Oh NO! I'm never buying any Agilent Keysight equipment ever again!

[bsgd]

Warranties don't cover accidents, they cover manufacturing defects. Once the warranty period has ended why would a company be obligated to provide a replacement?

As I said, I've seen several examples of companies covering for a manufacturing defect after the warranty had expired. That's what Sony did in the case I mention, for example. They had absolutely no legal requirement to do so. They opened the unit and, whoops, there was an obvious manufacturing defect, so they repaired it and they refused to charge.

And I'm talking about a manufacturing defect, not accidental damage of course. That's what thet said when they called. I did not expect it. That's not something you expect. But you can imagine that it had a strong positive effect on my trust as a customer.

Exactly.

[tautech]

Am I missing something here? Didn't this unit item fail outside of the warranty period?

It sucks that the fault wasn't found until the warranty expired, but an expiration date is just that. They sell extended warranties, and you chose to save a little money rather that buy insurance, but now that the risk failed to pay off you want Keysight to eat it? If they don't give you "bonus free extended warranty coverage" they are a bad company? That sounds like very entitled attitude.

There is a difference between an accident and something breaking because of a defect. A company that sticks to a warranty expiration to refuse covering a manufacturing defect is, in my book, dishonest. It can be legal,  but there are plenty of ways to be dishonest while complying with the law.

Warranties don't cover accidents, they cover manufacturing defects. Once the warranty period has ended why would a company be obligated to provide a replacement? This argument that it only had "ten hours of use" is irrelevant. The warranty period is a fixed period of time, not hours of use. You could buy a new unit, leave it on a shelf and never turn it on, and upon discovering it's defective after the warranty period expires is not the manufacturers responsibility.

You buy an extended warranty and hope you never need to use it. This argument that Keysight has somehow wronged the consumer here is childish.

Not entirely.

If the boot # count was very low at failure a considerate manufacturer might choose to replace it....especially if the customer was considering further purchases.

[bsgd]

Am I missing something here? Didn't this unit item fail outside of the warranty period?

It sucks that the fault wasn't found until the warranty expired, but an expiration date is just that. They sell extended warranties, and you chose to save a little money rather that buy insurance, but now that the risk failed to pay off you want Keysight to eat it? If they don't give you "bonus free extended warranty coverage" they are a bad company? That sounds like very entitled attitude.

There is a difference between an accident and something breaking because of a defect. A company that sticks to a warranty expiration to refuse covering a manufacturing defect is, in my book, dishonest. It can be legal,  but there are plenty of ways to be dishonest while complying with the law.

Warranties don't cover accidents, they cover manufacturing defects. Once the warranty period has ended why would a company be obligated to provide a replacement? This argument that it only had "ten hours of use" is irrelevant. The warranty period is a fixed period of time, not hours of use. You could buy a new unit, leave it on a shelf and never turn it on, and upon discovering it's defective after the warranty period expires is not the manufacturers responsibility.

You buy an extended warranty and hope you never need to use it. This argument that Keysight has somehow wronged the consumer here is childish.

AND, according to the Brazilian law, this could be considered a 'hidden manufacturing defect', so they should replace it anyway, even if the initial warranty period has expired, thats what may lawyer said (and someone here pointed out), but I'm seeking some more specialized legal advice today.

Anyway, I'm not doing anything before Daniel gets back to me, as I do believe he's really willing to help and to be honest Id rather have this solved peacefully.

[Sbampato12]

Am I missing something here? Didn't this unit item fail outside of the warranty period?

It sucks that the fault wasn't found until the warranty expired, but an expiration date is just that. They sell extended warranties, and you chose to save a little money rather that buy insurance, but now that the risk failed to pay off you want Keysight to eat it? If they don't give you "bonus free extended warranty coverage" they are a bad company? That sounds like very entitled attitude.

There is a difference between an accident and something breaking because of a defect. A company that sticks to a warranty expiration to refuse covering a manufacturing defect is, in my book, dishonest. It can be legal,  but there are plenty of ways to be dishonest while complying with the law.

Warranties don't cover accidents, they cover manufacturing defects. Once the warranty period has ended why would a company be obligated to provide a replacement? This argument that it only had "ten hours of use" is irrelevant. The warranty period is a fixed period of time, not hours of use. You could buy a new unit, leave it on a shelf and never turn it on, and upon discovering it's defective after the warranty period expires is not the manufacturers responsibility.

You buy an extended warranty and hope you never need to use it. This argument that Keysight has somehow wronged the consumer here is childish.

The only point that makes me think twice, is the price they sent to the OP. About the fact of the problems get after warranty, I think like you. Theres nothing wrong. But how can a service cost more than a new unit. On other hand, we are talking about brazil, where everything goes backwards, and this isn't all strange for me.

The great point, I will look foward to make Maintenance Agreement for my two scopes when the warranty expires. For sure.

Glad they will expire about 2018

Edited to correct the text (was inside quote)

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Ok, I just skimmed the last few pages since Saturday and I'm in contact with our service teams.

Regarding warranty length, it was changed from 3 years up to 5 years just a couple years ago.  So, this scope was likely purchased by Farnell before that change. 

For this situation, I'm working with the team to get everything covered by us. I don't see any reason that this won't happen, but I haven't gotten final confirmation yet.

[bsgd]

Thank you very much Daniel!

[stmdude]

For this situation, I'm working with the team to get everything covered by us. I don't see any reason that this won't happen, but I haven't gotten final confirmation yet.

Daniel comes through, once again!

[timgiles]

I hope the OP changes the title of the post. Fully understand (following it from his initial post) why he felt so angry, I sure would too. But good customer service, even if it is late coming, deserves fair treatment.

Glad everything is coming together for you.

[CJay]

Am I missing something here? Didn't this unit item fail outside of the warranty period?

It sucks that the fault wasn't found until the warranty expired, but an expiration date is just that. They sell extended warranties, and you chose to save a little money rather that buy insurance, but now that the risk failed to pay off you want Keysight to eat it? If they don't give you "bonus free extended warranty coverage" they are a bad company? That sounds like very entitled attitude.

There is a difference between an accident and something breaking because of a defect. A company that sticks to a warranty expiration to refuse covering a manufacturing defect is, in my book, dishonest. It can be legal,  but there are plenty of ways to be dishonest while complying with the law.

Warranties don't cover accidents, they cover manufacturing defects. Once the warranty period has ended why would a company be obligated to provide a replacement? This argument that it only had "ten hours of use" is irrelevant. The warranty period is a fixed period of time, not hours of use. You could buy a new unit, leave it on a shelf and never turn it on, and upon discovering it's defective after the warranty period expires is not the manufacturers responsibility.

You buy an extended warranty and hope you never need to use it. This argument that Keysight has somehow wronged the consumer here is childish.

You'd be wrong in the EU, we have a remedy in law if a device fails outside warranty but within a reasonably expected lifetime.

I would suggest that five years plus isn't an unreasonable time for a $2000+ scope to work.

[bsgd]

I hope the OP changes the title of the post. Fully understand (following it from his initial post) why he felt so angry, I sure would too. But good customer service, even if it is late coming, deserves fair treatment.

Glad everything is coming together for you.

Sure. But for now I'll wait since nothing has changed yet. So far what I have noticed is that Keysight US has been VERY helpful and at least took some time to understand my situation, while Keysight Brazil wont even care to listen to my complaints.

[botcrusher]

Perhaps the guys in Brazil are jaded from fixing countless scopes plugged into the wrong voltage

[Hydrawerk]

Many Keysight (or HP, Agilent) scopes probably work with 100V to 240V. My DSOX2002A does so.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Yep, all the current InfiniiVision scopes come with the universal power supply. So you just need your local cable (comes with the scope, too).

[LA7SJA]

Perhaps the guys in Brazil are jaded from fixing countless scopes plugged into the wrong voltage

I sure hope you don't mean "The Boys from Brazil"

Johan-Fredrik

[LabSpokane]

All,

When talking about Keysight's repair policies, please keep in mind that they are now having to go it alone and that all aspects of the business were likely re-evaluated with respect to whether or not they were a revenue source or sink. I'm not apologizing for these ridiculous (in my opinion) repair costs, but that's likely the reason. So, take it easy on Daniel.

Daniel,

I know this isn't your wheelhouse, but if you have the opportunity to direct KS policy makers to threads like these - I think that they might realize that serviceability is part of the value equation when users buy equipment.  It's an intangible that should be factored in when evaluating the profitability of the parts and service side.

It would be nice to see a modification to KS's policy on part sales where a user could choose to void their warranty in exchange for the ability to purchase parts.

Also, there are a large number of users that seem unaware of the ability to purchase service agreements.


FWIW...

[firewalker]

If the scope was out of warranty, what would justify such a repair cost? Mainboard change?

Alexander.

[DimitriP]

If the scope was out of warranty, what would justify such a repair cost? Mainboard change?

Alexander.

This story started "wierd" with someone claiming that the unit was "impossible to repair".
I don't understand "impossible" and I understand "impossible to repair" even less.

So the guy was sent a replacement scope. I don't know for sure if it was a brand new scope, but if it was, it seems to me the warranty should have reset and started again the moment he was sent the new scope. Since the "new" scope could have it's own , new, different "defects covered under warranty.

The ridicilous part of keeping a unit on a shelf, and not being able to rutrn on "because it sat unused" ...is also strange  and bizzare. What if you bought two in order to have one as a backup? Use it or lose it?
Electronic devices with a shelf life like potato chips?   C'mon!!!

[bsgd]

If the scope was out of warranty, what would justify such a repair cost? Mainboard change?

Alexander.

This story started "wierd" with someone claiming that the unit was "impossible to repair".
I don't understand "impossible" and I understand "impossible to repair" even less.

So the guy was sent a replacement scope. I don't know for sure if it was a brand new scope, but if it was, it seems to me the warranty should have reset and started again the moment he was sent the new scope. Since the "new" scope could have it's own , new, different "defects covered under warranty.

The ridicilous part of keeping a unit on a shelf, and not being able to rutrn on "because it sat unused" ...is also strange  and bizzare. What if you bought two in order to have one as a backup? Use it or lose it?
Electronic devices with a shelf life like potato chips?   C'mon!!!

Actually Keysight's technical repair team claimed the Oscilloscope was unrepairable. Daniel has the e-mails in which Keysight claimed this.
Keysight said the replacement was a brand new scope, never used or refurbished. The warranty did not restart as our laws around here do not demand that, so it would only happen if Keysight wanted to do that by its own.

I do not know if the scope failed because it was left unused for a long time, but we have a coincidence here, since two different scopes in two different parts of the world died after beeing left off for some time. Mine was working perfectly fine when put in storage and it was a backup unit. When they needed it, it simply refused to boot on the first power on and was sent to Keysight.

[Keysight DanielBogdanoff]

Without diving into our repair strategies for different products, sometimes it makes more sense financially to just do a replacement. Then, sometimes the boards get sent for re-work at the factory instead of at a service center.

[bitseeker]

It would be nice to see a modification to KS's policy on part sales where a user could choose to void their warranty in exchange for the ability to purchase parts.

Yeah, I'd like to get clarification on parts sales policies because I've heard mixed results from forum members.

@Daniel: Could you or another KS person reply to the thread below that I started regarding parts?

What's the skinny on purchasing parts from Keysight?

[Ed.Kloonk]

I hope the OP changes the title of the post. Fully understand (following it from his initial post) why he felt so angry, I sure would too. But good customer service, even if it is late coming, deserves fair treatment.

Glad everything is coming together for you.

So what happens when this fixed one craps out? Seems like pretty shitty gear to me if it sits on the shelf until you need it and won't work when you want it to.

[AndyC_772]

Out of professional interest, I'd love to know what kind of defect a product could possibly have which would cause it to stop working when left unused - assuming that the product is being stored in reasonably benign environmental conditions.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Same here, does it have a supercap?

[Lunasix]

These brands are able to pay much money for advertising but refuse to do a commercial effort when a customer, who as already paid, as a problem which could be solved at a ridiculous cost by the company. I was thinking to buy, for my work, a Keysight scope (they are used to buy Tektronix, nobody is perfect...), but now, I don't know anymmore.

[stmdude]

Out of professional interest, I'd love to know what kind of defect a product could possibly have which would cause it to stop working when left unused - assuming that the product is being stored in reasonably benign environmental conditions.

I'm curious as well.  RTC battery runs out?  Easily forgotten to test when developing the product.