Author Topic: Old Fluke Multimeters  (Read 229369 times)

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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #425 on: August 26, 2017, 07:31:58 am »
NO AC volts function. I have a couple days to return it. But I would like to know if say an ac coupling cap could cause this. I was planning to recap anyway.

Have you given the switch a good workout? Check the switch works with a continuity tester.

Can a bad fuseable protection device cause only a no AC problem?

The schematic shows two fusible resistors but they wouldn't affect only the AC range.

Maybe it's the TRMS converter. Get your oscilloscope out and have a look at the signals on S3B and S3D (Switch 3, contacts B+D). See manual/schematic for details.

(Isn't it nice having a proper manual?)


Recapping an 8060A:

(I apologize for the long length of this post and perhaps too much detail here. But not everyone doing this has your years of experience. Use good ESD practices.)

It'll be my first time.  :)

Digikey wants $19 shipping for $8 of caps (the joys of not living in the USA) so I'm looking at other things that probably need recapping, too. Might as well order stuff in batches.

It's also a good excuse to finally get a hot air gun. Nothing fancy - I don't sit all day doing rework or SMD PCBs.

I can't see any visible corrosion or 'spewage' in my capacitors so I figure a few more weeks won't hurt.

Edit: I think I'm going to need a bigger bottle of IPA...  :scared:
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 10:58:17 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #426 on: August 26, 2017, 08:09:03 am »
I like my 8060A. It's my new favorite meter. I like the way it works, I think I prefer the side switches to dials.

Here's some pics of it measuring things on my little home-made reference box. This is untweaked, exactly how it arrived from eBay.

I need to add some more voltage ranges to my box. I need something around 1V and something around 190mV to give the 8060A a proper workout.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 09:13:17 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #427 on: August 26, 2017, 09:04:30 am »
Perhaps this issue needs a separate post elsewhere, to keep things here more On Topic   :)

Maybe you could start your very own "Electro Detective's Rants" thread.   8)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 09:12:09 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #428 on: August 26, 2017, 09:45:28 am »
Perhaps this issue needs a separate post elsewhere, to keep things here more On Topic   :)

Maybe you could start your very own "Electro Detective's Rants" thread.   8)

That's too much thunder and views to jack from the members   ;D

Then again, some of these company reps that lurk here might take note, buckle up and get into some prodding back at HQ to lift their game
and supply some TRULY ROBUST professional field tech and lab products, that customers old and new might consider worth paying big dollars for, 

if their CEOs ever get woken up, unglued and airlifted from their chairs, (take a break from strenuous line work and custom massages) to work out why they get paid too much,
and make an effort to justify it.

Someone pinch me, this dream is going nowhere fast   :-[





 

 



 

Offline jh15

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #429 on: August 26, 2017, 04:10:24 pm »
Thanks, Fungus.

All the switches are solid, no scratchyness. I also did all the self tests including the switch tests. All ok according to table. Not sure how thorough that is.

I don't want to lose my chance of returning it. I wrote the seller last night asking if I could poke around inside, but haven't heard from him yet.

Further pondering of schematic tells me the cap replacement list would not be related to the trms area anyway.

The ac coupling cap on the input is unlikely to be bad.

Bummer, I thought I'd be able to use it this weekend in DB mode to work on broadcast and recording studio upgrades.

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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #430 on: August 26, 2017, 05:02:25 pm »
Thanks, Fungus.

All the switches are solid, no scratchyness. I also did all the self tests including the switch tests. All ok according to table. Not sure how thorough that is.

The self-test isn't a complete test. Each switch has multiple pairs of contacts on it, I don't think it can test all of them.

I don't want to lose my chance of returning it. I wrote the seller last night asking if I could poke around inside, but haven't heard from him yet.

If it was described as working and the AC is completely dead then you have a reason to send it back. You won't have much trouble getting another one if you live in the USA.

If it was described as "as-is" then get your screwdriver out.

Further pondering of schematic tells me the cap replacement list would not be related to the trms area anyway.

The ac coupling cap on the input is unlikely to be bad.

I've read of several cases where caps have leaked and corroded other traces on the PCB. If you've read this thread then you know Dr.T mentions this problem frequently.

Bummer, I thought I'd be able to use it this weekend in DB mode to work on broadcast and recording studio upgrades.

That is what it was designed to be good at.  :)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 05:51:45 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #431 on: August 26, 2017, 05:25:16 pm »
NO AC volts function.
If you can't return it or decide to keep it, my 8060A arrived with bad, but not obviously bulged visible caps.  They spewed from the bottom and some electrolyte managed to wick its way up the AC calibration pot.  A couple of turns full left and full right got my AC working.  Obviously, you may have a different problem, but something worth considering?

BTW, the 8060A manual suggests

Switches S3D, S3B
Check power supply connections

J13 Vss
J7 Com
J12 Vdd
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #432 on: August 26, 2017, 09:58:08 pm »
BTW, the 8060A manual suggests

Switches S3D, S3B
Check power supply connections

J13 Vss
J7 Com
J12 Vdd

Yes, I posted that above.  :)

The trick is that all the switch's contacts are exposed on the top of the switches. It makes it really easy to poke at the circuitry and see what's going on.

 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #433 on: August 27, 2017, 04:01:37 pm »
Many thanks to Mr. Taylor for the generous postings here   :clap: :clap:

Everyone here realises the plastic post screw casing fiasco isn't on him,

nor is it an exclusive Fluke thing, despite it still going on!    :palm:

Here's one of my Fluke 87Vs that I opened recently for the first time to give it a check and borrow it's fuse to test another meter   

As I unscrewed I felt/heard a crack type sound, and assumed it was the self tapping screw binding on the post.  :-//

Upon close inspection...well, a picture is like a thousand words 


i.e. the sucker was spot welded to the post, so of course any normal force to unscrew it, cracked the post!

I'm past ranting about this stuff, the manufacturers charging big dollars and boasting CAT Rated explosive containment that isn't better than many $6.99 One Hung TuLo meters,

need to get their act into gear ASAP.


Perhaps this issue needs a separate post elsewhere, to keep things here more On Topic   :)
Why did the post crack exactly? I don't quite get the gist of the spot welding remark.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #434 on: August 27, 2017, 04:46:05 pm »
Why did the post crack exactly? I don't quite get the gist of the spot welding remark.

I guess Electro Detective was saying, that the screw bonded e.g. "spot welded" with the screw post, thus needing excessive (in regard to pure stick/slip friction between metal and plastic) force to loosen the connection.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #435 on: August 27, 2017, 05:06:17 pm »
Why did the post crack exactly? I don't quite get the gist of the spot welding remark.

I guess Electro Detective was saying, that the screw bonded e.g. "spot welded" with the screw post, thus needing excessive (in regard to pure stick/slip friction between metal and plastic) force to loosen the connection.
Ah. I wonder what could be done to mitigate the issue. Cracking your hundreds of dollars costing device is never a lot of fun. Maybe some light penetrating oil might help, or vibrating the screw while trying to unscrew it?

So much innuendo.
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #436 on: August 27, 2017, 09:46:48 pm »
I had the perfect job for my 8060 today; to which no other meter is better suited; in conjunction with my HP signal generator (from 1970) checking the crossovers and drive units in my B&W speakers.  :-+
 
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Offline jh15

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #437 on: August 28, 2017, 02:59:41 am »
Haven't heard a reply from the seller of my 8060a.  He said to contact within 3 days to work stuff out in his ad. I did, so will wait. Also 30 day return with me paying shipping.

Still willing to open and t-shoot.

Fully qualified for this with esd station, and pedigree of Lead Tech with technicians repairing Flukes in aerospace and avionics instrument repair labs. 
tek 575 curve tracer top shape, 535 top shape, 465. 545 Hickok clone, Tesla Model S,  Ohio Scientific c24P single board computer, many c-64 from my club days, Giant electric bicycle, Rigol stuff, Heathkit AR-15 receivers, Heathkit et 3400a trainer and interface,
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #438 on: August 28, 2017, 03:57:47 pm »
I have encountered those problem occasionally, but never on a meter that was owned by me from first hand.

Being careful is always a considerable option. On the other hand I can not deny that self-tapping screws are usually a sign for cheaply made products. Even the Voltcraft 6010 made in Korea by Hung Chang (rebranded HC601) has brass inserts.

Remember that Fluke pioneered the handheld LCD DMM with the release of the 8020. The 8060s case was derived from that and the means of screwing the halves together was developed for the 8020 and its derivatives. This type of plastic does get more brittle over time, but for the most part, the self-tapping (designed for plastic) screw sheathes have held up fine. Brass inserts are no panacea as I have seen them pulled out or actually break the plastic they are swedged into. I never over tighten the mounting screws and never use an electric screwdriver to put them in. BTW, I would not lube the screws, just be careful.

In my experience I confirm what David is saying: despite self tapping screws fare a bit worse, brass inserts have their problems as well. I lost count of so many times a screw on a brass insert was simply "stuck" due to corrosion that caused the plastic post to give up. Self tapping screws are not inert to this (one of my 8020As has mildly corroded screws which cause additional friction), but my experience tells me how brittle the plastic gets over time is the most defining factor on this.
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #439 on: August 28, 2017, 05:52:48 pm »
Can anyone tell me what thermoplastic the newer Fluke multimeters are made out of? I was looking for recycling info markings on a lot of teardown photos, but could not find anything useful :/ I have seen a whole lot of different Fluke tools in ABS injection molded housings though. I expect quality tools to feature quality materials such as glass fiber reinforced PA6, PC or something comparable instead of cheap-arse ABS.
Back in the day, there were not that many options to choose from, but that is so much different now.
Regarding brass inserts: If done right, they do a tremendous job. However molding them in ABS is still just a half-baked solution.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #440 on: August 29, 2017, 04:22:15 am »
Why did the post crack exactly? I don't quite get the gist of the spot welding remark.

I guess Electro Detective was saying, that the screw bonded e.g. "spot welded" with the screw post, thus needing excessive (in regard to pure stick/slip friction between metal and plastic) force to loosen the connection.


Perfect guess   :clap: 

I would bet with confidence that many Fluke owners here would find the same crack fiasco in one form or another in their meters too

The cracks will happen no matter how careful you are unscrewing, screwing, pre-lubing, heating, praying yours came from Wednesday batch, whatever... 

The issue is in the too -hard basket- even for genies, wizards, witches and the horned dude below    >:D

Fluke need to supply all owners with updated front covers that have proper CAT containment metal inserts and screw kits

Otherwise the hyped Fluke will blow out just as fast as any $6.99 Hung Too Lo meter in the hands of a DIYtard

My money is on the $6.99 HTL meter posts to hold up better during The BIG BANG   ;D




« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 10:27:28 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #441 on: August 29, 2017, 08:18:59 pm »
Anybody want a blue one?  :popcorn:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162649858342


This one appears to have no serial number on the back.  Is it one of the pre-production units? :-//

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162648532644

Edit: The pixels where the serial number should be are slightly discolored. I wonder if the seller photoshopped it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 08:25:46 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline switcher

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #442 on: August 29, 2017, 09:27:41 pm »
This one is a very late model, note how you have to remove the lower case screw to access the battery compartment.

This one appears to have no serial number on the back.  Is it one of the pre-production units? :-//

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162648532644

Edit: The pixels where the serial number should be are slightly discolored. I wonder if the seller photoshopped it.
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #443 on: August 29, 2017, 10:40:47 pm »

The issue is in the too -hard basket- even for genies, wizards, witches and the horned dude below    >:D


What? I have been cheated again! The all-in-one DevilDriver(TM) which I aquired at the price of one puny human soul will not handle this? Good it wasn't mine - succubus took it long ago - or the MI complex.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #444 on: August 30, 2017, 03:20:38 pm »
Anybody want a blue one?  :popcorn:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162649858342

Too late, it's gone!

(Was it somebody from here...?)


« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 04:32:57 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #445 on: August 31, 2017, 12:06:09 am »
That nice grey/gray/non-blue one is still on offer    http://www.ebay.com/itm/162648532644 

What's everyone waiting for?  a suspect one from an Ebayer playing dumb  :-//   ('powers up' BS)  that's more expensive,
so you can blow a weekend to troubleshoot, clean, recap, rebuild.. praying the MAC isn't nuked at the end of the ordeal?    |O 

If it was local to me I'd snap it up in a heartbeat, two 8060As have to be better than one, and keep each other company if I'm not there   8) 


The real clincher to buy is the 8060A is a  Pre-Cancer model  afaik   :phew:   

eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-causes-cancer


Just don't eat or smoke it or try use it as a sack toy and you'll do ok   :-+

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 12:13:11 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #446 on: August 31, 2017, 01:34:28 am »
Just don't eat or smoke it [...] and you'll do ok   :-+

Try, I shall. ;D
I TEA.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #447 on: August 31, 2017, 08:33:39 am »
That nice grey/gray/non-blue one is still on offer    http://www.ebay.com/itm/162648532644 

There's really no shortage of them on eBay.

One went a couple of weeks ago for $66, new in box with everything. Serial number in the 400s so probably a good one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/232447297288

I watched it go with great sadness because I live in Europe so I get to pay $50 for shipping plus another $40 import tax, and ... I'd already bought an 8060A two weeks before that.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 09:51:45 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #448 on: August 31, 2017, 09:38:07 am »
It must be a lucky week, I just scored one locally and it looks like it was either owned by a heavy smoker (now one with the Earth / final smoko) 

or Bruce Banner's personal meter, because the grey/gray has turned GREEN  :o

I'm not one to gas about test equipment eye candy, though it does have a cool vintage 'Camo' vibe to it,
bought it because the display is bright and contrasty, and everything appears to work fine and in spec.


I'll pull it apart asap and see if there's any homework to do on it..

It was covered in CAL stickers, so I am optimistic that someone else has already performed the 'classic resto' honors   :clap:


Update: it's a Revision J,
no name caps but not leaking or obese,
very clean board (cleaner now, with cotton bud and IPA)
nuked battery compartment a mess, all good now.
on off switch seized up, after one careful drop of Servisol in the right spot, now works like new (maybe better!) 
Original internal HRC 3A fuse is ok, and has an inline quality ceramic 2A British style (RS badged) fast blow 'user replaceable' fuse in the battery compartment, instead of the glass ones I expect  :-+ 
I suspect this Fluke may be a UK model because the 2A British style fuse slots in perfectly.  :-//

Here's the killer:
Dust balls in 2 switches at the exposed open end inside the meter, spotted by..fluke!  unbelievable!  had to pick them out with a tiny bent pin, go figure.. 
I reckon this may be why the meter was sold off cheap, intermittent connections perhaps?  :-//

Anyway, this classic meter in a quick shootout with a recent CAL 87V in High Res Mode agree on everything to the last digit, including fluctuating 240 volt mains and insulation tests, uncanny  :o 

I'll compare it with my other 8060A asap as an exercise in futility    ;D

« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:27:10 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #449 on: August 31, 2017, 05:30:45 pm »
One went a couple of weeks ago for $66, new in box with everything. Serial number in the 400s so probably a good one.

It appears to even have its original battery (thankfully not installed). Amazing.
I TEA.
 


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