Handheld vs benchtop multimeter

[bdunham7]

When you buy a used Fluke 289 pay attention to the SN, to get one with the newest FW, not having the "light-IR-issue" and one after the "leaking-cap-problematic".

Just to clarify, if you have the USB cable the early F289s with the light issue can be updated with FW that fixes this, although it is not the same version as the newer models.  The supercap issue is annoying but easy enough to fix if Fluke doesn't do it for free--which they almost always will AFAIK. 

[TimFox]

In reality, common hand-held meters do not have 4-terminal ohms, and few have > 10 megohm input impedance.  If these features are important, then one should look at bench meters.

Yes, but that is coming from a proper requirements driven view instead of from some kind of fantasy.

I assume the OP was wondering about the difference between hand-held and bench meters that he can actually buy from a real vendor, instead of designing his own to include the features he needs.  Both Kleinstein and I are trying to summarize what can be purchased off-the-shelf, in order to see which type will better suit his requirements.

[nctnico]

How do you get to 'designing his own'? Where are the goal posts this time?  Low cost bench DMMs can be bought from many vendors (including Amazon) so if people don't like to buy from Ebay or Aliexpress then there are many other options.

[TimFox]

You have missed the main point.  The OP is asking about the advantages and features of hand-held vs. bench meters.  I discussed what is normally commercially available on each type, and that he should make a choice depending on his requirements.

[mansaxel]

Add one vote for a wiggly meter, for all the reasons mentioned.  An interesting combination is the [hp] 427a which is an analog electronic VOM benchtop. Or you could get a true VTVM, which from sheer weight will be a benchtop, even if it comes with a handle. The [hp] 410b is my favourite. 120MΩ input impedance, and AC volts to 700MHz.  Do note that the ground pole on those instruments is connected to mains earth. Like on a scope.

Those wigglies are all active, meaning they will load the DUT like (or less than) a modern DMM. The Simpson 260 recommendation, which for Europe is a recommendation for an Avometer or an Unigor, is for a passive electromechanical meter, with a much higher loading. This is a bit of both; sometimes it's a blessing, sometimes a curse. Most power circuit measurements are fine, and you can count on higher interference immunity. Small signal measurement is another thing; so much that the inherent loading in a 10KΩ/V instrument was assumed and compensated for in the nominal values in service manuals back in the day before the Fluke 8020. (You know when there actually WERE service manuals...)

I would not, however, rely only on wigglies alone. The DMM, bench or portable, is in many ways a much better instrument and as has been noted, 2 are always better than one. And 3 are better than 2. (4 is better than 3, and so on.)

/Måns; Fluke 10, 123, 8060a, 8021, 8022, 27CE. Gossen MetraHit 14, 25. [hp] 400H, 410b, 427a, 974a, 3438. Avometer 8. H&B Elavi 4. Unigor 6e. Grundig RV55.  Marconi TF1041b.

[tooki]

In reality, common hand-held meters do not have 4-terminal ohms, and few have > 10 megohm input impedance.  If these features are important, then one should look at bench meters.

Yes, but that is coming from a proper requirements driven view instead of from some kind of fantasy.

The handheld and benchtop DMMs have different strengths, at least as a general tendency. So it depends on the use, which is better. One should consider a bench type DMM if one needs things like:
[...]

No, no, no and no. Sorry but this is just BS. A benchtop meter doesn't have to be better or different compared to a handheld.

I don't see how you're saying anything different from Kleinstein?

That is because you snipped all the seemingly must-haves Kleinstein listed as minimum requirements for a bench meter. And then you also get stuck in seemingly must-haves. First get the requirements in order and then see what fits best. The most basic requirement for a DMM is needing portability or not. That goes before anything else. In the end you can buy a good handheld for the same price as a good bench meter. So why buy a handheld if a bench meter is a better fit? Why is a bench meter suddenly a 'nice to have'? It isn't! Why do people have the idea that bench meters are expensive devices that are supposed to be superior to a handheld?

I think your reading skills failed when you were reading his post. He did NOT say a bench meter has to have those features. What he said is that IF you need one of these features, then you should look at a bench meter. (And he even prefaced the whole thing with “as a general tendency”, meaning exceptions can exist.) It’s precisely the “proper requirements-driven view” you’re falsely claiming he didn’t use. Re-read it here:

The handheld and benchtop DMMs have different strengths, at least as a general tendency. So it depends on the use, which is better. One should consider a bench type DMM if one needs things like:
4 Wire ohms
a PC interface (though also found with some hand helds)
faster reading (especially to read to the PC)
mains power (no battery change for longer use)
high resolution (e.g. > 50000 counts) / high accuracy
a large display
higher than 10 M input impedance

See? Not a wish list (never mind minimum requirements), but a catalog of features that a user can evaluate to steer them the right way.

No, no, no and no. Sorry but this is just BS. A benchtop meter doesn't have to be better or different compared to a handheld. The only real difference between a handheld and bench DMM is that a handheld is portable and runs on batteries where a bench meter sits on a bench (stackable!) and runs from mains. Thats it! I don't get why bench DMMs need to have special features. That line of thinking is insane

There are oodles of not so expensive bench meters out there. My personal favorite is the Vici VC8145 which has been on the market for over a decade already.

And additionally, it’s not “insane” for bench meters to “need” special features, for the simple reason that basic bench meters have largely died out as handheld meters gained their capabilities. I’m not aware of any big-name meter manufacturer that makes a basic bench DMM. (It’s 100% cheapo brands like Vici, and there certainly aren’t “oodles” of them.) So what’s left for the bench meter market is largely features that require being mains-powered, like fast, high-resolution measurement, which works because the meter’s internals are synced to the mains AC so it can know how to reduce mains-induced noise.

[tautech]

@rstofer What would be the main difference between the Siglent SDM3055 and the Siglent SDM3045X other than the extra digit of accuracy, i'd like to justify the price difference of $120 to jump up to the better model.

In short, only a Caddock precision divider.
3045X uses SMD resistor strings instead.
We’ve recently discovered 3045X = China only model 3055X-E and they can be cross flashed back and forth.
Hunt for recent threads on SDM3045X.

Known benefits are no fan and measurement ranges now match 3055 and 3065X.

And finally it seems FW versions that put the boot freezes behind us for those that actually take the time to update their instruments. 

[nctnico]

I think your reading skills failed when you were reading his post. He did NOT say a bench meter has to have those features. What he said is that IF you need one of these features, then you should look at a bench meter. (And he even prefaced the whole thing with “as a general tendency”, meaning exceptions can exist.) It’s precisely the “proper requirements-driven view” you’re falsely claiming he didn’t use. Re-read it here:

The handheld and benchtop DMMs have different strengths, at least as a general tendency. So it depends on the use, which is better. One should consider a bench type DMM if one needs things like:
4 Wire ohms
a PC interface (though also found with some hand helds)
faster reading (especially to read to the PC)
mains power (no battery change for longer use)
high resolution (e.g. > 50000 counts) / high accuracy
a large display
higher than 10 M input impedance

See? Not a wish list (never mind minimum requirements), but a catalog of features that a user can evaluate to steer them the right way.

My reading skills are just fine. One should consider a bench type DMM if one needs things like means that you should only consider a bench meter if you need the following features.

It would be different if Kleinstein wrote: 'besides portability, higher end bench meters offer features like below which typically aren't found on handhelds.'. But Kleinstein didn't make that distinction. Maybe not on purpose but in the end the text is the text.

And additionally, it’s not “insane” for bench meters to “need” special features, for the simple reason that basic bench meters have largely died out as handheld meters gained their capabilities. I’m not aware of any big-name meter manufacturer that makes a basic bench DMM. (It’s 100% cheapo brands like Vici, and there certainly aren’t “oodles” of them.) So what’s left for the bench meter market is largely features that require being mains-powered, like fast, high-resolution measurement, which works because the meter’s internals are synced to the mains AC so it can know how to reduce mains-induced noise.

No, the A-brands pulled out of the low end market because the Chinese stepped in. This is true for all kinds of test equipment! It is not like there is no market at all for low end bench DMMs.

In the end my point is: don't get hung up on the idea that a bench DMM has to be an expensive fancy piece of test equipment.

[tooki]

My reading skills are just fine. One should consider a bench type DMM if one needs things like means that you should only consider a bench meter if you need the following features.

It would be different if Kleinstein wrote: 'besides portability, higher end bench meters offer features like below which typically aren't found on handhelds.'. But Kleinstein didn't make that distinction. Maybe not on purpose but in the end the text is the text.

I don’t think it means the exclusivity that you suggest.

Either way, it’s kinda crazy how much this topic has your knickers in a twist…

And additionally, it’s not “insane” for bench meters to “need” special features, for the simple reason that basic bench meters have largely died out as handheld meters gained their capabilities. I’m not aware of any big-name meter manufacturer that makes a basic bench DMM. (It’s 100% cheapo brands like Vici, and there certainly aren’t “oodles” of them.) So what’s left for the bench meter market is largely features that require being mains-powered, like fast, high-resolution measurement, which works because the meter’s internals are synced to the mains AC so it can know how to reduce mains-induced noise.

No, the A-brands pulled out of the low end market because the Chinese stepped in. This is true for all kinds of test equipment! It is not like there is no market at all for low end bench DMMs.

So how come the A-brands haven’t pulled out of the handheld DMM market, then? The Chinese certainly stepped into that market, too.

It’s fairly easy to see what happened by looking at the history of the DMM market: DMMs were originally all bench meters, and had only basic features by today’s standards. Then they started making handheld meters, and for a while, they sold basic DMMs in both bench and handheld formats, as well as bench models with more advanced features. This, to me, is when bench meters forked into basic and advanced models. The basic bench DMMs didn’t stick around for long, strongly suggesting that much of the basic meter market bought handhelds, even for bench use. So what was left was basic DMMs (all handheld) and advanced DMMs (all bench). Over the years, handheld meters gained some of the advanced features, while bench meters gained new features.

Additionally, as others have mentioned, handheld meters developed more in the direction of robustness for industrial use. Bench meters evolved more in the direction of laboratory use, with high accuracy and precision. Different use cases, different features.

Personally, I don’t see much point in a bench meter that is nothing more than handheld meter guts in a benchtop box. If there were a big market for such things, they’d be everywhere. But they’re not. Not even top-tier Chinese brands, like Brymen, make them. If there were money to be made, you know full well that they’d be making them, too. (UNI-T is the “highest” brand I’m aware of that makes basic bench DMMs that really are just handheld meter guts in another case. Not that I consider UNI-T to be a particularly good brand.)

[nctnico]

The reason A-brands still sell (and thus make) handheld DMMs is because people buy them for ensurance no corners where cut where it comes to safety. Personally I don't want to use a lower end DMM on mains voltages. I have bought a Keysight handheld DMM specifically for that reason (it gets used once or twice a year).

And ofcourse you are free to find bench DMMs which are handheld in a box unworthy (even though several A-brands used to make these as well) but it doesn't make much sense. I used to have a whole bunch of handhelds. When used in a test setup to measure several voltages and currents I found my bench was utterly cluttered, readings obscured by small displays / poor viewing angle, view of other test equipment obscured by the DMMs in front and needed to switch the handhelds back on several time a day. So I went looking for an alternative that didn't need a huge budget. The handheld-in-a-box bench DMMs are the perfect solution!

[Fungus]

The reason A-brands still sell (and thus make) handheld DMMs is because people buy them for ensurance no corners where cut where it comes to safety. Personally I don't want to use a lower end DMM on mains voltages. I have bought a Keysight handheld DMM specifically for that reason (it gets used once or twice a year).

Why spend that much money? That's what the Fluke 101 is for.

[ferdieCX]

I have a Fluke 179 and a 87V, both are good meters but they run only on batteries and have a LCD display, so they are a pain in the neck for bench work.
Because of that and when task allows it, I prefer to use my Simpson 260.

I would be very happy buying the equivalent of a Fluke 8010 or 8050 with a bright LED display, NO VFD. It also must be enough heavy and with rubber feet to allow operation with only one hand.

[TurboTom]

...

I would be very happy buying the equivalent of a Fluke 8010 or 8050 with a bright LED display, NO VFD. It also must be enough heavy and with rubber feet to allow operation with only one hand.

You may want to have a look at the Keithley 195A, but make sure the option 1950 is included so you've got AC and current ranges. These instruments are available for quite small money now and then.

[ferdieCX]

Thank you TurboTom, it looks very nice.
The problem is, that it is almost impossible to find good quality used instruments in Uruguay.
As a private person, you can only import parcels worth 200 USD including delivery, that would exclude foreign ebay
I would have to buy a new instrument from a local dealer.

[TimFox]

One thing I like about the ancient Keithley 195 and 196 series is the large (3/4"?) bright red LED display:  far easier to read than modern dark LCDs.

[Fungus]

One thing I like about the ancient Keithley 195 and 196 series is the large (3/4"?) bright red LED display:  far easier to read than modern dark LCDs.

What do you think of the screen on this?

[TimFox]

That looks like a good design on the display.  The tilted front panel is also nice.

[Kleinstein]

One quite often needs more than just one reading and thus having at least 2 meters makes absolute sense. So one may opt. for a handheld and a bench DMM instead of one rather expensive one (high end portable, like Fluke 289 or similar or mid range bench meter like SDM3055).

The form factor is one point, but more like a point where one can compromise if needed.  With the display personal preferences (and conditions in the lab) are also quite different.  Safety and the ability to measure a small signal at all can be a more stringent requirements. There may not be one meter to get you both - or it may at least be cheaper to have 2 separate meters.  There are quite different meters available, especially if you include used bench meters. At least in the US there are quite some used bench meters available.