Oh NO! I'm never buying any Agilent Keysight equipment ever again!

[GlowingGhoul]

Yep. I'm not interested in seeing if Daniel sorts this one device out or not. I'm Interested in seeing if the Brazilian distributor gets fixed.

But it is arguable whether the Brazil office/distributor were in the wrong - depends if the second scope could be considered to be not fit for sale[1] -  it seems just the sort of case for a discretionary decision by Keysight customer services to me.

[1]  what would you have said if the original scope the OP had bought had shown a PLL fault a few months out of warranty?

I get that if they reset the warranty to zero when they send out a replacement then certain people would see that as "Free oscilloscope for life!!"

In this case though: The replacement failed within a very short time. I'd expect a bit of discretion from a company with any pride in its after-sales service.

5 months is not a very short period of time. His warranty expired, he had the opportunity to buy an extended warranty and chose not to. Like a spoiled child, he keeps blasting Keysight as if it's a poor company because it won't give him the out-of-warranty freebee he wants.

His demands are rude, irrational, and instead of graciously accepting Daniel's offer to assist he keeps insulting Keysight and has engaged an attorney.

If I were Keysight, I wouldn't do a damn thing more for this guy. Let the man who says he can't afford a phone call from Brazil to the US use the attorney he hired to sue them. I'm certain he'll lose.

Dude, you really need to read the thread. The original issue was about the ridiculous price of a repair, not getting something for nothing.

"I have tried to talk to everyone I could at Keysight but they insist I must pay this and theres no other way around it. I'm still shocked and have absolutely no idea on what to do."

He has, from the beginning, insisted that Keysight take care of this because it's only 5 months out of warranty. He won't make a phone call to the US because it's too pricey, so if you think he just wants Keysight to cut the price of the repair you're mistaken. He wants it for FREE.

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

[wraper]

(I don't think the problem I had with the CoreDuo was GPU related anyway. I'm pretty sure the DVI port worked with an external monitor, which means it was actually an LCD issue.)

Core duo seem to have AMD GPU. However display not working but external video output functioning at the same time was quiet common for that fault.

[nctnico]

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

I would be pissed if a replacement scope dies within 5 months. Actually I'd expect to get a full warranty period on a replacement scope. After all it is supposed to be (like) new!

[bsgd]

Yep. I'm not interested in seeing if Daniel sorts this one device out or not. I'm Interested in seeing if the Brazilian distributor gets fixed.

But it is arguable whether the Brazil office/distributor were in the wrong - depends if the second scope could be considered to be not fit for sale[1] -  it seems just the sort of case for a discretionary decision by Keysight customer services to me.

[1]  what would you have said if the original scope the OP had bought had shown a PLL fault a few months out of warranty?

I get that if they reset the warranty to zero when they send out a replacement then certain people would see that as "Free oscilloscope for life!!"

In this case though: The replacement failed within a very short time. I'd expect a bit of discretion from a company with any pride in its after-sales service.

5 months is not a very short period of time. His warranty expired, he had the opportunity to buy an extended warranty and chose not to. Like a spoiled child, he keeps blasting Keysight as if it's a poor company because it won't give him the out-of-warranty freebee he wants.

His demands are rude, irrational, and instead of graciously accepting Daniel's offer to assist he keeps insulting Keysight and has engaged an attorney.

If I were Keysight, I wouldn't do a damn thing more for this guy. Let the man who says he can't afford a phone call from Brazil to the US use the attorney he hired to sue them. I'm certain he'll lose.

Dude, you really need to read the thread. The original issue was about the ridiculous price of a repair, not getting something for nothing.

"I have tried to talk to everyone I could at Keysight but they insist I must pay this and theres no other way around it. I'm still shocked and have absolutely no idea on what to do."

He has, from the beginning, insisted that Keysight take care of this because it's only 5 months out of warranty. He won't make a phone call to the US because it's too pricey, so if you think he just wants Keysight to cut the price of the repair you're mistaken. He wants it for FREE.

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

I see you have a lot of imagination my friend! You must be a very creative person, but please use all that imagination for the good!

I actually want the whole world for free and I have a secret plan to conquer the world. Obviously I can't share it with you or I wont be able to do so!

[GlowingGhoul]

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

I would be pissed if a replacement scope dies within 5 months. Actually I'd expect to get a full warranty period on a replacement scope. After all it is supposed to be (like) new!

I would be pissed if a scope dies after 15 years, but that doesn't mean the company has an obligation to repair or replace a device beyond the warranty period. A full term warranty after each repair/replacement? What company does that?

[GlowingGhoul]

I see you have a lot of imagination my friend! You must be a very creative person, but please use all that imagination for the good!

I actually want the whole world for free and I have a secret plan to conquer the world. Obviously I can't share it with you or I wont be able to do so!

I don't need an imagination to analyze this situation.

Your equipment failed many months after the warranty expired. You believe you're entitled to a free repair or replacement despite the clear warranty terms and the ability to buy an inexpensive extended warranty. You took a chance and lost, now you cry like a spoiled brat.

Instead of taking the lesson of your stupidity, you want to make Keysight the bad actor.

[bsgd]

I see you have a lot of imagination my friend! You must be a very creative person, but please use all that imagination for the good!

I actually want the whole world for free and I have a secret plan to conquer the world. Obviously I can't share it with you or I wont be able to do so!

I don't need an imagination to analyze this situation.

Your equipment failed many months after the warranty expired. You believe you're entitled to a free repair or replacement despite the clear warranty terms and the ability to buy an inexpensive extended warranty. You took a chance and lost, now you cry like a spoiled brat.

Instead of taking the lesson of your stupidity, you want to make Keysight the bad actor.

Well, you keep surprising me! You actually have A LOT, I mean, A LOT of imagination! Much more that I thought
You dont need imagination to analyze the situation, I know. But you do need it to make things up. I like it, makes everything more interesting.

I never said I want a free repair. Or a free warranty. Or a free BMW (uhm, maybe I do want that). And I'm not crying Keysight US is AMAZING to be honest, and they have been handling this like any reputable company should.

I was just telling my story so everyone knows what happened to me. You know what happened right? That was the whole point. This is a discussion board, so what do we do here? Discuss about stuff

But I do want he whole world for free with my ultra top secret plan 

[GlowingGhoul]

I see you have a lot of imagination my friend! You must be a very creative person, but please use all that imagination for the good!

I actually want the whole world for free and I have a secret plan to conquer the world. Obviously I can't share it with you or I wont be able to do so!

I don't need an imagination to analyze this situation.

Your equipment failed many months after the warranty expired. You believe you're entitled to a free repair or replacement despite the clear warranty terms and the ability to buy an inexpensive extended warranty. You took a chance and lost, now you cry like a spoiled brat.

Instead of taking the lesson of your stupidity, you want to make Keysight the bad actor.

Well, you keep surprising me! You actually have A LOT, I mean, A LOT of imagination! Much more that I thought
You dont need imagination to analyze the situation, I know. But you do need it to make things up. I like it, makes everything more interesting.

I never said I want a free repair. Or a free warranty. Or a free BMW (uhm, maybe I do want that). And I'm not crying Keysight US is AMAZING to be honest, and they have been handling this like any reputable company should.

I was just telling my story so everyone knows what happened to me. You know what happened right? That was the whole point. This is a discussion board, so what do we do here? Discuss about stuff

But I do want he whole world for free with my ultra top secret plan 

I know what you claim happened because you wrote about it here extensively.

Your behavior is shameful. You come here screaming and insulting Keysight as if they wronged you somehow, but they didn't. They've lived up to the terms of their written warranty and you're demanding more.

If they do repair or replace your unit, how many more years of free warranty coverage do you think your entitled to?

[bsgd]

I see you have a lot of imagination my friend! You must be a very creative person, but please use all that imagination for the good!

I actually want the whole world for free and I have a secret plan to conquer the world. Obviously I can't share it with you or I wont be able to do so!

I don't need an imagination to analyze this situation.

Your equipment failed many months after the warranty expired. You believe you're entitled to a free repair or replacement despite the clear warranty terms and the ability to buy an inexpensive extended warranty. You took a chance and lost, now you cry like a spoiled brat.

Instead of taking the lesson of your stupidity, you want to make Keysight the bad actor.

Well, you keep surprising me! You actually have A LOT, I mean, A LOT of imagination! Much more that I thought
You dont need imagination to analyze the situation, I know. But you do need it to make things up. I like it, makes everything more interesting.

I never said I want a free repair. Or a free warranty. Or a free BMW (uhm, maybe I do want that). And I'm not crying Keysight US is AMAZING to be honest, and they have been handling this like any reputable company should.

I was just telling my story so everyone knows what happened to me. You know what happened right? That was the whole point. This is a discussion board, so what do we do here? Discuss about stuff

But I do want he whole world for free with my ultra top secret plan 

I know what you claim happened because you wrote about it here extensively.

Your behavior is shameful. You come here screaming and insulting Keysight as if they wronged you somehow, but they didn't. They've lived up to the terms of their written warranty and you're demanding more.

If they do repair or replace your unit, how many more years of free warranty coverage do you think your entitled to?

I'm not entitled to any warranty, it expired already as I said befeore.... But I will order the extended warranty for all my scopes and I sent Daniel an e-mail about this too.

Better safe than sorry

[rsjsouza]

Yep. I'm not interested in seeing if Daniel sorts this one device out or not. I'm Interested in seeing if the Brazilian distributor gets fixed.

But it is arguable whether the Brazil office/distributor were in the wrong - depends if the second scope could be considered to be not fit for sale[1] -  it seems just the sort of case for a discretionary decision by Keysight customer services to me.

[1]  what would you have said if the original scope the OP had bought had shown a PLL fault a few months out of warranty?

I get that if they reset the warranty to zero when they send out a replacement then certain people would see that as "Free oscilloscope for life!!"

In this case though: The replacement failed within a very short time. I'd expect a bit of discretion from a company with any pride in its after-sales service.

5 months is not a very short period of time. His warranty expired, he had the opportunity to buy an extended warranty and chose not to. Like a spoiled child, he keeps blasting Keysight as if it's a poor company because it won't give him the out-of-warranty freebee he wants.

His demands are rude, irrational, and instead of graciously accepting Daniel's offer to assist he keeps insulting Keysight and has engaged an attorney.

If I were Keysight, I wouldn't do a damn thing more for this guy. Let the man who says he can't afford a phone call from Brazil to the US use the attorney he hired to sue them. I'm certain he'll lose.

Dude, you really need to read the thread. The original issue was about the ridiculous price of a repair, not getting something for nothing.

"I have tried to talk to everyone I could at Keysight but they insist I must pay this and theres no other way around it. I'm still shocked and have absolutely no idea on what to do."

He has, from the beginning, insisted that Keysight take care of this because it's only 5 months out of warranty. He won't make a phone call to the US because it's too pricey, so if you think he just wants Keysight to cut the price of the repair you're mistaken. He wants it for FREE.

He reported a situation he found absurd as many others do in this forum do day in and day out. The fact he is mad about the fact they want him to pay an absurd price for a repair of an oscilloscope that was barely used* AND was already a replacement for a faulty unit is just that: he finds the price too high and thinks it is worth reporting. Nothing more, nothing less (I haven't seen him bashing Keysight US for that). As someone else mentioned, if the repair was some hundreds of dollars this thread wouldn't exist, or it would be more on the lines of a "possible DSO2000 sudden death syndrome after X months turned off".

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

The louder and more belligerent you get the more inclined I am to believe you simply failed, outside of the perfect reason, to look at the original post from a non-judgmental scope...

*Easy to verify by looking at the power-on time counter of the oscilloscope.

[GlowingGhoul]

[He reported a situation he found absurd as many others do in this forum do day in and day out. The fact he is mad about the fact they want him to pay an absurd price for a repair of an oscilloscope that was barely used* AND was already a replacement for a faulty unit is just that: he finds the price too high and thinks it is worth reporting. Nothing more, nothing less (I haven't seen him bashing Keysight US for that). As someone else mentioned, if the repair was some hundreds of dollars this thread wouldn't exist, or it would be more on the lines of a "possible DSO2000 sudden death syndrome after X months turned off".

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

The louder and more belligerent you get the more inclined I am to believe you simply failed, outside of the perfect reason, to look at the original post from a non-judgmental scope...

*Easy to verify by looking at the power-on time counter of the oscilloscope.

At no point did the original poster say he would be happy with a lower repair price, why are you assuming that? He wouldn't even make a phone call because it might cost a couple of dollars.

How long after a warranty has expired do you think a manufacturer is obligated to repair a product? I am struggling to understand why some people have such a difficult time with this concept. A warranty is an agreement for a fixed period. It wouldn't be any more acceptable for a manufacturer to refuse to service a defective item because "the warranty is almost over" any more than the absurd sense of entitlement that allow someone to get furious with a company that won't make give them a free extended warranty, which is what the poster effectively wants.

[nctnico]

How long after a warranty has expired do you think a manufacturer is obligated to repair a product? I am struggling to understand why some people have such a difficult time with this concept.

That is due to your detachement from reality but I'm sure that when you buy a product you will want it to keep working long after the warranty expires? Or are you completely happy when everything you own breaks the day the warranty expires?

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

However I can't judge about the OP's specific situation and I don't know what has happened so far exactly so it makes no sense to speculate about who is right or wrong but I do expect Keysight to be reasonable based on all the knowledge they have about the actual situation.

[bsgd]

[He reported a situation he found absurd as many others do in this forum do day in and day out. The fact he is mad about the fact they want him to pay an absurd price for a repair of an oscilloscope that was barely used* AND was already a replacement for a faulty unit is just that: he finds the price too high and thinks it is worth reporting. Nothing more, nothing less (I haven't seen him bashing Keysight US for that). As someone else mentioned, if the repair was some hundreds of dollars this thread wouldn't exist, or it would be more on the lines of a "possible DSO2000 sudden death syndrome after X months turned off".

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

The louder and more belligerent you get the more inclined I am to believe you simply failed, outside of the perfect reason, to look at the original post from a non-judgmental scope...

*Easy to verify by looking at the power-on time counter of the oscilloscope.

At no point did the original poster say he would be happy with a lower repair price, why are you assuming that? He wouldn't even make a phone call because it might cost a couple of dollars.

How long after a warranty has expired do you think a manufacturer is obligated to repair a product? I am struggling to understand why some people have such a difficult time with this concept. A warranty is an agreement for a fixed period. It wouldn't be any more acceptable for a manufacturer to refuse to service a defective item because "the warranty is almost over" any more than the absurd sense of entitlement that allow someone to get furious with a company that won't make give them a free extended warranty, which is what the poster effectively wants.

That is NOT what I want, that is what you want me to want but I dont wanna want that, get it? I never wrote that, but your imagination keeps telling you that my friend 

I did write to Keysight Brazil (before posting here) telling them that I expected to pay much less than that. But I dont wanna expose all my case here, Daniel has everything he needs to understand it all in detail.

Actually that repair price is higher than what a new unit would cost me here, so it makes no sense. Keysight could offer me a new unit for less then that.

[bsgd]

[He reported a situation he found absurd as many others do in this forum do day in and day out. The fact he is mad about the fact they want him to pay an absurd price for a repair of an oscilloscope that was barely used* AND was already a replacement for a faulty unit is just that: he finds the price too high and thinks it is worth reporting. Nothing more, nothing less (I haven't seen him bashing Keysight US for that). As someone else mentioned, if the repair was some hundreds of dollars this thread wouldn't exist, or it would be more on the lines of a "possible DSO2000 sudden death syndrome after X months turned off".

The louder and more belligerent the poster gets the more inclined I am to believe this unit simply failed, outside of the warranty period, and he wants an exception to the clear warranty terms made for him.

The louder and more belligerent you get the more inclined I am to believe you simply failed, outside of the perfect reason, to look at the original post from a non-judgmental scope...

*Easy to verify by looking at the power-on time counter of the oscilloscope.

At no point did the original poster say he would be happy with a lower repair price, why are you assuming that? He wouldn't even make a phone call because it might cost a couple of dollars.

How long after a warranty has expired do you think a manufacturer is obligated to repair a product? I am struggling to understand why some people have such a difficult time with this concept. A warranty is an agreement for a fixed period. It wouldn't be any more acceptable for a manufacturer to refuse to service a defective item because "the warranty is almost over" any more than the absurd sense of entitlement that allow someone to get furious with a company that won't make give them a free extended warranty, which is what the poster effectively wants.

BTW, I decided to check the rates for an international call to the US around here. I dont usually check that because I make few international calls and when I do, they are just a couple minutes. Anyway, calling to the US is much cheaper than what I thought, only $1.14 (USD) per minute.

I did spend more than 5 hours total trying to solve this whole problem down here, which would translate to ~350 dollars  (considering I would need to talk that much, but I highly doubt that since Keysight US has been very quick to understand the problem). But yes, I could easily call if needed, I tought it was much more expensive. I'm happy you mentioned that and made me actually look for the rates.

Rates are here (in BRL):

https://www.vivo.com.br/portalweb/appmanager/env/web?_nfls=false&_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=P61200154721369424431978&WT.ac=portal.movel.vivo15.tarifasddiavulso.celularvivo#

See my friend, you helped me once again! I did not know calling the US was affordable. Just as a comparison, calling Africa would cost me almost 6.00USD a minute! Rates are much better nowadays than last time I checked (yes, many years ago I must confess!).

Thank you, this thread has made me learn quite a few useful things and this is the beauty of such a place

[wraper]

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Unless you illegally sneak it into Brazil without paying their insane taxes, I doubt $2000 is more than 40% of the scope price.

[bktemp]

In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Can you give me a reference for that? I know about a law in the UK, but have never heard of anything similar for the EU. I can only find information about a 2-year guarantee period:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

[rsjsouza]

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Unless you illegally sneak it into Brazil without paying their insane taxes, I doubt $2000 is more than 40% of the scope price.

When I lived in Brazil, instrumentation and test equipment fell into a much lower tax bracket (a few %). Not sure how it is nowadays, though.

[bsgd]

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Unless you illegally sneak it into Brazil without paying their insane taxes, I doubt $2000 is more than 40% of the scope price.

I dont know if Farnell 'sneaks' whith their products here, maybe you should ask them and tell us
And the price of a new one was also quoted by Keysight Brazil itself, if you read the complete thread. Are you saying Keysight ilegally sneaks with products here to avoid taxes? I doubt that.

[razberik]

Actually it is not very strange for me if repair costs more than buying new one.
Packing, logistic, paperwork. Whats actually strange about that ? Especially in stupid countries. (no offense Bsgd)
I have some optimized flow for distributing new units and repair routes might be odd for me somehow. Something like buying cheap crap from ebay. It is so easy to buy from China, however it is not very comfortable to return item.

[wraper]

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Unless you illegally sneak it into Brazil without paying their insane taxes, I doubt $2000 is more than 40% of the scope price.

I dont know if Farnell 'sneaks' whith their products here, maybe you should ask them and tell us
And the price of a new one was also quoted by Keysight Brazil itself, if you read the complete thread. Are you saying Keysight ilegally sneaks with products here to avoid taxes? I doubt that.

I cannot find mentioning any scope prices in Brazil in this tread, only mentioning US Prices. Though there is farnell page about the shipping to Brazil http://www.newark.com/brazil-direct-ship

2- Impostos o que incide e como calcular?
Imposto de Importação: 60% do Valor Aduaneiro (Valor Aduaneiro = somatório do valor da mercadoria + frete)
ICMS: em média 18%, variando de acordo com o Estado

[bsgd]

Anyway it is perfectly reasonable to expect a manufacturer (or seller) to be reasonable about the repair costs and certainly not charge nearly new prices for a repair which is necessary shortly after the warranty expired. In the EU they even made that into a (consumer) law which says a manufacturer has to pay part of the repairs which occur within the generally expected lifetime of a product.

Unless you illegally sneak it into Brazil without paying their insane taxes, I doubt $2000 is more than 40% of the scope price.

I dont know if Farnell 'sneaks' whith their products here, maybe you should ask them and tell us
And the price of a new one was also quoted by Keysight Brazil itself, if you read the complete thread. Are you saying Keysight ilegally sneaks with products here to avoid taxes? I doubt that.

I cannot find mentioning any scope prices in Brazil in this tread, only mentioning US Prices. Though there is farnell page about the shipping to Brazil http://www.newark.com/brazil-direct-ship

2- Impostos o que incide e como calcular?
Imposto de Importação: 60% do Valor Aduaneiro (Valor Aduaneiro = somatório do valor da mercadoria + frete)
ICMS: em média 18%, variando de acordo com o Estado

This scope was not bought at Farnell US. It was bought in Farnell Brazil but they closed down their operations here last year, as I said before.
Those import taxes are for the final consumer, not a company. Farnell and Keysight) are not final consumers, so these are not valid and are actually much lower, as someone also mentioned before. See the beauty of a forum? You always learn something new! 

Or you can call Keysight Brazil and talk To Roberta Michael, the same person I talked to who gave me the price of a new one including 5 years warranty and report back to us. At least she agreed that the repair price was a bit nonsense after I asked the price of a new unit 

[rsjsouza]

wraper, Farnell probably imported this product using the reduced rate of 5%, as specified in section 9030.20 of the official import tax table

[Augustus]

Can you give me a reference for that? I know about a law in the UK, but have never heard of anything similar for the EU. I can only find information about a 2-year guarantee period:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

I don't know if this is EU wide but at least in Germany there are two different types of "warranties" for consumers. There is the so called "Händlergewährleistung", towards the seller of the product, which usually is the distributor and not the manufacturer. The "Gewährleistung" period is 2 years in theory, but effectively only 6 months because starting with month 7 the purchaser is supposed to prove that any defect has its cause by a manufacturing fault, which usually isn't possible. During the first 6 months the seller has to prove that the defect wasn't a manufacturing fault, which is equally hard for him, so they usually just repair it or give you an new device without any hassle during the first 6 months. The "Gewährleistung" is by law and there is a bit of a grey area of what happens to it if a gadget gets repaired or replaced with a new unit. Usually, if it is repaired, the "Gewährleistung" period just keeps on going from the date of purchase of the original device. If it gets replaced by a brand new unit it starts again at zero for another 2 years.

And then there is the "Herstellergarantie", the manufacturers own warranty. This is optional and voluntary, there is no need for a manufacturer to offer any. If he offers an optional manufacturers warranty he is pretty free to lay out the terms of it to his own will (length of warranty, if it gets replaced with a new unit or repaired, who has to cover the shipping costs manufacturer or customer, what happens to the warranty if the unit gets repaired or replaced and so on). The terms of the manufacturers warranty (if any) have to be provided to the customer and they become part of an contract between the two parties. If the warranty is over, it's over. And if it's just one day past it, it's over. Of course, you usually get some "grace period", one month or maybe two, but this is really grace, you don't have any legal entitlement to it so you better play nice because what goes around, comes around and a little kindness goes a long way...

All AFAIK and AFAIR... 

[ebclr]

Logitech is a champion on customer service.

They gave many years warranty on mouse.

Just in a month before warranty ends, my mouse start to failing buttons, I called logitech from Brazil ( ringed in Europe ) they ask me what's is the problem, also a picture of the product and bar code, and a copy of the billing.

3 days I ;atter have a new mouse ( even a better model ) in my door without any charge.

What a great support, In my company logitech is now a preferential supplier.

This is the way to do business not the predatory Keisigth business, who have higher expenses handling a case and  not solving the case with a unhappy customer, than solving the case on a quick and easy way and have a live time customer

[wraper]

Logitech is a champion on customer service.

They gave many years warranty on mouse.

Just in a month before warranty ends, my mouse start to failing buttons, I called logitech from Brazil ( ringed in Europe ) they ask me what's is the problem, also a picture of the product and bar code, and a copy of the billing.

3 days I ;atter have a new mouse ( even a better model ) in my door without any charge.

What a great support, In my company logitech is now a preferential supplier.

What they shouldn't to is making cheap crap which is sold for big money as Logitech do. Their failing mouse buttons are just insanity. Yes I got a replacement for my 70 EUR mouse very easily. After sitting year in the package, switches were already not working well when taken out of the package (false double click), exactly like in replaced one. They have this double click switch issue for many years if not more than decade with most of the mouses they make.
And if it was 1 day after warranty have ended you won't get any replacement at all.

This is the way to do business not the predatory Keisigth business, who have higher expenses handling a case and  not solving the case with a unhappy customer, than solving the case on a quick and easy way and have a live time customer

What is so predatory? Not wanting to offer free repair after warranty have ended? Good luck asking Logitech to repair your mouse after the warranty had ended.