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No doubt they got this at some rock bottom price to haha |O :palm:
Yep, they would have practically given them away.
Do they have any old scopes you can score?
Dave.
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No doubt they got this at some rock bottom price to haha |O :palm:
When you sell something heavily overpriced there is always room for a good discount and nice commission for the purchasing manager:)
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I didn't find the difference between TBS1000 and TDS1000.
It's so experience,three times price of Chinese same specification oscilloscope.
I rather buy a siglent’s SDS1000 or others Chinese oscilloscope.
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You don't have to call them 'Chinese' oscilloscope because most of them are made there. We should call them 'better budget scope'.
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TBS1000 is not bad. :D It is a retro scope! It is just very similar to TDS220 introduced in 1996... TBS1000 series might be good for schools, especially in lessons where students meet a digital scope for the first time... It might be a long lasting oscilloscope... Useful at school!
But TBS1000 is not for serious hobbyists... What I miss the most is the delayed time base. There is no such thing as on the picture. Picture taken from some Atten scope manual.
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WELL! Someone's confident in their brand :-DD They must be if they put these entry-level scopes out on the market for these "entry-level" prices which are nothing to send a telegram home about..... Do they seriously think people are going to throw their wallets at them? I think so! Man, I sure hope that beginners do their research and not fall into the brand trap and just assume they are getting good value for money going with Tek at the low end. I fully support Dave's claim in getting a Rigol 1052E and hacking it into an 1102E.
Get a darn clue, Tektronix!
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Do they seriously think people are going to throw their wallets at them?
As others and I wrote, they are targeting the education market, those to dumb to know better, those having tax payer's money to spend so giving a rat's arse, those hoping to get good service with the instruments and those working on the basis of "nobody was ever fired fired for buying Tektronix".
Will they manage to find enough of those to make a buck? Well, the Danaher business system should tell them in time. And if the numbers aren't great Danaher has no qualms to chop a few heads off. Let's just hope it will be a few brain dead MBA heads - they anyhow won't miss their heads much.
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I personally feel nothing wrong with buying Rigol test equipment. They are active innovators that deliver a second rate product for low prices. Their customer service is amazing too! When my scope fell off the bench. :palm: A knob snapped off, they took it and even recal'd it for me! kudos rigol :-+
I wouldnt choose to buy from a fat cat american company just because they are american. What happened to the TEK MSO scopes? That looked pretty awesome
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It looks like a new "My First Scope". Goes along with the Hakko FX-888 "My First Soldering Iron" look. Guess it's a trend.
Don't you be putting down the Hakko FX-888 station :D Why does everything have to have that BOOOOORING industrial look? We're no longer engineers dead-set on functionality alone, we now demand that functionality wrapped up in a pretty package %-B
Believe it or not, my decision making process regarding investing into my bench equipment involves looks too, and not as a low priority.
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The Hakko FX-888 is adorable. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
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The Hakko FX-888 is adorable. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I agree.
First time I saw it it was a bit of a shock, but after seeing one in person, you kinda fall in love with the minimal yet funky look.
They hired a big name professional artist to design it and he even signed his name on it. I think it shows.
Dave.
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Actually it's not as goofy in person as I expected it to be. I was expecting something like this (http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/kimmysgarden/for%20sale/LittleTikeseasel.jpg)
But it turned out looking more "professional" than I anticipated.
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It's still goofy looking. And now that they've taken the knob away there's two reasons not to buy it.
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Well, the Tektronix guys think that their TBS1000 is better than other similar scopes of the same class... They made competitive fact sheets. Try reading them just for fun... What do you think? IMHO the TBS1000 has a better ADC chip and longer 5 year warranty... And that is all... Then TBS1000 has many disadvantages... Anyway, the TDS220 was a good scope... but in year 1996. :( :--
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Well, the Tektronix guys think that their TBS1000 is better than other similar scopes of the same class... They made competitive fact sheets. Try reading them just for fun... What do you think? IMHO the TBS1000 has a better ADC chip and longer 5 year warranty... And that is all... Then TBS1000 has many disadvantages... Anyway, the TDS220 was a good scope... but in year 1996. :( :--
A minor little point they missed on the Rigol comparison :
TBS 1062 £547 DS1052E £225
TBS1102 £726 DS1102E £273
Tek are really getting desperate.
RIP.
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Come on guys... wake up and look at your new chinese overlords. They are gone to beat the shit out of you ...
Danaher don't care. They will run a lean tight ship and milk every last dollar of profit from every existing product line until the division (or company) dies.
Dave.
This is exactly what the LeCroy field staff told me. Danaher is not investing into Tek. Reverse to that LeCroy benefited from consolidation with Teledyne and their knowledge in GaAs and microwave technologies.
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Well, the Tektronix guys think that their TBS1000 is better than other similar scopes of the same class... They made competitive fact sheets. Try reading them just for fun... What do you think? IMHO the TBS1000 has a better ADC chip and longer 5 year warranty... And that is all... Then TBS1000 has many disadvantages... Anyway, the TDS220 was a good scope... but in year 1996. :( :--
A minor little point they missed on the Rigol comparison :
TBS 1062 £547 DS1052E £225
TBS1102 £726 DS1102E £273
Tek are really getting desperate.
RIP.
The Rigol comparison is just wrong. It says the Rigol can only save 8K data points. They clearly don't want to know about the 1Meg long memory in the Rigol.
Apparently, one of the big "advantages" of the Tek scopes is that they come in slower more expensive models. You get the option to pay much more for much less - yippee!
It says the Rigol has no Autorange button. I wonder what the "Auto" button on the Rigol does then?
Rigol menus can be three deep, whereas the Tek menus ar only two deep - so what? If the depth of menu's is such a problem, why didn't Tek have menus that are only one level deep? Or zero deep - if they had no menus at all, they would be the best DSO on the market according to their logic.
No mention at all of Rigol's 1GByte/S sampling with one channel!
The Rigol has no probe check function. So what - there is the standard probe test/calibrate pin.
Very, very sad.
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It's easy enough to make fun of the TBS 1000 marketing as is, without resorting to ridiculous arguments.
The Rigol comparison is just wrong. It says the Rigol can only save 8K data points. They clearly don't want to know about the 1Meg long memory in the Rigol.
They list 500 MS/s for all channels in that same table. The Rigol can't do 500 MS/s in dual channel mode with 1 M of memory. This is a weakness in its specs, and you can count on competitive comparisons to exploit it. That's how these things work. They're not wrong, just incomplete.
Apparently, one of the big "advantages" of the Tek scopes is that they come in slower more expensive models. You get the option to pay much more for much less - yippee!
They also list a 150 MHz model that the DS1000E series can't match.
It says the Rigol has no Autorange button. I wonder what the "Auto" button on the Rigol does then?
Autoset != autorange. Tek has both. Autorange will leave other settings alone and will continuously adjust the horizontal/vertical scale. Not terribly important, but could come in handy for some measurements that require both hands on the probe/DUT.
Rigol menus can be three deep, whereas the Tek menus ar only two deep - so what? If the depth of menu's is such a problem, why didn't Tek have menus that are only one level deep? Or zero deep - if they had no menus at all, they would be the best DSO on the market according to their logic.
This is a ridiculous argument, especially for an engineer. A larger screen is better, so scopes should incorporate a 30" TFT? Lighter is better, so the device should be lighter than air?
No mention at all of Rigol's 1GByte/S sampling with one channel!
Like I said, a weakness in its specs that competitors will exploit. They don't list sample rates for single channel operation.
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It's pretty trivial to whip up a competitive fact sheet by finding really minor stuff your unit has that the competitor does not.
Conveniently leave out a few big things were you get your arse kicked, and other features that the competitor does not, and you have an impressive number of green ticks.
The customer has to weed through the waffle.
Notice they won't bother comparing with a similar priced Rigol 2000, because that would be beyond embarrassing.
Dave.
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This is exactly what the LeCroy field staff told me. Danaher is not investing into Tek.
I'm sure there is some investment still happening, but what level that is, and what that allows them to bring to market, is in great doubt.
Can we expect some badge engineering next?
Dave.
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At least that would bring them in line with Agilent and Lecroy ;).
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they were simply idiots to sell any share to the danaher corp
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Danaher just sold Apex to Bain Capital (remember Mitt Romney). Bain now owns Apex which owns Weller. Lets hope Bain does not decide to shut it down, break up Apex, and sell the Weller name off to China. I'd hate to eventually have China be the only source for soldering tools.
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Spain is already the only source for soldering tools... JBC ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I am only half kidding. >:D
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Danaher just sold Apex to Bain Capital (remember Mitt Romney). Bain now owns Apex which owns Weller. Lets hope Bain does not decide to shut it down, break up Apex, and sell the Weller name off to China. I'd hate to eventually have China be the only source for soldering tools.
haha another "hit" for german quality. i wonder why did they kept the high prices for tools which are simple as far the stations go not speaking of the tips/irons themselves