Author Topic: Old Fluke Multimeters  (Read 190841 times)

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Offline krivx

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #200 on: March 19, 2015, 11:21:58 pm »
3) The last digit does fluctuate on the 20V.   When I turn on the meter at the 20V selection connected to the D Cell (pretty confident the battery is 1.5620V based on my other meters) the 8060A/AA meter jumps to “-OL” then 1.574 after the display test and then immediately to 1.540, 1.548, 1.553 then it will count approximately 1 count per second 1.554, 1.555., etc until it reaches 1.560.  I noticed my second 8060 starts out the same way it just reaches the final value quicker.

4) The input jacks look good and I cleaned them with both WD-40 and then the Electronic cleaner.

Since it does eventually read the correct value after 5 – 10 seconds, could this be normal?

This has all the hallmarks of a contaminated PCB, assuming you have taken care of any leaking caps and made sure the power supplies are OK.  I do not like the sound of WD40 (or Radio Shack electronics cleaner, either) anywhere near the inside of this meter, it is very susceptible to developing leakage currents due to PCB contamination.  Dunk the whole thing in 91% or better IPA, scrub what you can get to with a brush, then allow to dry overnight.  A fan is a good thing.  I'd remove the MAC first, and make sure the socket is clean.  Scrub the MAC with IPA too.

When I repaired mine I had to replace electrolytics and the MAC socket. After cleaning the board I had a small residual reading with no leads, giving the MAC an IPA bath fixed it. Thanks for your article on a similar repair, it was very useful  :-+
 

Offline kwochele

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2015, 01:41:12 am »
lowimpedance / krivx,

I replaced the electrolytic capacitors but I did not see signs of leaking.   I checked U4 (pin3 to pin 5) and it was stable at -5.126 volts.

Interesting that you mention a dodgy socket as a possibility.  When I first received the meter the readings were off.  When I tried to calibrate VDC using R5 I could not get it to be repeatable.  I would set it then cycle power and the voltage reading would be all over the place again.   I took a shot and replaced the MAC from a donor 8060 and that seemed to correct the problem.  I set VDC using R5 to match my other Fluke and it has matched the second Fluke ever since.   What is interesting is that I have disassembled multiple Flukes and I always pull the chip, which up until this meter required a fair amount of effort.  The MAC on this meter can be easily pulled from the socket.

ModemHead / krivx,

A typically I do not admit to shopping at Radio Shack, however our local store was one of the ones closing and well I bought more than I should have.  I did not realize soaking the board in IPA was an option.  I will certainly do that as I noticed the Radio Shack electronic cleaner seems to leave a residue.   The WD40 is only for two areas; the on/off switch which is one of the reasons I pull the MAC and to remove corrosion on the inside of the  input jacks.  I try not to get any WD-40 on the main board.
 
For cleaning you are saying I can remove the MAC and soak the entire main board in IPA?

Thanks to everyone for their inputs.  Ken
 

Offline ModemHead

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2015, 02:49:56 am »
For cleaning you are saying I can remove the MAC and soak the entire main board in IPA?
I used to be squeamish about that but now I've done it so many times I don't worry about it anymore.  It doesn't seem to bother a thing, and often cures a number of ills.  The plastic cover on the muRata piezo will hold liquid, so blowing that out, along with the switches, with a duster can or compressed air is a good idea.  I always leave the board in front of a muffin fan for at least an hour or more for drying, overnight is better.

In case you haven't found it yet, you may want to read about my initial experience with an 8060A, especially the update at the very end.

The picture is a Fluke 8024B, but you get the idea.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2015, 04:49:35 am »
Since it does eventually read the correct value after 5 – 10 seconds, could this be normal?
Meters that take 5 to 10 seconds to settle on the correct range don't have a place in my household.   :--

I don't have my 8060A handy, but I recall it reads and settles on the correct value in probably 1 second.

The manual also say the same.
 

Offline krivx

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #204 on: March 20, 2015, 08:54:47 am »
lowimpedance / krivx,

I replaced the electrolytic capacitors but I did not see signs of leaking.   I checked U4 (pin3 to pin 5) and it was stable at -5.126 volts.

Interesting that you mention a dodgy socket as a possibility.  When I first received the meter the readings were off.  When I tried to calibrate VDC using R5 I could not get it to be repeatable.  I would set it then cycle power and the voltage reading would be all over the place again.   I took a shot and replaced the MAC from a donor 8060 and that seemed to correct the problem.  I set VDC using R5 to match my other Fluke and it has matched the second Fluke ever since.   What is interesting is that I have disassembled multiple Flukes and I always pull the chip, which up until this meter required a fair amount of effort.  The MAC on this meter can be easily pulled from the socket.

ModemHead / krivx,

A typically I do not admit to shopping at Radio Shack, however our local store was one of the ones closing and well I bought more than I should have.  I did not realize soaking the board in IPA was an option.  I will certainly do that as I noticed the Radio Shack electronic cleaner seems to leave a residue.   The WD40 is only for two areas; the on/off switch which is one of the reasons I pull the MAC and to remove corrosion on the inside of the  input jacks.  I try not to get any WD-40 on the main board.
 
For cleaning you are saying I can remove the MAC and soak the entire main board in IPA?

Thanks to everyone for their inputs.  Ken

My issue with the socket could be seen by eye, a few of the pins were corroded. This probably explained why I needed to clean the IC as well.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #205 on: April 25, 2015, 05:33:58 pm »
This was the first digital meter I ever owned.  Bought it new in the early 80s.   Blew it up at one point and was able to get the parts to repair it.   Blew it up again when probing the high voltage section of an old analog oscilloscope.   This one has the battery setup with the light bulb limiter.

Notice my hack on the U2 op-amp.    Paint dot was from replacing the analog part from the first time I damaged it.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Terry Lingle

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #206 on: May 27, 2015, 07:13:42 pm »
I have an 8060A that I bought new to replace my 8012A when I first saw it so it was probably one of the first in Western Canada. All of its life it has been my traveling service meter. It went in for calibration a few times over the years but i doubt if it ever was actually out of spec.
I finally had to replace it a couple of years ago   because the battery door latches failed and  it was not cat III certified which is a requirement where I work   (all 600 v Ac and 4160 feed in a wet environment)
To replace it I bought an 87vwhich is a nice meter but I much prefer the 8060A
I would like to get a battery door and the flip stand for it if any are available.

The case has Fluke Holland   made in Holland on it
The meters SN is 3836178.

I still have the original manual and errata sheet that came with it but since it was stored in the case I carried the meter in it is not pristine.
The case itself has had so much handling that the traction grooves on it as well as those on the power switch are worn away.

The 8012A  it replaced is still fully functional as well and used as my bench meter when repairing equipment.

I sure do like my fluke meters.
Terry

 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #207 on: May 28, 2015, 04:37:10 am »
Pulled a trigger on what looked like a mint condition 8062A. For giggles mainly, due to the funky controls and great history.

Feel like a hipster now. Speaking of which.

"How much does a hipster weight?


An instagram!"
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #208 on: May 28, 2015, 02:02:08 pm »
Q: How many hipsters does it take to change a light bulb?
A: It's an obscure number that you never heard of.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #209 on: May 28, 2015, 02:10:59 pm »
I use a Fluke 8810A that sits on a shelf above my work bench for normal troubleshooting.
I had another one, sitting below it, that was not powered on and became infested with ants (apparently attracted by the plastic housing).   That unit failed and I had to scrap it.
The remaining unit (which was powered on all that time) is still going strong.
Thereafter, I found Terro Ant Killer II (borax based) to be an effective method to keep ants away from the shelves, placing a few inch-square pieces of cardboard, each with a large drop, in strategic locations.  (Avoid food preparation areas.)
 

Offline Deckert

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #210 on: May 29, 2015, 08:52:53 am »
Anyway, here's my small collection of Fluke meters. Some a little out of cal on DC V apparently.

Fabulous collection! That Fluke 77 (series 1 and series 2) is fairly easy to re-cal. I made a short video of how I re-calibrated mine:


Much of my "training" came from MrModemHead's invaluable blog.

--deckert
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #211 on: June 03, 2015, 10:46:17 pm »
Just got my 8060A. Looks to be in good condition. Going to open it up this weekend and probably look at replacing the caps. I love the small form factor. Looks to be in calibration as well.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #212 on: June 03, 2015, 11:02:44 pm »
What a great thread! But kind of worrying - it started in Oct 2013, runs to 13 pages, and drtaylor's last post was in Oct 2014......
Not to worry, he's keeping an eye on us, last activity 31 May.
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Offline drtaylor

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #213 on: June 03, 2015, 11:32:44 pm »
DR Taylor here...still alive and kicking. I've been doing a lot of G-jobs as well as some of my own projects. Just haven't had anything to post. I apologize to all those I promised 8060 User Guides to. I still have a small stack. I was just too lazy and too cheap to figure out how to mail them outside of the USA. So I will try to get to that soon as several projects are winding down.

One thing I've been wanting to share, and I don't remember if I mentioned this before. One main reason the LCDs on 8060s have lasted so long was due to having a separate polarizer. Most of the older systems had laminated polarizers and when they delaminated they would quit polarizing, causing black spots. The other reason the 8060 LCDs have lasted so long is that the Sharp SM4 micro had a very well balanced multiplex scheme that truly achieved 0 volts average voltage. This has prevented plating of the indium which you also see quite commonly on old instruments, even Fluke instruments. Not to mention, I truly believe that Sharp made superior LCDs to the ones that Crystaloid and LXD were making at the time. So these comments are limited to the 8060A and 8062A. The other 80 series (the granddaddy being the 8020) can have bad LCDs as they age. Of course any LCD will fail if it is cracked or the glass delaminates. It's really sad that I lost my big box of 8060 parts.
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #214 on: June 04, 2015, 12:06:23 am »
Thanks for checking in with us DR Taylor! Having just received my 8060A and using it for the first time, I must say this is truly a fantastic piece of gear. It is pretty impressive considering it is still quite capable so many years later. Also I didn't expect it to be this compact, which is great, after I restore it I think I am going to use it on a daily basis.

Thank you for designing such a great instrument!
 

Offline wiss

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #215 on: June 04, 2015, 11:17:21 am »
I accidentally bought a old Keithley 130 a few months back. The display was all pitch black! I scraped of the soft stuff on the back of the glass and then the display got transparent. Now I'l sort of looking for a replacement polarizer/reflector...
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #216 on: June 04, 2015, 02:31:19 pm »
Just for future reference, I'll ad that the 70 series LCDs have a polarizing film over the glass that often fails.  It fails evenly, and the digits fade to brown then light brown.   Another forum member (sorry, I forget who) determined that the old polarizing film  could be scraped off and new polarizing film could be added.  He rotated the polarizer on his, and made a reverse digit meter. 


EDIT:  Here it is - it was "Sonicj." 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/recovery-of-an-old-fluke-8020a-with-a-bad-lcd/msg32059/#msg32059
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 03:26:32 pm by Excavatoree »
 

Offline ModemHead

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #217 on: June 04, 2015, 02:50:25 pm »
Just for future reference, I'll ad that the 70 series LCDs have a polarizing film over the glass that often fails.  It fails evenly, and the digits fade to brown then light brown.   Another forum member (sorry, I forget who) determined that the old polarizing film  could be scraped off and new polarizing film could be added.  He rotated the polarizer on his, and made a reverse digit meter.
I've tried that before on a 70-series LCD.  I think the post you refer to was what gave me the idea.  A razor-blade scraper will get the old polarizer off, and citrus solvent takes care of the adhesive residue.  Cut a new piece of polarizer film, (correctly oriented) and the display will be good as new.

P.S. @Deckert, thanks for the plug.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 02:52:55 pm by ModemHead »
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #218 on: June 25, 2015, 08:46:58 pm »
I've just bought a big pile of 8010A. Only tested a few so far and about half are fully working, and despite not having been cal'd in years are within a digit of each other.

Offline drtaylor

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #219 on: June 25, 2015, 10:04:48 pm »
KJDS, If you determine that the main converter IC is to blame for the 8010 units not working, I do have a few 429100 chips for replacement. They've been sitting in antistatic foam for 30 years, so who knows? I'd advise replacing the electrolytics, or at least a careful inspection to look for spew (highly technical term). For top performance a good washing in IPA can fix all kinds of problems. However, try to keep the alcohol out of the ganged switch assembly.
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2015, 10:39:59 pm »
KJDS, If you determine that the main converter IC is to blame for the 8010 units not working, I do have a few 429100 chips for replacement. They've been sitting in antistatic foam for 30 years, so who knows? I'd advise replacing the electrolytics, or at least a careful inspection to look for spew (highly technical term). For top performance a good washing in IPA can fix all kinds of problems. However, try to keep the alcohol out of the ganged switch assembly.

I'm cheating and giving away the non-working ones to those that buy a working unit.

Offline Deathwish

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2015, 11:20:13 pm »
KJDS, If you determine that the main converter IC is to blame for the 8010 units not working, I do have a few 429100 chips for replacement. They've been sitting in antistatic foam for 30 years, so who knows? I'd advise replacing the electrolytics, or at least a careful inspection to look for spew (highly technical term). For top performance a good washing in IPA can fix all kinds of problems. However, try to keep the alcohol out of the ganged switch assembly.

I'm cheating and giving away the non-working ones to those that buy a working unit.

oooh did I get one ?. better get some bits sorted then hadn't I......
Electrons are typically male, always looking for any hole to get into.
trying to strangle someone who talks out of their rectal cavity will fail, they can still breath.
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Offline DarthBubba

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #222 on: July 26, 2015, 12:19:35 am »
Greetings to All!  I learned of this place from Mr. Modemhead's web site, which seems inactive now.  I'd like to post a message here regarding my Fluke 8060A.  :-+

Given the BOM Mr. Modemhead generated (http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/) for the re-capping his 8060A in the context of Dr. Taylor’s EEVBlog (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/history-of-the-fluke-8020-series/msg325570/#msg325570) message, would it make sense to go ahead and replace all the caps Mr. Modemhead specified with tantalum devices of the same, or slightly higher voltage, rather than use current aluminum electrolytics (even though the new ones are superior to the original caps)? I too have one of the older 8060A meters, and could not locate caps 19, 24, & 28 until I dug out my owner’s manual and looked at the schematic that came with my meter. They don’t exist in the .PDFs available on the Fluke web site. Are there any other 32-year-old electrolytic caps that anyone would suggest changing out while I’m digging around in my 8060A’s guts?

Greetings to Dr. Taylor, who I only recently learned was one of my heroes (Had my 8060A since August of 1982)!

Thanks in advance
 

Offline vindoline

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #223 on: July 26, 2015, 02:28:14 am »
Welcome DarthBubba, I've repaired 4 8060A meters at this point. I replaced every aluminum electrolytic with modern 105 C rated parts of the same physical dimentions. I think I used Panasonic parts. It's amazing the amount of damage these spewing caps cause! Is your meter in working order, or does it need repair?
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #224 on: July 26, 2015, 02:35:51 am »
Greetings to All!  I learned of this place from Mr. Modemhead's web site, which seems inactive now.
As modemhead explains here

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/reality-check/

he is on the road a lot and doesn't have regular time now.

Quote
would it make sense to go ahead and replace all the caps Mr. Modemhead specified with tantalum devices of the same, or slightly higher voltage, rather than use current aluminum electrolytics (even though the new ones are superior to the original caps)?
Just use high quality Nichicon, Rubyon, United Chemicon or Panasonic aluminum electrolytic capacitors for replacements.  Replace all the old ones regardless if they test or look okay.  All the old ones will eventually leak.
 


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