o scope for someone starting out 200-400$

[mastershake]

what is the most up to date recommended unit in the say 200-400 (i think 400 is his max he can do maybe a hair more if its like 429 or something like that he is trying to get other stuff also and has to figure in the overall cost) price point for someone starting out. they have a really old o scope which works kind of lol. i have not bought one in a good while so im not up to date on the current models out there. ill be teaching them as we go as long as i can continue to (cancer has spread unfortunately so i never know how long i will have)

appreciate the feedback

[james_s]

This has been discussed to death, nothing has really changed in the last 5 years or so, look for any of the threads on which scope to buy.

[mastershake]

well then are there any brands more reliable then others currently?

[Bionicbone]

If it helps I've been reading everything I can find and watched far too many YouTube videos. Conclusion, Rigol DS1054z with the 100mhz hack which is well documented and all the other extras are already unlocked now. Or the Rigol DS1104z Plus which is already 100mhz (no warranty breaking hack) and MSO ready (which to be fair most don't need or want or recommend really lol). If you can manage with 2 channels, then check out the Rigol DS1102Z-E, not sure how they can do it so cheap and when you check out the videos the Rigol always seem to come out best bang for the buck but there are cheaper options if you don't mind some crashing and small issues.
Just to say I'm not an expert, do your own research, just trying to save you getting  this headache and going round in circles lol.

[Fungus]

what is the most up to date recommended unit in the say 200-400

Exactly the same unit as four or five years ago.

This isn't a world that changes much.

[mwb1100]

Just to give you a leg up, contenders might be:

  - Rigol 1054z
  - Siglent SDS1104X-E
  - GW-Instek (I'm not very familiar with these)

The Rigol and Siglent mentioned above go for a bit over $400 unless you're willing to wait around for a promo or troll eBay for a nice, cheap used one. So you could also look into their 2 channel (or otherwise less featured) variations. Rigol and Siglent seem to generally own the "low end but good quality" space.

As other have mentioned, there are several threads and a gazillion posts about these low end (but very capable) oscilloscopes on the forum - you can easily spend dozens of hours researching.  Youtube is also a great resource/time-sink.

[james_s]

Like I said, it's been discussed to death, every question has been answered, thread after thread after thread, and now we have yet another thread. Rigol and Siglent are the two main players, they were the two main players several years ago. Both make good solid reliable products that deliver a lot of bang for the buck. In the price range listed I don't think there's anything else I would consider besides older Tek, HP/Agilent, LeCroy, etc but those I would look at more as a fun project or a way to get higher end features at a hobbyist friendly price rather than a first/only scope for a beginner.

[tautech]

what is the most up to date recommended unit in the say 200-400 (i think 400 is his max he can do maybe a hair more if its like 429 or something like that he is trying to get other stuff also and has to figure in the overall cost) price point for someone starting out. they have a really old o scope which works kind of lol. i have not bought one in a good while so im not up to date on the current models out there. ill be teaching them as we go as long as i can continue to (cancer has spread unfortunately so i never know how long i will have)

appreciate the feedback

Good luck with your health challenges. 
 
You didn't say 2 or 4ch and for a learner 2ch is often enough with SDS1202X-E a good choice not needing to learn how to use multiplexed vertical controls, something for the novice that can be confusing.
If 4 channels is a must have there are a few to choose from within your budget and SDS1104X-U comes in just under it. Otherwise if bells and whistles are important SDS1104X-E is the one to go for but it's $499.

[Sredni]

If you are on a budget and do not mind cumbersome interfaces, you might also consider a portable oscilloscope like the OwON HDS2102S which combine multimeter, function generator and 100 MHz portable oscilloscope with two channels. I am not a fan of 'all-in-one' solutions but you might be. There are versions without the function generator and 70MHz only that cost less.

[tatel]

I think GW-Instek GDS1054B could be the cheapest one in the US at about $350? Mine is better than me.

[jasonRF]

Another standard option is the siglent sds1104x-u.  It doesn’t have all the features of the sds1104x-e, but it is cheaper.   Right now it is $315 from amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS1104X-U-Phosphor-Oscilloscopes/dp/B08PD3WKCZ?th=1

[Bionicbone]

The thing that sways me away from Siglent to Rigol in this price range is the memory depth. But maybe I am missing something. Siglent state 14mpts (2 X 7mpts for 4 ch) and Rigol just state 24Mpts. I'll do some bus work so thinking 24Mpts is a key factor. Would you experienced guys agree? Or is there something about Siglent scopes that you think is a better trade ? Also I remembered Siglent support more decoders, I'm very interested in CAN Bus support.

[james_s]

The thing that sways me away from Siglent to Rigol in this price range is the memory depth. But maybe I am missing something. Siglent state 14mpts (2 X 7mpts for 4 ch) and Rigol just state 24Mpts. I'll do some bus work so thinking 24Mpts is a key factor. Would you experienced guys agree? Or is there something about Siglent scopes that you think is a better trade ? Also I remembered Siglent support more decoders, I'm very interested in CAN Bus support.

14mpts is *huge* from my perspective. My main scope has the deep memory option which gives it 8mpts which was massive at the time it was made and I very rarely make use of anywhere close to that. What do you need so much capture memory for? It's a scope, not a chart recorder.

If you're interested in capturing and decoding buses get a logic analyzer, the cheap USB ones are quite capable and will do a better job at this task than just about any scope. Use a scope when you want to check signal integrity.

[tautech]

The thing that sways me away from Siglent to Rigol in this price range is the memory depth. But maybe I am missing something. Siglent state 14mpts (2 X 7mpts for 4 ch) and Rigol just state 24Mpts. I'll do some bus work so thinking 24Mpts is a key factor. Would you experienced guys agree? Or is there something about Siglent scopes that you think is a better trade ? Also I remembered Siglent support more decoders, I'm very interested in CAN Bus support.

You need be aware some lower priced DSO's use a single ADC and others use 2 ADC's each with their own memory support.
Eg. SDS11/1204X-E uses 2 ADC's each with 14 Mpts memory support.
With this configuration 2 channels, one on each ADC can be provided with 14 Mpts mem depth on each. However engage a 3rd or a 2nd channel on the same ADC and everything halves, sampling rate and memory support.

The work around for some is to provide more memory when a single ADC is used however when a 2nd channel is activated sampling rates are halved, something a dual ADC DSO doesn't suffer from when channel allocation is used wisely.

[Bionicbone]

https://youtu.be/wZQj7TnWVNg I think a really good side by side comparison tests between the DS1104Z Plus and SDS1104X-E. Each seems to be better at different things. Rigol gets to 160mhz at -3db and 400mhz showing a signal. The Siglent is 117mhz and 140mhz bombs out. But the speed of the Siglent is much better, he says brighter screen, faster updates, but there sometimes seems some display issues on square waves (need to watch that bit again). I think when I first looked at this video I was drawn to the 400mhz thing just mentioned and memory but now I'm questioning memory especially given the responses below. Is the 400mhz thing a big positive that would sway the experts?

[james_s]

"Showing a signal" is useless. If you are that far beyond the rated bandwidth you have no idea if what the scope is showing you bears any resemblance to what the signal actually looks like.

[Bionicbone]

Thanks, I do have a cheapo logic analyzer that I can use with pulseview. When I started looking at this I was thinking the scope "Decoder" would bring further options but slowly discovering this is not the case in terms of data analysis. I think the scope would have saved my squeaky bum though when I first connected my home made CAN device to the car without first checking signal integrity, especially the acknowledge signal which I think I manage to disable.

Really interesting about the memory depth, these are the things that are designed to draw in a newbie, and why forums like this and the people like yourself are invaluable. Thanks.

[Bionicbone]

Crikey, something else to read up and check about 😄
I may have to bite the bullet here, buy one of the two on my list and learn lessons once I know what I'm doing lol
Probably the Rigol just because it's available through Amazon and they don't mess around if there's an issue.
Thanks for the great info.

[james_s]

Additional memory depth doesn't really hurt, and unlike in the past, memory is cheap now. It's not something I avoid, it just isn't something that would be a deciding factor for me either.

[2N3055]

https://youtu.be/wZQj7TnWVNg I think a really good side by side comparison tests between the DS1104Z Plus and SDS1104X-E. Each seems to be better at different things. Rigol gets to 160mhz at -3db and 400mhz showing a signal. The Siglent is 117mhz and 140mhz bombs out. But the speed of the Siglent is much better, he says brighter screen, faster updates, but there sometimes seems some display issues on square waves (need to watch that bit again). I think when I first looked at this video I was drawn to the 400mhz thing just mentioned and memory but now I'm questioning memory especially given the responses below. Is the 400mhz thing a big positive that would sway the experts?

First, SDS1104X-E is 200MHz design. There is a SDS1204X-E. That is same hardware...
Second, SDS1104X-E has two ADC. Meaning it has minimum 500MS/s with 4ch, and 2ch with full 1 GS/s sampling rate. Compared to min 250 MS/s for DS1054Z.
Also that means that it has 2x14MPts banks. With 1 and 2 ch it has 14MPts and 7MPts 4ch.
In segmented memory mode it has much more memory, in excess of 50-60 Mpts..
Compared to DS1054Z that goes 24/12/6MPts.. No real segmented memory mode, it has recording but you cannot use it for anything..
Also SDS1104X-E has up to 500uV/div real hardware preamp and low noise input. It has color grading display.. 1MPts FFT, Bode plot II...
More decodes (CAN for instance). etc..etc..etc.

Little DS1054Z is cute little bugger that is good value for money. SDS1104X-E is a class above scope that is already at level of using it for entry level professional work.

Both are good choice, but, if you have money go for SDS1104X-E... It's just better.
I have no personal experience with GW instek 1000 series.

[nctnico]

https://youtu.be/wZQj7TnWVNg I think a really good side by side comparison tests between the DS1104Z Plus and SDS1104X-E. Each seems to be better at different things. Rigol gets to 160mhz at -3db and 400mhz showing a signal. The Siglent is 117mhz and 140mhz bombs out. But the speed of the Siglent is much better, he says brighter screen, faster updates, but there sometimes seems some display issues on square waves (need to watch that bit again). I think when I first looked at this video I was drawn to the 400mhz thing just mentioned and memory but now I'm questioning memory especially given the responses below. Is the 400mhz thing a big positive that would sway the experts?

You might want to check out the GW Instek GDS1054B as well but it depends on your location whether it is cheaper or not. If you need bus decoding, this is the only model at the low end that decodes the entire memory and not just what is on screen compared to Rigol / Siglent (the latter becomes a problem when the start of a message is not on the screen). Another handy feature is signal filtering.

[mwb1100]

The thing that sways me away from Siglent to Rigol in this price range is the memory depth. But maybe I am missing something. Siglent state 14mpts (2 X 7mpts for 4 ch) and Rigol just state 24Mpts.

Small correction - from the DS1000Z datasheet: "24 Mpts (single-channel), 12 Mpts (dual-channel), 6 Mpts (three/four-channel)"

[n4u]

IMO spending too much on first scope isnt worth it. U may easily damage it. But some old analog, or tds210 etc - they arent as good as chinese scope like rigol1024 etc but they are cheap - u can spend cash on sth u will use more frequently - like soldering station, or multimeter. For automatic logic state reading u can buy logic state analyzer.

[james_s]

Where are you finding TDS210 scopes cheap? They've always been overpriced IMO, I don't recall ever seeing a bargain on one. Good working analog scopes are getting a lot harder to come by too, they're almost all more than 20 years old now.

And really, it's 2023, we have autocomplete and autocorrect, and bandwidth is cheap, is there really any reason to use "u" instead of "you"?

[jonpaul]

I would avoid the Chinese digital scopes.

A beginner can easily find a 2 ch 10..50 MHz vintage analog scope for $/€ 25..100.

Hameg, Philips, Tektronix HP.

We found a,Hameg HM103 in Paris at a flea market is €5, ans another Hameg, HM203 at a,street market forward €25

Both still,working

Jon