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Oscilloscope Choice: Yokogawa DL1740EL or Iwatsu DS-5624A or Tektronics TBS2204B
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EEVblog:

--- Quote from: nctnico on May 29, 2024, 08:19:16 am ---Did you read the endlessly long bug threads on your own forum?  :) More features: probably yes if they work as intended. Better: definitely debatable. I used to be a big Siglent supporter as they where going to 'stick it to' the big A brands and make them lower their prices. But in the mean time I've learned the only people Siglent (and Rigol too) are 'sticking it to' are their own customers. In the past decade I have a spend (directly and indirectly) over 3000 euro (ex VAT) on Siglent gear which turned out to be useless for the purpose it was bought for due to bugs / shortcomings.
--- End quote ---

Ok, so you've had a bad experience with Siglent, fair enough. But I'm sure even you have to admit that others haven't, and that Siglent a serious player with serious products, with countless satisfied customers, both low end and advanced.

2N3055 mentioned R&S. My MXO4 R&S scope is the only scope I've ever had that I personally found several major bugs that entirely locked up the scope. No other scope has ever done that, not Siglent, not Rigol, not even the $50 cheapie handhelds. It also had a loose screw that rattled around in the chassis. To the credit of R&S they fixed it quick smart.
The Keysight 3000 is the only scope I've had that has released the magic scope due to a hardware design fault.


--- Quote ---Bottom line: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys so don't expect to pay less and still get the same quality. Ofcourse people can decide for themselves if they want to save money or that a cheaper unit is perfect for their needs.
--- End quote ---

Welcome to the complex world of "bang per buck".


--- Quote ---But even for occasional hobby use it can be worthwhile to go for the better polished gear even if it doesn't have all the bells & whistles and/or it is second hand. Except for the Yokogawa, the oscilloscopes the OP is looking at are definitely not old units. The Tektronix one (TBS2000B series) was released only a few years ago.
--- End quote ---

Sure, fair argument. But what's not fair is outright bashing the likes of Siglent for everyone just because you had a personal issue with it.


--- Quote ---And as I wrote before the prices the shop is asking are way too high, there is likely a lot of wiggle room; a decent price would be a little bit below half the price the shop is asking.
But not always with great success. AFAIK Lecroy does quite a bit of quality control on the firmware themselves before releasing a product nowadays. They have got bitten badly in the past by rebranding Siglent products. Don't mention 'Waveace' to any of their sales reps... It looks like Lecroy has cancelled 'Waveace' as a product line.
--- End quote ---

And even though they got "bitten" just like you did, Lecroy decided to trust Siglent again.
Aldo22:

--- Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pm ---- The quality/features a $300 scope gets you over a $150 is arguably more than 2x

--- End quote ---
That may be true, but a $150 scope is 1000x better than no scope!  ;D


--- Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pm ---- The type of people Dave is targeting, IMO, are more serious hobbyists or people that will be using the scope for years to come and expanding their skills and knowledge. $150 is fine if you continue to do basic hobby projects, but not if you plan to grow at all.

--- End quote ---
Well, in the $150 category you certainly don't have the next 10 years in mind, but you have to start somewhere and I see nothing wrong with starting with something cheap to realize what you really need.
Aldo22:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 30, 2024, 05:52:39 am ---Usually people are talking about a bench scope though.

--- End quote ---

I'm also talking about a bench scope.
Are you saying that because of the AWG?
The Hantek DSO2000 (which I bought for USD 130 on sale last November) has the AWG hardware built in (every model), you just have to “activate” it.
The AWG even has some nice features that you wouldn't expect for the extremely low price (single, short pulses (20ns), AM/FM up to 25MHz...).
nctnico:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 30, 2024, 06:06:21 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on May 29, 2024, 08:19:16 am ---Did you read the endlessly long bug threads on your own forum?  :) More features: probably yes if they work as intended. Better: definitely debatable. I used to be a big Siglent supporter as they where going to 'stick it to' the big A brands and make them lower their prices. But in the mean time I've learned the only people Siglent (and Rigol too) are 'sticking it to' are their own customers. In the past decade I have a spend (directly and indirectly) over 3000 euro (ex VAT) on Siglent gear which turned out to be useless for the purpose it was bought for due to bugs / shortcomings.
--- End quote ---

Ok, so you've had a bad experience with Siglent, fair enough. But I'm sure even you have to admit that others haven't, and that Siglent a serious player with serious products, with countless satisfied customers, both low end and advanced.

2N3055 mentioned R&S. My MXO4 R&S scope is the only scope I've ever had that I personally found several major bugs that entirely locked up the scope. No other scope has ever done that, not Siglent, not Rigol, not even the $50 cheapie handhelds. It also had a loose screw that rattled around in the chassis. To the credit of R&S they fixed it quick smart.

--- End quote ---
But still: R&S knows what they are doing and have the capacity to fix things quickly and in the right way. The RTM3004 R&S send me for a review also had some issues when I got it but it got fixed quickly as well. Unfortunately that is the world we live in. Products get released ahead of schedule.

--- Quote ---

--- Quote ---Bottom line: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys so don't expect to pay less and still get the same quality. Ofcourse people can decide for themselves if they want to save money or that a cheaper unit is perfect for their needs.
--- End quote ---

Welcome to the complex world of "bang per buck".


--- Quote ---But even for occasional hobby use it can be worthwhile to go for the better polished gear even if it doesn't have all the bells & whistles and/or it is second hand. Except for the Yokogawa, the oscilloscopes the OP is looking at are definitely not old units. The Tektronix one (TBS2000B series) was released only a few years ago.
--- End quote ---

Sure, fair argument. But what's not fair is outright bashing the likes of Siglent for everyone just because you had a personal issue with it.

--- End quote ---
I don't have a personal issue with Siglent. I just look at it from a commercial perspective.

Take these fairly recent threads for example (there are many more):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-serial-decoding-not-working/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032-as-bad-as-rigol-dg812/

Now imagine these people are on your payroll and spend days chasing their tails due to equipment not working and technical support being useless (as Siglent support doesn't even know how a UART protocol looks like in the wild judging by the first thread). And for sure you can argue that especially the 2nd thread is made by someone lacking experience but if you read carefully  / sifting through the information, you'll see that the oddities (lets put it that way) in the Siglent generator isn't helping to move the person forward.

And my personal experience with Siglent is along the same lines. A couple of years ago I had two very clever junior engineers (working for one of my customers) chasing their tails for over 2 weeks worth of time due to a bug in the Siglent SDG2000 series generator (which is a highly popular and recommended model on this forum). Then I had to step in and also spend over a day figuring out what the hell was wrong with their setup (which wasn't a simple project at all) AND then spend time to hack something together to replace the generator ASAP. That loss of time has cost way more compared to buying an A-brand generator from the start.

So yes, I also tried to trust Siglent again but needless to say I'm not planning on trying again any time soon based on the problems people on this forum run into (the same goes for Rigol BTW). In general I rather spend a bit more on A-brand equipment where it comes to key equipment, knowing that it will work as advertised, knowing that I get sensible answers from technical support than making do. In the end it saves me time and irritation (which is equally true for hobbyists BTW).

So I'm not bashing at all. Just making a fact based statement so people can make an informed choice for themselves based on requirements and budget. Bashing would be to write A-brands are overpriced crap and owners of a Mercedes are utterly stupid  8)
coromonadalix:
For me Rigol was more deceptive,  but i wont bash them because of that

Every brand have their quirks, and yes sadly you may or may not know them all

my only hopes are : that theses companies will upgrade their FW to correct them fast, and not make people wait years


And the expression (150$  for a scope is better than nothing), i'll personally choose nothing,    i've gone to / from the cheapest to the good,  Hantek ... to .... 
you may waste more time with theses, than having a better range of products (BTW not just scopes), but even paying for better does not mean you wont have any problems ...

and you better keep and save your money to improve or choose better, the vintage effect is still here too,  witch mess things up ...


We are checking to buy the SDS7k Siglent series after a demo was sent to us,  very good scope

But for me:  just asking permission to execute an auto setup  is the @#%@@ i've seen,  but  it does not mean the rest is crap ... 
but for me this thingy, is a major annoyance,   all depends on how you see things


you'll never get the perfect picture, even if you pay thousands,   

I understand  Nctnico ...   i may say so far  we are lucky, and we do automatisations with Siglent sdg1000 series and sds1000x scopes, done tests with the SDS7k 3ghz model  all is good ... for now  the IT guy is happy  loll 

SO far with "upgrades" we saved 10k $$$  with many Siglent instruments  :-+
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