Author Topic: Old Fluke Multimeters  (Read 229965 times)

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Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #375 on: August 11, 2017, 11:38:30 pm »
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #376 on: August 13, 2017, 09:20:49 pm »
My lab is all set up for a production line operation for 15 8060s and one 8062.

Would love to see some pics of your production line, Mr. T.

Please  :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 10:11:41 pm by switcher »
 

Offline drtaylor

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #377 on: August 14, 2017, 01:21:47 am »
Picture of prototype 8060A from my collection. You can see the MAC chip in a ceramic DIP with a glued on top, dated Jan 6 1983. The TRMS chip is in a socket. If I remember properly, I used this 8060A to test the TRMS chips for performance and consistency with the selected components.

Just to the left of the MAC chip, you can see a blue ceramic cap that is kludged with a long lead wire. In the lower left hand side you can see an LM334 and two kludged in resistors in place of the constant current diode that was and is the final design. I think I was experimenting with using more current than the FET based CC diode.

Also notable is one more Tantalum Caps than in the final design. You can see it just above the pot next to the TRMS chip. This is now a 100uF/6.3V Alum.  The tantalum cap next to the Piezo is a larger size than the final design.
 
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Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #378 on: August 14, 2017, 01:41:02 am »
Just speaking for myself, though I suspect I might find some agreement here, I think the design envelope is open again.  Should you see fit to make any...improvements...well, it IS your design.

No bean counters here!
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

Offline lowimpedance

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #379 on: August 14, 2017, 03:20:35 am »
Thanks for the pic. ,  the big question is ....... Are there any bodge wires on the bottom side ?.  :D

Just speaking for myself, though I suspect I might find some agreement here, I think the design envelope is open again.  Should you see fit to make any...improvements...well, it IS your design.

No bean counters here!
lol....

Although owners may also state that it has already reached perfection  :).

Just for the record I don't own one ........yet ............. ,  but seeing the shiny one of fungus's ......hmm  nice.
The odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........can't remember !.
 

Offline drtaylor

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #380 on: August 14, 2017, 06:48:41 am »
8V output in diode test mode.  :)
The diode test range uses a constant current diode (JFET based) to generate 1mA output. It has a 1V to 2V drop. It's connected directly to the battery plus which is why you are seeing 8V open circuit. It will not stay at 8V when loaded. The compliance voltage will also drop as the battery depletes. The diode test is limited to 2Vfs. Even though the 8060 will light most LEDs, if the LED has a Vf of >=2V at 1mA, the 8060 will indicate OL. Most of the older chemistry LEDs are close to 2V at only 1mA. But it will light even a blue/white LED, it just won't show the Vf. It might be an interesting modification to force the 8060 into the 20V range. Then you could do some matching. But I'd also want to provide 10~20mA which is appropriate for all small LEDs.
 
Thanks for the pic. ,  the big question is ....... Are there any bodge wires on the bottom side ?.  :D
Surprisingly no!

My lab is all set up for a production line operation for 15 8060s and one 8062.

Would love to see some pics of your production line, Mr. T.


Well, I shouldn't have called it a production line, but the attached picture shows a portion of my workbench where I am reworking the 8060s. Each unit has a dedicated box so I wouldn't mix them up (you can see more boxes stacked on some of my instruments). My Pace MBT100 does the hard work. My glass soaking tray on the right holds 3 8060s at a time. Bottles of pure IPA are seen to the right of the covered tray.

I use one of my functional 8060s seen on the left for continuity testing (the 8060A has one of the the fastest stretched continuity functions) to make sure that any found corrosion has not eaten a trace. I also use the 200nS range to track down leakage.

A pile of pulled caps is sitting there (yeah, I'm messy) but I was thinking about checking to see how the caps would read for value and leakage current and other cap parameters just to educate myself on what exactly a 35 year old cap does. The ones that were definitely leaking electrolyte...I know what they'll measure. I'm more interested in what caps with 35 year old electrolyte measure from a unit that was still functional. The new caps are in the Mouser bags.
 
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Offline lowimpedance

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #381 on: August 14, 2017, 07:03:25 am »
Messy !?! are you sure, that bench looks almost surgical. Nice setup BTW.  :-+.
Maybe some more pics over in the 'Show us your workbench' thread of the rest of bench, (if you want to of course).
The odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........can't remember !.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #382 on: August 14, 2017, 01:38:48 pm »
I've just been looking at the test points on my meter and it's all weird. I'm sure there's some mistakes in the manual.

Here's what I got (my readings in orange):



First of all, there's no TP1 in the diagram, and two TP8s.

On one of the TP8s I get 2.05V, which doesn't correspond to anything in the list and is a long way from the 3.15V mentioned.

On the other TP8 there's a square wave which switches between 2 and a bit volts (same voltage as the TP8 above?) and 5.3V  at 2.43 Hz (see screenshot).


« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 02:21:24 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline ModemHead

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #383 on: August 14, 2017, 02:51:13 pm »
I've just been looking at the test points on my meter and it's all weird. I'm sure there's some mistakes in the manual.
The downloadable manual is for the most recent models manufactured, with the RMS converter daughter board.  It seems to be a mix of old and new content.  Attached is a scan of an older hardcopy manual (Rev 3 1/88).  It may clear up some things.

Vdg (TP8) is -3.15V when measured with respect to Vdd (TP1 or TP7).

The slow square on TP6 is a convenient scope trigger for observing the integration/de-integration cycle at U3p17.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #384 on: August 14, 2017, 03:15:34 pm »
First of all, there's no TP1 in the diagram, and two TP8s.
The one to the right should read TP6 (notice the ordering, left to right: 9, 8, 7, 6)

Quote
On one of the TP8s I get 2.05V, which doesn't correspond to anything in the list and is a long way from the 3.15V mentioned.
It says "3.15V ref to VDD". 3.15+2.05=5.20

Quote
On the other TP8 there's a square wave which switches between 2 and a bit volts (same voltage as the TP8 above?) and 5.3V  at 2.43 Hz (see screenshot).
That is the TP6 ADC trigger, a square wave as indicated
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #385 on: August 14, 2017, 05:17:19 pm »
The coolest post on the forum, thankyou for sharing, Mr. T.  :-+


My lab is all set up for a production line operation for 15 8060s and one 8062.

Would love to see some pics of your production line, Mr. T.


Well, I shouldn't have called it a production line, but the attached picture shows a portion of my workbench where I am reworking the 8060s. Each unit has a dedicated box so I wouldn't mix them up (you can see more boxes stacked on some of my instruments). My Pace MBT100 does the hard work. My glass soaking tray on the right holds 3 8060s at a time. Bottles of pure IPA are seen to the right of the covered tray.

I use one of my functional 8060s seen on the left for continuity testing (the 8060A has one of the the fastest stretched continuity functions) to make sure that any found corrosion has not eaten a trace. I also use the 200nS range to track down leakage.

A pile of pulled caps is sitting there (yeah, I'm messy) but I was thinking about checking to see how the caps would read for value and leakage current and other cap parameters just to educate myself on what exactly a 35 year old cap does. The ones that were definitely leaking electrolyte...I know what they'll measure. I'm more interested in what caps with 35 year old electrolyte measure from a unit that was still functional. The new caps are in the Mouser bags.
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #386 on: August 14, 2017, 05:18:31 pm »
The second coolest post on the forum, thankyou again, Mr. T.  :-+

Picture of prototype 8060A from my collection. You can see the MAC chip in a ceramic DIP with a glued on top, dated Jan 6 1983. The TRMS chip is in a socket. If I remember properly, I used this 8060A to test the TRMS chips for performance and consistency with the selected components.

Just to the left of the MAC chip, you can see a blue ceramic cap that is kludged with a long lead wire. In the lower left hand side you can see an LM334 and two kludged in resistors in place of the constant current diode that was and is the final design. I think I was experimenting with using more current than the FET based CC diode.

Also notable is one more Tantalum Caps than in the final design. You can see it just above the pot next to the TRMS chip. This is now a 100uF/6.3V Alum.  The tantalum cap next to the Piezo is a larger size than the final design.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #387 on: August 14, 2017, 05:44:29 pm »
I've just been looking at the test points on my meter and it's all weird. I'm sure there's some mistakes in the manual.
The downloadable manual is for the most recent models manufactured, with the RMS converter daughter board.  It seems to be a mix of old and new content.  Attached is a scan of an older hardcopy manual (Rev 3 1/88).  It may clear up some things.

I was wondering about that "daughter board" (which I don't have). Thanks for clearing it up.

Vdg (TP8) is -3.15V when measured with respect to Vdd (TP1 or TP7).

The slow square on TP6 is a convenient scope trigger for observing the integration/de-integration cycle at U3p17.

OK, it's all more or less correct then. Meter seems to work perfectly.

I can't see any obvious capacitor spew yet but I should probably pluck up courage to have a go at them. I'll wait and see what DrT's final recommendations for types/values are.
 

Offline ModemHead

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #388 on: August 14, 2017, 06:45:22 pm »
I was wondering about that "daughter board" (which I don't have). Thanks for clearing it up.
I only have one unit with the daughter board, pictured here.  The device in the can is an AD636KH.

I can't see any obvious capacitor spew yet but I should probably pluck up courage to have a go at them. I'll wait and see what DrT's final recommendations for types/values are.
I've collected six of these and the serial number of all the ones I've seen capacitor damage on started with a "3".   "4" and up has been okay so far.  Not to say they won't spew their guts tomorrow though...
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #389 on: August 14, 2017, 06:52:10 pm »
I've collected six of these and the serial number of all the ones I've seen capacitor damage on started with a "3".   "4" and up has been okay so far.

Mine is 492xxx that's nearly a 5!

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #390 on: August 14, 2017, 07:46:58 pm »
I was wondering about that "daughter board" (which I don't have). Thanks for clearing it up.
I only have one unit with the daughter board, pictured here.  The device in the can is an AD636KH.

Out of interest: Could you tell us the serial number/date/revision of that one?

(for the archives :) )
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 08:20:33 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline ModemHead

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #391 on: August 14, 2017, 08:52:57 pm »
Out of interest: Could you tell us the serial number/date/revision of that one?
Well, I'm not 100% sure about the serial number...  It does not have the number etched into the plastic like others.  There is however a cal sticker from the previous owner that says S/N: 7613xxxx, which I guess is the Fluke S/N.

The board is 8060A-3001 REV N.  There is also a handwritten "100" under the MAC.  Curiously, the PC artwork still includes the footprint of the old RMS converter components.  The daughter board is just staked in with 0.025" posts.
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #392 on: August 14, 2017, 11:52:53 pm »
I've collected six of these and the serial number of all the ones I've seen capacitor damage on started with a "3".   "4" and up has been okay so far.

Mine is 492xxx that's nearly a 5!

I wouldn't hit the casino tables with that hope, especially if the caps are some generic brand from way back   

Even if they haven't leaked, or have and been cleaned up, they may be dry by now or just over it and exhibit suspect MFs

I wonder if these meters can survive an in circuit ESR test at 100khz or perhaps lower, without crashing anything on board ?   :-//






 

Offline yo0

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #393 on: August 16, 2017, 03:43:03 am »
i have two near mint 8060a, one made in USA serial 595xxxx and one made in Mexico with serial 970xxxx, none have leaked caps, the USA one has no mark soft green caps and Mexico one has black nippon-chemicon, none have daughter board.

best regards.

Pio
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 12:41:31 am by yo0 »
 
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Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #394 on: August 16, 2017, 03:39:25 pm »
one made in Mexico with serial 974xxxx,
Hmm, I discoverd that some Fluke 70s were made in China as per

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/i-thought-all-fluke-70-series-were-made-in-usa/

but this is the first time I heard Fluke made in Mexico.

Can you post of picture of the back please?
 

Offline yo0

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #395 on: August 17, 2017, 12:29:53 am »
one made in Mexico with serial 974xxxx,
Hmm, I discoverd that some Fluke 70s were made in China as per

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/i-thought-all-fluke-70-series-were-made-in-usa/

but this is the first time I heard Fluke made in Mexico.

Can you post of picture of the back please?

ok!  :)

best regards

Pio


« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 12:34:07 am by yo0 »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #396 on: August 17, 2017, 01:23:45 pm »
Disaster!

I was putting the lid back on the meter and one of the screw posts broke off. I was being as gentle as I could, etc., but I guess the plastic is getting old and I don't know what previous owner-gorillas have done to it in the past.

On careful inspection I also noticed a crack in the other screw post down near the bottom.

I don't think the one near the bottom is going anywhere because it's pressed between the input jacks. The one at the top, though? It's gone.

I has a sad.  :(

What now? Epoxy?


 

Offline bd139

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #397 on: August 17, 2017, 01:44:47 pm »
That's a bummer. My 8021 did that.

Epoxy worked for me.
 

Offline drtaylor

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #398 on: August 17, 2017, 04:02:34 pm »
Speaking of 8060s and other Fluke DMMs made places other than Everett Washington...I recall that Fluke received State Department permission to set up an 8060 production line in Red China (that's what everyone called it then). Has anyone ever found an 8060 built in China? We know about meters made in Tilburg Netherlands for the European Market, the Mexican ones were a surprise to me, but what happened to the Chinese ones?

BTW, just to put it to rest again - There is absolutely no difference between the IBM 8060s and the standard 8060 except for the case color, the front label, and the User Guide color. I have a copy of the order from IBM for 10000 units of the IBM 8060. I don't think they ever bought more after that original order, but I suppose it's possible. The delivery was scheduled over some time period, so they didn't get them all at once. Fluke couldn't have produced them that fast.
 

Offline WastelandTek

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #399 on: August 17, 2017, 04:24:55 pm »
Disaster!

I was putting the lid back on the meter and one of the screw posts broke off. I was being as gentle as I could, etc., but I guess the plastic is getting old and I don't know what previous owner-gorillas have done to it in the past.

On careful inspection I also noticed a crack in the other screw post down near the bottom.

I don't think the one near the bottom is going anywhere because it's pressed between the input jacks. The one at the top, though? It's gone.

I has a sad.  :(

What now? Epoxy?





What I would do in this situation is get the Dremel out with a tiny round die grinder tip and rough up the surface around the break, being careful not to mar the actual broken surface.  I would use cyanoacrilate to stick the part back on, then bury the whole roughed up area with JB-weld
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 


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