Author Topic: Old Fluke Multimeters  (Read 229385 times)

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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #475 on: September 26, 2017, 10:50:38 am »
Some issues of the manual did contain misprints. But I think you are right that it was intended to have 500V peak protection on Ohms, as that was advertised.



The copy you can download from fluke.com does say 300V

Looks like they changed the maximums to 300V all through the manual. I smell lawyers.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 10:52:23 am by Fungus »
 

Offline yo0

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #476 on: September 27, 2017, 02:44:34 am »
hello, anybody have a picture of the 300v version of the 8060a? i never have seen any. unless the exterior labels be the same in both 1000v and 300v (i doubt it), if yes how to know which is which?

In 1990, the "CAT standards" (Measurement Categories per IEC 61010-1) for meters were released. The Fluke 8060A can only withstand 300V on its resistance ranges, so it can only meet CAT I 300V. To qualify for a "CAT I" label, the voltage ranges were reduced to 300V for both DC and AC. Otherwise, I don't think the meter was changed: it is no safer than the unmodified 8060A.

It can be recognized by two differences from the normal model: the presence of "CAT I" below and to the right of the red jack, and the highest voltage range is marked "300V \$ \simeq \$ " instead of the normal "1000V DC / 750V AC". In addition, the maximal voltage limits printed underneath the jacks are lower (300V MAX from common to earth instead of 500V, and 300V \$ \simeq \$ from red to common instead of 1000V DC / 750V AC MAX).

Here's a picture: https://cache.osta.ee/iv2/auctions/1_9_30853067.jpg



thank you very much for the info!


best regards.



Pio
 

Online med6753

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #477 on: September 30, 2017, 04:35:10 pm »
Seems old Fluke bench multimeters are somewhat under represented in this thread so let me contribute. Top to bottom:

8600A
8000A
8010A
8050A

And just peeking in lower left...

8021A
1st generation 87.
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #478 on: October 27, 2017, 07:14:49 pm »
So today I got my first (and most likely last) "new" Fluke DMMs.
I bought two defective units - a 76 and a 79-II - for dirt cheap via small ads.

/* minirant
Since all my other Fluke meters are 8020B, 8060A (8050A bench DMM) and the like, I was really shocked at how shitty the 7X meters are built. How could anyone actually pay real money for these things?
I guess they are good in terms of accuracy, but every other aspect is such a turn-off for me.
*/

I could revive the 79-II without any problems (LCD needed replacement, fuses missing, case and front label are pretty scuffed, everything else seems fine).
The 76 has a case in near mint condition (sadly not easily interchangeable with the 79 case), apart from that the meter is dead ATM. Someone started rebuilding some broken traces and I might just keep it to salvage parts instead of figuring out everything wrong with this thing.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 07:29:26 pm by frozenfrogz »
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #479 on: October 27, 2017, 08:21:57 pm »
Someone started rebuilding some broken traces ...

 :scared:

 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #480 on: October 27, 2017, 08:49:04 pm »
It’s not in the power section though :)
There seems to have been some minor liquid intrusion that lead to disintegration of some traces. The general board quality is absolutely below grade - at least for what I would have expected from a professional 1990s made measurement device.
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #481 on: March 13, 2018, 12:43:48 pm »
Another 80xx meter has landed :) This time it is an 8024A.

What’s odd to me: The fuse holder is stuck on the back of the battery connector. Also it is only for a 2A 250V 5x20mm glass fuse (AGX-2).
The assembly is made out of riveted card board. There are also no rubber feet on the back.
Am I correct in guessing this meter is pre 1980s?

Would you be interested in tear down pictures?
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #482 on: March 13, 2018, 02:47:36 pm »
Would you be interested in tear down pictures?

What do you think?
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #483 on: March 13, 2018, 03:58:49 pm »
Another 80xx meter has landed :) This time it is an 8024A.

What’s odd to me: The fuse holder is stuck on the back of the battery connector. Also it is only for a 2A 250V 5x20mm glass fuse (AGX-2).
The assembly is made out of riveted card board. There are also no rubber feet on the back.
Am I correct in guessing this meter is pre 1980s?

Would you be interested in tear down pictures?
The design was done mid to late 1970s - that is how they rolled back then...  8)

The earlier 8020A/8022A/8024A family of portable Flukes usually had a single 2A fuse tied to the battery - the road to CAT ratings was still being paved.

The later "B" revisions of these meters replaced it with an HRC 3A fuse inside the meter.

The 8024A/8024B/8060A/8062A had two fuses: the glass and the HRC. 

Modemhead's excellent teardown of an 8020B
This 8024B teardown from the user Spawn has pictures missing from the server (expired account). I'll ask him if they can be re-posted.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 08:18:00 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #484 on: March 13, 2018, 06:03:22 pm »
The earlier 8020A/8022A/8024A family of portable Flukes usually had a single 2A fuse tied to the battery - the road to CAT ratings was still being paved.

The later "B" revisions of these meters replaced it with an HRC 3A fuse inside the meter.

[...]
This 8024B teardown from the user Spawn has pictures missing from the server (expired account). I'll ask him if they can be re-posted.

Thanks for the info :) Funny enough, the copy of the 8024A manual I found features the same HRC + glass fuse configuration as the 8020B, 8060A you mentioned.

Given that the pictures are not accessible any more and me liking to take some photos, I will write a small article with pictures.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 06:16:24 pm by frozenfrogz »
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #485 on: March 13, 2018, 08:15:28 pm »
The earlier 8020A/8022A/8024A family of portable Flukes usually had a single 2A fuse tied to the battery - the road to CAT ratings was still being paved.

The later "B" revisions of these meters replaced it with an HRC 3A fuse inside the meter.

[...]
This 8024B teardown from the user Spawn has pictures missing from the server (expired account). I'll ask him if they can be re-posted.

Thanks for the info :) Funny enough, the copy of the 8024A manual I found features the same HRC + glass fuse configuration as the 8020B, 8060A you mentioned.

Given that the pictures are not accessible any more and me liking to take some photos, I will write a small article with pictures.
You are absolutely right; my list above should not include the 8024A.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #486 on: March 13, 2018, 09:43:45 pm »
Thanks for the info :) Funny enough, the copy of the 8024A manual I found features the same HRC + glass fuse configuration as the 8020B, 8060A you mentioned.

Yes, it was common to have a small glass fuse to protect the big expensive fuse from stupid (and costly) mistakes. I've got a fluke from the 1980s that does it.

I wonder why they don't still do this, it makes a lot of sense to me.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #487 on: March 13, 2018, 10:10:33 pm »
Yes, it was common to have a small glass fuse to protect the big expensive fuse from stupid (and costly) mistakes. I've got a fluke from the 1980s that does it.

I wonder why they don't still do this, it makes a lot of sense to me.

Both, my 8060A and 8020B have this configuration. The 8024A however has only the glass fuse. From the dates on the ICs, mine is from 1979/1980. The fuse configuration seems to have been changed on the later 8024As as well, since that is what the manual shows.
I took some photos and will put them on my imgur to share with y’all.
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Offline EE-digger

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #488 on: March 15, 2018, 01:12:15 am »
My old 8060A is still my favorite handheld DMM.  Bought it new around 28 years ago.

But this little baby has a special place in my heart.  The last time I used it I was working on a TEC cooled laser and wanted to read temperature from the onboard thermistor.  I just programmed in the Steinhart and Hart equation for the thermistor and voila, instant temperature readings !

The 8860A is fully programmable from the keypad in the image.  Sort of reverse polish, it's been a few years since I used it.

This was a good unit but a few years after I got it, I lost one of the primary windings.  As far as I recall, I was able to re-wire the other half of the primary winding.  Also had to poke around and replace 1 or 2 regulators.  I believe the PCB was fairly well labeled which was a huge help, without a schematic.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:37:56 am by EE-digger »
 
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #489 on: March 15, 2018, 07:17:57 am »
My old 8060A is still my favorite handheld DMM.  Bought it new around 28 years ago.

Congrats, that is one nice meter! :clap:
Here is a link to the service manual and schematics for this beauty: https://elektrotanya.com/fluke_8860a_sm.zip/download.html

You need to wait about 30 seconds until the ...processing... on the bottom of the page changes to a direct download link.
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #490 on: March 15, 2018, 05:08:29 pm »
Here is an imgur Album of my 8024A :)

Also, some quick snapshots of the 8020B, 8024A and 8060A agreeing on some mV, V and mA values.

Here are various forward voltage readings of my meters in diode test mode, figures in brackets are taken with my 8060A in series to measure testing current - except 8060A in series with 8050A:

Diode: 1N4007

8020B: 0.680 V (0.805 V, 0.8069 mA)
8024A: 0.853 V (0.975 V, 0.6367 mA)
8060A: 0.5797 V (0.6781 V, 0.9748 mA)
8050A: 0.6421 V (0.7583 V, 0.8702 mA)
79SeriesII: 0.552 V (0.607 V, 0.6041 mA)
UT139C: 0.587 V (0.683, 1.0061 mA)
HC601: 0.794 V (0.915 V, 0.6854 mA)
VC6010: 0.746 V (0.867 V, 0.7355 mA)

Can you calibrate this separately in the meters or is it just depending on the overall V / A calibration?

Pictures: ca. 190 mV, 18.8 V, 18 mA, 88.8 mA from Oltronix B703DT
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 05:10:22 pm by frozenfrogz »
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Offline EE-digger

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #491 on: March 15, 2018, 11:47:32 pm »
Thank you so much !  I didn't even realize produced manuals like that.  This will keep it going another 30 years or more  :-+
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #492 on: March 16, 2018, 12:06:07 am »
Here are various forward voltage readings of my meters in diode test mode, figures in brackets are taken with my 8060A in series to measure testing current - except 8060A in series with 8050A:

Diode: 1N4007

8020B: 0.680 V (0.805 V, 0.8069 mA)
8024A: 0.853 V (0.975 V, 0.6367 mA)
8060A: 0.5797 V (0.6781 V, 0.9748 mA)
8050A: 0.6421 V (0.7583 V, 0.8702 mA)
79SeriesII: 0.552 V (0.607 V, 0.6041 mA)
UT139C: 0.587 V (0.683, 1.0061 mA)
HC601: 0.794 V (0.915 V, 0.6854 mA)
VC6010: 0.746 V (0.867 V, 0.7355 mA)

Can you calibrate this separately in the meters or is it just depending on the overall V / A calibration?

:wtf:
Fuh, that is some serious spread. I think It would be a good approach to take a comparison measurement with a resistor too, and then to separate the errors of the current source and the reading.
But I do not like at all what you found.
Will do some measurements too when time allows.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #493 on: March 16, 2018, 12:51:29 am »
They seem to be roughly proportional to the test current, which is no big surprise. For actually characterizing semiconductor junctions (and not just verifying if they are short/good/open) you need a curve tracer.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #494 on: March 16, 2018, 01:15:19 pm »
Measurements on VEB decade resistance boxes 0.1\$\Omega\$, 100\$\Omega\$, 10 k\$\Omega\$ and 100 k\$\Omega\$, test leads shorted measure: 0.05\$\Omega\$

DMM Model1 x 0.1\$\Omega\$ 1 x 100\$\Omega\$ 1 x 10 k\$\Omega\$ 10 x 10 k\$\Omega\$
UT139C000.1/.0099.910.00k100.0k
8060A0.10/.0999.9710.004k1000.06k
8050A00.1099.9810.007k100.08k
8024A00.1/.299.8/.910.00k100.1k
8020B00.1/.2100.010.00k100.1k
79II00.10100.010.01k100.1k
HC60100.199.810.00k99.9k
VC601000.1/.299.7/.810.01k100.1k

DMMs in the most suitable measuring range available, 79II with calibrated 40\$\Omega\$range for 0.1\$\Omega\$measurement. 8050A and 8060A in relative mode to shorted leads

Edit: /.value indicates the meter alternating on two values.

OT: Formatting around that fugly »ohms« symbol is a pain in the b :/
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 01:25:30 pm by frozenfrogz »
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Offline TechieTX

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #495 on: April 03, 2018, 01:13:38 am »
Testament to Dr. Taylor's work: I have a D800 (the 8020a but without the conductance range marked, although it works...)  It's been in constant use since I bought it in late 1980.  It's still within cal, as far as I've tested with precision voltage & resistance.  None of the caps have started to leak on this 37 year old DMM.  The display has been dodgy for the last 10 years, but it's still usable AND used.  It's only wart is a 0.2" cracked corner on the upper housing from when it took a swan dive off of a 30' roof onto a concrete sidewalk.  I'd like to see any of the Chinese clones beat that longevity.

Yeah, I know I should tear it down and replace the electrolytics, but I'd rather keep it pristine and retire it gracefully when it eventually meets it's end.
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Offline mqsaharan

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #496 on: April 13, 2018, 10:56:33 am »
@drtylor
Thank you for your efforts to make such a useful instrument with decent ranges. I didn't even know it until I read your post about these meters. I chose it after I got somewhat disappointed with the new meters. And after I used it, I liked it even more and bought another.

I have a few basic/beginner questions.
1. What are the pros/cons of C28, a 10uF 16V capacitor across VR2, Bandgap Reference Diode. It was removed in the later revisions by you, I presume, but its footprints remain there.
(i installed it and the only thing I have noticed so far is that it has become a bit more sensitive to the touch. Now the digits jump to a higher number when I start sliding my hand up near the V jack in AC function. Other than that I haven't seen any difference in my very limited testing.)
2. If I calibrate the 2V DC range, the 200mV DC range gets affected no matter how little and vice versa. Is it normal or there is something wrong with some component(s). I ended up adjusting both ranges alternatively.
3. What reading of Ratio Test should I consider? It starts sometimes from as low as 9992 and counts up to 9997.
4. How this meter should count up for the LSD? What I am trying to ask here is should the meter show 1.2345 or flicker between 1.2344 and 1.2345 when the actual input is 1.23445 or when the actual input is 1.23449.


The reason for disturbing its calibration pots.
I wanted it to match in reading with my other meter. It was reading about 6-8 counts lower than the other one.
I guess my other meter is better calibrated.
After calibration, its readings perfectly match with my other meter. (The other meter is also an 8060A.)


A little history of the meter in question.
I probably should mention that this is an old meter with serial number 408xxxx. I bought it used about 8 months ago. I have a few guesses about its history. These are
a) It was purchased somewhere around 1990.
b) Sent to Fluke for repair (in 93 as per calibration sticker on it), as its two 1K input fusible resistors were replaced. The calibration seal was intact when I bought it.
c) It was not used much by its original owner because the DF and ESR of all the electrolytic capacitors was well below their maximum values.

What I have done so far.
After reading so many posts about the electrolytic capacitor, I opened it up. The capacitors looked and measured fine as per the United Chemicon datasheets that I could have found for their new series small and the low leakage capacitors. But just to be on the safe side, I replaced them with solid tantalums with as low ESR as I could have found. Their ESR is better than the original Aluminium Electrolytics. I didn't measure the leakage current of these tantalums. I hope it will not be horrible because all the test points are giving healthy measurements.
After replacing the capacitors, I cleaned all the flux residue also from the previous repair made by Fluke.
Then I gave it a long IPA bath. And lately I calibrated its DC function to match my other meter.
It is working fine so far.

Regards,
Qasim.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 11:08:25 am by mqsaharan »
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #497 on: May 07, 2018, 07:59:04 am »
Dont know if I ought to start up a new thread.

Just received a couple of old Flukes... an 8060A and an 87 (original).

87 is not working, have not inspected it yet. Winter is coming i am sure there will be plenty of rainy days.

the 8060A had a broken battery lead whihc was repaired  and it kind of works but not... the LCD display is a bit wonky, some of the segments are not lighting up.
I guess the zebra strip needs TLC.

What is the recommended TLC approach? hay water and oats on occasion?

PS the case is perfect... no cracks no chips... made in Holland serial number 3765479 .
Does anyone know how to decipher the blessed thing?
 

Offline NW27

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #498 on: May 07, 2018, 08:10:36 am »
I have a fluke 87 that the frame that clamps the lcd and conductive rubber has broken the little lugs.
Any ideas where I can buy these frames?

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: Old Fluke Multimeters
« Reply #499 on: May 07, 2018, 08:15:46 am »
3d printer?
 


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