New Zoyi multimeter+oscilloscopes - ZT-70xS, up to 50MHz/250MSps (nov 2022)

[IC_Toaster]

I have measured a Vcd voltage. It was supposed to be a 5 Vdc.


The value obtained with the multimeter is right, but the values obtained with the oscilloscope are wrong, and the RMS value is the worst..

The voltage measurements are not reliable, it's always better to use the cursors.
Could you please check if using the probe at 1x makes any difference?

Here you can see the same measure using cursors.


You can notice the cursors show the same voltage than the oscilloscope measurements.
Something is wrong in  the oscilloscope.

[IC_Toaster]

Trying to understand the nature of the attenuation of the Zoyi I measured a 5Vpp sinewave from a signal generator using the Zoyi probe both on the Zoyi and the OWON VDS1022i. I measured in orders of magnitude from 1kHz up to 10MHz. The Owon measures approx 5Vpp through the entire range, the Zoyi does not.
These are the results:

The same results that I obtained with a 5Vdc signal.
Is the country the problem? 

[IC_Toaster]

Hello nikbry.  I repeated your measurements and got 5 volts up to 1 MHz where it dropped to 4.9 and then at 10 MHz I got 4.7.

Was your probe attenuated to 10x?

[Grandchuck]

Yes at 10X.

[IC_Toaster]

Yes at 10X.

Ok, because the bandwidth changes.

[nikbry]

Trying to understand the nature of the attenuation of the Zoyi I measured a 5Vpp sinewave from a signal generator using the Zoyi probe both on the Zoyi and the OWON VDS1022i. I measured in orders of magnitude from 1kHz up to 10MHz. The Owon measures approx 5Vpp through the entire range, the Zoyi does not.
These are the results:

The same results that I obtained with a 5Vdc signal.
Is the country the problem? 

I have no problems when using the probe at 1x. My issue is when using 10x, where I see attenuation unless I overcompensate the probe slightly.
I also tried with a P6100 probe and I need to overcompensate it too, so the issue seems to be the scope.

[IC_Toaster]

Trying to understand the nature of the attenuation of the Zoyi I measured a 5Vpp sinewave from a signal generator using the Zoyi probe both on the Zoyi and the OWON VDS1022i. I measured in orders of magnitude from 1kHz up to 10MHz. The Owon measures approx 5Vpp through the entire range, the Zoyi does not.
These are the results:

The same results that I obtained with a 5Vdc signal.
Is the country the problem? 

I have no problems when using the probe at 1x. My issue is when using 10x, where I see attenuation unless I overcompensate the probe slightly.
I also tried with a P6100 probe and I need to overcompensate it too, so the issue seems to be the scope.

This is the raising edge response of my probes. Each probe compensated for each channel. The signal is the output D12 of an Arduino Nano.
Siglent probe on channel 1, Zoyi probe on channel 2 and P6100 chinese probe on channel 3.

Without attenuation:


10x attenuation:


Without attenuation on the probe the Zoyi probe is the faster, but with the probe attenuated the faster is the Siglent one.

From 0% to 100% 10x probe:


I think the Zoyi probe gives a 45MHz bandwith without attenuation on the signal. Or maybe there is something I have not considered.

I think the same than you: the problem is the scope because the frequency response of the probe is fast enough to not to have attenuation on the signal.

[IAmBack]

Serious bug found. I don't follow this thread carefully, so maybe I've missed such error report. Sorry if it is the case

The issue is quite serious: when probe is connected to calibration generator signal amplitude is decreasing sharply for time base LONGER than 5ms, and totally disappears at 50ms/div. The same behaviour on both channels.

Old 702 works ok.
Is it my device fault, or all works the same way?

Edit: it works ok in "peak" sample mode, hd makes plot a straight line.

[nikbry]

Serious bug found. I don't follow this thread carefully, so maybe I've missed such error report. Sorry if it is the case

The issue is quite serious: when probe is connected to calibration generator signal amplitude is decreasing sharply for time base LONGER than 5ms, and totally disappears at 50ms/div. The same behaviour on both channels.

Old 702 works ok.
Is it my device fault, or all works the same way?

Edit: it works ok in "peak" sample mode, hd makes plot a straight line.

No issues here,  neither in "Normal" nor "High" "Run Mode". FW1.32

[csuhi17]

it behaves the same way with me.
In 20ms/div the signal is smaller, in 50ms/div it disappears.
When you turn on Peakdetect, the signal looks good.
V1.4.2

[IAmBack]

Serious bug found. I don't follow this thread carefully, so maybe I've missed such error report. Sorry if it is the case

The issue is quite serious: when probe is connected to calibration generator signal amplitude is decreasing sharply for time base LONGER than 5ms, and totally disappears at 50ms/div. The same behaviour on both channels.

Old 702 works ok.
Is it my device fault, or all works the same way?

Edit: it works ok in "peak" sample mode, hd makes plot a straight line.

No issues here,  neither in "Normal" nor "High" "Run Mode". FW1.32

Try to change "sample mode", not the "run mode".

[IAmBack]

it behaves the same way with me.
In 20ms/div the signal is smaller, in 50ms/div it disappears.
When you turn on Peakdetect, the signal looks good.
V1.4.2

My fw is older, but effect is the same.
So we have a bug. IMO quite nasty....

[nikbry]

Try to change "sample mode", not the "run mode".

Where do I change that? Not sure FW1.32 has that Menu option!?

[csuhi17]

Try to change "sample mode", not the "run mode".

Where do I change that? Not sure FW1.32 has that Menu option!?

It's where you set the trigger settings.
"Sample" that you can convert to "HD" or "PEAK".
When set to HD, the wave is not visible.

[nikbry]

Try to change "sample mode", not the "run mode".

Where do I change that? Not sure FW1.32 has that Menu option!?

It's where you set the trigger settings.
"Sample" that you can convert to "HD" or "PEAK".
When set to HD, the wave is not visible.

FW 1.32 doesn't have that menu option, it has trig position instead.
Here ¡s a screenshot at 200ms/div.

[csuhi17]

Try to change "sample mode", not the "run mode".

Where do I change that? Not sure FW1.32 has that Menu option!?

It's where you set the trigger settings.
"Sample" that you can convert to "HD" or "PEAK".
When set to HD, the wave is not visible.

FW 1.32 doesn't have that menu option, it has trig position instead.
Here ¡s a screenshot at 200ms/div.

[spikey1973]

Hello to all,

Yesterday I got some good news and since the halloween sales started on AliE I decided to order a ANENG AOS03 basically to use icw my UT210E, Since my UT71C is beeping continuesly.
I am a newbee on Scopes, I have a basic theory on how to use them, But I was wundering if anyone of you here can point me to a nice online tutorial that helps me making the most of this new hobbiest scope, without going to deep into all the special dealings dealing with professional scopes.
Also I want to go and try to go about finding the problem with my UT71C by trying what creates the pulse to let the piezo disk beep.

about the firmware, Can I use firmware for the zoyi zt703s for the aneng aos03, they are essentially the same machine (essentially or exactly?)

Additionally I was wondering if there are special things I need to do before using the scope tool, besides the things below here.
1) update / downgrade the firmware. -> and here, I have the question, which is the most stable / least buggy version at the moment> (1.42 / 1.39 / 1.38)
2) calibrate the scope probes (I have some myself, but i am not sure if they are going to be better / equal / worse, quality compared to the probes provided with the scope

I have read through most of the thread and because of that I figure I need to stay away from some measuring errors. Just not sure which ones, does anyone have any thoughts on this that could help a / some newbee's out?

Kind greats

Matthieu

ps: is there any talk about new up and coming firmware more recent then 1.4.2?)

[indman]

I am a newbee on Scopes, I have a basic theory on how to use them, But I was wundering if anyone of you here can point me to a nice online tutorial that helps me making the most of this new hobbiest scope, without going to deep into all the special dealings dealing with professional scopes.

In my opinion, this and similar devices are not suitable as a first oscilloscope, which is necessary for a beginner.
The software and hardware of such devices contains a lot of errors and without having skills in work it will be difficult for you to determine who made a mistake - the user or the hardware part. As I wrote before and my opinion has not changed, the oscilloscope in this device has a toy interface, very clumsy and clumsy in operation.
The multimeter is several orders of magnitude better and more convenient in this instrument.

[hfleming]

Lol, sorry, have to disagree with you… try giving a newbie something like a Tektronix 465 oscilloscope, and see how long they take to master it. The main lesson is, know your tools. As gar as your multimeter is concerned, went through 30+ years of juniors engineers and techs, trying not to scream out aloud "just use your f*****g oscilloscope" whilst they keep on using a multimeter. Know your tools. These new-fangled oscilloscope/multimeters are perfect to throw in your toolbox, bust like any other test instrument, know its use cases and limitations.

[indman]

These new-fangled oscilloscope/multimeters are perfect to throw in your toolbox, bust like any other test instrument, know its use cases and limitations.

I completely disagree with your conclusions. If a device behaves unpredictably, it may confuse the user.
And it cannot in any way be considered a measuring instrument. This is nothing more than a toy.

[nikbry]

These new-fangled oscilloscope/multimeters are perfect to throw in your toolbox, bust like any other test instrument, know its use cases and limitations.

I completely disagree with your conclusions. If a device behaves unpredictably, it may confuse the user.
And it cannot in any way be considered a measuring instrument. This is nothing more than a toy.

I think by far the biggest problem with the Zoyi is that there are too many FWs and all have plenty of bugs, it's a mess.
If we only had had one FW, by now we would have identified all the bugs and would know what to expect from it, and it would be predictable.

So, I chose FW 1.32 and have kept track of all the bugs, and now feel pretty confident in what to expect and where the problems are. I don't plan to update, unless Zotek by devine influence manage to fix the FW for good.
But if you update with every new (almost monthly) iteration of buggy FW, then of course, you end up with an unpredictable instrument.

Of course, identifying bugs in itself is a fun learning experience too...

[spikey1973]

@Indman,
Although I do understand what you come from and I understand that you say it with the best intentions but I feel I disagree too.
I started to try to explain why, but I ended up with a text that is honoust but that it can be seen as ungratefull and I don't want it to be like that at all.
So please try to forgive me

Generally speaking though I feel a response (any forum/any topic) like in context of "what you do is wrong, you'd better do it my way".
Is not constructive, at least not for me anyway, no matter how right you may feel about your opinion.
Do take in account that there is always personal situations to consider that are important to the recieving end.

In my case a usb scope / are a student stope is not usefull to me both because of space, finances en personal mental (ADHD) way of working.
If I need to put a big device in my bench, I would need to take to much time to reorganise everything, not worth it for most jobs, so I would end up not using it.
This is a deep plunge for me and I feel like I have spend a large amount (for me anyway) for a tool I feel like I will actually use.
And I didn't make the choise in a day or so.

@ Nikbry, is this choise for FW 1.32 a conscious choise based on some criteria that were important to you or did you just stick with it over time more like randomly?
In the first case I could decide to start with 1.32 too. If it is the latter I'd could just start with what it comes with, or even the latest one and stick with it from there.

Generally speaking, is there a FW version that can be seen as "the least" buggy?
Anyway, I do feel like identifying bugs I read about in this thread, finding them will help me knowing when I would bump into them.

Also, is there some agreement on where I could find free online scope tutorial?
preferrably one that skips over the most basic stuff but does in form you enough to actually learn something from it, specifically on topic of debugging hardware?

kind greats

Matthieu

[IC_Toaster]

I am a newbee on Scopes, I have a basic theory on how to use them, But I was wundering if anyone of you here can point me to a nice online tutorial that helps me making the most of this new hobbiest scope, without going to deep into all the special dealings dealing with professional scopes.

In my opinion, this and similar devices are not suitable as a first oscilloscope, which is necessary for a beginner.
The software and hardware of such devices contains a lot of errors and without having skills in work it will be difficult for you to determine who made a mistake - the user or the hardware part. As I wrote before and my opinion has not changed, the oscilloscope in this device has a toy interface, very clumsy and clumsy in operation.
The multimeter is several orders of magnitude better and more convenient in this instrument.

I agree with you.
I had a good idea about this device, but this idea become worse as I discover/read bugs.

Lol, sorry, have to disagree with you… try giving a newbie something like a Tektronix 465 oscilloscope, and see how long they take to master it. The main lesson is, know your tools. As gar as your multimeter is concerned, went through 30+ years of juniors engineers and techs, trying not to scream out aloud "just use your f*****g oscilloscope" whilst they keep on using a multimeter. Know your tools. These new-fangled oscilloscope/multimeters are perfect to throw in your toolbox, bust like any other test instrument, know its use cases and limitations.

A real scope is much more difficult to know than this kind of devices, but it is more reliable. The main problem is that one needs to trust his measuring instrument and this does not happen because of the bugs. With experience and taking a reliable scope as reference one can know what are the bugs and take them in consideration in the measurements.

These new-fangled oscilloscope/multimeters are perfect to throw in your toolbox, bust like any other test instrument, know its use cases and limitations.

I completely disagree with your conclusions. If a device behaves unpredictably, it may confuse the user.
And it cannot in any way be considered a measuring instrument. This is nothing more than a toy.

I think by far the biggest problem with the Zoyi is that there are too many FWs and all have plenty of bugs, it's a mess.
If we only had had one FW, by now we would have identified all the bugs and would know what to expect from it, and it would be predictable.

So, I chose FW 1.32 and have kept track of all the bugs, and now feel pretty confident in what to expect and where the problems are. I don't plan to update, unless Zotek by devine influence manage to fix the FW for good.
But if you update with every new (almost monthly) iteration of buggy FW, then of course, you end up with an unpredictable instrument.

Of course, identifying bugs in itself is a fun learning experience too...

I have used only the last firmware and I can't compare with other versions, but due to the fact I see there are some bugs and I don't know all of them, I don't trust this device completely yet.
Could be interesting to discover bugs, but frustating at the same time because they make you feel you have made a wrong purchase.

I think if the manufacturers released the source code or information to allow the customers to improve the firmware, it would be better for the customer but at the same time would make sales rise.

[spikey1973]

@IC_Toaster

Yeah I do realise this is as much a oscilloscope as cheap hardwarestore MM stand to something professional multimeter.
So i know I will nevery completely trust a device like this, but for now I am oke with this. it's all a balance of personal pro's and cons.


I think if the manufacturers released the source code or information to allow the customers to improve the firmware,
it would be better for the customer but at the same time would make sales rise. >>> now that is something I can completely agree with.
Additionally would also cut on there development costs.. so all pro's / no con's at least non that I can see..
accept that it might help with reverse engineering??? and as the IC's are all laser etched it's seems to be one of there biggest concerns.

but about the firmware, anyone else owning the aneng version.
Can one use the zoyi FW?
this seems to be a question that has been asked before, but i haven't found an conclusive answer on yet (I might have just read over it though)

Kind greats

Matthieu

[IC_Toaster]

@IC_Toaster

Yeah I do realise this is as much a oscilloscope as cheap hardwarestore MM stand to something professional multimeter.
So i know I will nevery completely trust a device like this, but for now I am oke with this. it's all a balance of personal pro's and cons.


I think if the manufacturers released the source code or information to allow the customers to improve the firmware,
it would be better for the customer but at the same time would make sales rise. >>> now that is something I can completely agree with.
Additionally would also cut on there development costs.. so all pro's / no con's at least non that I can see..
accept that it might help with reverse engineering??? and as the IC's are all laser etched it's seems to be one of there biggest concerns.

but about the firmware, anyone else owning the aneng version.
Can one use the zoyi FW?
this seems to be a question that has been asked before, but i haven't found an conclusive answer on yet (I might have just read over it though)

Kind greats

Matthieu

If you don't need an accurate measuring instrument this device could be enough for you. Just keep in mind the limitations this device has.
I can't answer your question about the firmware, but I think this is just the same device with different label, so the firmware must be exactly the same. Maybe the booting screen is different with 'Aneng' word instead of 'Zoyi'