EEVblog® Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: tunk on May 18, 2023, 12:57:12 pm
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New toy(?) scope from Fnirsi, DPOX180H:
- claimed 180HMz (-3dB) and 500MSps
- two channels
- 5mV-10V/div, 5nS-50S
- 20MHz signal generator
- 2.8" screen
- (initial) price $140
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005564788266.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005564788266.html)
https://youtu.be/G5f4Rkf83H8 (https://youtu.be/G5f4Rkf83H8)
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It certainly looks good.
I'm curious about the first tests, whether it works as well as it seems in the video.
EDIT: Here is one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoOh0gypVII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoOh0gypVII)
EDIT: Another one (RU):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBV2arVqrk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBV2arVqrk)
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interesting ....
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Ordered one. Will arrive early June.
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A PCB screendump from the youtube video:
- Allwinner F1C100s SoC
- Anlogic EF2L45LG144B FPGA
- two unidentified AD(?) converters
IIRC, quite similar to the 1013d and 1014d.
Wonder if the real bandwidth is ~30MHz like the others, or if they have
done some new developments? At least they don't claim it's 1GSps.
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First impressions which do not come from the advertising department can be seen here.
(https://art.mysku-st.net/uploads/arts/06/95/81/2023/05/21/d3cf4d.jpg)
(https://img.alicdn.com/bao/uploaded/i3/O1CN01eFbvNg1UTI8Q8LSzL_!!0-rate.jpg)
(https://img.alicdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/O1CN01B3RvrM1UTI8Q8ML0B_!!0-rate.jpg)
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First impressions which do not come from the advertising department can be seen here.
Is the "digital phosphor" a marketing gimmick?
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Is the "digital phosphor" a marketing gimmick?
You can see different trace intensities.
Looks pretty good anyway
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Thanks. Could you verify if it is really a 180MHz?
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Thanks. Could you verify if it is really a 180MHz?
No, I just found the pictures on the web.
I think you ordered one?
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Yes, will arrive in early June, so in a few weeks I know more.
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The photos show a disagreement in the voltage measurements. A couple of them are by a factor of 10 so could be accounted for by the FNIRSI being mis-configured for 10x probes.
But the 50Mhz signal shows 20Vpp while the signal generator says it’s outputting 1.6V (unless I’m misunderstanding). That can’t be accounted for by a mistaken 10x config?
Is the FNIRSI already down 40% at 50Mhz?
(edit: fix some phone auto-correct typos - I should never post from a phone...)
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/msg4577548/#msg4577548 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/msg4577548/#msg4577548)
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The photos show a disagreement in the voltage measurements. A couple of them are by a gator of 10 so could be accounted for by the FNIRSI being mis-configured for 10x probes.
But the 50Mhz signal shows 20Vpp while the digger says it’s outputting 1.6V (unless I’m misunderstanding). That can’t be accounted for by a mistaken 10x config?
Is the FNIRSI already down 40% at 50Mhz?
Yes, i think it is set to x10 and should be x1, but I assume it is the same setting for all 3 images.
FNIRSI always shows 20.x VPP and RIGOL shows 2.2x VPP.
It does not show exactly the same as the RIGOL, but amplitude-wise there ist nothing special at 50MHz imo.
I don't know why the signal generator shows 1.6 VPP and how that is plugged together.
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The photos show a disagreement in the voltage measurements. A couple of them are by a gator of 10 so could be accounted for by the FNIRSI being mis-configured for 10x probes.
But the 50Mhz signal shows 20Vpp while the digger says it’s outputting 1.6V (unless I’m misunderstanding). That can’t be accounted for by a mistaken 10x config?
Is the FNIRSI already down 40% at 50Mhz?
Yes, i think it is set to x10 and should be x1, but I assume it is the same setting for all 3 images.
FNIRSI always shows 20.x VPP and RIGOL shows 2.2x VPP.
It does not show exactly the same as the RIGOL, but there ist nothing special at 50MHz imo.
I don't know why the signal generator shows 1.6 VPP and how that is plugged together.
If signal generator shows 1.6V RMS that is 2.256 V P-P for sinewave. In which case Rigol is doing excellent job.
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$140 converts to $A211, which is starting to stretch the budget a bit for something from FNIRSI.
The Ali express link is a tad higher at $A219.82, followed by a note that it was 40% off from $A 366.36. ::)
"Tell 'em they're dreaming!"
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The Ali express link is a tad higher at $A219.82, followed by a note that it was 40% off from $A 366.36. ::)
This is normal on Ali.
Everything is at least 40% "cheaper" than the fantasy price, which no one ever pays.
On Banggood (https://www.banggood.com/FNIRSI-DPOX180H-Handheld-Phosphor-Digital-Oscilloscope-180MHz-3DB-50000wfms-or-s-Dual-Channel-20Mhz-Signal-Generator-ZOOM-XY-FFT-p-1988900.html) it is a little different.
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If signal generator shows 1.6V RMS that is 2.256 V P-P for sinewave. In which case Rigol is doing excellent job.
I believe the JDS6600 signal generator only shows Vpp (I don't have one so I'm not certain, but the reviews I have seen only ever talk about setting it to Vpp).
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The scope has arrived early!.
I like the UI, the buttons are a bit stiff, but that will improve over time (I hope).
And the first signal I inputted shows a problem:
Input 80MHz sine at 2Vpp gives 80MHz, 608mVpp on the Fnirsi.
Also discovered a bug: I set cursors at -2V and 2V, but the location values shown in the window are 808mV and 4.04V.
See full resolution at https://drive.google.com/file/d/14e3F9jxrBu7EsTDNAcI0UgPWvEX24nBy/view?usp=share_link .
Mailed Fnirsi and asked for a firmware update regarding the cursors.
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It's a FNIRSI. They outright lie about their specifications. If they say it's 180MHz, expect about 60MHz at which point it will begin to loose it's tiny mind.
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For the bandwidth I already had low hopes, but the cursor bug shouldn't be there.
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For the bandwidth I already had low hopes
Are you sure you measured it correctly and in the same way as the Rigol (dummy load, etc.)?
I can hardly imagine it being that bad.
Where would the -3dB limit be?
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The photo I linked to shows the test settings. There is a 50ohm termination and rigol and fnirsi get the same signal via a T-bnc.
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Hi RAPo
And what is the bandwidth according to your measurement?
Just the point where Pk-Pk falls below -3 dB (0.707) compared to, say, 100kHz?
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The promo video looks promising, and even at just 60MHz would be decent in this form factor. :-//
What's the lowest price here in late May 2023.?
Are there any coupons that can get it lower than 135.99 USD.??
Coupons from China, Banggood https://rb.gy/xpoit
Likely so new that all stock, is still abroad in far-east
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The Owon HDS272S delivers the promised 70 MHz -3 dB point, but is usable much higher. And the FW is much better than the analogous Hantek. UI is everything when you make it small.
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I cannot replicate the measurement, even with probe attenuation=100x ;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoOh0gypVII (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoOh0gypVII)
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Hi RAPo
And what is the bandwidth according to your measurement?
Just the point where Pk-Pk falls below -3 dB (0.707) compared to, say, 100kHz?
I'm a bit busy. I will need to get my TinySA Ultra for reliable testing. See PSG908/FY6900 testing.xlsx (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13mJYuReFLc3eW-nU6etbFtxqnjQdt4YvNSxCgd6tT9k/edit?usp=sharing) for preliminary results.
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Mailed Fnirsi and asked for a firmware update regarding the cursors.
Fnirsi responded within one day: results are sen d to their engineers. They will respond back within a few days.
While on the topic, I asked for some "enhancements":
Could a long press CH1/CH2 button enable/disable the signal?
Could a double click on CH1/CH2 button enable/disable the bandwidth filter?
Could a long press on the trigger button cycle through the trigger modes?
Could a long press on the orig-button cycle through the coupling mode of the active channel?
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Is the signal generator ground independent of scope ground? ( galvanically isolated)?
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Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
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I've just finished some discussion with Fnirsi. On the good side: they respond quickly, and are really looking into things.
But the cursor problem took a strange turn.
On my question the V1 and V2 measure, I got as the answer:
V1 and V2 are the voltage cursors of channel 1 and channel 2, respectively to distinguish
Presenting evidence that this cannot be right (see images), the response was:
The measurement principle of the cursor is to measure according to the vertical sensitivity of the channel.
Therefore, when measuring, it is necessary to measure the voltage cursor of the channel separately to obtain an accurate value.
V1V2 is the vertical sensitivity set according to channel one and channel two; to measure the voltage value of the range selected by the cursor
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I'm giving up on this scope and bought a Zeeweii DSO2512G.
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Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
I consider it a bug implemented as a feature :P
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I'm giving up on this scope and bought a Zeeweii DSO2512G.
:-DD
The DSO2512G is probably not better overall, but definitely cheaper.
Good luck!
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Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
I consider it a bug implemented as a feature :P
On the other hand, with "Digital Phosphor" they seem to be trying to imitate a CRO and they apparently showed square waves like that.
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Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
& it becomes more visible.I consider it a bug implemented as a feature :P
On the other hand, with "Digital Phosphor" they seem to be trying to imitate a CRO and they apparently showed square waves like that.
Not really, analog 'scopes all displayed the rise & fall of square wave signals.
Because the beam was more briefly in any discrete point during such transitions, the display was less bright than the top & bottom "flat" bits of the waveform but wind up the intensity, & it becomes more visible.
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Presenting evidence that this cannot be right (see images), the response was:
I'm not quite sure if I understand you.
I believe the DPOX180H simply displays the difference between the dashed lines in relation to the respective vertical sensitivity (V1 Ch#1, V2 Ch#2).
It doesn't show absolute levels afaics (Like Y1, Y2 with the Zeeweii).
This is strange, but not directly a bug imo.
The DSO2512G displays the two absolute values Y1, Y2 and the difference dY in relation to the vertical sensitivity setting of the selected channel.
If you want to see the values in relation to the vertical sensitivity setting of the second channel, you can switch the channel priority. The values are then displayed in green.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-2ch-pocket-dsosg-sigpeak-dso2512g/?action=dlattach;attach=1772165;image)
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The statement from Fnirsi was: V1 and V2 are the voltage cursors of channel 1 and channel 2, respectively to distinguish.
In the image below, both channels are turned on and have the same sensitivity.
Turning the cursor *measurement* on, you see two different green dashed lines.
Both V1 and V2 have the same value. Moving one of the green lines, both values V1 and V2 change. Why on earth would you need that?
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The statement from Fnirsi was: V1 and V2 are the voltage cursors of channel 1 and channel 2, respectively to distinguish.
In the image below, both channels are turned on and have the same sensitivity.
Turning the cursor *measurement* on, you see two different green dashed lines.
Both V1 and V2 have the same value. Moving one of the green lines, both values V1 and V2 change. Why on earth would you need that?
Yes, it's the same 'Delta' as dY on the DSO2512G, but it is displayed for both channels at the same time.
If both channels have the same vertical sensitivity, the same value is displayed twice.
That's why you see 4.04V and 808mV on your other picture (https://drive.google.com/file/d/14e3F9jxrBu7EsTDNAcI0UgPWvEX24nBy/view), because 1V is set on the 1st channel and 200mV on the 2nd channel.
I don't like that the absolute levels are missing, but it's not really a bug imho. It's a feature! :-DD
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but why is moving one cursor line to show a difference in both V1 and V2?
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but why is moving one cursor line to show a difference in both V1 and V2?
Because it shows basically the same thing twice. Once in the vertical sensitivity of Ch1 and once in the vertical sensitivity of Ch2.
You probably expect these values (V1 and V2) to say something about the position of the dotted lines, but they don't!
They only show the difference between the dotted lines in the respective unit of Ch1 and Ch2.
Compared to the ZEEWEII DSO2512G, they only show dY, not Y1/Y2
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and why would you need that?
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gonna laugh at all this
people ask thoses little thingys a lot, you want good scope performance at this size ???
i would say lots of falses claims / specs etc ... you have to get prices cuts somewhere ?
but if Fnirsi respond and they are taking comments i'll say its good for them and users
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and why would you need that?
I don't know exactly. I don't like it either, but I get what it does.
If this is a bug, it's at the user interface level ("bad decision"), not necessarily in the implementation.
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Yes, they do reply, are looking into the things and that is a good thing.
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I don't know exactly. I don't like it either, but I get what it does.
If this is a bug, it's at the user interface level ("bad decision"), not necessarily in the implementation.
Yes, it is in the UI and, therefore, straightforward to change.
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people ask thoses little thingys a lot, you want good scope performance at this size ???
I only ask what they advertise
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people ask thoses little thingys a lot, you want good scope performance at this size ???
i would say lots of falses claims / specs etc ... you have to get prices cuts somewhere ?
It's clear that in this price range, cheap hardware is used wherever possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean that something unusable has to come out if you put it together intelligently.
And that's where the ZEEWEII guys have done something right with the DSO2512G, in my opinion.
Of course, it has its drawbacks,maybe even some serious ones, but it doesn't suck and makes the most of itself.
Simply as much as is possible for this price and that alone is an achievement.
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This is exactly what you will see with digital phosphor with any brand. Vertical line should NOT show up. That is what you would see in the good old analog days.
So they implemented their digital phosphor correctly.
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Multilanguage manual is now available:
https://img.wqdres.com/res/0/20230607/137da06a6083471eafe6762c85f03110.pdf
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This is exactly what you will see with digital phosphor with any brand. Vertical line should NOT show up. That is what you would see in the good old analog days.
So they implemented their digital phosphor correctly.
Nope! the vertical line does show up----it is less visible because the beam spends much less time tracing out that transition.
Wind up the intensity on an analog 'scope & you will see it.
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The specifications don't make sense on this. It states rise time of 2.5ns and a bandwidth of 180MHz. BUT a 2.5ns rise time indicates a bandwidth of only 140MHz. Vertical sensitivity looks better than most at 5mV, but then horizontal timebase only goes down to 5nS which is less than half the resolution of similar scopes.
Overall, the number of features looks impressive. Being a Fnirsi, I suspect there were some liberties taken with the specifications.
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I asked for a description of the .wav file (the file that contains the data if you press SAVEP.
Answer: "Sorry, we don't have a .wav file, the technician didn't share it with us".
(I'll know that there are some github repo's doing this, but they are not for the DPOX.
So I asked: "Why does your technician not want that the users use the data that (S)He provides?"
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I asked for a description of the .wav file (the file that contains the data if you press SAVEP.
I would assume it is the general WAV (Waveform Audio File Format) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV) format.
Isn't it?
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No!!
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Complain about the absence (not display) of the vertical lines of the waveforms. Is this a bug?
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See https://github.com/roberttidey/FNISR1013DScope for a description of. Wav file as generated by a 1013d scope.
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Complain about the absence (not display) of the vertical lines of the waveforms. Is this a bug?
Well, you have to crank up the intensity in the old days. With the dpoxh you have to crank up the zoom.
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Are there really no other settings so that the waveform in normal mode is completely visible on the same meander without magnification?
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well they respond quickly, but for now its is a no:
I understand how you feel;
Some documents are technical secrets; About the particularity of the product;
We are temporarily unable to obtain the document;
Thank you for your patience and tolerance with us;
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Does anyone else have an offset problem with the signal generator output?
My unit got a 300-400mV offset.
(https://i.imgur.com/6EcQkkH.png)
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My values are as indicated in the picture.
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Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
it depends on horizontal resolution setting. If you're using slow horizontal resolution, the rise edge is too fast, so it will not be noticed. But it will appears when you switch to a fast horizontal resolution, for example 5 ns/div.
I asked for a description of the .wav file
WAV file is a standard container to store waveform data as a data chunks, it also allows to store additional information in a custom defined data chunks. Here is WAV format description: http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/ (http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/)
If it supports save to a WAV file it's nice feature, because standard WAV file can be opened and analyzed with variety of software tools.
Just wonder, how much samples it can capture to a WAV file at once?
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Well, you have to crank up the intensity in the old days. With the dpoxh you have to crank up the zoom.
it seems that you have that FNIRSI DPOX180H device. Could you please share results for some tests? It will allow us to find the actual sample rate, bandwidth, ADC resolution and noise floor for this device.
Please give me WAV file taken on your FNIRSI DPOX180H for the following conditions:
1) open input at max horizontal resolution (just disconnect probe from BNC and take WAV snapshot at 5 ns/div)
2) 1-10 MHz clean sine taken with max horizontal resolution (5 ns/div) with amplitude about 80% from full display.
3) use the same sine and settings as on step 2, but increase sine amplitude 3x times, so that it cannot fit on the screen.
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Dear RAPo ! you wrote that you will have a TinySA Ultra - could you use it to check the FNIRSI DPOX180H by applying a rectangular signal at high frequencies from 10 megahertz and above to its inputs, which is available on TinySA Ultra ?
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this screenshot shows that Rigol shows large surges on the leading and trailing fronts on a square wave in amplitude almost in the entire cell - but Fnirshi does not see him
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will do that tomorrow.
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Will do that tomorrow. Today is a busy day at work :(
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here in real life :palm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_m-V0Ozj80 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_m-V0Ozj80)
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Sample rate of 500MHz is less than three times the specified band width.
BAD SPECMANSHIP
For a bandwidth of 180MHz the sample rte should ideally be much closer to 10 x the bandwidth
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Can someone take WAV snapshots on Fnirsi DPOX180H with open BNC port and with some sine on input at 5 or 10 ns/div? Please share it here for analysis.
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Mine seems do not have this problem.
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)
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Has anyone found a way to change the signal generator amplitude and offset?
Or is it supposed to be centered around 0V as in the above post and users manual?
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Can you try again in DC input mode? Your unit is in AC mode.
Mine seems do not have this problem.
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Mine seems do not have this problem.
Can you please take WAV snapshots taken for open BNC input and for sine on the input? Both for 5 or 10 ns/div.
If you don't have sine source, then use square wave, but use max horizontal resolution (5 or 10 ns/div)
Attach these WAV files here, so we can analyze it. Thanks
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That is not possible.
I've modified my scope in order to have the signal gen output on the bottom using bananajacks. Planning to add some circuitry in order to change offset and amplitude.
Has anyone found a way to change the signal generator amplitude and offset?
Or is it supposed to be centered around 0V as in the above post and users manual?
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As indicated before, it is not a standard wav file. It has not a RIFF Hheader (see image).
The wav file contains measurement and scope settings data.
On GitHub there are repositories (https://github.com/wavoigt/FNIRSI-1013D-WAV-Viewer-in-Excel-VBA) that decode the .wav output from a FNIRSI 1013D.
FNIRSI is not willing to share the .wav specs for the DPOX.
Some people complain that you don't see vertical lines with square waves.
What do you think?
Bug or feature?
it depends on horizontal resolution setting. If you're using slow horizontal resolution, the rise edge is too fast, so it will not be noticed. But it will appears when you switch to a fast horizontal resolution, for example 5 ns/div.
I asked for a description of the .wav file
WAV file is a standard container to store waveform data as a data chunks, it also allows to store additional information in a custom defined data chunks. Here is WAV format description: http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/ (http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/)
If it supports save to a WAV file it's nice feature, because standard WAV file can be opened and analyzed with variety of software tools.
Just wonder, how much samples it can capture to a WAV file at once?
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@radiolistener In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwrmuwmLhxFvrzriHSfYCJbPr3dEVcHB/view?usp=sharing) you'll find the requested wav files. It is a sine with 1V or 3V amplitude, generated by my MSO5104. Please report your analysis here.
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@radiolistener In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwrmuwmLhxFvrzriHSfYCJbPr3dEVcHB/view?usp=sharing) you'll find the requested wav files. It is a sine with 1V or 3V amplitude, generated by my MSO5104. Please report your analysis here.
Thanks, but it seems that it has unknown format, so I even don't see a sine wave inside....
The format described from github link is incompatible with these files.
Could you please give also just one snapshot with a full display sine in both - WAV and BMP/PNG format (and maybe there is CSV or something like that, it also will help to decode it), because there is needs to understand how it should looks like in order to try decode it...
this is how it looks if try to read it as BE int16 from 0x2c0A offset. does it look like what was shown on the display?
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The scope does not generate .csv files.
I think fnirsi changed the header/scope settings block to accommodate (in respect to the fnirsi 1013D) the new features (e.g. FFT, auto bandwidth amplitude).
The GitHub description can be used as a first start but needs adaptation. E.g. the conversion from byte value to triggertype:
fn triggertype_val(s8 value){
str rval="";
if (value==0) {rval=" Auto";}
if (value==1) {rval="Single";}
if (value==2) {rval="Normal";}
return rval;
};
is still valid.
How did you generate the image in your post?
Why is the value of 0x2c0A offset? It seems to me the offset should be greater to disregard the first part of the image.
Also, do mind there are two sets of measurements data in the .wav file:
raw measurement data and displayed measurement data, which one did you choose to make the graphic?
In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WNZQWrnEsstUTb4NZ8RBykCKnz96WJGa/view?usp=sharing), you'll find the requested .bmp (and associated .wav files) for open,5MHz-1V/5MHz-3V and 10MHz-1V/10MHz-3V.
@radiolistener In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwrmuwmLhxFvrzriHSfYCJbPr3dEVcHB/view?usp=sharing) you'll find the requested wav files. It is a sine with 1V or 3V amplitude, generated by my MSO5104. Please report your analysis here.
Thanks, but it seems that it has unknown format, so I even don't see a sine wave inside....
The format described from github link is incompatible with these files.
Could you please give also just one snapshot with a full display sine in both - WAV and BMP/PNG format (and maybe there is CSV or something like that, it also will help to decode it), because there is needs to understand how it should looks like in order to try decode it...
this is how it looks if try to read it as BE int16 from 0x2c0A offset. does it look like what was shown on the display?
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)
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How did you generate the image in your post?
Why is the value of 0x2c0A offset? It seems to me the offset should be greater to disregard the first part of the image.
I just view the file and found a data which looks like raw waveform stream. It's definitely has 2 bytes per sample, but it's not clear what is the format of each sample.
Also, do mind there are two sets of measurements data in the .wav file:
raw measurement data and displayed measurement data, which one did you choose to make the graphic?
yes, I understand that. But unfortunately the format of FNIRSI DPOX180H is completely different from FNIRSI-1013D. So, it cannot be decoded with description provided on github page for FNIRSI-1013D. I will try to decode it with your files which include BMP with actual picture on display. But it seems that it may be not so easy, because format looks a little bit mixed and complicated.
Can you please share also wav+bmp for a square wave in that way to keep several periods on the display?
Update: still not sure that I decoded it properly, but at a glance it looks that there is 300 samples per screen. Since screen is 5*12=60 ns, it means that there is . Which means 0.2 ns per sample or 5 GS/s. Probably they using equivalent time sampling to average sample points using different phase shift for several captures.
The raw data is started at 0x2F38, each sample 2 bytes, 300 samples per screen. The screen is repeated many times, probably for digital phosphor accumulation.
But 5 GS/s looks crazy even if they used equivalent time sampling, so I'm not sure if I decoded it properly... :)
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Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R69j0BVsC8DiUXz3_Fslj0E7UlGr-0w_/view?usp=sharing) is the square wave set, with an extra bonus: ch2_open;-)
Can you please share also wav+bmp for a square wave in that way to keep several periods on the display?
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I discovered a tiny bug. If you go to the param measure menu and then channel 2, remove all measure items, and go out of the menu. The screen shows 1 items instead of 0.
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I discovered a tiny bug. If you go to the param measure menu and then channel 2, remove all measure items, and go out of the menu. The screen shows 1 items instead of 0.
Hugo Ferreira also found a bug in this area:
https://youtu.be/XoOh0gypVII?t=1605
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But I can disable all measurements from channel 2 ...
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Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R69j0BVsC8DiUXz3_Fslj0E7UlGr-0w_/view?usp=sharing) is the square wave set, with an extra bonus: ch2_open;-)
Thanks, yes, I'm right. Samples are started at offset 0x2f38.
Each sample has 2 bytes in a Little Endian integer format.
Sample count per screen is at offset 0x011f in a Big Endian integer format.
100 kHz square wave file has 24000 samples per screen. Here is how ADC waveform actually looks like in comparison on how it's displayed on DPOX180H display:
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We have 5 uS * 12 = 60 uS per screen / 24000 samples = 2.5 nS/sample = 400 MS/sec sample rate.
Not bad :)
But as I understand, this 400 MS/sec for 5 uS/div is probably equivalent sample rate, the same as 5 GS/sec for 5 nS/div.
If ratio for 5 uS/div is 10, then ADC works at 40 MS/sec for 5 uS/div.
Since it works as stroboscopic osciloscope at equivalent sample rate up to 5 GS/sec, this is definitely interesting device.
Here is more detailed ADC noise:
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I still not sure how they achieved so high sample rate, classic equivalent sampling should not produce so high noise...
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Thanks. For reference, here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xMuBDkpcw2IhB2rqxkfO7I9552W11KFX/view?usp=sharing) is the input from the MSO50104 signal generator.
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forum users who already have FNIRSI DPOX180H in their hands
could you apply to the inputs of this oscilloscope
square wave with steep leading edges? it’s just that no one has done this so far - this would remove a lot of questions about the device
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forum users who already have FNIRSI DPOX180H in their hands
could you apply to the inputs of this oscilloscope
square wave with steep leading edges? it’s just that no one has done this so far - this would remove a lot of questions about the device
Please specify what is this .
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In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nag3fWtkCPi3vzMZuyFnwOjMugrIXeh8/view?usp=sharing), you'll find screen dumps and wave files for a range of TinyUltra generator (clean mode) from 10MHz-170MHz in two versions:
tiny Ultra->Dpox->auto->save bitmap+save wav and
tiny Ultra->Dpox->manual best vertical resolution->save bitmap+save wav.
Because the auto function does not work well for freq>100MHz.
Dear RAPo ! you wrote that you will have a TinySA Ultra - could you use it to check the FNIRSI DPOX180H by applying a rectangular signal at high frequencies from 10 megahertz and above to its inputs, which is available on TinySA Ultra?
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RAPo- is a square wave with a fast rise time less than 1 nanosecond
TinySA Ultra seems to have MAX 2870 installed, it gives rise to less than 1 nanosecond
set to square wave TinySA Ultra
Are you sure, TinySA Ultra can output square waves below 800Mhz?
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you want to input a 1.2GHz freq @-20.0dBm in a 180MHz scope? Below 0.8G there is only a sine.
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Are you sure, TinySA Ultra can output square waves below 800Mhz?
The tiny SA can do an awful lot, but not that.
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A Si5351A module can do that up to 160MHz with a rise time of ~1ns.
It's almost for free but you need an Arduino, ESP etc. to control it.
https://www.mikroshop.ch/Home.html?gruppe=10&artikel=2058 (https://www.mikroshop.ch/Home.html?gruppe=10&artikel=2058)
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did not immediately see that tinySA Ultra it can synthesize a square wave only from 240 megahertz
Si5351 judging by the data of this seller, at a frequency
100 MHz rise time -920 ps at 149.7 MHz rise time 660 ps
https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005002591845151.html?sku_id=12000021298933740&spm=a2g2w.productlist.search_results.0.20f34aa6VcnQ8C
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There are many different implementations.
Everything is "on board" with this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000977947100.html) (The second "color" for ~$30: SI5351A STM32 W TFT).
Neither an external microcontroller nor PC/software is required.
There is also a Chinese video there.
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I just don't understand this youtube reviews. In any video, they don't measure basic crucial parameters like bandwidth or sampling. The guy is surprised that he has an amplitude of 1.11Vpp instead of 1Vpp at 100MHz, and he connected the generator directly without a terminator... it's useless. Simply connect that terminator, and for sure, there will be a significant drop in amplitude at 100MHz.
I perform the sampling check in a hardware-based manner by connecting to the A/D converter on the board and measure its frequency and all doubts are gone.
Sooner or later, I will have this oscilloscope in my workshop and there will be a review, but for now, I wanted to assess whether it's worth buying just for tests or if it's better to request a sample.
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I just don't understand this youtube reviews. In any video, they don't measure basic crucial parameters like bandwidth or sampling.
Yes. With some Youtube testers, I get the impression that they have even less of a clue than I do, and that means something! ;)
Others get the devices for free from the manufacturers and in return are more interested in presenting the features and bling-bling than in testing the limits.
Maybe we should create a guide on how Youtubers should test such devices. ;)
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And then we should make that list mandatory for any "send for free" review, enforced by youtube ;-)
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Some resistors and capacitors showed on the photo are soldered by hand. It's rather bad soldering with flux residue. I saw a different photo probably on this topic (i cannot find it now) with the same soldering.
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Other side of the PCB.
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Are there any western EU resellers yet, but it will likely be way more expensive, but it looks like it come down in price quite a bit lately, and atm around 110 Euro with delivery & VAT included.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4882829/#msg4882829 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4882829/#msg4882829)
Even cheaper for certain regions like Poland Czech,Hungary, Slovakia, Slovenia, Greece as they all got extra dedicated product-coupon. (BGCZBP10, BG6MEGA32, BGRJ180H)
but overall it looks like its a mixed halfbaked cake, this handheld Fnirsi scope.
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it is not clear how the FNIRSI DPOX180H interprets a square wave
these are screenshots from the review - at this frequency of 7.2 MHz, Rigol's signal is similar to what it can display within its capabilities - the output of the SI5351 is a square wave with a fast rise time - something like this it looks like on Siglent at a frequency of 10 megahertz
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Really 7.2MHz? the screen dump on the DPOX says 22.89MHz
it is not clear how the FNIRSI DPOX180H interprets a square wave
these are screenshots from the review - at this frequency of 7.2 MHz,
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Arduino module on SI5351 on the display shows 7.2 MHz
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Really 7.2MHz? the screen dump on the DPOX says 22.89MHz
That's the second (blue) channel...
it is not clear how the FNIRSI DPOX180H interprets a square wave
these are screenshots from the review - at this frequency of 7.2 MHz, Rigol's signal is similar to what it can display within its capabilities - the output of the SI5351 is a square wave with a fast rise time - something like this it looks like on Siglent at a frequency of 10 megahertz
I don't trust this YT tester and his setup.
I also wonder if a 50MHz Rigol is really a good reference to test a (supposedly or really) 180MHz device?
Also, no one seems to make a distinction between one and two active channels although it is documented that with two channels it has only 90MHz bandwidth etc.
Nobody seems to have the desire to really test this oscilloscope. |O
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Aldo22 -Rigol DS 1052E has an honest 1 gigasamples per second and besides it is converted to 100 megahertz - Dave tested it to minus 3 dB and he got an 136 megahertz
it is in this video of his from 15 minutes 20 seconds
used here , the Williams generator is just what need to test Oscilloscopes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBYMePUFinQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBYMePUFinQ)
in theory, if the FNIRSI DPOX180H has the second channel enabled, the sampling rate will drop by half - yes - but no one has yet checked the sampling rate in single-channel mode
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Aldo22 -Rigol DS 1052E has an honest 1 gigasamples per second and besides it is converted to 100 megahertz - Dave tested it to minus 3 dB and he got an honest 130 megahertz
Yes, but the one from YT Richard is not. He says it is an unmodified 50MHz Rigol (at 24:25).
Anyway, I just don't get the impression that this scope test is very well thought out.
As I said, I don't even know if channel 2 is on or off.
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it is not clear how the FNIRSI DPOX180H interprets a square wave
these are screenshots from the review - at this frequency of 7.2 MHz
how si5351 is connected to oscilloscope? Direct coax with 50Ω terminator?
Probably they using some incorrect algorithm in order to show "beautiful wave" instead of real signal...
As we saw before (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4925821/#msg4925821) they don't show waveform details such as noise and overshoot... It seems that they shot themselves in the foot by using such "filtering", so it cannot show square wave with a fast rise time properly...
I wonder to know how they acquire buffer with 5 GS/s resolution at 5 ns/div on 100-200 MHz ADC? Probably here is the answer why it shows incorrect waveform...
Nice attempt to manufacture device, the UI looks really nice with this cool digital phosphor, but it seems that you cannot believe it :)
This is classic issue of such Chinese devices...
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screenshot with 50 ohm Siglent input not mine, taken from another forum http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread.php?38850-%CA%E0%F7%E5%F1%F2%E2%EE-%F1%E8%E3%ED%E0%EB%E0-SI5351/page3 (http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread.php?38850-%CA%E0%F7%E5%F1%F2%E2%EE-%F1%E8%E3%ED%E0%EB%E0-SI5351/page3)
and this screenshot from the video where the comparison with the rigol is connected directly to the output of the SI5351 - the photo shows
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Don't use probe, use direct coax cable with 50Ω terminator on oscilloscope side. Probe has very crooked frequency response, you cannot see good square wave even with good probes.
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I wonder to know how they acquire buffer with 5 GS/s resolution at 5 ns/div on 100-200 MHz ADC? Probably here is the answer why it shows incorrect waveform...
Nice attempt to manufacture device, the UI looks really nice with this cool digital phosphor, but it seems that you cannot believe it :)
This is classic issue of such Chinese devices...
I would like to see a decent test first before judging the device.
At least, this time they explain unusually precisely in their promotional material how the thing works.
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S959cdf6a605c4f84ae2977223a1a5356R.jpg)
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Really 7.2MHz? the screen dump on the DPOX says 22.89MHz
That's the second (blue) channel...
it is not clear how the FNIRSI DPOX180H interprets a square wave
these are screenshots from the review - at this frequency of 7.2 MHz, Rigol's signal is similar to what it can display within its capabilities - the output of the SI5351 is a square wave with a fast rise time - something like this it looks like on Siglent at a frequency of 10 megahertz
I don't trust this YT tester and his setup.
I also wonder if a 50MHz Rigol is really a good reference to test a (supposedly or really) 180MHz device?
Also, no one seems to make a distinction between one and two active channels although it is documented that with two channels it has only 90MHz bandwidth etc.
Nobody seems to have the desire to really test this oscilloscope. |O
I agree with you that the YT scope test is not well thought out. I'm not quite sure it would matter though. Here is a 10 megahertz signal from a SI5351 both with and without proper termination on an 100 megahertz scope. The blue trace is connected directly to the scope without a terminator and the yellow is with the proper 50 ohm termination. Both traces still look reasonably close to a square wave whereas the screenshots of the DPOX180H look nothing like the expected square wave. Even if both channels were on limiting the bandwidth to 90 MHz the signal should still be recognizable as a square wave.
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I agree with you that the YT scope test is not well thought out. I'm not quite sure it would matter though. Here is a 10 megahertz signal from a SI5351 both with and without proper termination on an 100 megahertz scope. The blue trace is connected directly to the scope without a terminator and the yellow is with the proper 50 ohm termination. Both traces still look reasonably close to a square wave whereas the screenshots of the DPOX180H look nothing like the expected square wave. Even if both channels were on limiting the bandwidth to 90 MHz the signal should still be recognizable as a square wave.
That could be. I don't know, but I would like to know. ;)
Anyway, the screen at ~20MHz looks pretty much like the one from the Rigol.
I can't really imagine the device is giving up at a 10MHz square wave from a SI5351.
(https://img.alicdn.com/bao/uploaded/i4/O1CN01B3RvrM1UTI8Q8ML0B_!!0-rate.jpg)
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Oke, I'll bite. In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_qTp9Mk-2RThtFMWzHNitr4w_jhG4Y2M/view?usp=sharing), you see how the DPOX reacts to a square wave file from a MAX2871 at max amplitude.
There are two series images.
Serie 1: only channel 1 is active.
Serie 2:both channels are active, triggering on channel 2.
The measurement is taken with 1x probe attenuation, terminated with a 50Ohm at the input of the scope.
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One can call this a toy.
The front end of that scope is resonant at about 200 MHz, with roughly 25 % maybe 30 % overshoot. Professional digital scopes are tuned to 5 % or less overshoot. Non-resonant means their front ends are capable to at least twice the bandwidth, without any steep filter.
Regards, Dieter
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Oke, I'll bite. In this file (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_qTp9Mk-2RThtFMWzHNitr4w_jhG4Y2M/view?usp=sharing), you see how the DPOX reacts to a square wave file from a MAX2871 at max amplitude.
There are two series images.
Serie 1: only channel 1 is active.
Serie 2:both channels are active, triggering on channel 2.
The measurement is taken with 1x probe attenuation, terminated with a 50Ohm at the input of the scope.
The square wave looks good in 1CH mode up to 60MHz.
For the 2CH mode, 40MHz is a bit much as a start.
I think it delivers for its price ($126 at Banggood) as far as I can see.
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At least, this time they explain unusually precisely in their promotional material how the thing works.
4 x 125 MS/s in interleave is 500 MS/s, but their WAV file taken at 5 ns/div contains waveform with 5 GS/s sample rate (300 samples per screen which contains 12 divs x 5 ns = 0.2 ns per sample). And this is not interpolation, because it has one sample spikes...
So there is no answer how they acquire it with 5 GS/s resolution.
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One can call this a toy.
The front end of that scope is resonant at about 200 MHz, with roughly 25 % maybe 30 % overshoot. Professional digital scopes are tuned to 5 % or less overshoot. Non-resonant means their front ends are capable to at least twice the bandwidth, without any steep filter.
Regards, Dieter
You've obviously not used a LeCroy DDA-125 1.5 GHz DSO. Some use cases prioritize risetime over over shoot. I adjust analog scopes to <3%.
DSO designers violate almost every rule in data acquisition.
Reg
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It depends on what you want to do. Certainly for repairs having this handheld scope is better than having no scope. Some people think in terms of audio work, video work, digital etc. For example you can use the scope to look at a RS232 or I2C interface. USB and SPI will be more difficult. What is the record length? Will there be a decoder?
If one wants to do a measurement, the deviations can be 25 or 30 % as i wrote. So you will see whether there is a signal but it will be difficult to characterize. For example it will be difficult to say whether a transmission line is terminated properly.
Instead of buying toy electronics i always tried to get a pre-owned professional scope. The first one was a Tectronix 2465. For digital scopes it was Lecroy plus some VXI stuff from HP. I am wondering about the safety of handheld scopes for measurements on power supplies connected to mains. Probably one should use an isolation transformer like with other scopes. If you are serious about electronics, you will need more than US$ 125.
Regards, Dieter
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Fnirsi has acknowledged that this is a bug:
Hi, dear friend
We confirm on our device;
This phenomenon occurs on the device; it may be abnormal display;
The technician recommends that you restore the device to factory settings;
Just check the device status after reset;
Sincerely,
Warning this deletes your current saved configuration.
Of course, if you delete all measurements from channel 2, the wrong number appears again.
I discovered a tiny bug. If you go to the param measure menu and then channel 2, remove all measure items, and go out of the menu. The screen shows 1 items instead of 0.
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There seems to be a new firmware available that fix some of the issues mentioned in this forum. I received this mail from FNIRSI
Hi, dear friend,
DPOX180H dual-channel phosphor digital oscilloscope has updated the latest firmware,
The firmware fixes three issues:
1: When measuring a square wave, you can see the rising and falling vertical lines.
2: Modify the name of the vertical voltage cursor measurement
3: Modified the text of the switching language interface.
Upgrade steps:
1: Open the settings menu and turn on USB sharing.
2: Use the data cable to connect to the computer,
3: At this time, the computer will pop up a U disk, and directly pull the firmware to the U disk.
4: Click the device's shutdown button, then restart it, and wait for the firmware upgrade to complete before it can work normally.
Firmware download link:https://www.mediafire.com/file/nckrih8t0rmchq2/DPOX180H-V20.zip/file
I couldn't tryed it because the osciloscope that I bought hasn't arrived yet. But is nice to know that FNIRSI is listening what the users ask for.
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Yes, I've got the same mail from Fnirsi.
A good thing they take customer support serious.
The vertical line is indeed visible.
The cursors alas still have the same behaviour, but it is clear that the lower measures theCh2 potential difference and no delta_y :-\ .
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Thanks for the firmware. I upgraded my unit.
I hope they add offset and amplitude for the signal generator to make it useful.
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After having sold my rigol ds1052e many years ago, I decided to get myself this dpox180h.
reviews seemed promising, even though the limitations and real specifications are not very clear until now...
It arrived very quickly, costing 117€ and being compact to store away in my "electronics toolbox".
I'm pleasantly surprised by the user menu. I thought it would be much more painful to operate a scope without turning nobs.
I could not make good use of the FFT Display as I could not find out how to measure in the FFT plot or use the coursurs.
Any hints?
While playing around it locked up/crashed several times.
One feature I'm missing is trigger delay (or trigger hold-off), to retrigger for instance on a new CAN-Frame and not some where in between. There is the option of "HF Reject" in the triggersettings, which is kind off working, but not reliably.
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After having sold my rigol ds1052e many years ago, I decided to get myself this dpox180h.
reviews seemed promising, even though the limitations and real specifications are not very clear until now...
If you are short on space, indeed the DPOX is handy, but I never would do away a proper scope (rigol MSO5104 and several analogue ones) .
It arrived very quickly, costing 117€ and being compact to store away in my "electronics toolbox".
I'm pleasantly surprised by the user menu. I thought it would be much more painful to operate a scope without turning nobs.
Indeed that is a good point for the DPOX. The menu structure is well layout and very easily accessible by special function keys like CH1, CH2, TRIG.
I could not make good use of the FFT Display as I could not find out how to measure in the FFT plot or use the coursurs.
Any hints?
The cursors implementation is a very weak point. The upper cursor line gives measurements according to the potential of channel 1, and the lower cursor line according to channel 2.
The new firmware has improved in explaining what is shown on the screen but is very cumbersome. Also, there is no delta_indication.
As for the FFT, the best way is to turn FFT on, press auto and then two times the H- key.
In that way, more of the signal is visible on the screen, and the FFT is shown in a better perspective (see associated images showing the FFT of a square wave and the FFT (before/after pressing 2xH-) of a dual-tone signal).
Measuring FFT values is very difficult, I use it more for quantitative results (are there harmonics?) instead of qualitative measurements (how large is a peak exactly).
While playing around it locked up/crashed several times.
One feature I'm missing is trigger delay (or trigger hold-off), to retrigger for instance on a new CAN-Frame and not some where in between. There is the option of "HF Reject" in the triggersettings, which is kind off working, but not reliably.
Yes, triggering is very basic. HF-reject gives a more stable signal but does not improve the trigger functionality like hold-off.
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this video shows some flaws in the software when displaying and time-stretching the captured square wave - you can also see that it is quite slow and it is unlikely that there are declared 50,000 thousand images per second
for example, the portable Owon HDS series is faster - despite the fact that 10,000 shots per second are declared there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtCHY1t-PKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtCHY1t-PKs)
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This device has persistence mode? I can't find any information regarding this feature. I've been using the zeeweii dso2512g to repair smps and it has been enough, specially the persistence mode a feature that I'm using alot. How this fnirsi dpox180h compares to the zeeweii dso2512g? anyone owns both that could kindly do a comparison?
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How this fnirsi dpox180h compares to the zeeweii dso2512g? anyone owns both that could kindly do a comparison?
I would also be interested in a "conclusion" about the DPOX180h!
I have a DSO2512g and from what I've learned I'd say that if you have one, you don't need the other.
The DPOX180h has better specs and more/different features, but the DSO2512g is quite mature. It has never shown any oddities. That's worth a lot!
It's a viable tool within its capabilities.
Maybe I would also buy a DPOX180h today if I didn't have a DSO2512g, but I don't need a second device of this kind at the moment.
I might buy a Rigol DHO800 when it becomes available and I fancy a better oscilloscope.
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How this fnirsi dpox180h compares to the zeeweii dso2512g? anyone owns both that could kindly do a comparison?
I would also be interested in a "conclusion" about the DPOX180h!
I have a DSO2512g and from what I've learned I'd say that if you have one, you don't need the other.
The DPOX180h has better specs and more/different features, but the DSO2512g is quite mature. It has never shown any oddities. That's worth a lot!
It's a viable tool within its capabilities.
I agree with you but i need to buy another one of these portable devices, and since there is an alternative to the zeeweii my only doubt is about the persistence mode. I own a silent sds1104x-e but because it's not portable it has been off for quite some time, in fact I'm planning on buying a tablet scope owon tao series or a micsig, haven't done my full research, and then sell the siglent, because i need portability. anyway getting back the subject of portable devices, I've consider these little devices really usefull and easy to carry, and I'm not afraid of making a mistake and burn one, because they are cheap and easy to replace.
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I agree with you but i need to buy another one of these portable devices, and since there is an alternative to the zeeweii my only doubt is about the persistence mode.
Do you mean 1 second persistence or infinite persistence? (image).
I've never seen that on the DPOX180h, but like I said, I don't own one.
I've consider these little devices really usefull and easy to carry, and I'm not afraid of making a mistake and burn one, because they are cheap and easy to replace.
Yes, these small, inexpensive devices have many good qualities in practice imo, not just disadvantages.
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The evaluation is also based on how easy the scope is to operate.
I have both, like the DSO2512g more because even with my fat fingers I can connect a probe easily there.
Also, the placement of the function gen. ports is better at the DSO2512g (in fact I have modded my DPOX180h to have the generator output at the bottom.
There is one oddity for the DSO2512g: I cannot save an x-y plot.
I would also be interested in a "conclusion" about the DPOX180h!
There is no persistence on the DPOXH, but you can turn on the colour temperature to see the most frequently visited parts of the signal.
I have a DSO2512g and from what I've learned I'd say that if you have one, you don't need the other.
The DPOX180h has better specs and more/different features, but the DSO2512g is quite mature. It has never shown any oddities. That's worth a lot!
It's a viable tool within its capabilities.
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There is one oddity for the DSO2512g: I cannot save an x-y plot.
Yes, sometimes I miss that too.
I helped myself with a USB video capture card (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004282107316.html) on the AV output of the DSO2512g.
This way I can view all the oscilloscope display on the laptop and save screenshots and videos of it without a camera.
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Do you mean 1 second persistence or infinite persistence? (image).
I've never seen that on the DPOX180h, but like I said, I don't own one.
I use mostly infinite persistence to view how stable and clean a smps outputs voltage in no load/load condition in a period of time, normally 3-5min for no load condition. when i turn on/off the smps i use the trigger to trace spikes. could not be the proper way of doing things but has been working for years and 100% in catching imperfections.
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who can check some issue with generator, on my device output signal has same frequency in the range 200khz->399khz, 400khz->599khz, 600khz->799khz and so on...
restore to factory settings does not help.
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Will do that tomorrow. Is it on every channel? What is the amplitude of the output? For all of the primary signals (sine, square, triangle)?
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The measurement is taken with 1x probe attenuation, terminated with a 50Ohm at the input of the scope.
Are you talking about a 10x/1x standard oscilloscope probe in 1x mode?
If so you cannot terminate it at the scope end and expect reasonable results. They are built with high impedance wire (~300 ohms or more for a 1m probe). The proper way to do this is use a straight 50 ohm coax cable from the generator and terminate that with 50 ohms at the scope. An alternative (if you don't have a straight 50 ohm coax) is to terminate at the source with 50 ohms, then couple directly with a BNC to probe adapter and use the 10x setting on the probe.
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Will do that tomorrow. Is it on every channel? What is the amplitude of the output? For all of the primary signals (sine, square, triangle)?
yes on both channels, amplitude does not change, I tested on sine and square waves.
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No problems here (direct cable, tested on all channels, sine/square/triangle).
A sweep also shows up on the frequency measure.
Has it worked okay before?
who can check some issue with generator, on my device output signal has same frequency in the range 200khz->399khz, 400khz->599khz, 600khz->799khz and so on...
restore to factory settings does not help.
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it is only couple of days with me, new bought.
pls see attachments, quite clear seen problem.
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Ah, you are testing the internal generator. I was using an external generator.
Redid my test: no problem.
The image shows a flat line, mine shows the signal itself.
Does the scope measure other signals?
it is only couple of days with me, new bought.
pls see attachments, quite clear seen problem.
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Ah, you are testing the internal generator. I was using an external generator.
Redid my test: no problem.
The image shows a flat line, mine shows the signal itself.
Does the scope measure other signals?
it is only couple of days with me, new bought.
pls see attachments, quite clear seen problem.
can you try measure 300khz not 300hz?
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I did a retest with 410kHz.
There is indeed an error. It looks like the internal generator bottoms out.
I will contact FNIRSI.
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FNIRSI reported back: the problem is forwarded to the engineers.
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For those that own the DPOX180H and used it for a while, a few Qs:
(I don't care about the build-in funcgen)
- What issues/errors did you encounter? In this thread a cursor issue was helpfully described and some mention of crashes. Any more of that? Measurements that are wrong? Stability? Are any of the hori/verti division settings wonky?
- Can you clarify the 'screen protector' situation? In one video the unit was damaged by peeling off what looked like a screen protector and in another there were bubbles but the reviewer gave up on removing the layer. How does it look on your unit and did you remove it?
- Are any of the 'fancier' features this unit has over others actually usable/helpful? I mean stuff like the digital phosphor display, XY display, whatever that FFT-but-not-quite mode is, etc.
- Do you have a better idea of the actually usable BW? Some tests with a proper funcgen, properly hooked up, sine/saw/square?
- Can you deal with the UI? I imagine using a scope without pots/encoders is always a bit of a pain, but how does this unit hold up in actual use?
- Do you own or plan on buying any of the alternatives in the same price range (OWON HDS242/HDS272, upcoming Zoyi ZT-703S, DSO2512G, Hantek 2C42)? Any you'd prefer over this unit?
Thanks! :D
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For those that own the DPOX180H and used it for a while, a few Qs:
- What issues/errors did you encounter? In this thread a cursor issue was helpfully described and some mention of crashes. Any more of that? Measurements that are wrong? Stability? Are any of the hori/verti division settings wonky?
No wrong measurements (but I still don't like how cursors are handled). The scope is stable. Getting a stable triggering is difficult because there is no holdoff.
No wonkiness.
- Can you clarify the 'screen protector' situation? In one video the unit was damaged by peeling off what looked like a screen protector and in another there were bubbles but the reviewer gave up on removing the layer. How does it look on your unit and did you remove it?
I have opened the scope but didn't find a screen protector, no bubbles here.
- Are any of the 'fancier' features this unit has over others actually usable/helpful? I mean stuff like the digital phosphor display, XY display, whatever that FFT-but-not-quite mode is, etc.
digital phosphor is nice, but the screen is small so there is really little use for me.
XY works well.
FFT gives only an indication, no real measurements are possible.
- Do you have a better idea of the actually usable BW? Some tests with a proper funcgen, properly hooked up, sine/saw/square?
see my posts in this thread. I used a Juntek PSG9080, a uni-t DG20252 and a MAX2870 chip.
- Can you deal with the UI? I imagine using a scope without pots/encoders is always a bit of a pain, but how does this unit hold up in actual use?
No problems. The buttons are still a little hard to press, but nothing worse. I've suggested some extra functions :
Could a long press CH1/CH2 button enable/disable the signal?
Could a long press on the triggerbutton cycle through the trigger modes?
Could a long press on orig-button cycle through coupling mode of the active channel?
for the buttons, maybe they will add them in.
One thing that is really cumbersome for my fat fingers is getting the probes locked in.
I've modified my DPOX to have the signal generator output to the bottom, just like on the Zeeweii DSO2512G
- Do you own or plan on buying any of the alternatives in the same price range (OWON HDS242/HDS272, upcoming Zoyi ZT-703S, DSO2512G, Hantek 2C42)? Any you'd prefer over this unit?
I have an Owon HDS272S (which works better than the DPOX). The Zeewei is better for getting the probes locked in, better for FFT and has video output.
If the price and functionality are right for the ZT-703S I will buy one. I really like the multimeter part, but the scope mode should have a duty cycle measurement.
And I have a legion better: the MICSIG STO1004. The digital phosphor is much better there (and the whole UI is very pleasant to use). But of course you pay more $$$.
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Thanks so much for the detailed answers! Interesting that you say the HDS272 'works better'. It looks pretty good, which is why I put it on my list of alternatives to the FNIRSI. I have to say I'd prefer a pure scope without DMM/AWG as I'm already with the ones I got and wouldn't want the UI/unit cluttered with stuff I don't need, but I'm curious why you like it better.
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I have an Owon HDS272S (which works better than the DPOX).
In what sense does it work better?
In theory, the DPOX should be better.
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I have an Owon HDS272S (which works better than the DPOX).
In what sense does it work better?
In theory, the DPOX should be better.
Yeah, that's why I'm asking all this stuff, I can read the specs and feature lists myself, but with these less expensive Chinese devices it all comes down to which features actually work and which specs are actually reached.
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The Owon works better because:
probes are easily locked in,
has shielded BNC connectors,
the channel settings are 2 button presses instead of 5 on the DPOX
You can change the acquisition depth
Cursor implementation is as I like it
Auto is much quicker and a peak-detect/sample acquisition mode
X-Y mode is very fast
It is a 3 in 1, scope,AWG, multimeter.
So better in the sense of handling, not in the sense of functionality/bandwidth.
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probes are easily locked in,
has shielded BNC connectors,
the channel settings are 2 button presses instead of 5 on the DPOX
You can change the acquisition depth
Cursor implementation is as I like it
Auto is much quicker and a peak-detect/sample acquisition mode
X-Y mode is very fast
It is a 3 in 1, scope,AWG, multimeter.
The cursors, channel settings and the fast Auto seem like a real plus for me. I watched some videos and those do seem decent.
I never had a FNIRSI device, how much can we expect from them in terms of firmware? Do they support their products for a while and do some notable changes? Might be worth for me to hold out for a couple of months if there's a realistic expectation that the DPOX180H will improve.
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FNIRSI is a company that is stepping up the maturity ladder, better marketing, better products, more customer service in respect to previous years.customer support is really quick and a whole lot (at least 3 :D) of engineers are looking into problems. There is already a firmware update out. They are growing, but don't expect the same level as Owon, Rigol.
There is a race going on for cheap scopes, FNIRSI has set a bar, but others will follow.
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Sounds great, please everybody keep sending bug reports and feature requests then :)
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For those that own the DPOX180H and used it for a while, a few Qs:
(I don't care about the build-in funcgen)
- What issues/errors did you encounter? In this thread a cursor issue was helpfully described and some mention of crashes. Any more of that?
while I was studying device it stopped responding several times, power off/on restored to normal work.
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while I was studying device it stopped responding several times, power off/on restored to normal work.
Yes, I've seen your posts! Difficult to say if you got a bum unit or if there's a firmware issue, I guess :/
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So better in the sense of handling, not in the sense of functionality/bandwidth.
The Zeeweii DSO2512G works without being a pain in the ass and is still the cheapest two-channel oscilloscope available.
It is enough for many hobby users, if you do not need more than say 40MHz on both channels.
Above that, it is simply: Who pays more gets more, unless he is ripped off ;-)
I think it is no mistake to have a DSO2512G.
Even if you later find that you want more, it is so cheap that you will not regret the purchase.
As with cheap DMMs you will find a use for it later if you want to "spare" the expensive device.
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I've got a reply from FNIRSI.
Problem is acknowledged, will be solved in the next firmware:
Hi, dear friend, We are very grateful for your understanding and support!
This problem will be fixed in the new firmware; the new firmware is still under development;
You can follow our official website;
http://www.fnirsi.cn/support (http://www.fnirsi.cn/support)
If there is a new plan; we will post it above;
have good day!
by Fnirsi
Sincerely,[Rose]
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A new firmware V30 has appeared on the fnirsi website:
2023/07/24 V30
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fix the problem:
1: Signal generator frequency problem
2: Some devices cannot be turned on after firmware upgrade
3: After pausing, only a single frame waveform is displayed, which is convenient for analyzing the protocol
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Indeed and item 1,3 confirmed working now.
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Somewhere above i wrote my doubts about the safety of handheld scopes.
Now i found this image in a OWON ad. They provide isolated BNC sockets, in case somebody is using the handheld on high potential. With a metal BNC this would pose a risk for the user, unless all BNC connectors are covered by protective caps or plugs with insulation.
How about the ground clips? I don't know.
Regards, Dieter
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yep as stated in my replay#154. What do you mean by groundclips? The ground part of the probe?
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@RAPo
hello,
as you got in contact with Fnirsi support, could you suggest them the following:
1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
2. Internal generator has significant DC offset. Do you plan remove it?
3. In current FW (3.0) it not possible to see FW version. Maybe show it on startup screen?
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Somewhere above i wrote my doubts about the safety of handheld scopes.
Now i found this image in a OWON ad. They provide isolated BNC sockets, in case somebody is using the handheld on high potential. With a metal BNC this would pose a risk for the user, unless all BNC connectors are covered by protective caps or plugs with insulation.
How about the ground clips? I don't know.
Regards, Dieter
I saw this aspect mentioned in several reviews for the OWON, and I'd be wary of using this scope with a hot ground. I'd assume both channels still share a ground. Is the USB connection on a separate ground? Is there an exposed ground point somewhere else, like next to the 1Khz calibration signal or something? And like you said, what about say a ground clip on the probe on another channel. It just doesn't seem like a safe / good idea to use the scope this way.
@RAPo
hello,
as you got in contact with Fnirsi support, could you suggest them the following:
1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
2. Internal generator has significant DC offset. Do you plan remove it?
3. In current FW (3.0) it not possible to see FW version. Maybe show it on startup screen?
Do they have a public support email address or contact form?
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Somewhere above i wrote my doubts about the safety of handheld scopes.
Now i found this image in a OWON ad. They provide isolated BNC sockets, in case somebody is using the handheld on high potential. With a metal BNC this would pose a risk for the user, unless all BNC connectors are covered by protective caps or plugs with insulation.
How about the ground clips? I don't know.
Regards, Dieter
I saw this aspect mentioned in several reviews for the OWON, and I'd be wary of using this scope with a hot ground. I'd assume both channels still share a ground. Is the USB connection on a separate ground? Is there an exposed ground point somewhere else, like next to the 1Khz calibration signal or something? And like you said, what about say a ground clip on the probe on another channel. It just doesn't seem like a safe / good idea to use the scope this way.
Do they have a public support email address or contact form?
All of the grounds are linked internally on the OWON, including the probe calibration ground. Even though it is trivial to float the scope. It's still a better idea to use a differential probe.
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I didn't quite understand this "shielded" advantage of the Fnirsi.
If the probes BNC are metallic, that doesn't help much, does it?
With the Zeeweii and the PP250 probes, I no longer have anything metallic around.
The signal generator connections are also recessed on the DSO2512G.
Or did I get this wrong?
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The idea seems to be that the handheld scope has the same safety regime as a multimeter - with no metal parts to touch. Except with multiple interfaces that's a bit difficult. Of course if somebody is aware of the danger, they will protect themselves, like the red plastic cover in the last image. Many probe ground clips can be attached without touching the metal. Anyway one has to keep an eye on dangling ground clips..
Regards, Dieter
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will pass it on.
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The ground from the shielded BNC's are connected to the ground of the USB-c
The ground from the shielded BNC's are connected to the ground of the 1kHz reference.
It is a well known fact that if you want a scope floating *don't connect itto USB from a computer*.
I saw this aspect mentioned in several reviews for the OWON, and I'd be wary of using this scope with a hot ground. I'd assume both channels still share a ground. Is the USB connection on a separate ground? Is there an exposed ground point somewhere else, like next to the 1Khz calibration signal or something? And like you said, what about say a ground clip on the probe on another channel. It just doesn't seem like a safe / good idea to use the scope this way.
The BNC's ground are connected to each other.
If you don't connect the usb-c to a computer you're scope is floating (you have no reference to earth ground).
That can be done but with care. Search for: "how not to blow up your oscilloscope".
Do they have a public support email address or contact form?
I correspond with them using the FNIRSI store at alieexpress.
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A discussion about BNC's ground is pointless in this context.
Fluke scopemeters have galvanically isolated channels Grounds and their BNC have plastic bodies.
The question of price.
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I upgraded to V30.
I found some bug with Param measure menu still exist,
When you restore to Factory settings it shows: 2 items for channel1 (V-pp and F) and shows 1 items for channel2 (F).
If to uncheck these items and Save current configuration, although after restart those unchecked items not appeared but their footprint still exist (display: 2 items for ch1 and 1 items for ch2).
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yes thats already reported.
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FNIRSI replied with:
Hi, dear friend, thank you very much for your feedback;
I will submit this suggestion; we will continue to optimize and release new firmware in the future;
thank you
@RAPo
hello,
as you got in contact with Fnirsi support, could you suggest them the following:
1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
2. Internal generator has significant DC offset. Do you plan remove it?
3. In current FW (3.0) it not possible to see FW version. Maybe show it on startup screen?
-
FNIRSI replied with:
1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
I don't think it is a good idea.
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All serious scopes do it
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Nope, all serious scopes give you the option to do it ;-)
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1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
I don't think it is a good idea.
DSO2512G does it and I think it's a very good idea.
This is one of the reasons why working with the Zeeweii is quite pleasant.
A very fast "Auto" function is another reason.
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1. Is it possible to automatically save current settings on power off?
I don't think it is a good idea.
DSO2512G does it and I think it's a very good idea.
This is one of the reasons why working with the Zeeweii is quite pleasant.
A very fast "Auto" function is another reason.
lets assume that you enter such mode where device is not running normal, for now you can power off-on, but if this will be saved you go on circle.
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All serious scopes do it
I have two quite serious oscilloscopes (RIGOL DS2072A and FLUKE PM3384A) both of them have preinstalled settings, none of them save on power off.
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Nope, all serious scopes give you the option to do it ;-)
have you tried to use DPOX180H on 10-20-50s timebase? I think it is quite useless especially on 50s, device not responding properly.
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Quote from: ru_tash on Today at 05:59:12 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=377636.msg4981060#msg4981060)
>Quote from: Evi on Today at 00:58:01 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=377636.msg4980769#msg4980769)All serious scopes do it
I have two quite serious oscilloscopes (RIGOL DS2072A and FLUKE PM3384A) both of them have preinstalled settings, none of them save on power off.
RIGOL DS2072A does save settings
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lets assume that you enter such mode where device is not running normal, for now you can power off-on, but if this will be saved you go on circle.
I see what you mean, but I've had the DSO2512G for 7 months now and nothing like this has ever happened (That's another reason why I like the Zeeweii).
If it did happen (unlikely), then I could probably remove the battery connector.
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RIGOL DS2072A does save settings
it depends on setting, and this is configurable. i don't mind if in DPOX180H will have same feature - but this will change menu stucture.
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Agreed, it was not my request I'm only the messenger.
Nope, all serious scopes give you the option to do it ;-)
have you tried to use DPOX180H on 10-20-50s timebase? I think it is quite useless especially on 50s, device not responding properly.
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nope battery connector will not help, there has to be a way (restore factory settings or something like that) to break out the loop.
lets assume that you enter such mode where device is not running normal, for now you can power off-on, but if this will be saved you go on circle.
I see what you mean, but I've had the DSO2512G for 7 months now and nothing like this has ever happened (That's another reason why I like the Zeeweii).
If it did happen (unlikely), then I could probably remove the battery connector.
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Well, there is already a menu option (Menu|Systemsettings|Save current configuration) to save the current settings for restoring at start-up. One extra item (Save settings automatically when powering off) is not a big deal.
RIGOL DS2072A does save settings
it depends on setting, and this is configurable. i don't mind if in DPOX180H will have same feature - but this will change menu stucture.
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hello is dpox180h able to measure the amplitude of a spike using cursors like i did (points A - B) with the dso2512g? and return the correct dY value? see picture attached.
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would be like this, CH2
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would be like this, CH2
Is this the issue discussed earlier where each cursor is for a different channel? I don't see a delta measurement?
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would be like this, CH2
Is this the issue discussed earlier where each cursor is for a different channel? I don't see a delta measurement?
actually it is delta.
the cursors behavior I explain to myself the following: both cursors work for both channels simultaneously, so system calculates delta via multiplying vertical sensitivity of each channel with geometrical distance between cursors.
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Thats correct. The cursors at the DPOX are different than the cursors in the Zeewei.
For the DPOX it is stated (bold is mine):
The measurement principle of the cursor is to measure according to the vertical sensitivity of the channel.
Therefore, when measuring, it is necessary to measure the voltage cursor of the channel separately to obtain an accurate value.
V1V2 is the vertical sensitivity set according to channel one and channel two; to measure the voltage value of the range selected by the cursor
So you cannot subtract the cursor's values.
See the image where the same 5Vpp sine signal is applied to both scopes.
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But the channel 2 cursor is relative to the channel 2 waveform, which doesn't even exist in this example. So could I basically have two channel 1 cursors by having the vertical scale and vertical offset of both channels identical, but I still need to subtract them myself?
Also are the cursors not color coded to the channel, what is 'S' here?
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So is it true that the DPOX doesn't have numeric feedback (voltage level) of the absolute position of the cursors?
For example, if I want to set the cursor at 90% of VTop, do I have to do it visually and approximately?
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And that's why I state that the cursor function is not right implemented at the Fnirsi scope.
You mean the S in the CSR at the right top of the letter S at the lower vertical cursor?
CSR = all direction keys only control the cursor
S at the lower cursor line: means, the lower cursor bar is selected to move (press auto in csr-mode to switch to the upper cursor line).
Cursor lines are always green and not associated with channel colors.
But the channel 2 cursor is relative to the channel 2 waveform, which doesn't even exist in this example. So could I basically have two channel 1 cursors by having the vertical scale and vertical offset of both channels identical, but I still need to subtract them myself?
Also are the cursors not color coded to the channel, what is 'S' here?
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So is it true that the DPOX doesn't have numeric feedback (voltage level) of the absolute position of the cursors?
For example, if I want to set the cursor at 90% of VTop, do I have to do it visually and approximately?
correct
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actually it is delta.
the cursors behavior I explain to myself the following: both cursors work for both channels simultaneously, so system calculates delta via multiplying vertical sensitivity of each channel with geometrical distance between cursors.
So is it true that the DPOX doesn't have numeric feedback (voltage level) of the absolute position of the cursors?
For example, if I want to set the cursor at 90% of VTop, do I have to do it visually and approximately?
Sorry, Ok, now I finally get it, it shows the delta between the cursors but for each channel. That is really weird, especially since as you point out there's no way to get an actual value for the cursor. I guess you could place one cursor on 0? Is that how the cursors also work horizontally?
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Ok now I finally get it, it shows the delta between the cursors but for each channel. That is really weird, especially since as you point out there's no way to get an actual value for the cursor. Is that how the cursors also work horizontally?
Nope there is only one time base so for horizontal cursors both the time difference (T) and the frequency (F=1/T) are displayed.
But you can only move the cursor lines, not set it to a value.
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All my DSO's remember the last setting, That saves me a lot of time. I often make measurements that need a lot of settings. My serious scopes are the 60 MHz Siglent SHS1062 scopemeter and my 300 MHz R&S RTB2004, also the R&S 350 MHz scope I had before (can not remember the type-number)
But I have a "low budget" (compared to real scopes, not to useless graphical indicator toys >:D ) scope-meter, the CEM DT9989 this one does not remember the settings but I do not mind because I do not use it a lot. Just a handy compact thing I can take with me. If I know upfront I need a scope outside the lab I take the Siglent.
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would be like this, CH2
thanks ru_tash for the example. it really is a strange way of using cursors, they should modify this function and make it similar to what we are used to. it's a shame to operate this way because this little device could be a best seller in this price range. if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
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if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
Seems like they accept suggestions & bug reports by messaging their AliExpress store?
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if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
Seems like they accept suggestions & bug reports by messaging their AliExpress store?
I already sent them a message through AliExpress page.
I have found a new video showing a new bug/crash of this device when using the usb function. Try on your units to see if it happens.
https://youtu.be/NLNTrn9KVrk
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I don't think this will be solved. The developers state it is working as described in the manual (which indeed it is).
I've had several conversations with them and the version 2 software only made a clearer indication on the screen, but no change of functionality.
would be like this, CH2
thanks ru_tash for the example. it really is a strange way of using cursors, they should modify this function and make it similar to what we are used to. it's a shame to operate this way because this little device could be a best seller in this price range. if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
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I also had several messages sent to them.
Never had the USB lockup.
if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
Seems like they accept suggestions & bug reports by messaging their AliExpress store?
I already sent them a message through AliExpress page.
I have found a new video showing a new bug/crash of this device when using the usb function. Try on your units to see if it happens.
https://youtu.be/NLNTrn9KVrk
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would be like this, CH2
thanks ru_tash for the example. it really is a strange way of using cursors, they should modify this function and make it similar to what we are used to. it's a shame to operate this way because this little device could be a best seller in this price range. if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
I would not call Fnirsi DPOX180H as device for measurement, it is more like for signal evaluation, so cursor function is just to help you not to move finger along the grid on screen counting intervals.
look at the attachments: I measure lithium battery with both polarity, and result not as expected. Vp and Vmax not equal for + and - connections. The real voltage of battery 4.09V
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I wrote my suggestions to fnirsiofficialcs@gmail.com
and now got an answer:
> Hi, Dear friend; Thank you very much for your suggestion;
> 1. Can the current settings be saved automatically when the power is turned
> off? ----Need to save settings in settings.
> 2. Internal generator has significant DC offset. Are you going to delete
> it? --------- Technicians are trying to fix it.
> 3. The firmware version cannot be checked in the current firmware (3.0).
> Maybe show it on the splash screen? ----------I will mention this plan to
> the technical staff;
>
> You can follow our official website;
> http://www.fnirsi.cn/support (http://www.fnirsi.cn/support)
> If there is a new plan; we will post it above;
> have good day!
> by Fnirsi
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I guess you could place one cursor on 0?
You can always find a workaround, why not measure with a ruler? ;D
Imo they started this wrong.
They should not attempt to display cursor information for both channels at the same time on a small screen.
That's probably why they left out the Y1_1, Y2_1, Y1_2, Y2_2 because the screen was getting too crowded.
The cursor box on the Zeeweii is also a bit large/full, but at least it only contains the measurements for the selected channel (See yellow/green in the attached image).
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agreed.
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I don't think this will be solved. The developers state it is working as described in the manual (which indeed it is).
I've had several conversations with them and the version 2 software only made a clearer indication on the screen, but no change of functionality.
would be like this, CH2
thanks ru_tash for the example. it really is a strange way of using cursors, they should modify this function and make it similar to what we are used to. it's a shame to operate this way because this little device could be a best seller in this price range. if fnirsi reads these posts it should follow the advice of those who use oscilloscopes. I'm suspending purchases for now until I see if fnirsi decides to improve this function.
well if fnirsi don't improve this product it will definitely looks like an unfinished project for school. If they follow this topic like they said on the replied email, they will create a product that could stop being a toy to view colors. At this moment we also need to buy some extras like a calculator and a ruler :palm: , or we can save some money and start doing the math by hand...
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You can always find a workaround, why not measure with a ruler? ;D
Imo they started this wrong.
I agree completely, what they did is a bad choice since it's super confusing initially and still awkward when you get what they're doing.
look at the attachments: I measure lithium battery with both polarity, and result not as expected. Vp and Vmax not equal for + and - connections. The real voltage of battery 4.09V
Hm, I wonder how this could possibly be so wrong. The same thing happens when you just measure your bench PSU, even with a longer timebase?
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.. At this moment we also need to buy some extras like a calculator and a ruler :palm: , or we can save some money and start doing the math by hand...
well you could save it as a .wav file, go to the right offset and look for the measured values (see this post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4923481/#msg4923481)). :box:
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Has anyone verified the bandwidth of these yet? I've seen references like "go back and read my 300 posts, it's in there somewhere". I did that, but must have blinked because I did not see a plain and direct statement of measured bandwidth. Can anyone let me know?
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Did the same test but with my Owon 3033 power supply.
Indeed a difference if the polarity is reversed.
I guess you could place one cursor on 0?
You can always find a workaround, why not measure with a ruler? ;D
Imo they started this wrong.
They should not attempt to display cursor information for both channels at the same time on a small screen.
That's probably why they left out the Y1_1, Y2_1, Y1_2, Y2_2 because the screen was getting too crowded.
The cursor box on the Zeeweii is also a bit large/full, but at least it only contains the measurements for the selected channel (See yellow/green in the attached image).
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That's really interesting, I wonder what causes this bug and what support says about this :)
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Do not exaggerate.
An oscilloscope is not a multimeter.
DC accuracy is +- 2%, so that's still within tolerance.
Zeeweii had a similar problem and I guess it is fixed in the latest versions.
Read the comment from 25 Apr 2023: "Arrived to Kyiv in 23 days..."
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html
Btw: Isn't there a measurement type called "AVG" or something like that?
The Zeeweii has "Mean" for DC measurement.
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I'm okay with not presenting exact numbers. But not changing polarity to different numbers (even in spec).
There is a measurement called V-avg. Will test this later.
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This post (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4932025/#msg4932025) gives a statement that I concur with.
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Do not exaggerate.
An oscilloscope is not a multimeter.
DC accuracy is +- 2%, so that's still within tolerance.
Zeeweii had a similar problem and I guess it is fixed in the latest versions.
Read the comment from 25 Apr 2023: "Arrived to Kyiv in 23 days..."
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html
Btw: Isn't there a measurement type called "AVG" or something like that?
The Zeeweii has "Mean" for DC measurement.
From Kyiv guy: "He sent me a file with new firmware and detailed instructions for installing it and additional calibration of the device"
That is good for Zeeweii, let's see if Fnirsi will not hide similar instructions for his consumers.
By the way, I discovered that measurements get more or less acceptable if to turn-off another channel.
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V avg gives a bit better results.
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Bravo!
Precision measuring DC voltage with oscilloscope is a new achivement in a world of measurements!
Maniacs, try this with serious scopes and observe the same results.
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Doesn't the DPOX180H include a DVM? I mean for DC i normally use a DVM if i want some accuracy.
Regards, Dieter
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Bravo!
Precision measuring DC voltage with oscilloscope is a new achivement in a world of measurements!
Maniacs, try this with serious scopes and observe the same results.
The lack of absolute correctness or the difference when reversing polarity? The former seems absolutely fine to me, but the latter strikes me as off.
Doesn't the DPOX180H include a DVM? I mean for DC i normally use a DVM if i want some accuracy.
Nope!
---
Another question:
I was looking again at similarly priced scopes and was wondering if there's anything around the hundred bucks mark that includes any protocol decoding?
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As stated multiple times above: we are not in a race to measure voltages to x-digit precision with an oscilloscope.
We are exploring how the oscilloscope reacts in different test circumstances ie switching polarity.
If a forum user asks if there is something like avg, people are helping out and present results.
So why this kind of tone in your post?
Bravo!
Precision measuring DC voltage with oscilloscope is a new achivement in a world of measurements!
Maniacs, try this with serious scopes and observe the same results.
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Not that I am aware of.
There is a logic analyser called LA-104 in miniscope format (with a bandwidth of 100MHz,4 channels) for around $80, that can be used without a PC.
But I think you are better of with a USB device such as Kingston LA1010. There you have 16 channels, a 100MSa/s sampling rate and bandwidth just below 60MHz.
Another question:
I was looking again at similarly priced scopes and was wondering if there's anything around the hundred bucks mark that includes any protocol decoding?
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Another kind of device is a handheld like the Aneng AOS02 with only one scope channel but a built in DVM, with about half the price of the DPOX180H. Don't know which one is more useful. The Aneng includes a temperature probe and a current shunt. It also measures resistance, capacitance and frequency. Don't know how serious is their 10 MHz scope bandwidth spec.
Regards, Dieter
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The ANENG AOSO2 is a rebranded Zoyi ZT-702S (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-zoyi-multimeteroscilloscopes-zt-70xs-up-to-50mhz250msps-(nov-2022)/msg4549658/#msg4549658).
Both are one channel.
I have the 702S. I like the multimeter part. The scope function has an essential missing measurement: dutycycle, is about 10MHz.
It is not a logic analyzer and has no decoding functionality.
It seems that a 2-channel,50MHz Zoyi ZT-703S is coming up. That would be better comparable to the FNIRSI/Zeeweii, but it also has no protocol decoding.
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I asked about the signal generator offset bug by email. They replied a new firmware will fix the issue.
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Another kind of device is a handheld like the Aneng AOS02 with only one scope channel but a built in DVM, with about half the price of the DPOX180H.
Don't know which one is more useful.
The AOS02/ZT-702S is better as a multimeter and the DPOX180H is by far better as an oscilloscope, as the latter is not a scopemeter and thus has no multimeter function, but does have a signal generator.
Actually, it makes no sense to compare the two.
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I was looking again at similarly priced scopes and was wondering if there's anything around the hundred bucks mark that includes any protocol decoding?
If you want to start with the topic and 24MHz / 8 channels are enough for the moment, maybe one that costs as much as a pack of cigarettes does the job:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001417581550.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001417581550.html)
With the "PulseView" software, this is already quite useful in the Arduino area, for example.
S.a. https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-usb-logic-analyzer-with-sigrok-pulseview/all (https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-the-usb-logic-analyzer-with-sigrok-pulseview/all)
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I have had a bad experience with these chinese devices: connections got loose. Then I came to my senses and ordered a bit more expensive Kingston and working with that happily after (still looking for a cheap that can also do hardware triggering instead of software triggering)
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I have had a bad experience with these chinese devices: connections got loose.
Well, for the price you don't have to think twice.
I don't know what "Rooster Cogburn" needs exactly.
To get an idea of what the topic is about, these are quite OK.
If you know exactly what you want, you buy a better one.
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I have had a bad experience with these chinese devices: connections got loose.
Well, for the price you don't have to think twice.
I don't know what "Rooster Cogburn" needs exactly.
To get an idea of what the topic is about, these are quite OK.
If you know exactly what you want, you buy a better one.
from my not huge experience - better get two or three devices lower grade than one but hi-end.
you would always afraid to probe high voltage parts or unknown circuit with thousands dollar masterpiece :)
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I had the same thoughts initially.
Sure, I'm not spending an amount above $100. But I must say that working with the LA1010 and 16 channels is much easier than the Chinese device.
But indeed, for a tryout or use once a month the chinese device is an option.
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can somebody try to adjust system setings->transparent menus?
I see that it is working only during adjusting (percents running to zero and grid disappearing) but actually no effect to menu after quit.
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If you adjust this setting to a specific value and quit, the next time you open a menu, it remembers the setting.
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If you adjust this setting to a specific value and quit, the next time you open a menu, it remembers the setting.
can you try to set transparent menu to 0%, will you still see grid on the screen?
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Hello,
I have spent 2 days looking for correct bandwidth tests* of DPOX180H and still didn't found test with terminator, anyone? is it worth anything?
I'm looking for my first oscilloscope up to ~200$
Fnirsi DPOX180H vs Owon HDS2102 vs Hantek dso2c10 (then upgrade to 150Mhz)
which should be best?
I need something universal,
I might try to check car ignition coils or other car stuff
then mainly I will use it with repairing low voltage electronics
I love small form factor, but Im afraid of 2,8'' or 3.5'' LCD
I think that measuring up to 50Mhz in a "good way" would be great
the DPOX180H GUI seems amazing compared to others?
*btw, why there are so many tests to max oscilloscope bandwidth? I mean if its 100Mhz people test it at 100Mhz, they don't know about Shannon sampling theorem? or something changed with DSO?
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Hello,
I have spent 2 days looking for correct bandwidth tests* of DPOX180H and still didn't found test with terminator, anyone?
I agree. I have also asked but have received no real response. I guess the people with this scope either do not know how to test for bandwidth, don't care or don't have the right equipment.
*btw, why there are so many tests to max oscilloscope bandwidth? I mean if its 100Mhz people test it at 100Mhz, they don't know about Shannon sampling theorem? or something changed with DSO?
From my perspective, you assume the vendor is telling only one lie. In this case, since the claimed sample rate is marginally fine for the claimed BW I would test for BW first. Then if it fell significantly short of BW claims I'd then check the sample rate to see if they are also lying about that. From what we have seen from FNIRSI in the past I am inclined to assume the BW is 60MHz or less. In which case, that's all you get and a 500Ms/s sample rate is .. meh. :-//
-
Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 62 70 80 100 120 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 286 284 284 282 273 250 262 277 264 248 228
terminator 50ohm (correction - terminator was not connected properly so load was 1Mohm)
62Mhz - first minimum
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Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 62 70 80 100 120 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 286 284 284 282 273 250 262 277 264 248 228
terminator 50ohm
62Mhz - first minimum
Finally, thanks :)
Im trying to understand,
-13dBm = 142mV peak-to-peak
dpox180h Vpp readings are far away from this value?
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Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 62 70 80 100 120 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 286 284 284 282 273 250 262 277 264 248 228
terminator 50ohm
62Mhz - first minimum
Finally, thanks :)
Im trying to understand,
-13dBm = 142mV peak-to-peak
dpox180h Vpp readings are far away from this value?
Sorry, I recheck terminator it was bad connection (in fact all measurements were done with 1Mohm)
Retest with properly contacted.
Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 50 60 70 80 100 110 120 130 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 142 142 142 144 148 150 154 158 165 168 177 182 186 196
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So it's approaching +3dB instead of -3dB at @150MHz?
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So it's approaching +3dB instead of -3dB at @150MHz?
not so obvious, when input 1Mohm voltage-frequency response is not linear.
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Testing with sinusoidal signal is sence less,
because above 30MHz scope FW converts any signal to sinusoidal.
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Testing with sinusoidal signal is sence less,
because above 30MHz scope FW converts any signal to sinusoidal.
What are you talking about?
Sine wave sweep is one of the preferred ways to determine BW. The other is to measure fastest rise time.
If your scope is turning everything to a sine wave @ 30MHz, then it's BW is much less than 30MHz
Below is a square wave at 140MHz. Other than a little ringing it's not looking much like a sine wave.
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Sorry, I recheck terminator it was bad connection (in fact all measurements were done with 1Mohm)
Retest with properly contacted.
Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 50 60 70 80 100 110 120 130 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 142 142 142 144 148 150 154 158 165 168 177 182 186 196
It really seems strange that the amplitude would increase with frequency. Something is not quite right.
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[size=78%]Quote from: BillyO on Today at 08:45:52 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=377636.msg4994506#msg4994506)[/size]
Below is a square wave at 140MHz. Other than a little ringing it's not looking much like a sine wave.
Bravo! Now try this on DPOX180
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Bravo! Now try this on DPOX180
You were not specific about which scope you meant. It sounded like a general statement.
In any case a sine wave sweep or rise time analysis should work just fine on the DPOX180 to determine it's bandwidth.
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Is this topic about the general?
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Is this topic about the general?
Go find someone else to fight with. :box:
There have been many other scopes mentioned in this thread as well as heaps of general statements.
I realize English is not your first language, but that means you must try a bit harder to make sure your intent is properly understood.
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Sorry, I recheck terminator it was bad connection (in fact all measurements were done with 1Mohm)
Retest with properly contacted.
Freq(Mhz) 1 3 10 20 40 50 60 70 80 100 110 120 130 150
Ch(Vpp,mV) 142 142 142 144 148 150 154 158 165 168 177 182 186 196
It really seems strange that the amplitude would increase with frequency. Something is not quite right.
let's wait someone else repeat BW test with his DPOX180H.
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Bravo! Now try this on DPOX180
You were not specific about which scope you meant. It sounded like a general statement.
In any case a sine wave sweep or rise time analysis should work just fine on the DPOX180 to determine it's bandwidth.
perhaps he meant to say that some cheat/cheap oscilloscopes artificially "reconstruct" sine wave based on prediction (or without it) on higher side of BW.
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let's wait someone else repeat BW test with his DPOX180H.
I can do that, my DPOX180H came in the mail last week. I figured it would be a cheapish toy but if I could learn it's limits by comparing it to my 300mhz rigol it could be useful for portable use.
I'll set it up the sig gen and be back in a bit with a couple numbers for comparison.
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My results
The signal generator used was an ancient "turn the dial" type going to a coax output fed directly into the scope.
The amplitude dial being adjusted until the rigol read the number I wanted to check on. Coax then fed to DPOX180H, and when done back to rigol to double check what it says. All measurements peak to peak.
| Freq (mhz) | 3.5 | 30 | 60 | 90 | 130 |
| Rigol | 1.00v | 1.00v | 100mv | 1.00v | 100mv |
| DPOX180H | 1.00v | 0.984v | 109mv | 1.15v | 135mv |
The upwards at higher frequencies trend matches ru_tash.. which is.. weird. Definitely not just them though.
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Yeah, very strange.
Thanks for looking into it guys. :-+
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If a square wave is used to check the bandwidth then upward swing is to be expected since the effective sampling rate of the front end drops off with increase of input frequency.
Now consider the fourier coefficients of a square wave and the amplitude of fundamental versus RMS/PEAK .
As signal frequency goes up, sampling rate drops down with respect to the fundamental.
This results in a loss of higher order harmonics and so fundamental becomes more prominent.
I seem to recall 1,4 is the multiplier of fundamental. And then again it is possible the front end of the input stage may be slightlyover compensated resulting in a complex pole pair and gain peakines.
While messers Nyquist and Shannon assert minimum sampling rate of two and the toy scopes offer a sampling rate of fivish... a real man;s scope should offer a sample rate of typically tenish for good waveform reproductive fidelity...
Try doing bandwidth measurements with a single channel active and then repeat with both channels active ( to see effect of reduced sampling rate)
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https://youtube.com/shorts/dXxeHHcKgRU?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/dXxeHHcKgRU?feature=share)
Better once to see.
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I have found a new video showing a new bug/crash of this device when using the usb function. Try on your units to see if it happens.
https://youtu.be/NLNTrn9KVrk
I just got my DPOX180H and it seems to have the exact issue from the video :-[ The scope seems to work and I can connect it over USB on my Mac and the files/directory structure is there but as soon as I either try to upload a firmware file or download any screenshots or waveforms the unit freezes and no copy takes place. I tried on my Linux laptop and the volume never even mounts. I tried resetting all settings and formatting the storage no change. When I back out of the USB screen I get the same effect as in the video where all the text is missing.
Any ideas?
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https://youtube.com/shorts/dXxeHHcKgRU?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/dXxeHHcKgRU?feature=share)
Better once to see.
That doesn't look too bad.
In single-channel mode, however, it only becomes a sine wave at 60MHz, doesn't it?
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Do not mix it with ZEEWELL
It does not
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Do not mix it with ZEEWELL
It does not
That's hard for me to believe.
With the Zeeweii DSO2512G you can calculate it pretty accurately.
Single channel, not overclocked: 96MHz bandwidth.
So you can still see the "3rd harmonic" at 96/3 = 32MHz (Before it looks like a sine).
Overclocked 120/3 = 40Mhz and half of it in dual channel mode (16 and 20MHz respectively).
Is that really different with the DPOX180H?
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Zeeweii in single channel mode works in alternate ADSs mode
when both ADC channels digitizes 1 input. So, the sample rate twiced.
DPOX does not has this mode.
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Zeeweii in single channel mode works in alternate ADSs mode
when both ADC channels digitizes 1 input. So, the sample rate twiced.
DPOX does not has this mode.
So this is a fake? See 50Mhz screenshot.
Can somebody confirm this?
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S959cdf6a605c4f84ae2977223a1a5356R.jpg)
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I did investigate the USB issue a bit further. I tried a different cable and different ways of accessing the storage. Same results. On Mac it always freezes on transfer and on Linux I can't even mount anything, I just see the device on lsusb.
I asked a friend with a Windows machine and there it worked immediately. We were able to update the device with the v30 firmware posted here. Still, USB doesn't work for me with that firmware either but at least I now have the bugfixes.
Never seen a USB mass storage device before that's picky about the OS/computer, seems like the USB implementation is completely broken. Would be great if they could fix that :-\
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I've been playing around with the scope all evening, sorry in advance for all the dumb questions:
- On timebases over 50ms the measurements disappear and the scope switches to rolling mode, is there any way to keep measurements for longer timebases?
- Can you reliably/instantly set one of the vertical cursors to 0? Just because of the peculiar way cursors work on this scope setting one to zero is the only way to see an absolute position for cursor two
- Does somebody find the FFT function useful? Maybe it's just me but is this basically just a gimmick?
- Is there any way to do channel arithmetic like to simulate a differential probe?
- Does anybody else have the USB mode issue I and the fella from the YouTube video have? Did anybody here try the USB connection with Linux/Mac?
Thanks :D
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I've been playing around with the scope all evening, sorry in advance for all the dumb questions:
- On timebases over 50ms the measurements disappear and the scope switches to rolling mode, is there any way to keep measurements for longer timebases?
- Can you reliably/instantly set one of the vertical cursors to 0? Just because of the peculiar way cursors work on this scope setting one to zero is the only way to see an absolute position for cursor two
Not that I know.
- Does somebody find the FFT function useful? Maybe it's just me but is this basically just a gimmick?
you can get some info (eg is there a harmonic) but basically it is a gimmick.
- Is there any way to do channel arithmetic like to simulate a differential probe?
No
- Does anybody else have the USB mode issue I and the fella from the YouTube video have? Did anybody here try the USB connection with Linux/Mac?
No problems under windows, no problems under WSL Ubuntu, no problems on a Zorin OS.
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Thanks!
So I tried the USB mode on two Macs and two different Linux systems (Mate & Ubuntu) and neither worked. A friend's Windows laptop worked perfectly. FNIRSI Support says apparently only Win10 is supported. I don't think I've ever seen an USB storage device that only works on one OS let alone fails in such a spectacular fashion when connected to another OS. I guess this was only tested on like one computer with one specific USB stack or one specific USB host controller chip. I wouldn't have much confidence this even keeps working on any new Windows version/updates.
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Do you keep the scope plugged into USB power at all times when it's sitting on your bench? I noticed once it's charged the power button keeps alternating between red/green every couple of minutes. I'd want to preserve battery health as much as possible and wonder if it's best to only plug in the scope when using it or when it's empty or to just keep it on a USB charger at all times.
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No when I am using the scope for measuring there is no USB connection. Only for charging and transferring files the usb-cable is in.
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Zeeweii in single channel mode works in alternate ADSs mode
when both ADC channels digitizes 1 input. So, the sample rate twiced.
DPOX does not has this mode.
So this is a fake? See 50Mhz screenshot.
Can somebody confirm this?
@RaPo: Could you please confirm this?
You own a DPOX and you thanked Evi for his posting.
I still can't believe this as Fnirsi explicitly states differently.
Can you test with a 60MHz square wave with the second channel switched off?
For example, a NanoVNA can generate 60MHz square.
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Thomas the unbeliever
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Thomas the unbeliever
I do believe, I just don't know who! :-DD
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Thomas the unbeliever
No, really. Fnirsi shows this screenshot and you say this is not possible with the DPOX180H @50MHz.
What should I believe?
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You should believe and give them money
But better give me :)
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I used my RF explorer signal generator to generate 50MHz/60MHz signals.
Had 3 oscilloscopes, Zeeweii, Dpox and a Rigol.
See the attached image for the traces
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I used my RF explorer signal generator to generate 50MHz/60MHz signals.
Had 3 oscilloscopes, Zeeweii, Dpox and a Rigol.
See the attached image for the traces
Thank you!
So the Fnirsi works up to 60MHz (square wave) as I thought it would.
That the Zeeweii only goes up to 40MHz (square wave) was clear.
That the Rigol with 2 GSa/s shows more details is also no surprise.
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no big deal, you can give to your local charity in order to pay me ;-)
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@RAPo
you did not show 2 rays Fnirsi pictures @50 and 60MHz
unsufficient to conclude abouwt interleave mode
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Should I sent the same signal to both channels?
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Sure
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Hi
Would DPOX180H be able to read CAN low and high on the car? And PC BIOS?
I'm looking for kind of universal oscilloscope for me to learn/explore...
I don't know what kind of signals should I expect from line but DPOX180H graph lines looks way different compare to Owon hds2102s...
Many of screenshots from dpox180h looks almost same perhabs hds2102 graph are unexpectly different like in real.
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@RAPo
you did not show 2 rays Fnirsi pictures @50 and 60MHz
unsufficient to conclude abouwt interleave mode
What exactly do you expect to see there?
You have already shown in your video that the square wave ends at 25/30 MHz in 2-channel mode.
https://youtube.com/shorts/dXxeHHcKgRU?feature=share
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The idea to use a handheld while checking a car appears logical, but there are much better tools to look at CAN data - normally a laptop plus some USB to CAN adapter plus some software. I think the FNIRSI won't even decode the data.
For checking the boot sequence of a PC one doesn't need a handheld. And once more there are better tools, like the logic analyzer mentioned above.
I would always prefer a pre-owned professional scope.
Regards, Dieter
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Hi
Would DPOX180H be able to read CAN low and high on the car? And PC BIOS?
I'm looking for kind of universal oscilloscope for me to learn/explore...
I don't know what kind of signals should I expect from line but DPOX180H graph lines looks way different compare to Owon hds2102s...
Many of screenshots from dpox180h looks almost same perhabs hds2102 graph are unexpectly different like in real.
I don't dabble with CAN. Could you explain in laymen's terms when a scope is a good scope for CAN?
PC Bios: you can see the signal but there is no functionality for digital signals like a MSO/MDO scope.
Yes they look different than the Owon, maybe the phosphor maybe some other things
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oke, it is coming up today
Sure
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Agreed. Take a micsig SATO1004 for instance.
The idea to use a handheld while checking a car appears logical, but there are much better tools to look at CAN data - normally a laptop plus some USB to CAN adapter plus some software. I think the FNIRSI won't even decode the data.
For checking the boot sequence of a PC one doesn't need a handheld. And once more there are better tools, like the logic analyzer mentioned above.
I would always prefer a pre-owned professional scope.
Regards, Dieter
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Take a look
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Take a look
Did you feed it with a square wave or with the waveform in Image #1?
I still don't understand what this is for.
The DPOX shows square waves up to max. 60MHz and in 2-channel mode up to max. 30MHz, as I suspected.
Why should you test beyond that if you know it?
There are also youtubers who do this: "OK, at 100MHz it shows total garbage, let's see what it shows at 150MHz...".
If you know that a Citroën 2CV does not go 120km/h, why should you test if it goes 180km/h?
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Just replying to the wish of Evi,
Same signal as in the earlier image send to both channels as requested.
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Just replying to the wish of Evi,
Same signal as in the earlier image send to both channels as requested.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand.
What is the difference between these two images?
Shouldn't they show the same if both are square waves?
How do you turn off the second channel?
Or does it do that by itself when nothing is connected?
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Sorry, my video was done with JDS6600.
Its square become sine @30MHz
DPO does show 50MHz square 1 channell correctly
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ADF4351 as source. Probe 1/10
https://youtube.com/shorts/KcHt9zd-tHY?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/KcHt9zd-tHY?feature=share)
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I really like dpox180h because of quick access to most important buttons, size/shape, screen quality etc.
But look like Owon hds272s is a bit more accurate and universal.
I would like handheld because I can quickly take with me and use it (learn/explore)
I don't know what is benefit of loosing this vertical lines in dpox ??
I do repairs for my self thats why looking for something universal to help me learn and look at the grap.
if there is something and if looks read looks ok but dpox somethimes confusing without vertical lines.
DPOX was on deal £101 on banggood so thought very good idea for this money..
I'm sure proper oscilloscope would be much much better and would sit all the time in one place rarely usable in my case
Can anyone give idea of other tool to consider than owon or dpox? or should choose owon?
Owon does not have FFT which seems to be good I think?
attached few pictures to compare dpox and owon on CAN bus.
I would rather check CAN to see if there is short or any unusual activity rather than decode as even don't know
how to decode :(
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But look like Owon hds272s is a bit more accurate and universal.
Owon HDS272S is a scopemeter (multimeter + oscilloscope) with worse (oscilloscope-)specifications than the Fnirsi.
HDS272S:
Bandwith: 70MHz
Sampling rate: 250 MSa/s (single channel) / 125 MSa/s (dual channel)
It depends on what you need and want.
Both can probably keep up with a CAN bus, but I have no idea about that.
A Zeeweii (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html) would probably do as well. It is available even cheaper.
I don't know what is benefit of loosing this vertical lines in dpox ??
This was changed by a firmware update.
It's all in this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4948216/#msg4948216).
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But look like Owon hds272s is a bit more accurate and universal.
Owon HDS272S is a scopemeter (multimeter + oscilloscope) with worse (oscilloscope-)specifications than the Fnirsi.
[/url].
What about HDS2102s that have enough 100MHz and 500MSa/s
I like on OWON replaceable batteries 18650 and 3.5" screen but cost is much higher (£249 amazon)
Pain is that for this money can get second hand proper oscilloscope but not pocket size.
I saw vertical lines on DPOX but they are still not much visible...
A Zeeweii (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html) would probably do as well. It is available even cheaper.
I found DSO2512g looks also good and wondering if would be better to find bargain and get it instead of spending £110 on DPOX or £249 on OWON. Would it manage to read BIOS and CAN as OWON HDS272s do?
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I found DSO2512g looks also good and wondering if would be better to find bargain and get it instead of spending £110 on DPOX or £249 on OWON. Would it manage to read BIOS and CAN as OWON HDS272s do?
I would say the HDS272s and the DSO2512G are very similar in what you can and can't do with them.
Except, of course, that the Zeeweii doesn't have a multimeter function.
The Owon is perhaps a bit more elaborately made, but it also costs more.
There will also be a scopemeter from Zeeweii coming soon, but the price is not yet known.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/another-dsodmm-zeeweii-dso3d12-claimed-120mhz250msps/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/another-dsodmm-zeeweii-dso3d12-claimed-120mhz250msps/)
In this price range, it all depends on what you want to spend and what you consider necessary for your purpose.
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I have noticed this problem with the Fnirsi DPOX180H instrument,
when measuring a DC voltage outside the measurement range, Fnirsi shows the maximum measured voltage instead of indicating a measurement error.
A constant voltage of 19V is applied to the probe input and the Fnirsi shows 4V. A should show an error.
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That maybe a hardware limitation. The input clamp might be upstream from where the voltage is measured. If so it is not something that can be fixed in firmware. But I'm only guessing.
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Having used the scope for a while, I have to say I quite like it. It's a great deal at ~99EUR shipped. I have some minor UI complaints like the lack of absolute position readouts for the cursors and a slow Auto function. The only major bug I've encountered is the finicky USB mass storage mode that doesn't work with any of my machine/OS combos and is officially Win10 only. The performance of the actual hardware platform is absolutely good enough for my need. Ergonomically, rubber membranes that are a little softer would be nice and I always think it would be nice if handheld scopes would include at least one encoder for adjustment. My wishes for further firmware updates or a successor device would really be to just fill out the rather spartan feature set compared to a typical Rigol/Siglent bench scope. Channel arithmetic, protocol decoders, more trigger options like video triggers, more measurements, etc. Mostly pure software stuff that could be added without changes to the underlying hardware platform.
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I also miss the accuracy of the DC voltage measurement, for example, instead of 3.0 volts the device shows 2.92 at 1 volt per cell.
Shows information about the second channel on the display when it is off, and vice versa.
Otherwise a very successful device for its money.
Fast interface, works fast, synchronizes the signal perfectly.
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And since we're already complaining, this scope has a yellow and cyan color coded channel 1&2 but my probe kit didn't come with any yellow probe rings >:(
I hope we can get another software update or two out of FNIRSI!
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I pointed this out on one of the forums, but I was misunderstood there ))))
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I just did buy one. Just for trying out.
There will also be a scopemeter from Zeeweii coming soon, but the price is not yet known.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/another-dsodmm-zeeweii-dso3d12-claimed-120mhz250msps/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/another-dsodmm-zeeweii-dso3d12-claimed-120mhz250msps/)
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I have a pair of DPOX180H. A big disappointment. Problems: cursor measurements, phantom line when viewing the meander fronts at a frequency of several kilohertz, in some cases hovering. You can still put up with this, because you can fix it with a new firmware if the developer releases it. And here's another problem: the compensation of the capacity of the probes is configured only in one of the operating modes. Compensation is performed when the input is open, when switching to a closed input, a distortion of the meander occurs. And vice versa. Tested on both devices. There is no such thing on ZEEWEII DSO2512G and other available oscilloscopes. It seems that this is a hardware problem, which consists in changing the input capacity of the device itself when changing the open/closed input. Sadly.
I will supplement it. I changed the probes to PP-150. The situation has not changed. Such a problem is at frequencies of one kilohertz and closer.
It turns out that every time you change an open input to a closed one and vice versa, it is necessary to compensate the probes. Does anyone else have this problem?
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Does anyone else have this problem?
Confirm this.
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Does anyone else have this problem?
Confirm this.
dpox180h it's just a toy it fails on basic useful things. fnirsi rush on camouflage the squarewave thing to quiet the bad reviews that were messing with sales. They don't care about solving more important things like cursors. no feedback and no reply to emails. really bad.
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This is too harsh.
Fnirsi does reply to questions asked, gives feedback (even within a few workdays), and does make an update.
If you look at the .wav files you can see the square waves, no camouflage there.
The cursors implementation is indeed strange.
dpox180h it's just a toy it fails on basic useful things. fnirsi rush on camouflage the squarewave thing to quiet the bad reviews that were messing with sales. They don't care about solving more important things like cursors. no feedback and no reply to emails. really bad.
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no feedback and no reply to emails. really bad.
They always reply to me on Whatsapp
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They were very friendly and responsive when I talked to them on Ali regarding the USB mass storage issue and the weird cursors. Don't know if we'll get improvements, but at least they listened and confirmed what I was seeing was working-as-designed for now.
At the risk of sounding like even more of a newb, could somebody explain this issue to me? After 5min of Googling I have still no idea what a 'meander front' is or what it means for an oscilloscope channel to be open or closed. I assume this is about the under/overshoot/ringing on fast edges, probe compensation and needing to readjust when a channel is turned on/off?
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Meander front is the trace you see on the oscilloscope when you apply a square wave signal.
That can be under/overshoot but I think in this context is the rise/fall down without a clear line on the DPOX screen.
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Meander front is the trace you see on the oscilloscope when you apply a square wave signal.
Is the term commonly used in English?
I have no idea, but to me it seems more like a translation error from Ukrainian or Russian.
If you google for Меандр на осциллографе (https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80+%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5), pictures of square waves appear.
I would also be interested to know what is meant by "open or closed" here.
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People,
how old are you?
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People,
how old are you?
What do you mean?
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To meander is an English verb that means zigzagging.
But it is not a common electronics term.
I think open=DC coupling, closed=AC coupling of a channel.
Meander front is the trace you see on the oscilloscope when you apply a square wave signal.
Is the term commonly used in English?
I have no idea, but to me it seems more like a translation error from Ukrainian or Russian.
If you google for Меандр на осциллографе (https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80+%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%B5), pictures of square waves appear.
I would also be interested to know what is meant by "open or closed" here.
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To meander is an English verb that means zigzagging.
But it is not a common term.
Thanks, but I think I was right about the translation error.
"Meander" in Russian simply means "square wave".
The automatic translation apparently does not take the context into account.
"Meander (...) is a periodic signal of rectangular shape, widely used in radio engineering and electronics." (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80_(%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0))
I think open=DC coupling, closed=AC coupling of a channel.
Thank you! That sounds plausible.
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Ok, makes sense now 8)
And I can confirm that my meander fronts need to be readjusted when I open and close the channel. Sucks, guess that's a hardware issue.
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I recall meander is a specific case of a square wave with 50% duty cycle. But i may be wrong, it's being long time since I left the university bench.
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A new video showing that it goes to 180MHz (assuming there's no software cheats):
https://youtu.be/40kdorhPcqo
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FNIRSI DPOX180H 1MHz-180MHz Frequency sweep: https://youtu.be/Hmsn_Jd4N5M (https://youtu.be/Hmsn_Jd4N5M)
FNIRSI DPOX180H 1MHz-250MHz Frequency sweep: https://youtu.be/fTk_qah00Ak (https://youtu.be/fTk_qah00Ak)
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And here's another problem: the compensation of the capacity of the probes is configured only in one of the operating modes. Compensation is performed when the input is open, when switching to a closed input, a distortion of the meander occurs.
This problem exists for me as well.
And it is unlikely that it can be fixed programmatically.
Rigol 1054z does not have this problem.
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Hi,
I also can confirm the issue with the different compensation when switching between AC and DC. First I did not understand what Anatol_i was talking about (lost in transition), but he is right. Seems to be a design flaw in the frontend, the input capacity is different some pF in AC and DC mode. Should not be like that, this can´t get fixed with firmware. Beside of this, I still like my DPOX, for a 100 € device it is good for what it is.
Update:
I was wrong, the input capacity only changes less than a half pF. It is more the coupling capacitor, which seems to have a too low value. At higher frequencies (e.g 10kHz) the problem vanishes.
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I recall meander is a specific case of a square wave with 50% duty cycle. But i may be wrong, it's being long time since I left the university bench.
If it doesn't have a 50% duty cycle, it is a rectangular wave, not a square wave.
No, I'm not splitting hairs, their frequency spectra are different.
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.....It is more the coupling capacitor, which seems to have a too low value. At higher frequencies (e.g 10kHz) the problem vanishes.
I repeated tests, seems you are right, for 1kHz AC decoupling capacitor has too low value (flat part of square wave is declining and cannot be compensated), at 10kHz square wave has right shape (no matter AC or DC input).
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Update:
I was wrong, the input capacity only changes less than a half pF. It is more the coupling capacitor, which seems to have a too low value. At higher frequencies (e.g 10kHz) the problem vanishes.
Interesting, this is probably why I didn't notice it at first. I compensated my probe and then tried out the scope by looking at analog video signals, high-frequency noise of a SMPS, tried my funcgen closer to its BW limit, etc.
I repeated tests, seems you are right, for 1kHz AC decoupling capacitor has too low value (flat part of square wave is declining and cannot be compensated)
Hm, I can get the probe adjusted just fine for either AC or DC, just not for both with one setting?
What would be the most sensible probe calibration procedure for this scope then? Calibrate for either AC or DC at 1Khz? Use 10Khz or higher?
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Calibrate for 10x times DC at 1kHz square wave.
Then remember if you switch coupling-mode or frequency goes below 1kHz: recalibrate.
What would be the most sensible probe calibration procedure for this scope then? Calibrate for either AC or DC at 1Khz? Use 10Khz or higher?
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Gotcha. I find that the error only goes to zero at ~20Khz. At 15Khz you can still see a difference between AC/DC, much less than at 1Khz, of course. 1Khz and below is really quite bad.
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Gotcha. I find that the error only goes to zero at ~20Khz. At 15Khz you can still see a difference between AC/DC, much less than at 1Khz, of course. 1Khz and below is really quite bad.
Personally, I do not consider this oscilloscope to be an accurate measuring device and do not overestimate the requirements for its readings. If the manufacturer can improve it - well, if not - well, let them be
The main thing is to understand where it fails to cope with constant measurements and where it shows the signal incorrectly.
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It always depends on what you want to use it for. I don't design nuclear reactors. I want to see that the sync pulses coming out of my console look Ok. That my PSU isn't too crappy. That the clock line on this PCB does clock line stuff. How a voltage rail stabilizes when I turn a device on. Stuff like that. If there's a ~5% measurement error or some signal edges look a bit funky, that's alright.
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In a good way, the manufacturer at least should have warned about such a problem. The device under discussion, according to its characteristics, has not gone far from the ZEEWEII DSO2512G, in which there is no such problem. I wonder if the Fnirsi representative happens to be here? I think it would be in their interest to at least indicate how this problem can be solved at the hardware level. Measurements of the input capacitance of the device with the input open/closed showed its slight change in unit pF. It is likely that the problem really lies in the incorrect capacitance of the transient capacitor. Only it needs to be found somehow on the device board.
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All that need to be done is:
- unmount input shields from the scope PCB
- find theese capacitors and replace with x10 values ones
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Well the pcb-image is here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/msg4869017/#msg4869017) ;D
Only it needs to be found somehow on the device board.
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Update:
I was wrong, the input capacity only changes less than a half pF. It is more the coupling capacitor, which seems to have a too low value. At higher frequencies (e.g 10kHz) the problem vanishes.
Interesting, this is probably why I didn't notice it at first. I compensated my probe and then tried out the scope by looking at analog video signals, high-frequency noise of a SMPS, tried my funcgen closer to its BW limit, etc.
I repeated tests, seems you are right, for 1kHz AC decoupling capacitor has too low value (flat part of square wave is declining and cannot be compensated)
Hm, I can get the probe adjusted just fine for either AC or DC, just not for both with one setting?
What would be the most sensible probe calibration procedure for this scope then? Calibrate for either AC or DC at 1Khz? Use 10Khz or higher?
If you have analog video signals, try looking at them at "field rate".
That was the "acid test" we did on early DSOs----they all failed! :)
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Is there a difference between the V-p and V-max measurement on this scope? They sound the same to me and seem to show the same value.
If you have analog video signals, try looking at them at "field rate".
That was the "acid test" we did on early DSOs----they all failed! :)
Could you explain what you mean by that? Set the horizontal so long that I see entire fields? This scope doesn't have video triggers, so I unfortunately don't think I can trigger on vsync.
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https://youtu.be/jKF-cIToWKc (https://youtu.be/jKF-cIToWKc)
Another illustration of the open/closed input problem when investigating mains voltage.
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https://youtu.be/jKF-cIToWKc (https://youtu.be/jKF-cIToWKc)
Another illustration of the open/closed input problem when investigating mains voltage.
Input filters for low frequencies are incorrectly designed.
I asked Fnirsi if manual calibration would be available, they said no
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Is there a difference between the V-p and V-max measurement on this scope? They sound the same to me and seem to show the same value.
If you have analog video signals, try looking at them at "field rate".
That was the "acid test" we did on early DSOs----they all failed! :)
Could you explain what you mean by that? Set the horizontal so long that I see entire fields? This scope doesn't have video triggers, so I unfortunately don't think I can trigger on vsync.
Yes, you don't need video triggers, you only need to fit 20ms or so on the screen for one field, so depending on the shape of your screen, you can set your rate at 2ms/div or a bit less.
At that rate, you can trigger on the vertical syncs.
We never used built-in video triggers as the old Tektronix HP, etc., Analog 'scopes which could easily trigger on vertical syncs.
The early DSOs had no problem with triggering, either.
Their failing was that they had such a small memory that the only way to not overflow it was for the sample rate to fall radically at such rates as 2ms/div.
If the sampling rate fell below around 10MSamples/sec, aliasing would set in.
Many reduced the sampling rate quite a bit more than that, so the video field signal was not recognisable.
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At 2ms/div I get at least 240 lines of actual video content on screen, not seeing much since this screen has about ~300 pixels horiz. dedicated to the waveform. But I can clearly see the vblank and the rest is pretty much smushed together. I can seen just about the vsync/hsync pulses but when I zoom in on the capture and try to look at stuff like the colorburst it's mostly a mess, guess the scope would need a higher sample rate to allow for that kind of resolution at such a time interval.
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At 2ms/div I get at least 240 lines of actual video content on screen, not seeing much since this screen has about ~300 pixels horiz. dedicated to the waveform. But I can clearly see the vblank and the rest is pretty much smushed together. I can seen just about the vsync/hsync pulses but when I zoom in on the capture and try to look at stuff like the colorburst it's mostly a mess, guess the scope would need a higher sample rate to allow for that kind of resolution at such a time interval.
That is not what you look for at field rate.
Even though the the signals are "Smushed together", you should be able to see the whole of the "Field group", including pre & post equalising pulses as well as the "serrations" on the vertical pulse itself.
The video part should not look like a unmown back yard, & you should be able to recognise it as video.
Using an analog 'scope with delayed/dual timebase, you would be able to "zoom in" & see the individual colour bursts, horizontal syncs, & so on.
I don't have a modern DSO in the same class as the relatively inexpensive Siglent & Rigol bench instruments (or, indeed, any DSO), but I am confident they can do the same.
If the DPOX180H cannot do this, it does point to a lack of memory, causing the sample rate to drop radically at long time/div settings, which is the same problem the early DSOs had.
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you can capture the video signal directly from the camera - like in this video
this test shows what your oscilloscope can do it should be carried out first of all to assess the capabilities of digital phosphor - color gradation and trigger response speed - display speed of oscillograms per second and much more
https://vimeo.com/229357597
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you can capture the video signal directly from the camera - like in this video
this test shows what your oscilloscope can do it should be carried out first of all to assess the capabilities of digital phosphor - color gradation and trigger response speed - display speed of oscillograms per second and much more
https://vimeo.com/229357597
Any halfway reasonable modern DSO can display analog lines, as all it needs is to save enough samples to correctly resolve around 5MHz over 64us or so, & the memory is usually large enough to handle this at an adequate sample rate. (Some early 1990s major brands & "El Cheapo" ones from the early 2000s & 2010s could not do this.)
Field rate is "another kettle of fish".
Neither of the displays in the video even do much of a job of triggering at horizontal rate.
Colour gradation adds little to the display of analog video waveforms.
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I find some holdoff and careful trigger level selection helps.
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Neither of the displays in the video even do much of a job of triggering at horizontal rate.
Colour gradation adds little to the display of analog video waveforms.
Does a great job, single frame picture visible, color signal visible, sync signal visible, picture visible. You just have to either memorize the signal or change the synchronization level.
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I've recently bought the DPOX180H portable oscilloscope. I'm rather happy with my purchase, but there is one issue that is pretty serious. It was already described by the others that after enabling AC coupling readings on the lower frequencies are highly inaccurate.
I've already tried to externally connect AC blocking capacitor to it with higher value (100nF) and it seems to solve the issue, but i would like to make this change more convenient and to resolder AC blocking capacitor inside of the scanner. Normally I would expect to see some kind of relay or solid state relay, but in this case I cannot find it.
Has anyone tried to change it, or found where AC blocking capacitor is located?
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Has anyone tried to change it, or found where AC blocking capacitor is located?
You should be able to trace back from the BNC connector. It is usually VERY close to the input. BTW, adding a capacitor in series with another capacitor will reduce the total capacitance, not increase it. If things improve it might be due to conductive contamination on the PCB or a faulty blocking capacitor.
EDIT: BTW, there is clearly a relay in each of the front ends. There may also be some CMOS bilateral switches.
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Has anyone tried to change it, or found where AC blocking capacitor is located?
You should be able to trace back from the BNC connector. It is usually VERY close to the input. BTW, adding a capacitor in series with another capacitor will reduce the total capacitance, not increase it. If things improve it might be due to conductive contamination on the PCB or a faulty blocking capacitor.
EDIT: BTW, there is clearly a relay in each of the front ends. There may also be some CMOS bilateral switches.
i think he used DC input with external capacitor added.
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BTW, adding a capacitor in series with another capacitor will reduce the total capacitance, not increase it.
Yes, that is right, but I've tried with DC coupling mode so the external capacitor should be the only one. So I guess that higher value still should help with that issue. Connecting external 22nF capacitor produced similar to the internal capacitor.
EDIT: BTW, there is clearly a relay in each of the front ends. There may also be some CMOS bilateral switches.
I wasn't specific enough. There is clearly one relay, but it is clicking when vertical scale is being changed. During DC -> AC coupling mode change there is no sound, so it needs to be changed by some kind of solid state circuitry.
I performed some measurements and i think that this is AC blocking capacitor:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/?action=dlattach;attach=1869094;image)
At the input (just at the output of the relay) of this capacitor signal is the same, no matter if it is AC or DC coupling mode:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/?action=dlattach;attach=1869070;image)
Output of this capacitor on DC mode:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/?action=dlattach;attach=1869076;image)
And output of this capacitor on AC mode:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/?action=dlattach;attach=1869082;image)
There is still some overshoot on DC mode but it is not visible on the FNIRSI scope, but at least it contains DC offset
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rise time 1.8 nanoseconds :bullshit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-EHjiijSA0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-EHjiijSA0)
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Подскажите какая микросхема отвечает за смещение для калибровки.Появилось остаточное напряжение на индикаторах.Что то вышло из строя.Штатная калибровка не помогает.Всё остальное работает.Или можно уже выкинуть осциллограф?Снимок без щупа.
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Подскажите какая микросхема отвечает за смещение для калибровки.Появилось остаточное напряжение на индикаторах.Что то вышло из строя.Штатная калибровка не помогает.Всё остальное работает.Или можно уже выкинуть осциллограф?Снимок без щупа.
This is an English language site. If you want more eyes on your question you can easily use a translator to pose it. See below...
Tell me which microcircuit is responsible for the offset for calibration. Residual voltage has appeared on the indicators. Something has gone wrong. Standard calibration does not help. Everything else works. Or can I throw out the oscilloscope? A picture without a probe.
BTW, the offset in that TINY image you posted looks minimal. Personally, on an ultra cheap scope like this I would not worry about it.
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В испытаниях использовались ПЧ DELTA VFD-E на 24 ампера и вентилятор 11KW 22 ампера.На снимках видно частота модулированного напряжения определяется только при сжатии сигнала,если растянуть сигнал частота определяется скорее с несущей частоты.На первых двух снимках используется автоматическая синхронизация(AUTO),на остальных обычная(NORMAL).
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пока не могу выложить снимки ограничение по объёму
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пока не могу выложить снимки ограничение по объёму
Пожалуйста, пишите сообщения на английском языке.
Это англоязычный форум.
Я тоже не очень хорошо знаю английский, но не все могут писать на своем родном языке.
---------------
Please post in English.
This is an English speaking forum.
I don't know English well either, but not everyone can post in their native language.
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Снимки.Если нужны снимки импульсов несущей частоты напишите опубликую.
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Это снимки с DSO2512 который тоже участвовал в этих испытаниях и синхронизирован только в авто(AUTO).Первые полярные снимки измерены относительно - и + постоянного напряжения VFD-E
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Продолжение
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Похоже dso2512 на низких частотах работает лучше DPOX180H.
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схема от dso2512 может поможет разобраться с ёмкостью входа. удачи.
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Hello everyone, just signed up after lurking for a few years. I have been wanting to purchase an oscilloscope for years but I can’t justify spending more than a hundred bucks for what’s pretty much an hobby.
I like repairing old computers (and maybe CRTs?) and I don’t think I will ever have to go higher than 100MHz.
If so is this oscilloscope a good suggestion for retro repairs or is there something better suited?
Thanks for your help!
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Zeeweii has two similar models with somewhat lower specs, the DSO2512G and DSO3D12. Both are cheaper.
Edit: Both has threads on this forum.
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Zeeweii has two similar models with somewhat lower specs, the DSO2512G and DSO3D12. Both are cheaper.
Edit: Both has threads on this forum.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Not sure if it’s my country or anything but from here both cost the same as a DPOX180H from Banggood.
From what I can understand the DPOX180H looks like the better choice?
If so I don’t mind waiting a few weeks for a superior product, unless there are better alternatives for ~120EUR? (I have already tried searching the forum but didn’t find much)
Thanks!
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Not sure if it’s my country or anything but from here both cost the same as a DPOX180H from Banggood.
ZEEWEII Official Store is here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html)
At the moment (next 20 hours):
Totale parziale
95,99€
Salvato
- 10,00€
Totale
85,99€
Prezzo IVA inclusa, Spedizione gratuita
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Be carefull with high voltage CRT's. If you really want to that be sure the whole setup (DUT,scope and probes) is safe.
If you want to see AV-signals (coming from a computer to a display) I advise you to buy a scope with a so called video trigger.
Neither the DPOX or the Zeewei have that trigger type.
Two channel at least 50MHz is the starting point I think.
Hello everyone, just signed up after lurking for a few years. I have been wanting to purchase an oscilloscope for years but I can’t justify spending more than a hundred bucks for what’s pretty much an hobby.
I like repairing old computers (and maybe CRTs?) and I don’t think I will ever have to go higher than 100MHz.
If so is this oscilloscope a good suggestion for retro repairs or is there something better suited?
Thanks for your help!
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It says 91.30EUR here. Not sure what it is going on with AliExpress’ pricing algorithm.
Anyway while 90EUR is better than 120EUR, my budget can reach 120EUR. If the FNIRSI is a better unit when it comes to build quality, support and features I will gladly spend 40EURs more.
100MHz might be necessary for some Pentium 1 boards, though? Most of the time I will work with sub-50Mhz boards.
Sorry if I am asking a lot of questions but I have put off getting an oscilloscope for 4-5 years because I keep thinking that I shouldn’t be posting such inane questions on a forum like Eevblog, but I am sure that no one better than you guys can advise me with the right purchase :)
ZEEWEII Official Store is here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003085753955.html)
At the moment (next 20 hours):
Totale parziale
95,99€
Salvato
- 10,00€
Totale
85,99€
Prezzo IVA inclusa, Spedizione gratuita
Ehh, too much trouble for something I wouldn’t touch that much (not a big fan of high voltage). I don’t want to spend more than this and at this point I guess that video triggers don’t come on cheap oscilloscopes.
Be carefull with high voltage CRT's. If you really want to that be sure the whole setup (DUT,scope and probes) is safe.
If you want to see AV-signals (coming from a computer to a display) I advise you to buy a scope with a so called video trigger.
Neither the DPOX or the Zeewei have that trigger type.
Two channel at least 50MHz is the starting point I think.
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This a very helpful forum. Ask questions like you want. The people that will respond are questions also (like the million dollar question:why and wherefore is the scope needed?) This process is maybe a bit confronting but it really helps for you descion.
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It says 91.30EUR here. Not sure what it is going on with AliExpress’ pricing algorithm.
Strange. Is that with or without "2€ di sconto ogni 15€ (max 10€)"?
You will see the final price when you add it to the cart.
If the FNIRSI is a better unit when it comes to build quality, support and features I will gladly spend 40EURs more.
It's probably not that simple.
Both have advantages and disadvantages.
The DSO2512 has a video output so you can view the signal on a larger screen and also view/save it on your computer via an adapter (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004282107316.html).
The Fnirsi DPOX has better specs, but on the Zeeweii DSO2512 the software is quite mature and the device actually hardly causes any annoyance.
I don't have a Fnirsi DPOX. There are people here who have both devices.
Maybe they can give you some more advice.
In any case, the DSO2512 is cheaper than the DPOX.
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Hello everyone, just signed up after lurking for a few years. I have been wanting to purchase an oscilloscope for years but I can’t justify spending more than a hundred bucks for what’s pretty much an hobby.
I like repairing old computers (and maybe CRTs?) and I don’t think I will ever have to go higher than 100MHz.
If so is this oscilloscope a good suggestion for retro repairs or is there something better suited?
Thanks for your help!
I mostly modify / repair old electronics, including my CRT collection. That's why I bought this scope. I'm quite happy with it, but I think the software features are a bit sparse. The trigger and measurement / cursor features are rather basic. I would've considered buying a more expensive bench scope, but space is at a premium so something DMM sized is a real win. I'm quite happy with my purchase, doesn't seem like you can do much better at this size and price point.
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I performed some measurements and i think that this is AC blocking capacitor:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023)/?action=dlattach;attach=1869094;image)
At the input (just at the output of the relay) of this capacitor signal is the same, no matter if it
This is really good info. I noticed the calibration discrepancy but I thought I was using the wrong probes (or worst; that I never calibrated them despite remembering that I did), as I used the scope on DC one day (and calibrated it), and AC at least a day later (and it looked all messed up). First, I'm glad to know it's a known problem and it's between AC and DC (which I have verified), and second, because if it's just a matter of changing that capacitor I might be able to repair it myself. I'm assuming there should be one for CH1 and one for CH2?
Also, What would be a good capacitor value to put there, though?
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Dear friend!
The problem with underestimation of signal level measurements and distortion of the square wave shape at frequencies up to 1 kHz in AC mode has been resolved.
It lies in the incorrect installation of the coupling capacitor. It is set to 740 pF, but should be 0.1 mF.
After replacing the capacitors, any signal shapes and amplitudes are not distorted.
You will need to replace the circled capacitors with ceramic capacitors of the same size 0.1 microfarad 100 volts.
Testing was carried out in the frequency range from several hertz to 20 megahertz.
Distortions in the level and shape of the signals have disappeared.
The result is in photos 4 and 5.
Photo 4 shows a square wave at a frequency of 50 hertz in AC mode with a phase shift of 180 degrees.
Photo 5 measures the shape and amplitude of the voltage in the socket in RMS mode and compares it with a multimeter.
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Dear friend!
The problem with underestimation of signal level measurements and distortion of the square wave shape at frequencies up to 1 kHz in AC mode has been resolved.
It lies in the incorrect installation of the coupling capacitor. It is set to 740 pF, but should be 0.1 mF.
After replacing the capacitors, any signal shapes and amplitudes are not distorted.
You will need to replace the circled capacitors with ceramic capacitors of the same size 0.1 microfarad 100 volts.
Thanks for posting here. What's the footprint? Is that a 0805 cap?
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0805 or 1206
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Photo 5 measures the shape and amplitude of the voltage in the socket in RMS mode and compares it with a multimeter.
I don’t see your photo 5?
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It lies in the incorrect installation of the coupling capacitor. It is set to 740 pF, but should be 0.1 mF.
After replacing the capacitors, any signal shapes and amplitudes are not distorted.
You will need to replace the circled capacitors with ceramic capacitors of the same size 0.1 microfarad 100 volts.
So is it "0.1 mF" (100uF) or "0.1 microfarad" (100nF)?
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I don't know why photo 5 didn't load
I repeat the download.
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0.1uF = 100nf = 100 000 pF
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A representative of the FNIRSI company thanked me and offered me a $20 discount for the purchase of this oscilloscope in a new case.
Here is his answer:
Hi, dear friend, thank you very much for the information!
We will give feedback to the technical staff. If any customers have this problem, we will share it with them.🤝
The new appearance brings you a different experience.
The new appearance of DPOX180H is now online.
Order now to enjoy a 20$ discount.
CODE: NEW888
Link: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_oDnLCtL
If anyone is interested, please use it.
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A representative of the FNIRSI company thanked me and offered me a $20 discount for the purchase of this oscilloscope in a new case.
Here is his answer:
Hi, dear friend, thank you very much for the information!
We will give feedback to the technical staff. If any customers have this problem, we will share it with them.🤝
The new appearance brings you a different experience.
The new appearance of DPOX180H is now online.
Order now to enjoy a 20$ discount.
CODE: NEW888
Link: https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_oDnLCtL
If anyone is interested, please use it.
instead of solving the problems this model has, they insert the "old" one into a new dress and try to fool everybody into buying another one with the same bugs :palm:
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I was going to do a review of this scope in my blog but I will wait until I get the proper cap to repair the issue. The only 0.1uF 0805 caps I have right now are 50V.
The fact that they are already replacing the model with a "new" version, however, gives me zero confidence in the brand. I've literally had mine for like 2 weeks and there's already a new version? lol.
EDIT: I tried changing them anyway, despite the caps I had being only 50V (it's not like I intended to use this with high voltage anyway, and I gave up trying to find 100V parts) and the difference in calibration when switching between AC and DC is still there, although a tad smaller. The caps I removed, however, were like 350pF and not "740pF" as Serhii74 reported earlier.
Difference between AC and DC disappears at around 15 Khz ~, and it's unlikely that I'll be playing around with signals at 15KHz or less, that require 10x attenuation, AC coupled, but this still annoys me a bit.
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I was going to do a review of this scope in my blog but I will wait until I get the proper cap to repair the issue. The only 0.1uF 0805 caps I have right now are 50V.
it is interesting, how to recognize maximum voltage for smd capacitor?
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I was going to do a review of this scope in my blog but I will wait until I get the proper cap to repair the issue. The only 0.1uF 0805 caps I have right now are 50V.
it is interesting, how to recognize maximum voltage for smd capacitor?
Honestly? In my case that's the rating they had when I bought them. :-DD They all said 50V on the label.
Now, I did try connecting them to 50V and they didn't blow up (just to make sure that they weren't... uh... "accidentally mislabeled" ::) by the store I bought them from )
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MSNizJHrL0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MSNizJHrL0)
How To Test And Measure The Working Rated Voltage Of A Capacitor. Find Fake Capacitors
I think 100V 0805 MLCC caps are a bit rare, certainly nothing I'd just have lying around.
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Hi.
I finally took the plunge and ordered one. it arrived a few days ago.
I'm not a professional.
I haven't played it much yet, but I'm starting to regret it.
I have an HDS272S to compare it with.
I looked with an FY6800 fig generator.
The measured signal is Adj-Pulse with 10Mhz and 10ns pulse width.
I haven't had much time to test it with other settings.
What stood out to me.
There are times when the trigger fails.
With the same setting, the owon triggers exactly. (bigger horizontal division and narrow pulses were not triggered on the owon, but the fnirsi finds something)
With the 2us setting, there was a 0-2us delay on the trigger.
I haven't managed to prove 120Kpts yet. so far approx.: 5K has been collected as a maximum.
It drains faster than the owon. I had to charge it twice.
Not all parameters can be saved, for example, the trigger type is reset to AUTO.
The trigger level changes if you adjust the voltage resolution.
you can't see the trigger voltage, it doesn't show it.
He often writes nonsense, sometimes he also calculates the frequency.
I think the color temperature is also wrong, the trigger is set to single and the waveform is still multi-colored.
If you set the trigger HF rejection, the field of view decreases vertically. At value 3, you lose 2 squares.
I couldn't find any description or reference to what the levels are.
what frequency range do they cover?
Cursors also work interestingly.
I haven't figured out what exactly the vertical cursor measures.
And with the horizontal cursor in ZOOM mode, you can measure the original signal wave above, not the enlarged wave.
I haven't tried the signal generator part yet, nor the ability to copy the signal.
I managed to order the above-mentioned capacitors from a place here in my country, when they arrive and I replace them, I will write how they are for me, or if the replacement makes any sense.
I don't even trust the 400V protection written on it after this...
in my opinion, I would have done better if I still collected and bought an HDS2202 edition.
Fewer errors, better accuracy and reliable...
I have several Fnirsi products, I am satisfied with them, their oscilloscopes are worthless in my opinion.
Too expensive and faulty.
I also use the 1013D only to measure with it in unknown circuits first, so it's not a bad thing if it burns.
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I think the color temperature is also wrong, the trigger is set to single and the waveform is still multi-colored.
You have a great list of findings there, but this one I find it tragically hilarious. I've seen several reviewers pointing out how cool is that it has temperature-colored waveform, but none of them actually bothered testing if the coloring made any sense. I can verify in fact, that even in single capture you get a multi-colored waveform. If I give it the benefit of the doubt maybe it's always equivalent-time-sampling (i.e: Capturing two or more samples with some delay in between), even when in single capture, which could explain the multi-colors. Another alternative explanation is that the colors are actually BS. :palm:
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Fake it till you make it, the sale that is!
One date point towards the coloring being real is that I don't recall seeing color grading on truly singular events, like voltage rails coming up during power on.
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I was impatient and before the ordered capacitor arrived, I unsoldered the old ones because I was interested in what it was like.
It also gave me a value of around 330pF. and not 740
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any rev. number on the board.
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Well, after reading this and the DSO2512G’s thread entirely, I have decided to go with Zeeweii’s offering. It costs a bit less, but it seems to have better functions and less issues than the DPOX180H. I hope I won’t regret it :) Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
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Well, after reading this and the DSO2512G’s thread entirely, I have decided to go with Zeeweii’s offering. It costs a bit less, but it seems to have better functions and less issues than the DPOX180H. I hope I won’t regret it :) Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
you won't, but keep in mind that the zeeweii doesn't have a 20MHz bandwidth option, it's always at full bandwidth.
But it's way better than this unfinished toy fnirsi
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A little challenge for all owners of fnirsi like myself :palm:
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the amazing and wonderfull waveform :palm:
Fnirsi, fnirsi, naughty and wild boy!
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
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you won't, but keep in mind that the zeeweii doesn't have a 20MHz bandwidth option, it's always at full bandwidth.
The good thing is: You learn to make your own low-pass filters for the Zeeweii. For a penny and an egg. ;)
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you won't, but keep in mind that the zeeweii doesn't have a 20MHz bandwidth option, it's always at full bandwidth.
The good thing is: You learn to make your own low-pass filters for the Zeeweii. For a penny and an egg. ;)
exactly and you get a better scope, with a little less bandwidth but more functional e precise , and 3x battery life! at least with the units I've got.
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A little challenge for all owners of fnirsi like myself :palm:
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the amazing and wonderfull waveform :palm:
Fnirsi, fnirsi, naughty and wild boy!
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
I found the same problem and had informed FNIRSI. They are aware of this problem and they work on an update. Let's see if something happens....
But all in all the DPOX is not as bad as some owner blame it here. it has some bugs, yes. But it is a usefull toy... ehm instrument for the price. I still like it for what it is. And keep in mind: For this price you cannot await a lab scope. It actually has a 180MHz bandwith (with one active channel only) and the digital phosphor is actually working. The AC lo frequency rolloff is not a big problem for me. Not nice, but also not a big issue, only in rare cases.
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A little challenge for all owners of fnirsi like myself :palm:
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the amazing and wonderfull waveform :palm:
Fnirsi, fnirsi, naughty and wild boy!
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
I found the same problem and had informed FNIRSI. They are aware of this problem and they work on an update. Let's see if something happens....
But all in all the DPOX is not as bad as some owner blame it here. it has some bugs, yes. But it is a usefull toy... ehm instrument for the price. I still like it for what it is. And keep in mind: For this price you cannot await a lab scope. It actually has a 180MHz bandwith (with one active channel only) and the digital phosphor is actually working. The AC lo frequency rolloff is not a big problem for me. Not nice, but also not a big issue, only in rare cases.
I know, but if we don't press them they don't care, the more we talk about the problems the more they care otherwise sales drop :)
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I agree with you.
This oscilloscope helped me earn an additional $1,500 in 1.5 months.
Because it allows me to repair devices that I’m afraid to test with a $15k oscilloscope.
For the money, DPOX180H is quite good.
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This is going to sounds silly, but I wish the "phosphor" display mode could be turned off. I'm not even asking for "peak detect" or "high resolution" acquisition modes, but glitches and non-recurrent peaks are literally invisible with the "phosphor" treatment.
EDIT: With a firmware update to V30 the waveform looks a lot clearer. I'm keeping this post, however, for anyone who might be having a capture that looks *this* faint.
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Yeah, they patched this already but I also noticed that vertical features are still too faint sometimes...
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The 1206 does not fit me, there is 2 mm between the outer edges of the soldering points.
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Yeah, they patched this already but I also noticed that vertical features are still too faint sometimes...
Ok, thanks for your post. I assumed mine was running the latest firmware but apparently wasn't. Downloaded V30 from FNIRSI's website and the wave looks a lot better now :-+
I amended my original post.
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I replaced the capacitors.
So far it seems good, directly connected to the function generator with a 50 Ohm load, the measured voltage value does not change much between 0-60Mhz.
With the 10x measuring needle, on the other hand, the error is visible in AC/DC mode.
If you set it in the middle, I still think the distortion is tolerable.
I measured 230V AC, the difference between Fnirsi and HDS272 (in multimeter mode) was 3Vrms.
Regardless, as long as there is no "persistence" mode, I think phosphorous imitation is worthless.
if you set the brightness of the waveform to 100%, you won't be able to see the fast spikes clearly either.
Also, compared to the fact that it says 500M sampling is only 250M with the HDS more reliable trigger at the same setting.
Is there any information about the storage length? can "Storage Depth 120Kpts" be real? Do you know this only at a given time setting? so far I managed to squeeze 2-5K out of it, if you counted correctly.
Or maybe I misunderstood something.
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So far it seems good, directly connected to the function generator with a 50 Ohm load, the measured voltage value does not change much between 0-60Mhz.
With the 10x measuring needle, on the other hand, the error is visible in AC/DC mode.
If you set it in the middle, I still think the distortion is tolerable.
It's in 10X that I was seeing the problem (and still am, after replacing the cap). Not sure if I ever tried x1, but probe compensation is done with the probe at 10x, which is how I noticed.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one still watching a difference at 10x, after the cap "fix".
Is there any information about the storage length? can "Storage Depth 120Kpts" be real? Do you know this only at a given time setting? so far I managed to squeeze 2-5K out of it, if you counted correctly.
Or maybe I misunderstood something.
I would love to know how to test/measure that. How are you counting?
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instead of solving the problems this model has, they insert the "old" one into a new dress and try to fool everybody into buying another one with the same bugs :palm:
this is not a bug, this is a feature :)
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instead of solving the problems this model has, they insert the "old" one into a new dress and try to fool everybody into buying another one with the same bugs :palm:
this is not a bug, this is a feature :)
:) :palm:
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I don't know how legitimate this method is.:
Fnirsi's sampling is 500Ms/s, i.e. there are 2ns between two samples.
The storage/memory depth is 120kp, that is, if you make a single shoot in 20us/div from a 50Mhz color signal, it should be smooth.
[attach=4]
But if you zoom in on it
[attach=1]
There is 10ns between two points and the total length of the signal is 20us*12div, that is, it is only 24k samples.
If you don't watch it in 20us/div, but in 200us/div, you will see it better with a 5Mhz signal.
[attach=2][attach=3]
I couldn't insert the picture into the text, 16 belongs to 18 and 19 to 20
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I don't know how legitimate this method is.:
Fnirsi's sampling is 500Ms/s, i.e. there are 2ns between two samples.
The storage/memory depth is 120kp, that is, if you make a single shoot in 20us/div from a 50Mhz color signal, it should be smooth.
(Attachment Link)
But if you zoom in on it
(Attachment Link)
There is 10ns between two points and the total length of the signal is 20us*12div, that is, it is only 24k samples.
If you don't watch it in 20us/div, but in 200us/div, you will see it better with a 5Mhz signal.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
I couldn't insert the picture into the text, 16 belongs to 18 and 19 to 20
Well it sounds reasonable to me.
I tried to measure similarly, but under different parameters, and got the same results.
I single-trigger captured 240ms of a 1Mhz waveform (i.e: A full screen of data (12 divisions) at 20ms per division).
Then I zoomed in horizontally until I was able to measure the distance between data points. At 10uS I was getting exactly 1 data point per division. In fact, the oscilloscope didn't let me to go finer than 10uS per division (probably because at that point I was already at one data point per division).
So, 240 ms of waveform = 240000 us of data .... divided by 10us of separation between points = 24K points.
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I found myself wishing on multiple occasions that I could scroll around more. The triggering options are so limited (no holdoff, no pulse triggers, no video triggers etc.) that it would be at least nice to have more memory so I can still see the part I was interested in.
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Can you tell me about a device in this price category that can do what you wrote above?
Neither can the OWON HDS2202S, even though it is a nearly 300 USD device.
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A 15 year old entry level scope like the 1052E has all those trigger features, I assume it's not a hardware limitation? Guess there was just no budget for the software to add these things to ~100EUR scopes or they wanted to keep the UI simple?
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A 15 year old entry level scope like the 1052E has all those trigger features, I assume it's not a hardware limitation? Guess there was just no budget for the software to add these things to ~100EUR scopes or they wanted to keep the UI simple?
They will release someday a new model with one or two new features. At least now they design a new case for the same model, and start selling as a new product. Profit is the objective. They all do that. we just have to adapt to these buggy and unfinished devices. I use them in situations were they could be destroyed, instead of using a good and expensive scope.
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I think they mostly focus on big, flashy things you can easily advertise like bandwidth or the digital phosphor display. It's harder to sell 'we implemented trigger holdoff' or 'we now have absolute position readout for trigger level and cursors'.
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If you meant the Rigol DS1052E, I don't think it's in the same category. But it's fine.
The fact that he is 15 years old does not mean that he knows less. there are older but much better ones, just in a different price category.
I think advanced triggering also has hardware requirements, not just software.
Compared to the fact that it has a 24k memory depth of 500Ms or more, the trigger of the single is occasionally delayed.
Neither the 4/8k HDS272 nor the 15k? dso1511e+ I couldn't do it.
The tested signal is sine 10Mhz.
So I don't think any of the trigger options listed above could be used. Although a "persist" might have been feasible.
And the phosphoric property was simply colored in the line.
The small dots are just for decoration, I don't think they are real patterns.
In questionable circuits, it's good to measure with this first, it's not that expensive, but you can't trust it 100%.
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New firmware V4 has been released.
Updated to V4. I didn't notice any deterioration. But I also didn’t notice the improvements that worried me.
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Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
quote author=Rooster Cogburn link=topic=377636.msg5081950#msg5081950 date=1695823642]
Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
[/quote]
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
quote author=Rooster Cogburn link=topic=377636.msg5081950#msg5081950 date=1695823642]
Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
[/quote]
there's no V4 on fnirsi website, maybe it's beta version?
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Hello, I received my DPOX180H a few days ago. I really thought I bought a good portable oscilloscope for the money and I became convinced to buy it by all those reviews on YouTube that praise it so much. Of course reading this thread, makes me have a lot of doubts whether I should start using it as I cannot accept that a device you tend to depend upon so much for certain type of troubleshooting, can perform so poorly. People here are even talking about a hardware mod (the two smd capacitors) to make it behave somewhat more reliably. No, until a proper firmware is out, which I admit I'm doubtful if this ever happens, I'll put it on a shelf out of sight. As if this oscilloscope wasn't a bad enough experience, today I received the FNIRSI DSO-TC3. I had bought it mainly because of its build quality, which is better than your standard Chinese 20 Euros device. My main use for this device would be the ESR meter. Guess what, everything works except of the ESR meter. It treats every capacitor as having practically no internal resistance, the perfect capacitor! Others have also recognized the problem but not the YouTube reviewers! It came with V0.3 of the firmware and I don't know if this is the culprit or whatever. Very disappointed by FNIRSI!
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Hello, I received my DPOX180H a few days ago. I really thought I bought a good portable oscilloscope for the money and I became convinced to buy it by all those reviews on YouTube that praise it so much. Of course reading this thread, makes me have a lot of doubts whether I should start using it as I cannot accept that a device you tend to depend upon so much for certain type of troubleshooting, can perform so poorly. People here are even talking about a hardware mod (the two smd capacitors) to make it behave somewhat more reliably. No, until a proper firmware is out, which I admit I'm doubtful if this ever happens, I'll put it on a shelf out of sight. As if this oscilloscope wasn't a bad enough experience, today I received the FNIRSI DSO-TC3. I had bought it mainly because of its build quality, which is better than your standard Chinese 20 Euros device. My main use for this device would be the ESR meter. Guess what, everything works except of the ESR meter. It treats every capacitor as having practically no internal resistance, the perfect capacitor! Others have also recognized the problem but not the YouTube reviewers! It came with V0.3 of the firmware and I don't know if this is the culprit or whatever. Very disappointed by FNIRSI!
Don't believe in all youtube reviews, the majority are from people who get paid or receive free products from manufacturers, like influencers (liars) and that's what they do, lie to you so that you click and buy. The scope is nice for some tasks, but for others no way.
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Anyone know if there's a way to dim the screen on this thing? I'm sure default brightness would be great for daylight but when just testing something quickly of an evening it's damn bright. Might make the battery last a bit longer too.
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When I wanted to buy the DSO-TC3, the videos I watched on YouTube were quite downgraded, so I didn't order one.
Does "HF rejection" work for anyone in the trigger menu? I don't see the effect.
Also, the HardBandwidth limit at CH1 does not seem appropriate either.
Shouldn't the frequency above 20Mhz be completely cut off?
For me, it reduced the 60Mhz signal from 800mV to 400mV. the slow 20kHz signal was not modified.
Is it possible that the error could have been caused by the fact that I replaced the capacitors?
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I've got a message from Fnirsi with this download link (https://www.mediafire.com/file/tiq4au6ta5cbq26/FNIRSI-DPOX180H-V40.zip/file?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.9cd83e5fe7buME).
there's no V4 on fnirsi website, maybe it's beta version?
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RAPo What's the point my friend, you already tested V4 and it's worse than what we already have!
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It could be something specific to my situation
I would love to hear what other users experience.
Maybe some one needs thinner traces, I'm not really bothered.
RAPo What's the point my friend, you already tested V4 and it's worse than what we already have!
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RAPo It's like they try to heal an amputated leg with a band-aid! :palm:
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Don't believe in all youtube reviews, the majority are from people who get paid or receive free products from manufacturers, like influencers (liars) and that's what they do, lie to you so that you click and buy.
Yep. Most people who go to youtube looking for "reviews" are looking for confirmation that they're making a good choice.
Saying bad things in a video means most people will stop watching it half way though. No Youtuber wants that.
The scope is nice for some tasks, but for others no way.
Yep. Fnirsi doesn't really make anything that could be your only oscilloscope but they make a lot of things that can be useful for secondary jobs, or for taking to Arduino club (for example).
eg. I use a little toy 'scope because it doesn't take up much space on the bench when I'm doing things on camera. It's plenty good enough to just show a the shape of a wave and that's all I need.
(Having said that: ANY 'scope is better than no 'scope at all)
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
quote author=Rooster Cogburn link=topic=377636.msg5081950#msg5081950 date=1695823642]
Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
it is possible to downgrade?
what about "transparent menus" in new version? can be adjusted now?
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Yes, a downgrade is possible.
No idea about the transparent menus I'm back on V30.
I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
quote author=Rooster Cogburn link=topic=377636.msg5081950#msg5081950 date=1695823642]
Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
it is possible to downgrade?
what about "transparent menus" in new version? can be adjusted now?
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ru_tash Menu->System Settings->Transparent menus->Set to 0 to cancel transparency (Tested with v30).
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
quote author=Rooster Cogburn link=topic=377636.msg5081950#msg5081950 date=1695823642]
Fixes:
1: The thickness of the waveform is reduced, making the waveform thinner and clearer.
2: The vertical lines of the square wave are brighter and more obvious
So just some further tweaks to the waveform display. Haven't tried it, but better than nothing, I guess.
[/quote]
Isn't "The thickness of the waveform is reduced" against the purpose o DPO scope? some day it will be a DSO ;)
Anyway Fnirsi should give us an option to calibrate the device, it will be of much more interest
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
I upgrade it and on my unit only at 50mV/div there's some values updating. at 100mV/div no problems. No sluggish part on my unit after pressing auto and V+ or V- after, everything work fine. No probes connected. Will keep V40. Maybe some hardware thing with your unit? I bought mine in the end of Aug.
This bug not solved:
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the amazing and wonderfull waveform :palm:
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
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ru_tash Menu->System Settings->Transparent menus->Set to 0 to cancel transparency (Tested with v30).
in my case this does not work, i can set to 0% but when I quit settings menu then no change, it always 100%, v30.
restore to factory settings does not help.
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I've tried it, and I'm going back to the previous version:
-with no signal, the measurement bar is updating several times a second with nonsensical values
-the scope becomes very sluggish both in auto mode and pressing keys.
It takes almost a second to update after a V+ press,
pressing H+ gives a truncated trace for a second, only then refreshes.
I upgrade it and on my unit only at 50mV/div there's some values updating. at 100mV/div no problems. No sluggish part on my unit after pressing auto and V+ or V- after, everything work fine. No probes connected. Will keep V40. Maybe some hardware thing with your unit? I bought mine in the end of Aug.
This bug not solved:
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the amazing and wonderfull waveform :palm:
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
could be because of low value input ac/dc capacitor?
i've upgraded to v40, no sluggish noticed, they corrected menu with number of open measurements.
transparency still cannot be adjusted.
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I updated it, I like it better with the thinner line.
I have not experienced the errors described, if there is no signal and I do the two calibrations, it sometimes says 1.2xmV, but I had that before.
The error brought up by ptluis is seen at 5ns at several frequencies: 0.4 1.8 3.6 5.4 7.2 At 9kHz, the signal goes wild.
If both channels are active, the error is less frequent.
Transparency works for me on both the V30 and V40.
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ru_tash There's obviously some misunderstanding here. If you change the transparency setting, the device will remember your setting for as long as it's on. If you want the device to make the transparency setting permanent, you need to "Save current configuration", the option right below "Transparent menus"!
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ru_tash There's obviously some misunderstanding here. If you change the transparency setting, the device will remember your setting for as long as it's on. If you want the device to make the transparency setting permanent, you need to "Save current configuration", the option right below "Transparent menus"!
perhaps my english capability not enough to explain this issue clearly,
1. you go to Menu->System Settings->Transparent menus
2. Set to 0 to cancel transparency
3. during process 2, you can see in real time that grid and other menu elements are disappearing (fade out)
4. save current settings (although it is not obligatory unless you switch off device)
5. you quit menu with either sto/ret button or directly menu button
6. you see grid and other menu elements still on the screen without any noticeable change of brightness.
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ru_tash Oh, you mean something completely different. Setting this option to 0, just tells the device that WHILE YOU ARE AT THE MENU, you want the background to be black. It doesn't mean anything else outside the menu. It doesn't change the brightness, the grid or any information displayed on the screen while you're working with the oscilloscope!
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It will be a silly question, but has someone already asked fnirsi if the brightness of the device's display can be adjusted?
Is this function included in the device, and was it just forgotten in the software?
What I found was only menu transparency and waveform brightness.
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Is there a way to reduce the grid brightness or turn it off? I can't find any information about it
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system settings - Background grid display on/off
Did you think of this? can only be turned on/off.
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Aside from the buggy / incomplete firmware, could we at least confirm whether the capacitor mod is effective or even needed? Does it have a positive impact on the operation of the device?
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system settings - Background grid display on/off
Did you think of this? can only be turned on/off.
Stupid me, I was looking at Function settings :palm: Thank you
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ru_tash Oh, you mean something completely different. Setting this option to 0, just tells the device that WHILE YOU ARE AT THE MENU, you want the background to be black. It doesn't mean anything else outside the menu. It doesn't change the brightness, the grid or any information displayed on the screen while you're working with the oscilloscope!
ok I see now, but would anyone really need black/grey background only during setup parameters, especially fading with accuracy of 1%?
such a stupid useless feature....
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ru_tash Oh, you mean something completely different. Setting this option to 0, just tells the device that WHILE YOU ARE AT THE MENU, you want the background to be black. It doesn't mean anything else outside the menu. It doesn't change the brightness, the grid or any information displayed on the screen while you're working with the oscilloscope!
ok I see now, but would anyone really need black/grey background only during setup parameters, especially fading with accuracy of 1%?
such a stupid useless feature....
could be usefull when you apply "Auto Band limit" filtering level and "20MHz bandwidth limit" and see the results without having to exit menu settings
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they corrected menu with number of open measurements.
confirm Ch2 doesn't show anymore the residual label
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Ok, so I bit the bullet and upgraded to v40.
The thinner trace is actually good. I worried that it was going to lose the infamous "phosphor" quality if they made it thinner and/or crisper, but alas, the change is very small and the device's main selling point (the phosphor display) lives to see another day. The described 1Khz glitch is also present in my unit btw. Although I don't know if it's an intermittent trigger issue or it's just that they are getting some random samples that connect from one side to the screen to the other.
Anyway, regarding trace width, here's a comparison for people interested in what it looks like:
( I use noise as a "benchmark" because high frequency noise just looks like a block of solid color with random spikes in oscilloscopes with simpler digital traces)
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Ok, so I bit the bullet and upgraded to v40.
The thinner trace is actually good. I worried that it was going to lose the infamous "phosphor" quality if they made it thinner and/or crisper, but alas, the change is very small and the device's main selling point (the phosphor display) lives to see another day. The described 1Khz glitch is also present in my unit btw. Although I don't know if it's an intermittent trigger issue or it's just that they are getting some random samples that connect from one side to the screen to the other.
Anyway, regarding trace width, here's a comparison for people interested in what it looks like:
( I use noise as a "benchmark" because high frequency noise just looks like a block of solid color with random spikes in oscilloscopes with simpler digital traces)
I also think the V40 it's better because we can see the spikes without losing the dpo feature. in the meantime fnirsi ask me to make a video of the glitch problem and send it to an email address. we'll see if they solve the problem.
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The Russians also tried replacing the capacitor, they increased the 710 picofarad capacitor to 2000 picofarad.
But they make 7% mistakes.
I had 330pF in it and replaced it with 100nF and it's perfect.
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The Russians also tried replacing the capacitor, they increased the 710 picofarad capacitor to 2000 picofarad.
But they make 7% mistakes.
I had 330pF in it and replaced it with 100nF and it's perfect.
It didn't solve the problem for me. At least not with the probes set to 10x. Low frequency square waveforms are still distorted when the probe (at 10x) is compensated on DC coupling, and then I switch to AC coupling. If I compensate the probe on AC it will look fine, but if I switch to DC again now DC will be distorted.
Now, using a probe at 10x with a low frequency waveform only makes sense if you are measuring "high" voltages ("high" enough to require the by-10 attenuation), but still, *most* oscilloscopes don't behave like this. In almost every oscilloscope I have (except one) the probe compensation requires no additional adjustments when switching from DC to AC coupling.
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you're right, half solved it.
It is possible that it is not only a component assembly error, but also a design error.
I know it shouldn't behave that way, but it's at least partially usable. although now I'm thinking that I might sell it and buy a ds4t1012 150 Mhz instead.
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you're right, half solved it.
It is possible that it is not only a component assembly error, but also a design error.
I know it shouldn't behave that way, but it's at least partially usable. although now I'm thinking that I might sell it and buy a ds4t1012 150 Mhz instead.
At this point I'm considering it a minor problem. Especially because I tried the same with all my scopes and there's another one in my lab that also behaves this way. It's annoying, but as long as I'm aware of this, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Having said that, the closest competitor to this scope (the Zeeweei dso2512g) doesn't have this problem. Sure, it has a lower bandwidth and the menu system and trace drawing is very primitive in comparison, but at the very least it works consistently, provided that you don't push it with the bandwidth (Despite the 120Mhz claim of that scope I wouldn't use it above 50Mhz).
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1 more error.
Without a signal, vertical division is 200mV 1x and the trigger level is set to 200mV, the trigger is single.
Oh, and the trigger has a falling edge.
At 5-50nS, if you press a STO/RET button, it triggers nothing...
At 100nS, if I can see it well, but again at 200nS.
CH1 AC/DC is not affected.
If you succeed in pressing the RUN state, it is already stably waiting for the signal.
It is possible that the button is pressed twice.
But then why only for falling triggering?
Interesting.
If the baseline is in the upper half or right in the middle with the ORIG button, and the trigger arrow is in the upper part, the error will occur.
If I just put the trigger below the center line, there is no error.
If I move the base line below the center line, the error disappears.
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A representative of the FNIRSI company thanked me and offered me a $20 discount for the purchase of this oscilloscope in a new case.
Here is his answer:
Горшочек, не вари/ "Töpfchen, steh," )))
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I don't understand your situation? Do you have the trigger set on channel one or channel two?
I emulated your situation and set all settings on the first channel and everything works without errors.
According to your screenshot, you have the sensitivity set to -5mv on channel 2,
and the oscilloscope probe is reacting to interference.
Either disconnect the probe or short the probe.
And 200mv is the setting in your first channel.
I would like Fnirsi to correct the information on the screen, if the second or first channel of the oscilloscope is off, it should not be displayed on the screen and not misleading.
In my example, the second channel of the oscilloscope is off in the menu and the screen shows its sensitivity as 5mv
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I tried the other settings a bit and uploaded the picture from CH2, I tried to see if the error was the same on both channels.
I made a video, although the focusing didn't work out, if it's not clear I can try to make a better recording.
Turn the volume down a bit, I didn't manage to record the button being pressed.
https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg (https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg)
They behave a little differently, CH1 is denser while CH2 is less frequent.
If both channels are active, there was no error.
I also did the factory reset and then the calibration.
I changed the video link, the old one was of very poor quality.
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I tried the other settings a bit and uploaded the picture from CH2, I tried to see if the error was the same on both channels.
I made a video, although the focusing didn't work out, if it's not clear I can try to make a better recording.
Turn the volume down a bit, I didn't manage to record the button being pressed.
https://youtu.be/lXHz0NwcT0w (https://youtu.be/lXHz0NwcT0w)
They behave a little differently, CH1 is denser while CH2 is less frequent.
If both channels are active, there was no error.
I also did the factory reset and then the calibration.
Couldn't replicate this, but I assume it's just picking up noise from the environment. If you are doing this near strong switch-mode DC supplies, LED strips or AC halogen lights try turning them off and see if it makes any difference. Normally oscilloscopes wouldn't pick up much noise without probes attached (which would them act like antennas) but I don't think this device has a lot of shielding other than the tin can covers on both channel inputs (which is honestly more shielding than I was expecting from a device like this).
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Found a way how to edit FNIRSI's custom wave that is used for scope generation. it is by drawing samples in an audio software and tweaking in hex editor due to a bug in audio editor :-DD
https://youtu.be/OiMUORkPghE (https://youtu.be/OiMUORkPghE)
Below are screenshots before and after modification.
There upto 298 samples per capture that you can edit and then supply into Fnirsi DPOX180H back to use as output for its generator.
The format of samples is 8 bit. Low values corresponds to high amplitude. So to output max amplitude, draw waveform down. That is why the picture in audio editor looks mirrored vertically. Samples with values (low amplitude) will be clipped in output up to the values that shown on the screenshot below. It seems the very first 4 bytes in file are not samples as they have following format: 2 bytes is waveform number shown in built-in browser and the next 2 bytes is the length of waveform. I prefer to do not touch it as I am afraid it can broke or hang the scope. Sample number starting from 4 are the ones that safe to modify for the first Capture. I noticed that last sample in waveform is 0. Not sure does it go to generator to make waveform or used for other reason. All captures are stored in one file.
I tried to find its limit by output single sample at a highest frequency. Rise time is 20ns per volt.
I found that sometimes this audio software mess up with the file by incrementing every byte by one when it save file, including the metadata such as capture number and length of waveform making it useless. Sometimes it works fine. Not sure what cause issue. Sounds like an issue in that particular audio software. So final tweaks I made in hex editor, otherwise FNIRSI hangs upon opening captures browser.
How to modify:
- Capture some waveform with the scope
- connect scope to pc
- copy file Captures\data.cap to Captures.raw
- open the file Captures\data.raw with the audio software WavaPad as unsigned 8 bit raw data. That software accepts file extension raw, so before loading file needs to be renamed as .raw.
- Click on the draw button and draw by holding down the mouse button over waveform starting from sample number 4 upto the amount of samples written in bytes 3 and 4 (u16). There also audio effects, including filters and a form generator to have more fun.
- You will also see your previous captures there and be able to adjust them.
- When finish, save the file
- Open in hex editor to make a final tweak with data if necessary as audio software can mess up with indexes and frame length by incrementing data by 1.
- Rename back to data.cap.
Which waveform would be cool to see?
I also looked at the format of saved waveforms, the ones that creates by pressing SAVEW button. It seems 16 bit, 48k samples per file and can also be seen with the audio editor using the same technique. I guess audio data can be played, but might need some speed and pitch effect to be applied.
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Found a way how to edit FNIRSI's custom wave in scope generator by drawing in an audio software :-DD
I also looked at the format of saved waveforms, the ones that creates by pressing SAVEW button. It seems 16 bit, 48k samples per file and can also be seen with the audio editor using the same technique. I guess audio data can be played, but might need some speed and pitch effect to be applied.
This is very useful information! We can totally make a waveform editor with this.
:clap:
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I apologize for my poor wording and the poor quality of the video.
It is true that there is a lot of noise where I recorded the first video, 100V/m measured with ER02. I don't know how accurate this value is and how much it can be confusing.
I recorded the video again, this time sitting in my car, with a phone that at least has auto focus.
https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg (https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg)
Unfortunately, I don't know the language well, I use the translator, I hope I can write intelligibly.
The error appears for me when only one channel is active.
The CH1 channel manages to produce up to this level. The CH2 rarely does it.
I reduce the time to 5ns-50ns and the voltage to 5mv/Div.
I press an ORIG button, then move the trigger line up and press the STO/RET button, while moving the trigger line even higher.
There is a part in the video when I set the voltage of CH1 to 10V/Div and the error is still there.
The error is after 1:30 in the video, I was a bit unlucky before that.
And around 2:30 you can see that when I increased the voltage to 10 Volts.
I first noticed the error when I was looking at the trigger delay in single-shot mode.
None of my scopes behave this way, so I'm interested in what the reason is.
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I apologize for my poor wording and the poor quality of the video.
It is true that there is a lot of noise where I recorded the first video, 100V/m measured with ER02. I don't know how accurate this value is and how much it can be confusing.
I recorded the video again, this time sitting in my car, with a phone that at least has auto focus.
https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg (https://youtu.be/Yu_mY6qaujg)
Unfortunately, I don't know the language well, I use the translator, I hope I can write intelligibly.
The error appears for me when only one channel is active.
The CH1 channel manages to produce up to this level. The CH2 rarely does it.
I reduce the time to 5ns-50ns and the voltage to 5mv/Div.
I press an ORIG button, then move the trigger line up and press the STO/RET button, while moving the trigger line even higher.
There is a part in the video when I set the voltage of CH1 to 10V/Div and the error is still there.
The error is after 1:30 in the video, I was a bit unlucky before that.
And around 2:30 you can see that when I increased the voltage to 10 Volts.
I first noticed the error when I was looking at the trigger delay in single-shot mode.
None of my scopes behave this way, so I'm interested in what the reason is.
Ok so after playing with this A LOT, I managed to reproduce the issue but not consistently. It happened to me very rarely, and it was normally after using ORIG and 50% and then moving the trigger line or the waveform manually and re-arming the trigger again, at which point it would do what it's doing to you for a couple of seconds, and then it would behave normally.
So you might be right, there could be something weird there. Maybe the sampling buffer it's just treated as a circular buffer and any remnants of previous readings actually trigger the capture. But that would be me just randomly guessing at this point.
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Unfortunately, it's rare for me when it works well.
with the given setting.
But since I already know about it, I will be able to handle it.
fortunately, there is no such error at 100nS.
I hope it's just some software glitch.
I looked at several waveforms to upload. But the mistake was independent of that.
I am patiently waiting for the next firmware
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I played more with FNIRSI's custom generator and created in a software some test waveforms that anybody can use by copying attached Captures.zip into FNIRSI's internal disk:
1. Sweep sine 1 to 10. Good stuff to check built-in filters or get frequency response out of something.
2. Peaks to see built-in generator resolution. It can handle just a bit over 20 MHz.
3. Interleaved Hi-Lo to see the highest frequency sine the generator can make.. 44 MHz. Can be used in case if default 20MHz not enough.
As they were made with software, they are precise, ie in wave3 hi and low goes strictly one by one making whole waveform perfectly cycled. In wave1 Sweep sine is also precise as it was generated by a software and values have no noise. In wave 2 there is a pattern where you can see how much you can squeeze built-in generator as there is a pattern with hil-lo-hi samples and lo-hi-lo and single hi and single lo.
It seems generator supports a bit more than 300 samples at low freq, but FNIRSI software has some limitation.
Another thing is upon pressing SAVEW device records upto 48k points into file. 48k points for 5uS/div 1x Probe whereas on screen device shows only 48k/(5us*12divs*2ns per sample)=30k points for that time base and hides others.
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Either the oscilloscope is defective or there is a lot of interference.
You can also short-circuit the input and check.
My oscilloscope stopped charging a couple weeks ago, was the culprit ip2312
Already repaired, who will face the problem, pay attention, the chip has a ground pad on the body, unsolder with a hot air
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I have already tried, if there is noise, it should not occur at 10V/Div sensitivity, and the error only occurs if the above conditions are met.
By moving the baseline lower, the error is eliminated.
My fast edge generator arrived today, 50kHz 180ps rise time, 300Vrms. 300mVrms.
Direct BNC connection, I don't have to fiddle with the wire.
It's a bit tricky because you can't screw it onto the connector because it's countersunk, but fortunately the contact is good.
I tried it with AUTO trigger and in Single, unfortunately it didn't work as I wanted.
The rise time, if I managed to get it right, is 2.8ns at best, based on 0.35/rise time = 125Mhz.
My TO1104 gave the same result.
Could it be a result of replacing the capacitor? Kerry Wong got 1.8ns.
The other picture is with STO2202C.
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I have already tried, if there is noise, it should not occur at 10V/Div sensitivity, and the error only occurs if the above conditions are met.
By moving the baseline lower, the error is eliminated.
My fast edge generator arrived today, 50kHz 180ps rise time, 300Vrms.
Direct BNC connection, I don't have to fiddle with the wire.
It's a bit tricky because you can't screw it onto the connector because it's countersunk, but fortunately the contact is good.
I tried it with AUTO trigger and in Single, unfortunately it didn't work as I wanted.
The rise time, if I managed to get it right, is 2.8ns at best, based on 0.35/rise time = 125Mhz.
My TO1104 gave the same result.
Could it be a result of replacing the capacitor? Kerry Wong got 1.8ns.
The other picture is with STO2202C.
To rule out the capacitor as the culprit for this result, you can just set the CH1 coupling to DC (the capacitor was, supposedly, the AC blocking capacitor so shouldn't be part of the circuit when set to DC).
Having said that, considering the lack of horizontal timebase resolution, and the fact that rise-time measurement has to be done by hand with cursors over a span of a handful of pixels, I don't think we can get any real bandwidth measurement this way.
I tried with mine, and got somewhere in the vicinity of 150Mhz, for example. Keep also in mind that the probe could be affecting the result. I assume that you used the supplied probe in x10 (because I don't think it would've been wise to connect 300Vrms directly with a coax), and that probe, in my opinion, is not great. In my admittedly limited testing, it looks very non-linear over the 200Mhz range that should cover. If you sweep a generator over that range, you will see the amplitude go up and down by a considerable margin (or at least mine do).
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It behaves in the same way in AC and DC mode, I managed to find out based on many tests.
voltage sensitivity does not matter.
The first two are that the trigger is set to single shoot and falling edge.
The third is that only one channel should be active.
The fourth is that the base line should be in the top 4 pieces /Div, that is, the middle line and above. with the ORIG button, e.g.
The fifth is that the trigger line should be above the base line.
The sixth is the time setting.
5ns-50ns 200ns, 2us
It does it almost all the time at 5ns-50ns and 200ns.
It is probably what you wrote that something remains in my memory and triggers it, but that signal is not visible on the display.
I did not use a cable, it is connected directly to the BNC input.
Oops, sorry, not 300Vrms but 300mVrms.
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The new version v40 of the firmware has been uploaded to the official FNIRSI support page.
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The new version v40 of the firmware has been uploaded to the official FNIRSI support page.
Thanks for the heads up. I ran a binary comparison between the file on FNIRSI's website, and the one that was posted in this thread, and they are identical.
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The rising edge of the signal is now better visible,
but I would like it to be even brighter.
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Another comment,
If I start setting the time base with the H- button, the display update apparently freezes at 20s/div, even if I press the V+, V-, H+, H- buttons, it does not respond. more precisely, it doesn't respond to anything except the arrows!
If you reach 20s/Div.
Try to set the voltage sensitivity in any direction, it is best if you set it to half where you should hear the relay click.
You will not.
Then you press one of the buttons and it sets all values to the way you pressed the buttons. be it voltage or time value.
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I'll have to write to them and have them fix it.
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I'll have to write to them and have them fix it.
I have seen it once week ago.
Now it disappear. Not sure is it related, but I updated firmware and format internal disk.
Maybe you can record the issue on video with exact steps to reproduce from scratch and show on video your settings and probe settings in case if it is related.
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Another comment,
If I start setting the time base with the H- button, the display update apparently freezes at 20s/div, even if I press the V+, V-, H+, H- buttons, it does not respond. more precisely, it doesn't respond to anything except the arrows!
If you reach 20s/Div.
Try to set the voltage sensitivity in any direction, it is best if you set it to half where you should hear the relay click.
You will not.
Then you press one of the buttons and it sets all values to the way you pressed the buttons. be it voltage or time value.
Just tested this and it happens to me as well. I truly hope they fix bugs like this soon.
I really want to like this oscilloscope. The display is a treat, the menus are also very well organized and close to what you would get on a bench scope (at least closer than other handheld scopes). temp-coloring of the waveform is also a huge thing. Being able to capture parts of a wave to use in the generator is also fantastic, and the bandwidth seems to be pretty high for something of this price range and size. But the bugs are very frustrating (also after playing a lot with the probes I realized that I definitely need to change them. They are extremely bad).
Bugs aside, I really dislike how hard they made it to use the cursors, since they only a delta between vertical and horizontal for both channels (even when the other channel is disabled). I'd like to have X1, X2, Y1 and Y2 values, as well as ΔX and ΔY. Since there's a single timebase the readings of X1, X2 and ΔX don't need to be done "per channel". The Y measurements will of course depend on both the vertical offset of the channel, as well as the scale, so they could either display only the measurements on the currently selected channel (so if you switch to CH2 it would measure on CH2 params) OR, they could add a setting in the "cursors" menu that allows you to select the channel on which the cursor measurements are performed. Alternatively, they could display two small windows, one for CH1 and another one for CH2. That would waste screen space, but it's kinda what they are doing now by showing you measurements of CH2 even when it's not even enabled.
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I think the vertical cursor is a big bug, I don't see any point, especially if the two channels have different sensitivities.
Has anyone been able to use it for anything?
The question is why they haven't fixed it yet, even though they know.
I hope they add a persistence feature, then it will be possible to use it at least as much as the DSO2512G.
However, it is a good thing that they at least deal with it and have it repaired,
I have an instrument of a higher quality manufacturer, which I bought when it was released, but they added a new series and it went to the compressor... it has functional shortcomings, although the hardware could handle it, no updates...
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I think the vertical cursor is a big bug, I don't see any point, especially if the two channels have different sensitivities.
Has anyone been able to use it for anything?
The question is why they haven't fixed it yet, even though they know.
I hope they add a persistence feature, then it will be possible to use it at least as much as the DSO2512G
Yeah, the cursors are nearly unusable like this. I also hate that you can "move" and change CH2 or CH1 params even when a channel is not enabled, but that's a minor annoyance.
Persistence would be great, really.
I still can't believe that the DSO2512G, which is more basic in every possible way; has a simpler, crude trace display, extremely basic menu system (although shortcuts massively help), severely limited bandwidth (doesn't get anywhere near the claimed 120Mhz), no capture-and-replay arbitrary waveform functionality, no 20Mhz bandwidth limit, no temperature-colored trace, etc, still outmatches this scope when it comes to actually using it to make measurements or debug circuits :palm:, but that has also been my experience so far.
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severely limited bandwidth (doesn't get anywhere near the claimed 120Mhz)
I wouldn't put it that harshly.
It is certainly no longer in its comfort zone "up there", there is some jitter and the amplitude drops, but mine can definitely trigger and measure 120 MHz sine.
That is at least something. E.g. OWON HDS272 can't do that.
Otherwise, I agree with you that the Zeeweii is a no-frills tool.
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severely limited bandwidth (doesn't get anywhere near the claimed 120Mhz)
I wouldn't put it that harshly.
It is certainly no longer in its comfort zone "up there" and the amplitude drops, but mine can definitely trigger 120 MHz sine.
That is at least something.
Otherwise, I agree with you that the Zeeweii is a no-frills tool.
I like the Zeeweii, but at least my unit becomes very jittery above 50 Mhz, even with "overclock" mode enabled (which is according to the manual how it can get to >100Mhz). It' already a bad sign when the manufacturer recommends you to temporarily engage "overclock" mode to reach the claimed bandwidth). So I'm not willing to call the Zeeweii a 120Mhz scope. I tend to consider it more of a 50Mhz scope, and that's already more than acceptable for the form factor and price.
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I like the Zeeweii, but at least my unit becomes very jittery above 50 Mhz, even with "overclock" mode enabled (which is according to the manual how it can get to >100Mhz). It' already a bad sign when the manufacturer recommends you to temporarily engage "overclock" mode to reach the claimed bandwidth). So I'm not willing to call the Zeeweii a 120Mhz scope. I tend to consider it more of a 50Mhz scope, and that's already more than acceptable for the form factor and price.
I know what you mean and it can be put that way.
It's a bit like asking whether the bottle is half empty or half full.
I also find that it works quite well up to 50MHz and a less well above that, but that's enough for me at this price.
Nevertheless, I can check with this cheap device on which frequency a FM test transmitter works (88.0 MHz - 108.0... MHz) and you can't do that with every toyscope.
It also does not need 3 volts at the input for that, like my AWG with "frequency meter", but a few millivolts are enough.
I find that for its price it is quite a useful device and it does not annoy me.
The Fnirsi costs at least $40 more and that is quite a difference at this price level. Almost not comparable. ;)
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I know what you mean and it can be put that way.
It's a bit like asking whether the bottle is half empty or half full.
I also find that it works quite well up to 50MHz and a less well above that, but that's enough for me at this price.
Nevertheless, I can check with this cheap device on which frequency a FM test transmitter works (88.0 MHz - 108.0... MHz) and you can't do that with every toyscope.
It also does not need 3 volts at the input for that, like my AWG with "frequency meter", but a few millivolts are enough.
I find that for its price it is quite a useful device and it does not annoy me.
The Fnirsi costs at least $40 more and that is quite a difference at this price level. Almost not comparable. ;)
I definitely think the Zeeweii is a wonderful device for its price. The FNIRSI looks a lot more polished and had a tons of extras, but I still reach for the zeeweii because it's a lot more consistent, and doesn't have weird bugs and bizarre implementation of standard features like cursors.
Btw, back to the FNIRSI, Is anyone here getting extremely inaccurate Vpp measurements? Especially on x10? Like, even on low frequency waveforms, the moment I set it to 10x the Vpp measurements are not matching. I originally thought it was a difference in probe loading, but even probing a properly terminated 50 ohm source gives inconsistent measurements. The error is at best 10%, at worse like 30%. Switching to better probes gives me better results, but as I keep increasing the frequency the error keeps getting bigger and bigger. A 1V sine wave (that I've verified with other scopes that remains constant 1V in the 1-60Mhz range), even with a decent set of probes the FNIRSI would measure anywhere between 900mV to 1.25V depending on the frequency, sometimes increasing, sometimes decreasing.
It would be great if this scope had gain calibration, because I suspect that it's not only the included probes that are extremely non-linear, but also the scope (Incidentally, guess what budget portable oscilloscope DOES have a gain calibration procedure and doesn't give me weird unexplainable amplitude measurements ::) )
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it produces similar results for me.
Thanks for sharing, I didn't even notice that.
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it produces similar results for me.
Thanks for sharing, I didn't even notice that.
Well I'm glad I'm not alone in this, but it sucks that it happens. I would understand if the device started losing accuracy closer to the bandwidth limit, but discrepancies are all over the place even in low frequency signals.
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I made a measurement error. |O
Sig gen FY6800 60MHz
In the case when the polarity is measured correctly (as when using the BNC to BNC cable), the measured voltage between the two scopes is less than 5%. 1V measured from 0-60MHz.
If, on the other hand, I want to swap the two measurement points, that is, I connect the GND of the AWG to the input of the oscilloscope.
I connect the output of AWG to the GND of the oscilloscope.
Then the voltage level changes a lot and fluctuates.
It could be something on my side, I haven't figured out what's causing it yet.
I measured it directly on the BNC output of the AWG (without converter and extension) with the 10x test lead provided for the STO2202C, and it produced the same result. :-//
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Hello,
I'm also looking for a portable oscilloscope and I'm hesitating between the fnirsi dpox180h and the zeewei dso2512g...
For what I can see, as a newbie, after reading tons of videos and forum posts, the Fnirsi dpox180h seems interesting on the paper but I haven't yet seen great examples of its phophor functionality for diagnosis or analysis.
A lot of the online content is mainly about all the bugs and inaccuracy of that scope : not very reassuring, even if the firmware is evoluting there might be some hardware limitations due to the system by itself.
The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress :( )
So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?
Thanks in advance :-\
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Don't expect much from them, because these are not +2000 USD scopes.
I only need this primarily to measure with it first, if something is suspicious (so as not to burn the larger scope), or if I know that it can also serve me.
There is a cure for the inaccuracy seen in the videos.
two capacitors in the first series are of bad value, if you manage to buy them, you will have to replace them so that they don't measure stupidly at low frequencies.
Both are 500MS, only the fnirsi has a slightly nicer picture, it is more visible.
Apart from the software errors that are being repaired, and the fact that I think a basic function is missing, it can be a good choice.
I haven't used it live yet, I've only tested it at the table.
.
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The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress :( )
You can sometimes find promotions at the Zeeweii store as well, so it's hard to tell with the price difference.
Anyway, today the devices cost at the respective "Official Stores" (which I would recommend, because they do answer questions.):
ZEEWEII DSO2512G (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802899439203.html) : $86.40
FNIRSI DPOX180H (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805378473514.html) : $127.86
That's a price difference of 41.46. So the difference is almost half of the zeeweii price.
Maybe you don't mind the price, but it should be clear that for that difference, you can expect a slightly "better" device.
Whether the Fnirsi is really significantly better "in the field", I can not tell.
If you're just sending it ahead to save the expensive scope from burning like csuhi17, I'd go with the Zeewei simply because it's cheaper.
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Hello,
I'm also looking for a portable oscilloscope and I'm hesitating between the fnirsi dpox180h and the zeewei dso2512g...
For what I can see, as a newbie, after reading tons of videos and forum posts, the Fnirsi dpox180h seems interesting on the paper but I haven't yet seen great examples of its phophor functionality for diagnosis or analysis.
A lot of the online content is mainly about all the bugs and inaccuracy of that scope : not very reassuring, even if the firmware is evoluting there might be some hardware limitations due to the system by itself.
The dso2512g seems to be more viable for "in the field" work for the moment, the counterpart of this is the reduction of price between the two systems, as the gap seems to shrink (sometime 20€ difference on aliexpress :( )
So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?
Thanks in advance :-\
The DPO180H "looks" a lot better than the 2512G, with a sleeker design, sexier screen, phosphor trace goodness, 20Mhz bandwidth limiting, temperature-colored trace, etc. But none of that has actually been of use to me. I've been unable to use it to measure *anything* correctly out of the box, unlike the Zeeweii, which has actually been useful from day 1. With discounts you can get it very close to the price of the Zeeweii, BUT on arrival you should be ready to AT LEAST, do the following:
1.- Change the 2 AC blocking SMD capacitors in the front end.
2- Buy better probes. The ones included are abysmal
Now, the DPO180H has the advantage of a better frequency range. I've said this already but I wouldn't use the 2512G for anything above 50Mhz unless you are only "checking for a pulse" on your circuit. That unit also requires you to overclock it in order to barely reach the claimed bandwidth (at which point you can sort-of see a 120Mhz waveform, but forget about making any measurement on it). The DPO180H on the other hand doesn't require any fiddling to display a waveform up to, more or less, the claimed bandwidth. Both are supposedly 500MSa/s, so I suspect that the frontend implementation and the "processor" in both units is what makes the difference in their performance, but that's just a guess.
Other Advantages of the DPO: Being able to capture a waveform and then use it directly in the function generator is a huge plus.
Other disadvantages: Shorter battery life, Extremely menu-heavy UI; Everything is done through menus, unlike the Zeeweii that has numerous (somewhat intuitive, once you learn them) key shortcuts.
So, if you need high frequency response, or any of the fancy features of the DPO, and you are willing to either deal with the bugs or wait for fixes, and you are also OK with spending a bit more time and money fixing the caps and changing the probes, then the DPO180H is what I'd recommend.
If you don't need to measure anything >50Mhz, and you want something that is practical to use, with longer battery life, and you are OK with a rather lackluster UI and crude trace, then the Zeeweii would be my recommendation.
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I made a measurement error. |O
Sig gen FY6800 60MHz
In the case when the polarity is measured correctly (as when using the BNC to BNC cable), the measured voltage between the two scopes is less than 5%. 1V measured from 0-60MHz.
If, on the other hand, I want to swap the two measurement points, that is, I connect the GND of the AWG to the input of the oscilloscope.
I connect the output of AWG to the GND of the oscilloscope.
Then the voltage level changes a lot and fluctuates.
It could be something on my side, I haven't figured out what's causing it yet.
I measured it directly on the BNC output of the AWG (without converter and extension) with the 10x test lead provided for the STO2202C, and it produced the same result. :-//
I haven't done the experiment of switching GND and signal, but I did try with a straight coax connection (no probe) last night, and there was still a bit of a gain error, but it was a lot more acceptable than the measurements with the provided probes.
Now, just to highlight how garbage the included probes are (and incidentally, to also show the discrepancy in vertical gain at different sensitivity levels) ; this is supposedly a 1Vpp sine wave:
[attach=1]
At 200mV per division, the oscilloscope shows 1.25Vpp, which is a 25% error. Switching to better probes, the amplitude reported at this sensitivity level was almost exactly 1V, so, if you are using a good probe, at this vertical scale, things would have been great.
[attach=2]
If you change the sensitivity to 500mV, there's a 34% error (with the included probes). Using a better probe was showing something like 1.15V, which is somewhat more acceptable, and kinda reasonable for a waveform that is using just 2 divisions, vertically.
So my conclusions from this are that the included probes (at least the ones I got) are not making the scope any favors so you must change them if they are as bad as this, but also, it would be great if there was a way of adjusting the gain per sensitivity level (like on the Zeeweii) because I don't think they are being that well calibrated from factory.
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More fun with FNIRSIS internal signal generator. I ended up with a code that just creates a signal inside the generator if it is connected as drive D without any other manual steps.
Code is here:
https://github.com/nik1nik1/SaveSignaltoFNIRSIGenerator
Attached are screenshots of a PWM sine that it makes which looks okay at low freq. At 2MHz scope makes something that resemble a sine out of it thanks to its input capacitors :-DD.
I played with Tetronix generator and Audacity Audio editor and found that it is difficult to use them with FNIRSI and they have limitations as it requires a lot of manual steps and just can not do some things rather than simple ones.
Have fun
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thanks csuhi17, Aldo22 and battlecodder for all your informations and advices :)
Not easy to make a choice , but I can feel more potential in the firnsi, and I already have two good probes from an analog Hitachi oscilloscope, so I can easilly go break the warranty and replace the two capacitors :D
Hopefully the firmware will still evolve , and the phosphor will reveal its full power ;)
Also, even if for the moment I will use this device for check/repair audio systems, power supplies, home automation, I 'm aiming to work on systems where the higher frequency bandwith will be appreciated.
By the way, in term of functionality, there's no such persistence mode on the firnsi dpox180h compare to the zeeweii dso2512g ? (as stated by ptluis who seems to use this regularly).
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By the way, in term of functionality, there's no such persistence mode on the firnsi dpox180h compare to the zeeweii dso2512g ? (as stated by ptluis who seems to use this regularly).
That's correct. There's no persistence mode on the FNIRSI. I guess the phosphor display works a bit like a very short persistence mode, but it's nowhere near as useful as a 1s or infinite persistence, which are both available on the Zeeweii.
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Derived 90 MHz out of Fnirsi's built-in generator by using custom capture with hi and lows. 150 repeating hi-lo at 600kHz makes 90MHz. Anything higher collapses waveform. That capture can be used to get frequencies from 20MHz to 90MHz. I tried to attach it, but the site seems has some issue with attachments today.
Not sure what is wrong with the site attachments. It throws the error invalid_filename upon uploading a file with any name, eg: 90 MHz.png
https://youtube.com/shorts/4zUMhxtxrIc?si=gP8Y1fB07r4z2NgP (https://youtube.com/shorts/4zUMhxtxrIc?si=gP8Y1fB07r4z2NgP)
That capture was generated with the software code that I wrote.
https://github.com/nik1nik1/SaveSignaltoFNIRSIGenerator/blob/main/README.md (https://github.com/nik1nik1/SaveSignaltoFNIRSIGenerator/blob/main/README.md)
I also added few AM captures into generator.
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So what should I do ? go for the new dpo crossing my fingers to hope for a new firmware which will correct the bugs and give plenty access to the new functionalities or be on the safe side by choosing the already validated dso ?
I haven't tried either of the scopes mentioned here, but my experience is:
Fnirsi: Got one of their cheaper scopes for on-the-go fault finding (like, digging inside the control box for garden gates and similar). It had weird bugs (or maybe features) and I hated it so much I gave it away for nothing here on EEVBlog.
Zeewei: Replaced the Fnirsi with a DSO3D12. Didn't expect much but quite impressed with it. Tried a few things to make sure it wasn't going to flake out like the Fnirsi did and it coped well. It is exactly what I bought the Fnirsi for, but a bit better, and for the price I am very happy with it.
Have to say that it would take a lot to have my buy any Fnirsi scope again. Your, and others, mileage may vary.
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I can't give you a suggestion.
This is a rather buggy scope, if it is fixed it can be used for basic tasks.
I only do it as a hobby and less often because of my work, and my knowledge is quite limited.
If I were to buy a scope for work, I would definitely not choose this as my main scope.
Only for smaller, not so important tasks, and I measure with this first so that I don't ruin the more expensive ones if I make a big mistake.
If the persistence property is written into the program, I think it will not be as we expect, since even a single waveform is already multi-color, it shows only the middle of the signal. Even if you set persistence, the last displayed waveform will cover the one behind it.
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I don't have this problem until 20 MHz. And at a higher frequency the generator does not allow me.
Maybe you didn't switch to 10x mode on the probe? As the manual for the oscilloscope and probes advises, at frequencies above 5 MHz, switch to 10x.
On the attached screenshots, on the first channel there is a probe from the scope of delivery of the oscilloscope, on the second channel there is a direct probe without a BNC-BNC attenuator.
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Apparently the new housing is sold separately:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiZiW_2zy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiZiW_2zy8)
::)
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Apparently the new housing is sold separately:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiZiW_2zy8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiZiW_2zy8)
::)
Instead of cases they should solve serious problems this scope has. In the meantime it's the same "marvellous" piece of unfinished technology. save your money.
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I've got a chance to test the new case.
I must say this is an improvement.
The buttons are not as stiff as the original version.
The probes are more accessible to insert if you have fat fingers (like I have).
Of course, the inner workings have not changed.
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I've got a chance to test the new case.
I must say this is an improvement.
The buttons are not as stiff as the original version.
The probes are more accessible to insert if you have fat fingers (like I have).
Of course, the inner workings have not changed.
set FG to 1KHz Square Wave, 2 Vpp, 50% duty
press Auto
Press H+ until H=1us (top indicator) watch the glitch
Keep pressing H+ until H=5ns watch the glitches on the waveform
Bellow 32KHz is useless, we can't trust anymore on the displayed image if we zoom in (not zoom button)
It's also seen at 0.4, 1.8, 3.6, 5.4, 7.2, 9kHz and many more flavours
New dress, same old .... :palm:
Fnirsi simply don't care about solving important bugs, instead they launch a new collection of dresses for the same doll :-DD
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I'll know. :-+ But I want to be honest, my first complains was about connecting the probes and the stiff buttons. The new case is much better regarding these points.
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I ended up buying a set of P2200 probes that "fixed" the accuracy problems I was having. It was literally driving me mad that at higher frequencies the amplitude would lose accuracy so wildly. As I've been using it more frequently, I've come to appreciate the instrument considerably more. Given a decent set of probes it's as useful as the Zeweeii but with a higher bandwidth and extra features (ok, and some weird bugs and quirks, but it's not like the Zeweeii is hassle-free). At least I'm no longer losing hair because the measurements don't match my other instruments.
Now, It would be great to make a "wave management" software to backup, restore, view and export captured waveforms (to CSV for example). Maybe to also convert regular wave captures into signals for the frequency generator and vice-versa
As it is right now, even the simple act of creating backups of your waves and restoring them (with a different filename/number) cannot be done without modifying the files, because apparently some bytes inside the files need to match the filename. A program to take care of all of this would be fantastic.
Once I finish with other projects I could tackle that, assuming that @Nik is not already working on it :P
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Hello,
I have bought this scope to debug tube amplifiers so I'm mainly interested in audio frequencies 20Hz-20kHz and high voltages 300V+.
1. Does anyone know whether DPOX180H has AC coupling capacitor before or after the 1Meg resistor? As I understand, if coupling capacitor is before the 1Meg resistor then regardless of probe attenuation 1:10 or 1:100 in AC mode this capacitor will see the full 300V+ voltage which it is not rated for.
2. If I replace these capacitor (as suggested in this thread earlier) with 100nF 400V rated ones, will this work? Or is there another circuitry inside the scope that sees the full voltage in AC mode?
3. Is it possible to replace the SMD capacitor with non-SMD leaded one? Or will this introduce inductance to the circuit and make readings inaccurate?
Thanks you,
Igor.
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Does anyone know whether DPOX180H has AC coupling capacitor before or after the 1Meg resistor? As I understand, if coupling capacitor is before the 1Meg resistor then regardless of probe attenuation 1:10 or 1:100 in AC mode this capacitor will see the full 300V+ voltage which it is not rated for.
For anyone curious, I opened the scope and measured myself.
The 1Meg resistor to ground (actually multiple resistors in series) is the first thing signal sees when entering the scope. Therefore with 1:10 probe attenuation it should be safe to use in AC coupling mode.
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Dave reviewed the unit with the revised case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR6_Lp7fH_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR6_Lp7fH_c)
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Bravo!
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What pisses me off is the lack of visible calibration results.
Here's what I found:
if the measurements are underestimated, it is necessary to calibrate the base line and the system by applying a negative voltage to the input, approximately at the level by how much less the measurement is. And vice versa.
Well, and then you will figure it out yourself. I have voiced the idea.
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Most likely the setup in the DPOX180H is similar to the 1013D. The baseline calibration uses the offset generated with PWM to get an ADC reading of 128 and it then looks at the differences between the two (or four in this new one) ADC's to get more or less the same output from each. It assumes an open input, which allows you to make adjustments with a supplied voltage.
Since the design of the sampling hardware looks just like what is in the 1013D, I suspect that they are overclocking the ADC's. To get the 500MSa/s they have to create the proper clock signals for each of the two chips with the needed 45 degree phase difference between them, and merge the sample data in the right order. The jitter I saw in Dave his review video most likely is caused by the imperfection in it all.
I do wonder if they used more of the available memory in the FPGA, or that they reused the crappy design of the 1013D. The front end looks different, but not sure if it improved much, going by the remarks in this thread.
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Just received this new toy, but sorry for not reading all the texting before.
FW upgraded to V4, and what I mentoined:
1. Is it decoupling capacitor (for channel AC coupling) too small, causing at even 1kHz square waveform (probes @10X properly compensated with DC coupling and looks ok) to be very distorted? (1st pic)
2. At 50nS/div with both channels enabled there is some BW limitation (all BW limiting options are disabled), 100nS/div and 20nS/div and other near, as well as 50nS/div with only single channel enabled seems all OK. (2nd+ pics)
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Found a way how to edit FNIRSI's custom wave that is used for scope generation. it is by drawing samples in an audio software and tweaking in hex editor due to a bug in audio editor
Nik,
Thanks for your very interesting method for reading and editing the Capture data.cap files. I have tried to duplicate your method but unfortunately I cannot get the DPOX180H to generate the Capture folder or the data.cap files. It only sends my laptop the Screenshots and the Waveform folders. There is no Capture folder with data.cap files on the USB Drive (D:) .
Do you have any good advice?
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Found a way how to edit FNIRSI's custom wave that is used for scope generation. it is by drawing samples in an audio software and tweaking in hex editor due to a bug in audio editor
Nik,
Thanks for your very interesting method for reading and editing the Capture data.cap files. I have tried to duplicate your method but unfortunately I cannot get the DPOX180H to generate the Capture folder or the data.cap files. It only sends my laptop the Screenshots and the Waveform folders. There is no Capture folder with data.cap files on the USB Drive (D:) .
Do you have any good advice?
What is on drive D then?
Have you tried a new fw?
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Yesterday when I used device for the first time in a while I noticed that it is very buggy and frequently require reboot. fw: v4.
The bug is on triggering in Single. In Run mode it show previous waveform upon changing time or V scale. Other bug is after some successful triggering in Single it starts to skip and require reboot.
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Yesterday when I used device for the first time in a while I noticed that it is very buggy and frequently require reboot. fw: v4.
The bug is on triggering in Single. In Run mode it show previous waveform upon changing time or V scale. Other bug is after some successful triggering in Single it starts to skip and require reboot.
welcome to the club! set your horizontal timebase to 20s and then try to exit the frozen state the scope enters. the only way I've found is to press menu and H+ alternate several times to get it out of the frozen state. It's a shame fnirsi doesn't care to solve basic firmware defects and only care about sales. I've sent them several videos showing problems that turn the device useless, but not a single answer. there are cheaper options in this price range. btw don't even try to set 50s timebase or you'll have to open the case and disconnect the battery because you can't turn the device off. at least on my unit. Really bad device.
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When I froze it, long pressing the on/off button helped me.
Nik
If it freezes, have you tried the arrows?
If you press too many buttons, it slows down even more.
If the time base is above 100ms/div and there is nothing connected to the input and you press an AUTO button, the rolling mode will speed up.
At 20 and 50s/div, after pressing auto, you have to press an arrow, if you press another button, it freezes.
These are not practical uses, but it should still be able to handle this.
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Nik,
You asked:
What is on drive D then?
Have you tried a new fw?
All that is on drive D is the waveforms folder and the screenshot photos folder. I did not try new firmware and I do not know how to tell what firmware is loaded.
I contacted FNIRSI by email and asked them about the Capture data.cap files and they told me:
"The DPOX-180H device only supports saving screenshots and waveform files in the firmware".
I can't do tests right now since I gave away the DPOX180H for Christmas. I have ordered another from China which is coming on a slow boat.
Do the Capture data.cap files still work now that you have installed V40?
Thanks,
PlasMan
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Nik,
You asked:
What is on drive D then?
Have you tried a new fw?
All that is on drive D is the waveforms folder and the screenshot photos folder. I did not try new firmware and I do not know how to tell what firmware is loaded.
I contacted FNIRSI by email and asked them about the Capture data.cap files and they told me:
"The DPOX-180H device only supports saving screenshots and waveform files in the firmware".
I can't do tests right now since I gave away the DPOX180H for Christmas. I have ordered another from China which is coming on a slow boat.
Do the Capture data.cap files still work now that you have installed V40?
Thanks,
PlasMan
Those files are hidden system files. To see them you may need to turn on such visibility option in windows settings.
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When I froze it, long pressing the on/off button helped me.
Nik
If it freezes, have you tried the arrows?
If you press too many buttons, it slows down even more.
If the time base is above 100ms/div and there is nothing connected to the input and you press an AUTO button, the rolling mode will speed up.
At 20 and 50s/div, after pressing auto, you have to press an arrow, if you press another button, it freezes.
These are not practical uses, but it should still be able to handle this.
Yea, I have seen all those bugs. Device is buggy and not reliable. I am thinking to buy a rigol, but it is much bulky, pricey and have no battery and has its own bugs, but functionality is much better.
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Nik,
You asked:
What is on drive D then?
Have you tried a new fw?
All that is on drive D is the waveforms folder and the screenshot photos folder. I did not try new firmware and I do not know how to tell what firmware is loaded.
I contacted FNIRSI by email and asked them about the Capture data.cap files and they told me:
"The DPOX-180H device only supports saving screenshots and waveform files in the firmware".
I can't do tests right now since I gave away the DPOX180H for Christmas. I have ordered another from China which is coming on a slow boat.
Do the Capture data.cap files still work now that you have installed V40?
Thanks,
PlasMan
Those files are hidden system files. To see them you may need to turn on such visibility option in windows settings.
Thanks Nik. I will look for hidden system files when my DPOX180H gets delivered.
I recently bought a Rigol DHO914S and I like it a lot. It is much better than the DPOX180H but it is also much larger and heavier. The DPOX180H will mostly stay in the tool bag for field use.
PlasMan
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After reading all these issues I would massively suggest the vendor to open source the firmware. This can cause many poor users to turn to hackers with a collaborative effort and probably increase sales as well.
:)
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It is much better than the DPOX180H but it is also much larger and heavier.
Tell me something about price...
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Bug found: When using cursors with zoom mode, the cursor-based calculations do not scale with the zoom. Screenshots attached, zooming in on the generator stepped sawtooth should give a much smaller interval measurement - as it is this feature is useless..
Also: You should be able to move the baseline above and below the display area - at least in stop mode - to allow inspection of small portions of larger signals, like ripple on the upper half of a square wave.
And lastly: It would be nice if double pressing one of the channel buttons (or pressing CH1/2 when in the CH1/2 menu) would immediately enable/disable that channel.
Maybe someone of you guys with a contact to Fnirsi can forward this in the hope of a firmware update? :)
Apart from that I am really impressed by this thing! Much more of a useful tool than expected, surprisingly good user interface, reasonable feature set, yet affordable. :-+
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Hi, does anyone know if this is a bug or is it working as intended please?
I've been trying out this handy little device and quite enjoying it. Unfortunately I have a bad habit of leaving things on and draining the battery, so I was eager to set the auto shutdown schedule. I thought this would shut the scope off after the set period of IDLE time (maybe no button presses), but instead it seems to shut it down while you're in the middle of using it when it reaches the duration you've set. Its particularly frustrating as the device doesn't save your current setup at power off.
Also, at normal power off it doesn't prompt 'are you sure?' or require a long press or anything so if you touch the power button by mistake... |O
Thats with the latest (V4) firmware I could find.
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I got my 180h, and I like it. Much better scope stuff than zoyi 703s.
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I got my 180h, and I like it. Much better scope stuff than zoyi 703s.
Does it have a multimeter mode?
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I got my 180h, and I like it. Much better scope stuff than zoyi 703s.
Does it have a multimeter mode?
DPOX180h No
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I got my 180h, and I like it. Much better scope stuff than zoyi 703s.
Does it have a multimeter mode?
DPOX180h No
I want a variety of uses. Not very focused on specific tasks
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I already have good MM.
Got the 703 for mostly the scope side, with MM just a bonus.
But 703 scope not there yet, buggy FW.
180h is just scope, but has the FFT I was looking for.
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I have been using the oscilloscope a lot and I have some comments. Although most are already handled in various tests. The performance of the oscilloscope is excellent one must say, but it may be overly sensitive to high frequencies. However, if one activates the 20 MHz limit on the channels and sets "Auto Bandwidth Limit" to "3", and then saves the whole configuration by clicking "Save Current Configuration", the instrument becomes less sensitive to high frequencies – and also starts up in that mode after turned off. You can always change the bandwidth back to the required level as needed. High bandwidth (higher than needed) and amplification often lead to unwanted interference.
One of the most frustrating aspects of using the oscilloscope was plugging in the connectors to the input and the generator output. Although the modified variant is better, it's not perfect either. Therefore, I created a simple extension that works well, which you can see in the pictures. Two cheap BNC extenders and some scrap stuff plus a little work made the trick.
Regarding the question of whether type 1 or type 2 is better, I think Type 2, that version has larger keys and is easier to insert the BNC connectors in. Bigger keys are better to operate. It may also lock better. However, I chose Type 1 because of its lower price. The performance of both types is identical - they only differ in their wrapping as far as I can see.
An updated manual is also attached 😊
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Yesterday, I added a SMA connector for the new version (yellow).
For the old version (blue one) one of the first things I added was some banana jacks.
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Yesterday, I added a SMA connector for the new version (yellow).
For the old version (blue one) one of the first things I added was some banana jacks.
Blue old?
They sell the "new" version in both colors.
I got a "new" version, in blue.
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Old in the sense of the initial offering or v1.
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Is there posibility to change menu language in menu or by flashing new FW?
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Is there posibility to change menu language in menu or by flashing new FW?
press move+power-on buttons together, choose language and press mod/ok
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After a couple of hours of use, I wanted to turn it off and the screen crashed.
after pressing the power button again, it turned off normally.
I hope they release a bug fix soon.
Have they already replaced the incorrectly chosen capacities in the newer sold versions?
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I hope they release a bug fix soon.
Have they already replaced the incorrectly chosen capacities in the newer sold versions?
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Have they already replaced the incorrectly chosen capacities in the newer sold versions?
I sold my "old" version and bought the new one a couple of months ago. I have not disassembled it, but considering what I saw in my tests after receiving the unit I don't think they did.
I didn't bother modding this new unit because even with "better" caps the problem wasn't fully gone. It was better, but still there.
I can check by opening the unit tomorrow, assuming people here are truly interested in knowing whether they made any change to the caps they picked for the new version :-//
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What's the sense of replacing it then?
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What's the sense of replacing it then?
Just to be clear, the problem occurs when measuring low-frequency waveforms (up to a couple of KHz) in AC coupling mode, with the probe at 10x. If you don't replace the caps, you get a severely attenuated signal under those conditions. Replacing the caps improves the situation and lowers the attenuation by a lot, making it a lot more useful in those scenarios BUT it doesn't eliminate it entirely.
After I sold my old unit and got a new one I couldn't be bothered to do the mod, mostly because I've not used the device a lot, and but also because I'm already aware of the problem so I can avoid it by not using the probe at 10x with low frequency signals if I want AC coupling.
I might still do the mod, but it's not in my priority list.
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What's the sense of replacing it then?
Just to be clear, the problem occurs when measuring low-frequency waveforms (up to a couple of KHz) in AC coupling mode, with the probe at 10x. If you don't replace the caps, you get a severely attenuated signal under those conditions. Replacing the caps improves the situation and lowers the attenuation by a lot, making it a lot more useful in those scenarios BUT it doesn't eliminate it entirely.
After I sold my old unit and got a new one I couldn't be bothered to do the mod, mostly because I've not used the device a lot, and but also because I'm already aware of the problem so I can avoid it by not using the probe at 10x with low frequency signals if I want AC coupling.
I might still do the mod, but it's not in my priority list.
So in this case where 10x is an issue, is it better to use 1x with a divider network? Example pic.
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So in this case where 10x is an issue, is it better to use 1x with a divider network? Example pic.
Well if you want to start adding external circuitry it would be simpler to try external ac-blocking first, since it's their selection of ac-blocking cap what is questionable (although I think at one point it was determined that the ac-blocking is happening after the input resistor that forms the voltage divider with the probe, and thus it's not as simple).
Now, I don't really do a lot of AC probing. At most I use AC coupling when measuring noise in switching supplies, but the frequency in those scenarios is usually is high enough for this to not be an issue, and if they were really low-frequency (in the <10 KHz range), I still could get around this problem by not using the probe at 10x.
If I had a need to measure high voltage low frequency AC signals regularly, I would definitely prefer to mod the unit over adding external circuitry or ignoring the issue.
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Hello I wanted to ask how long does this oscilloscope need to fully charge? The red diode has never changed color during charging or gone out, only the indicator at the top showed a higher battery charge - is this normal or did I buy a damaged model? Best regards.
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in 3-4 hours.
If you turn it on, you can see it in the upper right corner of the indicator.
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in 3-4 hours.
If you turn it on, you can see it in the upper right corner of the indicator.
Ok thanks for the instructions. Yes I see the arrow and the increasing battery capacity while charging but the power button still lights red so what is the full battery indicator in this oscilloscope? :) How do I know that the battery is fully charged?
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in 3-4 hours.
If you turn it on, you can see it in the upper right corner of the indicator.
The problem is that the charge indicator increases to maximum after 30 minutes of charging - does this device have any battery charge detection?
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To be honest, I don't know, I rarely use it, I mostly work with my Owon HDS272s.
I'm used to putting it on the charger and taking it off after a few hours.
I don't pay much attention.
I noticed that I have some charger that does not want to charge it.
It is possible that this is also a bug.
What you can possibly try, I just don't know with mine right now, because it's fully charged,
If it is almost completely drained, put it on a charger and turn it on after half or an hour.
If it shows full, you disconnect the charging cable.
In theory, the charge level indicator will then dropt back down.
But I repeat, I have not dealt with such things, I just use it and charge it.
If the battery is half full, then 2 hours. If empty then 3-4 hours.
If you're really interested, you can monitor it with an external device or with a charging cable that displays current or power.
Or make something that disconnects the scope from the charger and tells you with an LED that charging is complete.
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To be honest, I don't know, I rarely use it, I mostly work with my Owon HDS272s.
I'm used to putting it on the charger and taking it off after a few hours.
I don't pay much attention.
I noticed that I have some charger that does not want to charge it.
It is possible that this is also a bug.
What you can possibly try, I just don't know with mine right now, because it's fully charged,
If it is almost completely drained, put it on a charger and turn it on after half or an hour.
If it shows full, you disconnect the charging cable.
In theory, the charge level indicator will then dropt back down.
But I repeat, I have not dealt with such things, I just use it and charge it.
If the battery is half full, then 2 hours. If empty then 3-4 hours.
If you're really interested, you can monitor it with an external device or with a charging cable that displays current or power.
Or make something that disconnects the scope from the charger and tells you with an LED that charging is complete.
I understand you. I have a USB cable with a voltage monitor from what I remember after about an hour of charging the power dropped from 8-9W to 5W. I will repeat the tests today and describe what and how. Yes, it may be a bug and what is worse, if the voltage system does not disconnect the batteries, they may be damaged after some time.
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Hi,
Generally the charger will terminate at 10% of the preset charge current. So when initially charging a discharged battery, it will charge at a constant current of say 500mA.
As the battery is charged, the charging reverts to constant voltage and when the current falls to around 10% of the full charge current, 50mA in the example, the charging should terminate.
Many of the low-cost products may not support simultaneous charge and power, and therefor may not terminate the charge cycle if the device is turned on, this is because the current drawn is greater than the termination current.
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Thank you all for your help - I repeated the charging process and indeed the power dropped to 5W at first and after about 3 hours to 0W and the red power diode turned green, which means everything is working as it should. :)
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I just ordered a DPOX180H, and noticed those weird plots radiolistener was showing:
But 5 GS/s looks crazy even if they used equivalent time sampling, so I'm not sure if I decoded it properly... :)
Very interesting! I decided to download some of the .wav data shared here. I'm no professional but I have a crazy idea about what's going on.
If you plot the .wav files in e.g. Python (try plt.plot(np.fromfile("foo.wav", dtype=np.uint16))), you will see that the noise seems to be an exact offset of 256 counts, up or down. See my attachment for an example.
In fact, it seems that bits 8:15 tend to flip too early. For example, here's an ascending sequence:
julia> string.([5323, 5631, 5428], base=2, pad=16)
3-element Vector{String}:
"0001010011001011"
"0001010111111111" # <-- bit 8 flipped before it was supposed to!
"0001010100110100"
where we can see that if we didn't flip bit 8 preemptively, it would've been a reasonable value. Similarly, a descending sequence:
julia> string.([10249, 9986, 10230], base=2, pad=16)
3-element Vector{String}:
"0010100000001001"
"0010011100000010" # <-- bits 8, 9, 10, 11 flipped too early!
"0010011111110110"
Hmm! My guess is that actually, somehow they are only measuring eight bits at a time of the uint16, starting at the least significant byte, and so there is a sort of race-condition where they check the lower byte, then the signal transitions to flip some bits in the upper byte, and then they check the upper byte. As a result you have a uint16 that is 256 too high or too low, depending on if the signal was increasing or decreasing at the time.
Is this a known trick? Maybe this is something that's happening in the FPGA? Or maybe they are using 8-bit ADCs and doing some clever switching?
Once my scope arrives I'll test and see if the same happens. If so I'll email FNIRSI, but I'm sure they already know about this. Maybe this is why they don't release info on the file format, and why they laser etch the ADC model....
In any case, for the purposes of data analysis on a signal much slower than your sample rate, this is probably trivial to fix in post—just scan along the data, and any time the upper byte increments, check if the lower byte is bigger than the lower byte of the next sample. If it is, decrement the upper byte. And same for the reverse.
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Hmm! My guess is that actually, somehow they are only measuring eight bits at a time of the uint16, starting at the least significant byte, and so there is a sort of race-condition where they check the lower byte, then the signal transitions to flip some bits in the upper byte, and then they check the upper byte.
Hahahaha. I'm stupid. I bolted awake to realize that this is not a race condition sort of thing, it's just that the data is big-endian, and starts at an odd offset.
Try np.fromfile("10MHz-1V.wav", dtype=">u2", offset=1) to read. Or increase offset if you want to skip all the metadata, etc.
I'll work more on the file decoding later but we have the basics down.
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I have found a new video showing a new bug/crash of this device when using the usb function. Try on your units to see if it happens.
https://youtu.be/NLNTrn9KVrk
Aha! I have this too on my Linux machine, but I fixed it.
After using Wireshark to capture the USB traffic, I found that the device was timing out after the host sent it an SCSI Read command, for 240 blocks. I then also found this: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=219027
It seems like the DPOX180H can only buffer something like 128 blocks at a time over SCSI. Linux doesn't find out about this for interesting reasons (see bugzilla link) and the mass storage chip on the DPO fails to throw an illegal request error like it's supposed to (https://stackoverflow.com/a/33372494) but instead just completely crashes. This also explains the text disappearing afterwards. Windows is probably either playing it safe with low default maximum block limits or looking at the Block Limits VPD page.
So on Linux, one solution is to edit the udev rules like this:
$ cat /etc/udev/rules.d/fnirsi.rules
# DPOX180H seems to have a transfer limit of something like 128 blocks
ACTION=="add|change", SUBSYSTEM=="scsi", ATTR{model}=="F1Cx00S Disk ", ATTR{max_sectors}="128"
and then of course do udevadm trigger. After doing that I was successfully able to mount the scope as mass storage and flash a firmware update to it.
I don't have a mac so I can't help there, sorry. :P
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Today I'm going to change my opinion about the dpox180h. I bought the first version and honestly I didn't like it, it froze a lot. I updated the firmware to 3.0 and the problems continued, mainly with the trigger, which in a certain sequence of operations was not possible to access the menu to change the trigger mode. I then decided to update the firmware to 4.0 and the oscilloscope got much better, there was no freezing since I installed it, the trigger menu bug was also solved, the waveform is finer and details are noticeable. I have used it to test sensors, single-phase and three-phase motors, controllers, signals from ECU and I must say that it is completely satisfactory. Therefore, the Fnirsi has risen in my consideration because it really fixed some of the problems and did not forget the first versions. In this last point, Zeeweii and its dso2512g took the wrong direction, where the first versions were set aside in terms of updates or improvements. There are about 3 or 4 different versions and when they make improvements they forget about the previous units and sell a new one. That's the deal. So it's only fair that I correct what I wrote in previous posts for those who consider my previous comments before deciding to purchase. Thank you, have a nice day :-+
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Indeed and if you buy the new (yellow) version the pressing of the buttons will substantially be better. You don't need to buy a new scope only the casing.
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Indeed and if you buy the new (yellow) version the pressing of the buttons will substantially be better. You don't need to buy a new scope only the casing.
and where can i find the case? can you post a link? thanks
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I can't find a product link. Will ask finirsi if they still sell it.
The upgrade video is here:
https://youtu.be/VsiZiW_2zy8
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I can't find a product link. Will ask finirsi if they still sell it.
The upgrade video is here:
https://youtu.be/VsiZiW_2zy8
ok thanks 👍
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Indeed and if you buy the new (yellow) version the pressing of the buttons will substantially be better. You don't need to buy a new scope only the casing.
Do you know if the hardware of the second model is the same as the first one? same pcb, components, etc?
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No I don't. I had an early blue DPOX and applied the yellow upgrade kit. The upgrade is hardware-independent.
Indeed and if you buy the new (yellow) version the pressing of the buttons will substantially be better. You don't need to buy a new scope only the casing.
Do you know if the hardware of the second model is the same as the first one? same pcb, components, etc?
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My contact at FNIRSI told me that no (yellow) shells are available.
I can't find a product link. Will ask finirsi if they still sell it.
The upgrade video is here:
https://youtu.be/VsiZiW_2zy8
ok thanks 👍
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My contact at FNIRSI told me that no (yellow) shells are available.
I can't find a product link. Will ask finirsi if they still sell it.
The upgrade video is here:
https://youtu.be/VsiZiW_2zy8
ok thanks 👍
Hello thank you for your time. Its not a big problem, the keys with some degree of usage are becoming soft.
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Guys, what conclusion for this toy for now? 8)
Real sample rate not 500MSps? Real BW 50-60?
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Guys, what conclusion for this toy for now? 8)
Real sample rate not 500MSps? Real BW 50-60?
https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275 (https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275)
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https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275 (https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275)
I see BW 180Mhz is real...what about real sample rate...maybe count points on of zoomed wave...
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I see BW 180Mhz is real...what about real sample rate...maybe count points on of zoomed wave...
No, they are just for decoration, maybe it helps in reading, but they are not the real samples.
I just measured it and there is about 400 ps between two points,
2.5Gsa/s?! yes yes for sure.
If I remember correctly, the teardowns revealed that the real one is 500MSa/s, but we don't know the real memory depth.
That's why I dared to buy the next version from them.
It's a big disappointment, Fnirsi hasn't come to its senses, it's still producing more and more waste.
But this DPOX180H is still in the usable category.
It should be taken into account that Fnirsi's support period is much shorter than that of other manufacturers.
If you're lucky, two updates will be released and that's it.
1 was released for the DPOX180H, not a single one was released for the 2C53P, but more pieces are coming...
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https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275 (https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275)
I see BW 180Mhz is real...what about real sample rate...maybe count points on of zoomed wave...
I don't think it's real. Based on the sampling rate and everything, it looks to me that they are doing a lot of interleaving to get to those numbers. I don't think it would behave well with a non-periodic waveform. At least based on my tests.
It's still a pretty usable scope and one of the best handheld scopes I've tried, but I do not think they fully meet the specs.
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https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275 (https://youtu.be/9-EHjiijSA0?si=4e3-Bn9dDtOr_Geo&t=275)
I see BW 180Mhz is real...what about real sample rate...maybe count points on of zoomed wave...
I don't think it's real. Based on the sampling rate and everything, it looks to me that they are doing a lot of interleaving to get to those numbers. I don't think it would behave well with a non-periodic waveform. At least based on my tests.
It's still a pretty usable scope and one of the best handheld scopes I've tried, but I do not think they fully meet the specs.
500 MSa/s may be real, the fastest rise time measured with it was between 3 and 4 ns. I couldn't measure it more precisely, just by eye.
I was able to get a 4ns rise time with a single trigger. Which was the same on the Owon HDS2202.
Whichever principle you follow, a 500MSa/s scope will never be 180MHz, only for repetitive samples.
Bandwidth (Hz) = 0.35/rise time(s) or sampling rate/10 .
Rigol DG912Pro, pulse, 3ns Rise time, 1Hz.
IMAGE1 with Owon HDS2202
12 with the DPOX180H
One of my biggest concerns, besides the many bugs, is that it often freezes. No new firmware for almost a year?! forgotten project...
otherwise it can be used.
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Hello everyone.
I heard that when using high-quality probes, the oscilloscope errors are not so large. Surely there are people here who have expensive high-quality probes, have you checked their effect on the readings?
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Hello everyone. I bought myself such an oscilloscope. I immediately decided to replace these ill-fated capacitors. And here's what I found out. After replacing the capacitor in channel 2, I decided to compare them with each other. I connected a probe with a 1:10 divider, at a constant voltage and set it to 50 mV/division. And applied 5 volts from the power supply to the input of each channel. It turned out that in the channel in which I replaced the capacitor, after disconnecting from the power source, a self-oscillating process occurs. In the first one, in which the capacitors are original, it does not. Most likely, these capacitors perform some kind of filtering function, but are not separating. Although, maybe I'm wrong.
Video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU (https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU)
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Hello everyone. I bought myself such an oscilloscope. I immediately decided to replace these ill-fated capacitors. And here's what I found out. After replacing the capacitor in channel 2, I decided to compare them with each other. I connected a probe with a 1:10 divider, at a constant voltage and set it to 50 mV/division. And applied 5 volts from the power supply to the input of each channel. It turned out that in the channel in which I replaced the capacitor, after disconnecting from the power source, a self-oscillating process occurs. In the first one, in which the capacitors are original, it does not. Most likely, these capacitors perform some kind of filtering function, but are not separating. Although, maybe I'm wrong.
Video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU (https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU)
Hello I tried to replicate your problem but couldn't. I had the capacitor mod done like it was explained a few posts back. Maybe you have a different hardware version than mine. Mine is one of the first units to be released.
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I also have one from the first series, and I replaced the capacitors with the recommended ones.
I also have the error.
I give the channel a low-frequency square wave signal, and it ripples at the top and bottom.
It is not noticeable above 60 Hz.
Something similar was mentioned in previous posts.
If you search for "capacitor" within the post, you'll find it easier.
And also that the two replaced capacitors are in the AC coupling circuit, so they should not distort the signal.
I can also produce this error by measuring a lithium battery.
But testing this in 50mV/Div with a 5Vpp signal...
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But testing this in 50mV/Div with a 5Vpp signal...
I chose this mode only to enhance the effect. At high V/div levels after I remove 5 volts from the input, the line also oscillates up and down, but with a smaller amplitude.
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I also have one from the first series, and I replaced the capacitors with the recommended ones.
I also have the error.
I give the channel a low-frequency square wave signal, and it ripples at the top and bottom.
It is not noticeable above 60 Hz.
Something similar was mentioned in previous posts.
If you search for "capacitor" within the post, you'll find it easier.
And also that the two replaced capacitors are in the AC coupling circuit, so they should not distort the signal.
I can also produce this error by measuring a lithium battery.
But testing this in 50mV/Div with a 5Vpp signal...
Ok i confirm this, the same effect
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Ok i confirm this, the same effect
Hello!
My oscilloscope is still on its way and I ordered the corresponding 100nf capacitors for it
Considering the effect found when installing such capacitors, does this mean that the 100nf capacitance is not suitable and another one should be selected?
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... It turned out that in the channel in which I replaced the capacitor, after disconnecting from the power source, a self-oscillating process occurs. In the first one, in which the capacitors are original, it does not...
On the unmodified channel, the inadequate behavior of the oscilloscope "beam" is also clearly visible, it's just that the attenuation occurs much faster. To prevent this from happening, you should not overload the input stage with inadequate voltages for the given sensitivity. On the unmodified oscilloscope, this rule works perfectly and there are no self-oscillations at 50 mV or even at 5 mV.
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Hi everyone,
I'm encountering a very specific and reproducible issue with the FNIRSI DPOX180H scope that seems to relate to internal channel crosstalk or grounding problems — possibly worsened by firmware or thermal effects.
Symptoms (Firmware V40):
After ~15–20 minutes of warm-up, when only CH1 is enabled, any waveform that crosses the center horizontal line (0V ref) starts getting modulated/distorted.
This happens even with clean signals from known good sources.
If CH2 is enabled, the problem goes away or is significantly reduced. It seems having both channels active changes the internal grounding or bias behavior.
The issue also appears when the signal touches that sensitive center area, even for a moment.
After full warm-up, even the idle flat line starts showing high-frequency parasitics when approaching the center of the display.
CH2 itself gets affected too, once active — the distortion moves to whichever channel is displaying a waveform near the center.
On V20 firmware, this behavior happens only when the battery is low, not when using external USB power. But V40 seems to exaggerate the effect even on USB power.
What I suspect:
This seems to be a combination of:
Grounding/reference drift after warm-up
Input buffer or ADC reference instability
Possible internal digital-to-analog coupling or layout flaw
Some users noted similar parasitic behavior at high timebase resolutions (e.g. 10ns/div) — this adds weight to internal layout or shielding flaws.
Has anyone else seen this?
Is there a known hardware workaround (internal grounding mod, capacitor, or shielding)?
Are FNIRSI aware of this issue?
I've tried:
All firmware versions (V20, V30, V40)
USB external power vs battery
Input termination, grounding, signal types, channel isolation
No resolution so far. FNIRSI has not replied for over two months.
Thanks in advance for any insight or confirmation.
Note: Tested two pieces product.
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Hi everyone,
Are FNIRSI aware of this issue?
...
No resolution so far. FNIRSI has not replied for over two months.
Thanks in advance for any insight or confirmation.
Note: Tested two pieces product.
Yes and here is the answer from the developer.
He opened two new threads here to discuss his DPOS350P and next scope, but he didn't answer many things and I haven't seen anything news from him in a while.
DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales are too terrible. The dealers sell it at a very high price. A handheld oscilloscope can't survive at this price. So I have given up on DPOX180H and haven't produced it for nearly a year.
Even if they know about it, they don't care, they'll make the next 4GSa/s scope, and support for the older ones has been discontinued for the above reasons, if there was any at all.
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Hi friend,
Thank you for your information.
This situation is very sad and unfair for device owners. They might have their own reasons, but a company that doesn't stand behind its products is not trustworthy. How do they plan to sell their future products and stay afloat? They have followed a very wrong policy; they will be the ones to lose.
Best Regards
Bugra
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This situation is very sad and unfair for device owners. They might have their own reasons, but a company that doesn't stand behind its products is not trustworthy. How do they plan to sell their future products and stay afloat? They have followed a very wrong policy; they will be the ones to lose.
Well there is a sucker born every minute that thinks wow that looks like a nice cheap scope and buys it without reading or watching reviews, so the company won't suffer as long as the products are cheap enough.
Just take the 1013D and 1014D, even though fully exposed to be crap and have fraudulent specification, they still sell.
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This situation is very sad and unfair for device owners. They might have their own reasons, but a company that doesn't stand behind its products is not trustworthy. How do they plan to sell their future products and stay afloat? They have followed a very wrong policy; they will be the ones to lose.
Well there is a sucker born every minute that thinks wow that looks like a nice cheap scope and buys it without reading or watching reviews, so the company won't suffer as long as the products are cheap enough.
Just take the 1013D and 1014D, even though fully exposed to be crap and have fraudulent specification, they still sell.
If you're calling me a sucker, I was one of the first people to buy the product. At that time, there weren't many reviews available. In the videos from early reviewers, it was said to be quite good for the price. The issues only started to show up with continued use, and we were expecting updates. Updates were released, but they weren't sufficient. Sometimes, they even made things worse. No one could have predicted from the start that the company would follow such a policy. Yes, they produce cheap devices, like many others. And no one expects top-level professional performance. But errors that reach the level of defects have nothing to do with the device being cheap. That’s called fraud.
Regards
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
I actually bought a second 1013D to be able to compare the behavior between the original firmware and the one I was writing. Also bought a 1014D just to see if it was any better.
The first 1013D I bought out of need for a small scope device to use while developing embedded stuff on my computer bench. It arrived with a defective touch panel, which started my adventure in reverse engineering. At the time it was just released so not a lot known about it.
The suckers in the world are the ones that buy it now, with so many youtube reviews showing what crap devices they are.
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
I actually bought a second 1013D to be able to compare the behavior between the original firmware and the one I was writing. Also bought a 1014D just to see if it was any better.
The first 1013D I bought out of need for a small scope device to use while developing embedded stuff on my computer bench. It arrived with a defective touch panel, which started my adventure in reverse engineering. At the time it was just released so not a lot known about it.
The suckers in the world are the ones that buy it now, with so many youtube reviews showing what crap devices they are.
Guys, you are not alone, I am another sucker, I also bought it without reviews because I urgently needed a device to quickly see the presence of signals, it has served me for 90% of situations, so I'm feeling a little less sucker :palm:
but in general it has several bugs that make it useless for other situations, mainly measurements whose values are incorrect, at least in my device, for ex RMS value are way off by a lot. the only positive thing is that it is battery operated so floating when i need to check AC power lines.
I bought mine for 70€ but will never pay today's prices of 130€, not worth it. The just released dpos350p for 230-250€ certainly I won't buy it, for around 100€ maybe if the FRA work ok, otherwise no.
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
I actually bought a second 1013D to be able to compare the behavior between the original firmware and the one I was writing. Also bought a 1014D just to see if it was any better.
Hi Firend,
I'm sorry to hear about the negative experience you had. It's not just this brand; nowadays, across all sectors and brands worldwide, products are being manufactured with much lower quality. First, they reduce the quality to avoid significant price increases, and then over time, they raise the prices anyway. As purchasing power decreases, companies emerge producing alternative products, and unfortunately, this is the result.
While technology has advanced, and everything should be better, the opposite has happened. A "use and throw away" philosophy has developed because everyone is chasing higher profits. The consumer has become prey, with their money being the target. This same situation exists in every sector, from food to clothing, household goods to health products.
Regards
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
I actually bought a second 1013D to be able to compare the behavior between the original firmware and the one I was writing. Also bought a 1014D just to see if it was any better.
Hi Firend,
I'm sorry to hear about the negative experience you had. It's not just this brand; nowadays, across all sectors and brands worldwide, products are being manufactured with much lower quality. First, they reduce the quality to avoid significant price increases, and then over time, they raise the prices anyway. As purchasing power decreases, companies emerge producing alternative products, and unfortunately, this is the result.
While technology has advanced, and everything should be better, the opposite has happened. A "use and throw away" philosophy has developed because everyone is chasing higher profits. The consumer has become prey, with their money being the target. This same situation exists in every sector, from food to clothing, household goods to health products.
Regards
That is called capitalism fed by greed. >:D
It indeed seems to now be a buy it cheap and throw it away as soon as used culture.
With concerns about climate change and diminishing resources, people and politics try to reverse this trend and climb the fence for the "right to repair", etc, but I fear it is to late. :palm:
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
Guys, you are not alone, I am another sucker, I also bought it without reviews because I urgently needed a device to quickly see the presence of signals, it has served me for 90% of situations, so I'm feeling a little less sucker :palm:
but in general it has several bugs that make it useless for other situations, mainly measurements whose values are incorrect, at least in my device, for ex RMS value are way off by a lot. the only positive thing is that it is battery operated so floating when i need to check AC power lines.
Hi friend,
As you said, at least I'm glad it worked for you. Unfortunately, professional devices are needed to get perfectly accurate measurements, and they are expensive.
Mid-range devices generally give close results to each other. However, while there isn't complete precision, their prices are more acceptable.
The important thing here is that the device doesn't have hardware and software problems. When we've already settled for average results, we also end up paying for faulty devices. It's also uncertain how many months or years they will work.
My mid-range devices that I bought 15-20 years ago still work and take better measurements than today's devices in the same segment. As I said in my previous message, everything is going towards lower quality.
Regards
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No,
Hi Firend,
I'm sorry to hear about the negative experience you had.....
Regards
That is called capitalism fed by greed. >:D
It indeed seems to now be a buy it cheap and throw it away as soon as used culture.
With concerns about climate change and diminishing resources, people and politics try to reverse this trend and climb the fence for the "right to repair", etc, but I fear it is to late. :palm:
I completely agree. :'(
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If you're calling me a sucker....
No, I'm not, because that would make me a sucker too. :palm:
Guys, you are not alone, I am another sucker, I also bought it without reviews because I urgently needed a device to quickly see the presence of signals, it has served me for 90% of situations, so I'm feeling a little less sucker :palm:
but in general it has several bugs that make it useless for other situations, mainly measurements whose values are incorrect, at least in my device, for ex RMS value are way off by a lot. the only positive thing is that it is battery operated so floating when i need to check AC power lines.
Hi friend,
As you said, at least I'm glad it worked for you. Unfortunately, professional devices are needed to get perfectly accurate measurements, and they are expensive.
Mid-range devices generally give close results to each other. However, while there isn't complete precision, their prices are more acceptable.
The important thing here is that the device doesn't have hardware and software problems. When we've already settled for average results, we also end up paying for faulty devices. It's also uncertain how many months or years they will work.
My mid-range devices that I bought 15-20 years ago still work and take better measurements than today's devices in the same segment. As I said in my previous message, everything is going towards lower quality.
Regards
These devices are ok for fast probing for the presence of signals but for accurate measurements I'll use professional stuff, anyway i still think that without proper quality check and serious improvements, specially measurements accuracy, these kind of devices should stay at the 100€ max limit price. on the 200€ range you'll have better options.
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Ok i confirm this, the same effect
Hello!
My oscilloscope is still on its way and I ordered the corresponding 100nf capacitors for it
Considering the effect found when installing such capacitors, does this mean that the 100nf capacitance is not suitable and another one should be selected?
Can someone answer this question?
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Ok i confirm this, the same effect
Hello!
My oscilloscope is still on its way and I ordered the corresponding 100nf capacitors for it
Considering the effect found when installing such capacitors, does this mean that the 100nf capacitance is not suitable and another one should be selected?
Can someone answer this question?
Well my friend I can't answer your question because I never did the capacitor mod. I use the scope in original hardware state.
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Hello!
My oscilloscope is still on its way and I ordered the corresponding 100nf capacitors for it
Considering the effect found when installing such capacitors, does this mean that the 100nf capacitance is not suitable and another one should be selected?
Can someone answer this question?
[/quote]
Did you think about this effect?
Hello everyone. I bought myself such an oscilloscope. I immediately decided to replace these ill-fated capacitors. And here's what I found out. After replacing the capacitor in channel 2, I decided to compare them with each other. I connected a probe with a 1:10 divider, at a constant voltage and set it to 50 mV/division. And applied 5 volts from the power supply to the input of each channel. It turned out that in the channel in which I replaced the capacitor, after disconnecting from the power source, a self-oscillating process occurs. In the first one, in which the capacitors are original, it does not. Most likely, these capacitors perform some kind of filtering function, but are not separating. Although, maybe I'm wrong.
Video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU (https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU)
The commenter in this video tested a 5V signal with a 50mV DC setting, and the error was very visible.
The capacitor we replaced is theoretically in the AC circuit, it should not interfere with the DC thing.
I had various problems with this device even before the modification, there are functions that do not work properly.
If I remember correctly, this effect is only significant below 60Hz.
I can't test it anymore because I loaned it to someone else for a longer period of time.
And ptluis, who wrote in the previous comment that he did not modify it, would experience the same effect.
If I understood what I read back quickly,
I also have one from the first series, and I replaced the capacitors with the recommended ones.
I also have the error.
I give the channel a low-frequency square wave signal, and it ripples at the top and bottom.
It is not noticeable above 60 Hz.
Something similar was mentioned in previous posts.
If you search for "capacitor" within the post, you'll find it easier.
And also that the two replaced capacitors are in the AC coupling circuit, so they should not distort the signal.
I can also produce this error by measuring a lithium battery.
But testing this in 50mV/Div with a 5Vpp signal...
Ok i confirm this, the same effect
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Hello!
My oscilloscope is still on its way and I ordered the corresponding 100nf capacitors for it
Considering the effect found when installing such capacitors, does this mean that the 100nf capacitance is not suitable and another one should be selected?
Can someone answer this question?
Did you think about this effect?
Hello everyone. I bought myself such an oscilloscope. I immediately decided to replace these ill-fated capacitors. And here's what I found out. After replacing the capacitor in channel 2, I decided to compare them with each other. I connected a probe with a 1:10 divider, at a constant voltage and set it to 50 mV/division. And applied 5 volts from the power supply to the input of each channel. It turned out that in the channel in which I replaced the capacitor, after disconnecting from the power source, a self-oscillating process occurs. In the first one, in which the capacitors are original, it does not. Most likely, these capacitors perform some kind of filtering function, but are not separating. Although, maybe I'm wrong.
Video:
https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU (https://youtube.com/shorts/qMXeUA08IGU)
The commenter in this video tested a 5V signal with a 50mV DC setting, and the error was very visible.
The capacitor we replaced is theoretically in the AC circuit, it should not interfere with the DC thing.
I had various problems with this device even before the modification, there are functions that do not work properly.
If I remember correctly, this effect is only significant below 60Hz.
I can't test it anymore because I loaned it to someone else for a longer period of time.
And ptluis, who wrote in the previous comment that he did not modify it, would experience the same effect.
If I understood what I read back quickly,
I also have one from the first series, and I replaced the capacitors with the recommended ones.
I also have the error.
I give the channel a low-frequency square wave signal, and it ripples at the top and bottom.
It is not noticeable above 60 Hz.
Something similar was mentioned in previous posts.
If you search for "capacitor" within the post, you'll find it easier.
And also that the two replaced capacitors are in the AC coupling circuit, so they should not distort the signal.
I can also produce this error by measuring a lithium battery.
But testing this in 50mV/Div with a 5Vpp signal...
Ok i confirm this, the same effect
[/quote]
The exact same effect! My unit was one of the first batches to be released.
I recently bought two spot welders from fnirsi, the first one is from the very first batches and it has as glitch with brightness if set to a value of 4 ( if i recall correctly) , the second one operates 100%, The first batches normally presents defects. I experienced the same with almost all devices I bought from fnirsi.
Other brands are not different, my first Siglent SDS1202X-E also had problems and it was necessary to solder a capacitor, The second Siglent same model, manufactured in 2024 its fine.
We just have to live with that unfortunately.
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Hello everyone!
A couple of months ago, I ordered DPOX180H on Aliexpress. But it looks like it got lost along the way and they will refund my money.
While I was waiting for this oscilloscope, I read a lot about this oscilloscope on this forum, and I realized that Fnirsi as a company and this oscilloscope in particular are not the best choice.
Please tell me which oscilloscope is best to buy for this money ($120) instead of DPOX180H?
For me, it is important:
- That the oscilloscope can operate from its battery or from a power bank.
- That it has a real operating frequency of 50 MHz
- That it is possible to upload not only screenshots, but also a file of the recorded wave.
I am going to use it for minor repairs of a car, laptops and other electronics (not professionally for myself)
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Hello everyone!
A couple of months ago, I ordered DPOX180H on Aliexpress. But it looks like it got lost along the way and they will refund my money.
While I was waiting for this oscilloscope, I read a lot about this oscilloscope on this forum, and I realized that Fnirsi as a company and this oscilloscope in particular are not the best choice.
Please tell me which oscilloscope is best to buy for this money ($120) instead of DPOX180H?
For me, it is important:
- That the oscilloscope can operate from its battery or from a power bank.
- That it has a real operating frequency of 50 MHz
- That it is possible to upload not only screenshots, but also a file of the recorded wave.
I am going to use it for minor repairs of a car, laptops and other electronics (not professionally for myself)
Well the dpox180h has nice graphics, colors, but it's a complete garbage concerning measurements, as an example real 229.8V RMS are displayed in the scope as 195V RMS, all other measurement are way out, so it's useless.
On the other side, you'll have the Zeeweei DSO2512g, cheaper but better concerning measurements, no so fancy with colors but it has persistence mode of 1 sec and infinity (the dpox180h does not).
I use the dpos180h for quick test, like for example the output wave of an 220V inverter (be careful when using this scope for high voltage, if you don't have experience search tutorials on google for eg.)
For more accurate readings the dpos2512g is better, the same eg I gave above display 230V RMS
On the Zeeweei you are able to manually calibrate the scope. If we have the manual calibration on fnirsi it will be ok, but this way ... no way.
On the Zeeweei if you bought one with pcb rev. 9.xx you can use a custom firmware with some nice features including a web browser app that expand it's capabilities. Search this forum for the dpos2512g
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Thank you very much for the detailed answer! Zeeweei looks good, and most importantly it is cheaper! I looked at this manufacturer and they have another model combined with a multimeter DSO3D12, which is not much more expensive. Do you think its oscilloscope is not worse in accuracy than the DSO2512g?
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Thank you very much for the detailed answer! Zeeweei looks good, and most importantly it is cheaper! I looked at this manufacturer and they have another model combined with a multimeter DSO3D12, which is not much more expensive. Do you think its oscilloscope is not worse in accuracy than the DSO2512g?
if you can I would advise to test anything from this price range you are willing to get
for example if you put approx 1 Mhz sine to some fnirsi models the wave on screen is ...jumping...
Personally I went for HDS2202s as had a chance to try it against cheaper frnisi and yep it was more expensive but compared side by side with friends "toy" it was like totally different league.
it has some other compromises but it suited my needs to check things with battery powered scope.
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Thank you very much for the detailed answer! Zeeweei looks good, and most importantly it is cheaper! I looked at this manufacturer and they have another model combined with a multimeter DSO3D12, which is not much more expensive. Do you think its oscilloscope is not worse in accuracy than the DSO2512g?
DSO3D12 cannot export screenshots.
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Hello everyone,
Yesterday, due to low lighting and being distracted, I accidentally connected the probes in reverse and shorted the signal generator output of the DPOX180H to ground. When I realized it, about 30 seconds had passed — though I'm not completely sure.
When I checked, I didn’t notice any issues. Everything seems to be working normally. However, I’m not sure if a problem might emerge later. Even though it’s not a very reliable device, it does work in certain situations.
The signal generator is not a separate unit; it's generated by the same chip that controls the oscilloscope. A malfunction there could affect the entire device.
There is a 51-ohm resistor right before the signal generator output connector. There is also a 1-ohm resistor before the GND connector. The point connected to the 51-ohm resistor is marked with a yellow circle in the photo.
A DAC is built using resistors connected to pin 8 of the EF2L45LG144B chip, and its output is fed into an op-amp. This section is shown in the red area of the photo. The output of the op-amp is the same point marked with the yellow circle, which connects to the 51-ohm resistor.
There is also an NPN + PNP transistor pair connected to another pin of the chip, which is also tied to this same point. This part is marked with a blue circle.
Given this information, what could be the effects of such a short circuit? Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?
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Hello everyone,
Yesterday, due to low lighting and being distracted, I accidentally connected the probes in reverse and shorted the signal generator output of the DPOX180H to ground. When I realized it, about 30 seconds had passed — though I'm not completely sure.
When I checked, I didn’t notice any issues. Everything seems to be working normally. However, I’m not sure if a problem might emerge later. Even though it’s not a very reliable device, it does work in certain situations.
The signal generator is not a separate unit; it's generated by the same chip that controls the oscilloscope. A malfunction there could affect the entire device.
There is a 51-ohm resistor right before the signal generator output connector. There is also a 1-ohm resistor before the GND connector. The point connected to the 51-ohm resistor is marked with a yellow circle in the photo.
A DAC is built using resistors connected to pin 8 of the EF2L45LG144B chip, and its output is fed into an op-amp. This section is shown in the red area of the photo. The output of the op-amp is the same point marked with the yellow circle, which connects to the 51-ohm resistor.
There is also an NPN + PNP transistor pair connected to another pin of the chip, which is also tied to this same point. This part is marked with a blue circle.
Given this information, what could be the effects of such a short circuit? Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?
i ask the AI for you.
here is the answer:
"No, you cannot damage a typical signal generator by shorting its output. Most signal generators are designed to be able to handle short circuits without damage. They are built to continue functioning even when the output is shorted, as this is a common scenario during testing and debugging. "
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There is a 51-ohm resistor right before the signal generator output connector. There is also a 1-ohm resistor before the GND connector. The point connected to the 51-ohm resistor is marked with a yellow circle in the photo.
A DAC is built using resistors connected to pin 8 of the EF2L45LG144B chip, and its output is fed into an op-amp. This section is shown in the red area of the photo. The output of the op-amp is the same point marked with the yellow circle, which connects to the 51-ohm resistor.
There is also an NPN + PNP transistor pair connected to another pin of the chip, which is also tied to this same point. This part is marked with a blue circle.
Given this information, what could be the effects of such a short circuit? Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?
Based on this you can calculate the max short circuit current. It depends on the FPGA IO bank voltage, but probably set to 3.3V to get some decent range from the generator, and the amplification and supply voltage(s) of the opamp. Probably in the same range to give a 3.3V output signal. So 3.3V / 51 Ohm is about 65mA. Depends on the opamp used, but even in steady state it most likely won't kill it. The 1 Ohm resistor to ground reduces the current a bit more.
To say more about the transistor pair the markings are needed to determine the connections. It could be something like for an external trigger input, but with the two capacitors near the FPGA pin it probably is something else.
The same DAC setup is used in the 1014D scope of FNIRSI, but that one does not have the transistor pair. It is cheap, but it depends on the quality of the resistors and the FPGA outputs how linear and accurate it is.
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Hello everyone,
Yesterday, due to low lighting and being distracted, I accidentally connected the probes in reverse and shorted the signal generator output of the DPOX180H to ground. When I realized it, about 30 seconds had passed — though I'm not completely sure.
i ask the AI for you.
here is the answer:
"No, you cannot damage a typical signal generator by shorting its output. Most signal generators are designed to be able to handle short circuits without damage. They are built to continue functioning even when the output is shorted, as this is a common scenario during testing and debugging. "
Thanks, my friend.
Yes, this is how it should be with good devices. But as you know, this is the DPOX180H—we never know what might happen, so I opened it up to check. At the very least, I’m hoping nothing will happen to the chip.
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There is a 51-ohm resistor right before the signal generator output connector. There is also a 1-ohm resistor before the GND connector. The point connected to the 51-ohm resistor is marked with a yellow circle in the photo.
A DAC is built using resistors connected to pin 8 of the EF2L45LG144B chip, and its output is fed into an op-amp. This section is shown in the red area of the photo. The output of the op-amp is the same point marked with the yellow circle, which connects to the 51-ohm resistor.
There is also an NPN + PNP transistor pair connected to another pin of the chip, which is also tied to this same point. This part is marked with a blue circle.
Given this information, what could be the effects of such a short circuit? Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?
Based on this you can calculate the max short circuit current. It depends on the FPGA IO bank voltage, but probably set to 3.3V to get some decent range from the generator, and the amplification and supply voltage(s) of the opamp. Probably in the same range to give a 3.3V output signal. So 3.3V / 51 Ohm is about 65mA. Depends on the opamp used, but even in steady state it most likely won't kill it. The 1 Ohm resistor to ground reduces the current a bit more.
To say more about the transistor pair the markings are needed to determine the connections. It could be something like for an external trigger input, but with the two capacitors near the FPGA pin it probably is something else.
The same DAC setup is used in the 1014D scope of FNIRSI, but that one does not have the transistor pair. It is cheap, but it depends on the quality of the resistors and the FPGA outputs how linear and accurate it is.
Thank you for your response.
The op-amp at the DAC output delivers a maximum of 150mA. As for the other section—the one in the blue block—here’s the situation: the PNP transistor closer to the chip can handle up to 1.5A, and the following NPN transistor has a maximum of 50mA.
The pin from this section that’s connected to the chip has 2.9V on its VCC_AUX output.
At first, I thought these components might withstand short-circuit current and provide the required current, which would result in the chip drawing excessive current and getting damaged.
But then I saw that there’s no sink current flowing into the chip from the blue block. It’s also not possible to draw excessive source current from there either, because of the transistors. In the other block, there are also extra resistors and the op-amp. Current can’t be drawn from the DAC either. So in summary, the chip is not in danger. If something goes wrong, it would happen with the components in front of it. And they can be replaced. But for now, there doesn’t seem to be any issue.
In such cases, the real danger is when semiconductors fail in a shorted state. Then, they can damage the ICs they’re connected to. Hopefully, I haven’t missed anything.
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Hello everyone!
Has anyone encountered such a strange interference from the built-in generator?
https://youtube.com/shorts/oICNsRBnTvY?si=DDFJz_0w5c_Uztjh (https://youtube.com/shorts/oICNsRBnTvY?si=DDFJz_0w5c_Uztjh)
It appears after about 30 minutes of generator operation. Only on the second channel in dual-channel mode. Or on any of the channels in single-channel mode. If you turn off the generator and watch the external signal, the interference disappears.
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I read thru all these posts only to learn about the unresolved issues of this oscilloscope.
More than two years of customers reports on bugs and design issues to have just three firmware updates, where the last one dates from Sept-2023, and basically almost all the serious issues were never fixed. This is now Aug-2025.
Advertising a product based on their 180MHz bandwidth and high sensitivity of 5mV at such a low price is a clever honey pot.
I have the Fnirsi LCR-P1 multitester.
It is buggy when testing NPN transistors.
This issue has been reported to them since long time ago and they released two firmware updates after that.
Unfortunately the issue was never fixed and, like this oscilloscope, they stop maintaining it (no more updates), despite keep selling the product.
As it is, I am not buying Fnirsi products anymore, no matter how sweet is the honey pot.
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A post from another thread from a person who says he developed it:
"DPOX180H does have some problems. Why haven't I updated it? Because the sales
are too terrible. The dealers sell it at a very high price. A handheld oscilloscope can't
survive at this price. So I have given up on DPOX180H and haven't produced it for
nearly a year."
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-going-to-make-a-very-low-priced-1ghz-oscilloscope/msg5889030/#msg5889030 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hello-everyone-i-am-going-to-make-a-very-low-priced-1ghz-oscilloscope/msg5889030/#msg5889030)
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I recently finally got around to disassembling my oscilloscope and noticed something curious: the circuits (I understand these are ADCs) where FNIRSI usually laser-erases the markings, but mine weren't. Perhaps this will be helpful to someone—here's a photo.
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I recently finally got around to disassembling my oscilloscope and noticed something curious: the circuits (I understand these are ADCs) where FNIRSI usually laser-erases the markings, but mine weren't. Perhaps this will be helpful to someone—here's a photo.
🙏🙏🙏
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What's more curious is how FNIRSI managed to overclock this ADC to 250 MSPS, considering that according to the datasheet, its maximum is 100 MSPS. (By the way, its bandwidth is 475, not 500.)
https://datasheet4u.com/pdf-down/M/X/T/MXT2088-MXTronics.pdf
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It contains MXT2088 2 channels, the clk for the second channel is shifted by 90 degrees. So you have 2*100Msa, so they actually overclocked from 100Mhz to 125Mhz
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I was thinking of buying a dpox180h, but it seems to be a very poor product to use, as it only has a nice "look," but its technical functionalities are quite compromised.
Is that correct?
If I replace the AC capacitors as mentioned here, will there be a significant improvement to justify the minimum and make it "usable"?
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Not
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If I replace the AC capacitors as mentioned here, will there be a significant improvement to justify the minimum and make it "usable"?
For get about relacing the input coupling capacitor. All scopes show this phenomenal with low frequency square waves which are AC coupled , the Fnirsi shows this at 1kh/z were other scopes show it at 100h/z.
Its all a storm in a tea cup.
I've been using one of these little scope for nearly three years now and and they are a great little scope so good in fact that i bought a second one.
Mike.