EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Imran333 on August 02, 2019, 01:45:27 am
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Hi I bought a trinocular microscope from china and it’s simul focal and has continuous zoom feature, but the problem I have is, when I look through the eye pieces lens, the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat, it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle even though it’s lying flat in pcb holder, I’ve tried adjusting the stand and microscope in every way possible but still same problem, I don’t know why it’s like that and the camera image doesn’t match what i see through the lens bcuz through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera, I don’t know why the pcb board doesn’t look flat and I don’t know why the image is so small through the camera?
Hope someone can help me
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Hi I bought a trinocular microscope from china and it’s simul focal and has continuous zoom feature, but the problem I have is, when I look through the eye pieces lens, the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat, it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle even though it’s lying flat in pcb holder, I’ve tried adjusting the stand and microscope in every way possible but still same problem, I don’t know why it’s like that and the camera image doesn’t match what i see through the lens bcuz through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera, I don’t know why the pcb board doesn’t look flat and I don’t know why the image is so small through the camera?
Hope someone can help me
Not really sure what you mean exactly. When you say "it’s as if the pcb is lying upwards at 180 degrees angle", does that mean 0 degrees is up and 180 degrees is down - so you are looking at the edge of the pcb? I doubt you mean that. Do you mean it has rotated horizontally 180 degrees? If it is that can you rotate the camera in its socket 180 degrees so it displays the image the right way up?
Anyway I don't have a trinocular microscope but I have a similar stereo one. Does this manual for both microscopes match your microscope? It might have a different name but most of them are similar:
http://www.shoppal.com.my/download/7-45Xmicro.pdf (http://www.shoppal.com.my/download/7-45Xmicro.pdf)
It seems to switch between eyepiece view and camera/video view you have to operate a control. see page 8 section 4.9. Maybe that is all you need to do.
There is other information there on how to set up the rest of the microscope.
One other important thing (not related to your query) is setting up the eyepieces so that the zoom stays in focus for the whole range. It is called "Microscope Parfocal Adjustment". It is not in the above instructions. When you first assemble the microscope it probably won't stay in focus for the whole zoom range which is a little annoying, so this fixes that.
Various techniques:
https://www.aventools.com/how-to-parfocal-your-stereo-zoom-microscope/ (https://www.aventools.com/how-to-parfocal-your-stereo-zoom-microscope/)
http://www.endoexperience.com/filecabinet/Clinical%20Endodontics/Surgical%20Operating%20Microscopes/Parfocal%20Adjustment.pdf (http://www.endoexperience.com/filecabinet/Clinical%20Endodontics/Surgical%20Operating%20Microscopes/Parfocal%20Adjustment.pdf)
http://www.visioneng.us/resources/articles/how-to-correctly-setup-and-focus-a-stereo-microscope (http://www.visioneng.us/resources/articles/how-to-correctly-setup-and-focus-a-stereo-microscope)
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When I look through the eyepieces it's as if the pcb board is not lying flat as if once side of the pcb board is raised and other side is flat, like a hill that goes uphill, I don't understand why the pcb board doesn't look flat and level through the eyepieces, and my manual is different
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Ah ok - so nothing to do with 180 degrees then. Is it maybe tilted slightly, like 7 to 15 degrees rather than 180 degrees? Might be something to do with this:
https://www.lmscope.com/en/Stereomikroskope_in_der_Fotodokumendation_en.html (https://www.lmscope.com/en/Stereomikroskope_in_der_Fotodokumendation_en.html)
Though I would think each eye would see it tilt in the opposite direction? Is this what you get, or are both eyepiece views tilted the same way?
Do you get the same effect when you are not using a barlow lens? I don't have any barlow lenses for my stereo microscope, and when I look at flat horizontal things at any zoom range they look pretty flat and undistorted to me and in focus across the whole view for both eyes (though the view for each eye is slightly different as it is stereo). I am using 10X eyepieces and have 0.7x - 4.5x zoom control (for 7x to 45x magnification).
When I look at the objective lens area of my microscope (bottom of the microscope head) I see two small lenses at slightly different angles so I expect it is using Greenough principle (from the link above).
Perhaps the control to change between eyepiece view and camera view (that I mentioned in the previous post) is not fully clicked into place so the image for one eyepiece view shows as tilted?
I suggest you go through both manuals and also the other URLs I suggested and check that your microscope is properly set up. It could also be worth doing further research on general stereo microscope set up to make sure you have set it up correctly. There are lots of free resources available online for this.
If you are still having issues after this, then perhaps your microscope optics are not aligned properly and needs servicing, or replacement of the microscope.
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Both eye pieces the view is the same but I'll try everything you said and get back, but I've tried every adjustment knob but still same problem and it's same problem no matter what lens I try, the pcb is probably not 180 degrees but it seems the pcb is not lying flat and is sloped at maybe 90 degree angle, but I'll try your advice and get back if it works
I’ve added a picture of what angle the pcb board looks like when I look through the eye pieces even though it’s lying flat
I've also added a picture of the microscope
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I've tried everything but no look, here's a picture from another buyer of the microscope and this is picture is from the camera and what I see through the lens looks similar but it is hard to tell in pictures but the pcb board doesn't look flat and level
Could it be bcuz the eye pieces are not vertically down and are at a 45 degree angle?
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... Could it be bcuz the eye pieces are not vertically down and are at a 45 degree angle?
No that should not be it unless the microscope maker did something really crazy.
I can see some "keystone" distortion that is making the BGA package look trapezoidal. Is that the issue your are seeing? If it is, try tilting the specimen to the left or right and see if that makes things look square. That is a common issue and fix for Greenough design microscopes.
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... through the lens I can see a lot more of the pcb board but through the camera I only see a very small proportion of the pcb, I have 0.5x Barlow lens and 2x lens and 1/2 ctv lens for camera....
Probably the image coming out of the photo port is much larger than the camera's image sensor. You can address that by sticking a reduction lens between the camera and photo port or – even better, if you can do it – substituting a camera with a much larger image sensor that matches the image out of the photo port, both its size and focal distance. Making a camera agreeably compatible with a microscope can take some effort, and not all vendors go to the trouble.
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When I look through the eyepieces it's as if the pcb board is not lying flat as if once side of the pcb board is raised and other side is flat, like a hill that goes uphill, I don't understand why the pcb board doesn't look flat and level through the eyepieces, and my manual is different
i think something is misaligned inside the microscope, the reflecting mirror maybe got bumped during shipment? about the camera showing smaller postion, maybe it has different lenses that make it not equal to eye viewing lenses (not Single Lens Reflex)
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The main problem is when I look at the pcb board through the eye pieces it looks like it's not lying flat even though it's lying flat, it just looks like the pcb is sloped upwards, I just can't figure it out even though I've tried every adjustment possible
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Did you try tilting the entire microscope head forwards/backwards to compensate? It looks like you stand is adjustable for tilt in all axes.
FWIW, I never look straight down. I much prefer to tilt the head to see at a bit of an angle from completely perpendicular.
Addendum: Your idea of 90 degrees seems to be different from the rest of the world. Let alone 180 degrees, lol. The latter would be a microscope that views the back side of the board like X ray vision?
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A)
Does to microscope have a lever to turn the camera port on or off?
Some will have a hard mirror or prism that will sent all the light to either but not both. Some others will have a half mirror that spit the light 50/50 allowing you to use the oculars and camera at the same time (although the focus might not be exactly the same untile the camera is adjusted).
In that case as you swing the lever you will see the image rotate as you complete the arc. There should be an adjustable stop for the mirror inside that needs adjustment or something is blocking its travel. You might not notice it if the image is much larger than your camera sensitive area.. smaller will make it obvious
Remove the camera an use you eye in place of the camera at about 20cm to look at the vignetting while moving the lever.
B)
If the camera is a true binocular (not just the eyepieces splitting a single image) and has two independent optical path when the trinocular camera port is activated only one image is sent to the port. However, if you can use the oculars and the camera simultaneously a path compensation also has to be inserted in the untapped optical path. If these two prism are not aligned a rotation can appear between on channel vs the other at the oculars.
C)
If the camera path is on all the time you might have an image at the camera that is off line or way too big (intensity will be low also). A compensation lens between the camera is needed. Else there is a serious misalignment inside (anything jiggling in there?)
In either cases when using the oculars to look at a sample no rotation of the image should be apparent. Sounds like something is really wrong here. (Never saw that in the many microscopes I used or owned)
Small image in the camera. Have you tried removing the barlow and doing a direct projection on the CCD?
Hopefully you got it from a reputable seller since that should be covered under warranty.
Best of luck with it.
Edit: just had a thought. You say "the pcb board I’m looking at is as if it’s not lying flat even though it is flat" Do you mean the focus for a sharp image is different on one ocular vs the other (as in left vs right eye)?
If that is the case:
A)
Usually there is a diopter compensation on the left eye that needs to be adjusted to the user (usually by rotating the eyepiece). In that case it would look as if the sample was not laying flat on the bed and tilting it would compensate.
B)
Camera compensation path as mentioned in B) above is out of adjustment.
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The camera is always on at the same time as the lens, there's no level and even without Barlow lens the image seems tilted upwards, the camera image doesn't seem as badly tilted as through the eye pieces, I've bought a 1/2ctv lens which has improved the image as the image before was small but now it's bigger but the problem I have now i can't focus the camera and eye pieces at the same time, if one is focused then the other isn't and through the eye pieces it looks like the pcb board is not lying flat , the bottom end looks flat and the top end of pcb looks raised at 90 degree angle, and if I tilt microscope then only way to make it look flat is if I tilt microscope at a crazy angle which makes it unusable
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I have a hard time understanding what you mean to describe. Can you not stick the camera into one of the eyepiece sockets (without the okular) and show a screenshot of that picture so that one understands what you're seeing?
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Protractor to show angles so we can all be talking about the same thing.
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I'm confused with this as the image on the monitor in your picture looks correct :-//
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I don't have the correct adaptor to put camera in eye pieces hole and it seems the pcb board is lying at 120 degree angle even though it's lying flat, I've included picture from the camera but it looks ok through the camera compared to eye pieces, I've also added a picture of my phone showing roughly what angle the pcb looks like through the eye pieces
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I'd like to see a photo (or two) taken from different angles of your setup, showing the microscope and the board.
I'm interested in all the angles of things.
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Sadly it sounds like one of the optical parts on one side has moved in shipping.
I've seen optical issue before when people get microscopes delivered using EMS shipping.
EMS handling is quite rough.
There's a reason why the more popular microscope shops on aliexpress only offer DHL shipping for microscopes.
If the problem is some optics that have come unglued then it's probably quite fixable.
Just need to find/watch some disassembly videos, get some gloves and carefully take it apart to find the part that has moved.
Given that only 1 side has the issue it shouldn't be too hard to see the problem because you can compared it to the other good side.
But i wouldn't do this until you have talked to the company you bought it from.
I have found china sellers respond better when you give them photo or video evidence of an issue.
It shows them you actually do have an issue and are not trying to trick them.
Can you record a video on your phone holding it up to each eye pieces in a way that makes the problem visible.
For a easy non-destructive first check you could lift out the two eye pieces and look into each side with a flashlight.
See if you can notice anything different between each side.
Note that trinocular microscopes have 3 sets of optics, so an issue is likely only on 1 of the 3 optical paths.
Also, if you want to see more width in the camera view you will need to buy a x0.5 lens for the camera stalk.
You can go all the way to x0.3 for even more view but you will see black at the 4 corners.
0.5 is pretty common. For mine the lens is a "SZMC TV 1/2" but i dunno if that will fit your one
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Sadly it sounds like one of the optical parts on one side has moved in shipping.
I've seen optical issue before when people get microscopes delivered using EMS shipping.
EMS handling is quite rough.
it depends on the luck or unluck, not necessarily related to brand service imho. see video... Fedex is a reputable name but if your item got unlucky handled by some moron, then you get what you get. this type of worker deserve a place in trash recycling facilities. btw, i pointed out the possibility of optics misalignment during shipping earlier but the OP keep running around the room in panic while asking and answering questions. just maybe it seems he is unable to do whats beyond the operating manual. ymmv.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUDTPbDhnA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUDTPbDhnA)
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yeah, but Fedex/DHL/UPS are occasional bad.
EMS china is almost always bad.
Don't get me wrong, i use EMS china quite a bit, i just wouldn't ship anything made of glass using them.
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EMS china is almost always bad.
i can say 90-99% of items i received through EMS (China) arrived in good shape (one arrived today UT210E with no bubble wrapping as usually seller's did). only maybe 1-10% got some dent on exterior, but i never got up to a disfunctional item. i dont backup EMS, but yes this thing is possible, even on brand name courier. this can be courier's (EMS) fault, or the manufacturer's fault for designing inadequate strengh product. few months ago i bought heavily used Dynascope from USA by Ebay Global Shipping, the seller did warn me about the risk of broken glass due to the distance the item has to travel and asked me to cancel order, i told him i will take the risk so he did send and the item arrived with no broken glass nor bumped bits. if it arrived in broken state then i have to accept the truth but i guess i was lucky.
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Most items can be kicked around or dropped in their box and get no damage.
A microscope on the other hand cannot.
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I will check and get back and I do have Barlow lens for scope and szmc tv 1/2 but the problem is I can't get the camera and eye pieces to focus at the same time and both eye pieces the pcb board looks the same through each eye piece
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I'd like to see a photo (or two) taken from different angles of your setup, showing the microscope and the board.
I'm interested in all the angles of things.
I will post pictures of setup and maybe take the microscope apart a and see if anything looks out of line
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I will check and get back and I do have Barlow lens for scope and scmc tv 1/2 but the problem is I can't get the camera and eye pieces to focus at the same time
Your microscope has 4 adjustments for focus.
- Rotating left eye piece focus ring
- Rotating right eye piece focus ring
- Rotating the main focus knob
- Rotating the SCMC TV 1/2 camera adapter focus ring.
Use this process to set up all the focus adjustments.
1. Zoom all the way in
2. Rotate the two eye pieces focus rings to be around 50% position i.e. find their min/max and set them to approximately center position.
3. Look into the microscope and adjust the main focus knob so the right eye comes into focus on something under the microscope.
4. Look into the microscope and check the left eye, if this is out of focus leave the main focus knob alone and adjust the focus ring on the left eye to fix it. Both eyes should now be in focus
5. Now look into the microscope and confirm you can zoom all the way out and all the way in and everything stays in focus.
If you cannot do this, try rotating left and right eye pieces focus rings together by an amount and then moving the main focus knob the other way to compensate.
There should be a spot where, if you focus while zoomed-in you can then zoom out and still be in focus.
(Note it doesn't always work the other way around. If zoomed out and then you zoom in it wont always be in-focus. The reason for this is simple but would take 2 paragraphs to fully explain)
6. Now look at the image from the camera, rotate the focus adjustment ring on the 'SCMC TV 1/2' adapter so the camera image is in focus.
Note, you may have to unscrew the locking shaft and/or the locking screw on it a little so it will rotate.
Now you should be all good.
Of course, if you have an issue in the optics the above isn't going to work.
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Here's pictures of setup and inside microscope
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More pics
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Did you find any loose optics?
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i will suspect more on reflecting prism/lens, since i dont think objectives and eyepiece can give distorted image when looking straight down on perpendicular plane.. wiggling the prisms to see if some of them is loose. Or make re alignment yourself to get better image. those retaining screws seem not designed properly. But if you think its difficult you may put them back together again and send back for warranty refund or replacement.
edit: i think there are more reflectors you havent explored inside objective compartment.
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I have almost the exact same microscope with the same camera adapter. And the image quality is not good, just like you observed. I have eliminted the camera to be the problem, because it works well with a nikon lens:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-trinocular-microscope-image-not-level/?action=dlattach;attach=805830)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-trinocular-microscope-image-not-level/?action=dlattach;attach=805836)
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So that leaves only the camera adapter and the microscope itself. I think it's the microscope internal optics. Attached are two example images. As can be seen, the center is fine, but the further you go away from the center, the more the image becomes fuzzy (not blurry, just fuzzy).
I asked the Chinese company in aliexpress that sold me this, and they just said "this is normal" ;D So what are you going to do? Ship it back with huge expense, just to receive another one that has the same problem? I won't bother. Instead, I'm looking into making a stereo microscope using two rod microscope with two cameras. What I need to find are display glasses where each of the two displays has a separate HDMI input.
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the OP problem is not fuzzy/poor/cheap lens which can be fixed with changing focus or replace with more quality lens, but distorted/tilted rectangle through eyepiece. I consider the out of focus camera as small problem can be fixed by changing distance of camera sensor from lenses. The distortion he tried to mimick on some pictures earlier is the peculiar one.
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So that leaves only the camera adapter and the microscope itself. I think it's the microscope internal optics. Attached are two example images. As can be seen, the center is fine, but the further you go away from the center, the more the image becomes fuzzy (not blurry, just fuzzy).
I asked the Chinese company in aliexpress that sold me this, and they just said "this is normal"....
I am not sure I understand the use of fuzzy rather than blurry. The entire images are not sharp to me, considering the low magnification, and just get worse towards the edges. Strictly speaking, only the inner 60% of the field of view need be very flat and sharp, for a simple achromat objective. Even so, a quality "routine" microscope should be much sharper than that, and still be fairly sharp toward the edges.
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I am not sure I understand the use of fuzzy rather than blurry. The entire images are not sharp to me, considering the low magnification, and just get worse towards the edges. Strictly speaking, only the inner 60% of the field of view need be very flat and sharp, for a simple achromat objective. Even so, a quality "routine" microscope should be much sharper than that, and still be fairly sharp toward the edges.
I'm talking about image out of focus when I say blurry. The image problems at the edges are not focus related. The image is just "smeared". Maybe the prisms, or mirrors, or whatever is in the microscope body, have a film of dust on them.
The image quality isn't as good as when you look at the card using the eyepieces, and I'm not sure that would be the expectation when you grab the image using the camera port. But in any case, to me, the center of both images are acceptable in quality. going to the edges the image gets progressively crappy.
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... The image problems at the edges are not focus related. The image is just "smeared". Maybe the prisms, or mirrors, or whatever is in the microscope body, have a film of dust on them....
Usually dirty prisms largely reduce the brightness and contrast. I have a photo tube adapter (essential half the top half of the OP's microscope) with a dirty entry lens and prism, that a fellow with a Wild M8 used for many years, and never noticed anything wrong. I noticed some loss of contrast, the field of view was shifted about 10% with respect to the view in the eyepieces, and, curiously, the resolution was more than halved as you approached the edge of the FOV toward 2 or 8 o'clock. Well, someone had replaced the prism, many years ago – and left it slightly skewed and somewhat dusted with what may be old metal bits and epoxy.
My wild guess from a great distance is the OP's scope has an alignment issue.
EDIT: Attached a picture of the replaced prism.
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So that leaves only the camera adapter and the microscope itself. I think it's the microscope internal optics. Attached are two example images. As can be seen, the center is fine, but the further you go away from the center, the more the image becomes fuzzy (not blurry, just fuzzy).
I've heard of others that have that issue.
It sounds like you got the newer version. I'm not entirely sure what exactly the difference is, but the newer versions seem to have issues where the center is sharp but edges are blured.
Louis Rossmann has been complaining about this issue for a while and sourced the old version to sell from his store.
See video below...
Some people say the issue is the adapter that goes between the microscope and camera. I'm not sure if that's the full story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q84HoZBM7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q84HoZBM7E)
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I'm talking about image out of focus when I say blurry. The image problems at the edges are not focus related. The image is just "smeared". Maybe the prisms, or mirrors, or whatever is in the microscope body, have a film of dust on them.
not dust, but it just physics, its called Petzval Curvature(1) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petzval_field_curvature), Petzval Curvature (2) (https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/curvatureoffield). where in order to get sharp edge to edge image, you need to buy curved image sensor which i dont think exist in consumer market, except the given free two unit inside our eyeballs (retina). another workaround is to use larger lens elements so to increase the radius of this curvature to achieve near flat focus plan on the flat sensor, reducing the edge-blurry effect, this is the reason why larger more more expensive lenses sold out.
Louis Rossmann has been complaining about this issue for a while and sourced the old version to sell from his store.
See video below...
its another type of lens design/material defect known in cheap optics.. Astigmatism or Abberation (https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/knowhow/knowhow15.html)
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I've heard of others that have that issue.
It sounds like you got the newer version. I'm not entirely sure what exactly the difference is, but the newer versions seem to have issues where the center is sharp but edges are blured.
Louis Rossmann has been complaining about this issue for a while and sourced the old version to sell from his store.
See video below...
Some people say the issue is the adapter that goes between the microscope and camera. I'm not sure if that's the full story.
My camera adapter is actually similar to what Rossman is using. The quality of the other one is indeed very bad. Mine isn't THAT bad. So I guess maybe I have to change my expectation and this is what I will ever get out of this :-//
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not dust, but it just physics, its called Petzval Curvature(1) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petzval_field_curvature), Petzval Curvature (2) (https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/curvatureoffield). where in order to get sharp edge to edge image, you need to buy curved image sensor which i dont think exist in consumer market, except the given free two unit inside our eyeballs (retina). another workaround is to use larger lens elements so to increase the radius of this curvature to achieve near flat focus plan on the flat sensor, reducing the edge-blurry effect, this is the reason why larger more more expensive lenses sold out.
I was considering to dismantle the microscope body and clean the mirrors and what not, but not having a dust hood, I was putting it off. If it isn't a big deal to have a small amount of dust on the optics, maybe I should open the thing and clean it. I have very clean compressed air available, so I can really keep the dust quite low.
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Have you guys ever seen display glasses with separate HDMI's for each eye? This is something that I'm searching for on the Internet, but no luck so far. One reason is the difficultly in coming up with effective search terms. All I get is normal opthalmology glasses, or dam VR things for gamers ...
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I was considering to dismantle the microscope body and clean the mirrors and what not, but not having a dust hood, I was putting it off. If it isn't a big deal to have a small amount of dust on the optics....
You could do that (I am a fan of the Giottos Rocket Blaster), but I bet it won't make much of a difference. I have attached a picture showing the debris on the front of the front lens of the above photo adapter. There is more junk on the other side, and on the prism. As I wrote, the previous owner – with a high-end, plan objective stereo microscope – did not even notice.
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I have the same problem.
These were taken with a Panasonic G9 Micro 4/3 camera body straight onto the camera port without any lenses. It's definitely in focus in the centre, I provide links to the 80Mpx jpeg for the pixel peepers.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/amscope-3-5x-45x-trinocular-zoom-microscope-with-double-arm-boom-stand/msg2298618/#msg2298618 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/amscope-3-5x-45x-trinocular-zoom-microscope-with-double-arm-boom-stand/msg2298618/#msg2298618)
As far as I am aware, that's just the way it is.
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Yeah, I am starting to think that we should give up trying to solve issues with low cost Chinese microscopes, and just accept that they are what they are.
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Several years ago I spent an amount not too much more than one of the mentioned microscopes would have cost, on a decent condition second hand Wild Heerbrugg M3. I never ever felt regretful for that spending and enjoy every single time I'm using it. I've worked with several different stereo microscopes but there's simply no comparison. No separate camera adapter of course, but an ocular camera in one of the sockets works just fine.
I know it's easily said but in some situations, it's just worth buying the "real thing" instead of spending a little less on an inadequate replacement.
P.S. I don't only relate this to the mentioned brand, any of the "big players" will probably provide as good quality.
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RE the original posters pictures, I notice the threaded mount on what I think is the right eyepiece appears to be broken. I don't know if that's the source of the problems he's seeing, but it's an indicator that the eyepiece may have taken a blow at some point.
0 degrees = board is lying flat.
90 degrees = you're literally viewing the board edge-on.
180 degrees = you're impossibly seeing the other side of the board, lying flat.
360 degrees = 0 degrees, since that's the number of degrees in a circle.
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I have a similar AM-Scope except to give access to the camera I have to pull a slide lever out which blocks one of the eye pieces.
It's worked flawlessly for several years unit I dropped it off the bench recently. Nothing is cracked or visually broken however I now see double when looking through the scope with both eyes.
All of the prisms, mirrors etc inside have grub screws to hold them in place and presumably for adjusting their position but they are all glued in place.
I rang an optics place in Sydney that repairs and calibrates scopes and they tell me without the manufacturers special rigs, realigning them is next to impossible.
It appears the only fix is to purchase a replacement head
The problem the OP is having is certainly a strange one in that it appears to be an optical distortion rather than an alignment issue as any misalignment should result in the two optical paths not converging on the same spot
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Did you find any loose optics?
nothing seemed loose
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RE the original posters pictures, I notice the threaded mount on what I think is the right eyepiece appears to be broken. I don't know if that's the source of the problems he's seeing, but it's an indicator that the eyepiece may have taken a blow at some point.
0 degrees = board is lying flat.
90 degrees = you're literally viewing the board edge-on.
180 degrees = you're impossibly seeing the other side of the board, lying flat.
360 degrees = 0 degrees, since that's the number of degrees in a circle.
on one side the eye piece thread is broken but there was no broken piece inside so I'm presuming it left the factory like that but I don't think that's causing the problem bcuz that's just the thread for the eye piece and it screws in perfectly still and if that was the problem then only one eye piece should be affected, I have contacted seller but seller on aliexpress is just messing me around but the broken thread is not causing the problem but it's something else maybe I need to take it apart a bit more and look deeper inside bcuz maybe I never took everything apart
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Several years ago I spent an amount ... on a decent condition second hand Wild Heerbrugg M3. I never ever felt regretful for that spending and enjoy every single time I'm using it....
Some people don't like the original M3 because it has a bit of dome distortion, but I find it charming: it makes raised relief, a bit more so. (Could you correct that in Photoshop?) But, good grief, the image out of that microscope is bright, and it easy to see why. If you flip it to 16X (mid power), remove the head and peer down, you are staring directly at the objective. I am fixing up an M3 to give to a friend, and I don't think he will be unhappy with it. I think the best thing about the old Wilds is that they are extremely well made. Should you ever need to sell one, you can probably get back what you paid for it.
EDIT: I should add that if anyone is thinking of buying an old Wild stereo microscope: I would avoid the really old ones with yellowish housings, unless you are sure they have been well maintained.
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I've solved the problem where I couldn't focus the camera with 1/2 szmctv lens at the same time as the ey pieces with 0.5x Barlow the lens, the way I done it was by increasing the distance between The camera and the 1/2 szmctv lens by adding a 5mm c-cs mount lens adapter ring extension which I've included a picture of but I still can't solve why through the eye pieces whatever I'm viewing doesn't look flat and level even though the pcb board I'm viewing is flat and level
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I will check and get back and I do have Barlow lens for scope and scmc tv 1/2 but the problem is I can't get the camera and eye pieces to focus at the same time
Your microscope has 4 adjustments for focus.
- Rotating left eye piece focus ring
- Rotating right eye piece focus ring
- Rotating the main focus knob
- Rotating the SCMC TV 1/2 camera adapter focus ring.
Use this process to set up all the focus adjustments.
1. Zoom all the way in
2. Rotate the two eye pieces focus rings to be around 50% position i.e. find their min/max and set them to approximately center position.
3. Look into the microscope and adjust the main focus knob so the right eye comes into focus on something under the microscope.
4. Look into the microscope and check the left eye, if this is out of focus leave the main focus knob alone and adjust the focus ring on the left eye to fix it. Both eyes should now be in focus
5. Now look into the microscope and confirm you can zoom all the way out and all the way in and everything stays in focus.
If you cannot do this, try rotating left and right eye pieces focus rings together by an amount and then moving the main focus knob the other way to compensate.
There should be a spot where, if you focus while zoomed-in you can then zoom out and still be in focus.
(Note it doesn't always work the other way around. If zoomed out and then you zoom in it wont always be in-focus. The reason for this is simple but would take 2 paragraphs to fully explain)
6. Now look at the image from the camera, rotate the focus adjustment ring on the 'SCMC TV 1/2' adapter so the camera image is in focus.
Note, you may have to unscrew the locking shaft and/or the locking screw on it a little so it will rotate.
Now you should be all good.
Of course, if you have an issue in the optics the above isn't going to work.
I had to add a 5mm cs mount extension ring to able to focus camera at same time as eye piece when using szmctv 1/2 and 0.5x Barlow , everything is in focus now and stats in focus when I zoom and without the 5mm cs mount extension it was impossible to focus camera with the 1/2 szmctv lens and I've included picture of the adapter but still through the eye pieces the pcb board doesn't look flat and level
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It might be helpful to see some of the actual not flat and level. Could you take a picture of the view through an eyepiece?
You can use a camera with a shallow lens and a small image sensor, a cellphone's will probably do, and hold it above the eyepiece. If you hold it perpendicular, centered and near, then slowly pull it away, you will see a bright spot as the projected image enters the camera's focal plane, that quickly dims a bit as the camera adjusts the exposure. If you move the camera away and toward the eyepiece, you should be able to see the eyepiece's full field of view, side to side(*). Try for somewhat dimmed with a sharp circular edge. Then you gently take an exposure, trying not to twist or move the camera. I can lightly press against the eyepiece to steady my hand.
It takes a little practice and a few tries, but it can be handy skill.
I have attached a picture I just took through the eyepiece of an American Optical 40, student microscope, with an old 2 megapixel Sony U30 camera (http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/sony/dsc-u30/sony-dsc-u30-review.html). (It is a good camera, but a more challenging microscope, for this.) It is the best of eight, from two sets of four. The first set did not have enough light; the second are a little rotated because the sun was washing out the old technology view screen.
(*) EDIT: You may get some cropping (letter boxing) at the top and bottom. Try to make it equal which will help align the camera over the eyepiece. [I need to get some more sleep.]
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I have two questions about this:
1) Is there any major hurdle to using an autofocusing camera with a simulfocus trinocular setup? As far as I understand, I will need to get a coarse focus with the knob on the trinocular head, and then the camera will continuously autofocus afterwards? But is this setup going to be wasted because the lens configuration is so vastly different?
2) Has anyone done polarized light and a polarizing filter? Can't you use this technique to view different colored text and look at different portions of reflections?
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Ah - I suggest people don't try and highjack and pollute this thread asking questions irrelevant to the original poster - can't you start your own thread technogeeky?
Anyway, getting back to the original posters issues:
For the big problem of the tilted images seen through both eyepieces but not the camera, lets try a process of elimination.
- I would think that the optics common to all three view ports (bottom optics / objective) are ok, since the camera view is not tilted.
- Also since both eyepiece views have the same issue, whatever optics are unique to both eyepiece views (the removable eyepieces themselves and perhaps their individual nearby optics) "might" be ok.
- So that leaves the problem being optics that are common to both eyepieces, but not used by the camera view - so somewhere in the middle before (above) where the camera connects.
I think that makes sense anyway. Not that it is much help as I have no idea how to fix that. Like others have suggested, I think it is probably some prism assembly that is not aligned properly - maybe in the middle.
Perhaps you could also ask about this on a dedicated microscope forum. They are more likely to have someone experienced in repairing microscopes I would think. Anyone know of any microscope dedicated forums?
This list might help https://microscope-microscope.org/microscope-resources/microscope-forums/
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You could use in-camera focus stacking if you could find a physically and optically compatible camera and lens
As this particular microscope stands, a micro four-thirds gives close to perfect coverage without vignetting, attaching the body directly to the port without any optics. You need a lens to enable the focus stacking.
Even if you could find a camera as outlined, the camera firmware might not like it.
Might be worth a try I guess, but the mounting would be tricky.
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Guys, here is one thing I have noticed with the szmctv 1/2 camera adapter. When you tighten the screw that prevents the camera from rotating, this very lightly tilts the camera away, which causes one side of the image to be more fuzzy than the other side! I have loosened that screw now and the camera now sits flush with the adapter and the image quality is noticeably better. The camera is not fixed the way it is now, but it doesn't spontaneously rotate either, unless you bump it. I think i'll keep the screw loosened to get the extra image quality benefit. This must be a manufacturing tolerance of this particular szmctv 1/2 adapter and might not be an issue with another specimen.
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Guys, here is one thing I have noticed with the szmctv 1/2 camera adapter. When you tighten the screw that prevents the camera from rotating, this very lightly tilts the camera away, which causes one side of the image to be more fuzzy than the other side! I have loosened that screw now and the camera now sits flush with the adapter and the image quality is noticeably better. The camera is not fixed the way it is now, but it doesn't spontaneously rotate either, unless you bump it. I think i'll keep the screw loosened to get the extra image quality benefit. This must be a manufacturing tolerance of this particular szmctv 1/2 adapter and might not be an issue with another specimen.
I'll try that and see if I get a better picture and was wondering what camera and microscope you use as I had to add a c mount 5mm extension otherwise I couldn't focus camera at the same time as eye piece when using szmctv 1/2 lens ?
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Guys, here is one thing I have noticed with the szmctv 1/2 camera adapter. When you tighten the screw that prevents the camera from rotating, this very lightly tilts the camera away, which causes one side of the image to be more fuzzy than the other side! I have loosened that screw now and the camera now sits flush with the adapter and the image quality is noticeably better. The camera is not fixed the way it is now, but it doesn't spontaneously rotate either, unless you bump it. I think i'll keep the screw loosened to get the extra image quality benefit. This must be a manufacturing tolerance of this particular szmctv 1/2 adapter and might not be an issue with another specimen.
I have noticed that myself, one tube is bigger than the other.
Maybe you can put some paper in between to shim it out to center.
EDIT: actually paper is probably a bad idea due to dust. Use plastic or tinfoil/alu foil
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It might be helpful to see some of the actual not flat and level. Could you take a picture of the view through an eyepiece?
You can use a camera with a shallow lens and a small image sensor, a cellphone's will probably do, and hold it above the eyepiece. If you hold it perpendicular, centered and near, then slowly pull it away, you will see a bright spot as the projected image enters the camera's focal plane, that quickly dims a bit as the camera adjusts the exposure. If you move the camera away and toward the eyepiece, you should be able to see the eyepiece's full field of view, side to side(*). Try for somewhat dimmed with a sharp circular edge. Then you gently take an exposure, trying not to twist or move the camera. I can lightly press against the eyepiece to steady my hand.
It takes a little practice and a few tries, but it can be handy skill.
I have attached a picture I just took through the eyepiece of an American Optical 40, student microscope, with an old 2 megapixel Sony U30 camera (http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/sony/dsc-u30/sony-dsc-u30-review.html). (It is a good camera, but a more challenging microscope, for this.) It is the best of eight, from two sets of four. The first set did not have enough light; the second are a little rotated because the sun was washing out the old technology view screen.
(*) EDIT: You may get some cropping (letter boxing) at the top and bottom. Try to make it equal which will help align the camera over the eyepiece. [I need to get some more sleep.]
I'll try and take a picture and get back
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It might be helpful to see some of the actual not flat and level. Could you take a picture of the view through an eyepiece?
You can use a camera with a shallow lens and a small image sensor, a cellphone's will probably do, and hold it above the eyepiece. If you hold it perpendicular, centered and near, then slowly pull it away, you will see a bright spot as the projected image enters the camera's focal plane, that quickly dims a bit as the camera adjusts the exposure. If you move the camera away and toward the eyepiece, you should be able to see the eyepiece's full field of view, side to side(*). Try for somewhat dimmed with a sharp circular edge. Then you gently take an exposure, trying not to twist or move the camera. I can lightly press against the eyepiece to steady my hand.
It takes a little practice and a few tries, but it can be handy skill.
I have attached a picture I just took through the eyepiece of an American Optical 40, student microscope, with an old 2 megapixel Sony U30 camera (http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/sony/dsc-u30/sony-dsc-u30-review.html). (It is a good camera, but a more challenging microscope, for this.) It is the best of eight, from two sets of four. The first set did not have enough light; the second are a little rotated because the sun was washing out the old technology view screen.
(*) EDIT: You may get some cropping (letter boxing) at the top and bottom. Try to make it equal which will help align the camera over the eyepiece. [I need to get some more sleep.]
Here's some pictures and I'll try and explain what I'm seeing, i have a cheap microscope which the eye pieces are at the top and are vertically down and pcb board looks flat and it's like I'm looking vertically down on pcb but on this microscope the eye pieces are at a angle and the pcb board looks like it's in front of me and not like the other one where I'm looking vertically down, the new microscope it's like someone would have a phone in there hand in front of them and are looking straight at the phone in your own hand but the phone is not vertical but at a angle and I'm thinking maybe there's nothing wrong with it and it's meant to be like that
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Here's pictures of setup and inside microscope
sorry for this replay.
can upload some picture from stereo microscope(from inside body)..came off one piece from glass mirror(work for hole picture in the camera) and don't know where going this piece.
I would appreciate
thanks