Author Topic: Oscilloscope Choice: Yokogawa DL1740EL or Iwatsu DS-5624A or Tektronics TBS2204B  (Read 2597 times)

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Offline asterionTopic starter

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Hello, I’ve been waiting to buy a decent oscilloscope for a while now and I have found a store with the following used ones in stock. Any info/recommendations on why to choose one over the other would be appreciated.

I don’t have a specific feature I am looking for but I do want to optimize bang/buck.

Yokogawa DL1740EL
Iwatsu DS-5624A
Tektronica TBS2204B


Thanks in advance!
 

Offline coromonadalix

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well you are in some of them  "oldies"

you have to check  for servicing or parts availability,   for me i would go to the TEK,  and be sure they all pass self tests and have a proof of that

i ask the seller to put his avatar name in the self test screen and screenshot picture, if not   i move away

you have some threads for the tds2k 3k series ...

Yokogawa ?  there is a few

Iwatsu ?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 11:58:58 am by coromonadalix »
 

Offline nctnico

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well you are in some of them  "oldies"
Only the Yokogawa DL1740EL is an older model (but 500MHz). The others are relatively new. Unless 500MHz is needed, I'd leave the DL1740EL at the shop. The DL1740EL is a nice compact oscilloscope (I have owned one) but the others have nicer displays and an easier user interface. Also the analog fronted gets rather hot and the implemented cooling solution is quite bad. In the one I had, some of the pre-amplifier chips where replaced and one needed replacing again. Based on specs the Iwatsu DS-5624A might be the most versatile one.

The Tektronix TBS2204B can't be compared with the TDS2k or TDS3k series. The TBS2204B is aimed at educational / repair shop work. Simple, but effective. A customer one mine has a TBS2000A series and everyone prefers to use that one instead of the Rigol and other cheap scopes that are around the lab.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 12:20:44 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline asterionTopic starter

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Ah appreciate the info! So I can get the Iwatsu for ~1300 while the Tek is around ~2500. Is there anything on the Tek that might make it worth that much more?

I’ll talk to the shop owner and see if he can run the self test before buy.
 

Offline tunk

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No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.
 

Offline kripton2035

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Yep for that price (and less), any new rigol or siglent will outperform all of these old scopes...
 

Offline nctnico

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No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.
Comparable... not so much. Reputable A-brand scopes versus low cost scopes. Like comparing a set of blue Gedore wrenches with Chinese branded ones you typically find at the supermarket. Use both types and you can tell the difference for sure; you'll want the ones from Gedore. If the models would be comparable, then the A-brands would be able to sell them at the same low price. Ofcourse you can always decide the cheap tools are good enough for you.

Still, the asking price of the shop is way too high. The DL1740EL is a good deal for $100 because it is pretty much obsolete. For the DS-5624A and TBS2204B I'd start negotiations at 1/3rd of the asking price and walk away if the shop doesn't want to come down below half the asking price. It is very possible though that the TBS2204B has some manufacturer warranty left. Tektronix offers a 5 year warranty on many of their products.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2024, 04:02:07 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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same tought   

They are high priced for old / or used stuff,  huge profit margin

I would not even talk to them at this price range


Better buy new  Siglent and Rigol are hack .... / upgreadable on the banwidth,  which gives you better bang for the bucks


 

Offline KungFuJosh

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No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.
Reputable A-brand scopes versus low cost scopes.

Siglent is a reputable A brand now. Better hardware and support than the overpriced paperweights being compared, especially when you get into the $2k and $3k ranges.
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Offline nctnico

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I want the stuff you are smoking  :popcorn:  I'll leave it at that. I've wasted more than enough time & money on cheap tools.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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I want the stuff you are smoking  :popcorn:  I'll leave it at that. I've wasted more than enough time & money on cheap tools.

I don't want cheap tools either, but I also refuse to pay for old garbage. If you think an SDS3000X HD is a "cheap" tool, then please buy me two. 😉
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Offline le_yum

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I want the stuff you are smoking  :popcorn:  I'll leave it at that. I've wasted more than enough time & money on cheap tools.

I don't want cheap tools either, but I also refuse to pay for old garbage. If you think an SDS3000X HD is a "cheap" tool, then please buy me two. 😉

rebrand it Lecroy, double the price, and suddenly it becomes "premium" )
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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I want the stuff you are smoking  :popcorn:  I'll leave it at that. I've wasted more than enough time & money on cheap tools.

I don't want cheap tools either, but I also refuse to pay for old garbage. If you think an SDS3000X HD is a "cheap" tool, then please buy me two. 😉

rebrand it Lecroy, double the price, and suddenly it becomes "premium" )

lol the price sure does!
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Offline Fungus

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I would not even talk to them at this price range

Me either.

For that much money you can get a new Siglent SDS2000 series which will blow them all away.
 
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Offline thm_w

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No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.
Comparable... not so much. Reputable A-brand scopes versus low cost scopes. Like comparing a set of blue Gedore wrenches with Chinese branded ones you typically find at the supermarket. Use both types and you can tell the difference for sure; you'll want the ones from Gedore. If the models would be comparable, then the A-brands would be able to sell them at the same low price. Ofcourse you can always decide the cheap tools are good enough for you.

Terrible analogy.
The Gedore wrench costs ~10x+ that of a no-name wrench. No one is suggesting OP to go and buy a $300 scope.
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Offline nctnico

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Just wait a few more hours  :popcorn:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline aeg

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I would skip your local store. Even if you want a Tektronix, there is (for example) a working TDS2024B on eBay for less than one third the price your guy is asking. If you need long sample depth, TBS2000 series has a list price starting at $1640, brand new! And that would be known working, with warranty, calibrated.

If this is your first scope then you might consider an Owon HDS272S for less than $300, brand new. It's much worse than the Tektronix, but you asked for a "decent" oscilloscope, not a "great" one. You can spend the other $2000 on parts, power supplies, soldering equipment, etc.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Just wait a few more hours  :popcorn:

You win. 🤣🤣🤣

But forget Owon trash, if they're going to shoot that low in price, they should look at the SDS804X HD for $440.
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Offline temperance

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I'm waiting for the Rigol crowd to  :box:
 

Offline Aldo22

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No one is suggesting OP to go and buy a $300 scope.

Why not? (Well, maybe $500+)
The OP says, "I don't have a specific feature I'm looking for, but I want to optimize bang/buck."

Maybe it would be helpful if the OP told us if he already has a scope and which one.
Then we could estimate what he means by "decent" or what the next step could be.

Buying a used scope for $2500 for no particular reason is not very smart imo.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 07:51:09 am by Aldo22 »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Ah appreciate the info! So I can get the Iwatsu for ~1300 while the Tek is around ~2500. Is there anything on the Tek that might make it worth that much more?

Those are crazy prices, don't touch them!
For $1300 (presume USD?) you can get a LOT better brand new Siglent or Rigol or other scope.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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No one is suggesting OP to go and buy a $300 scope.

Why not? (Well, maybe $500+)
The OP says, "I don't have a specific feature I'm looking for, but I want to optimize bang/buck."

That's definitely not happening in this case.

Quote
Maybe it would be helpful if the OP told us if he already has a scope and which one.
Then we could estimate what he means by "decent" or what the next step could be.

Buying a used scope for $2500 for no particular reason is not very smart imo.

I've done a video on exactly this:
 
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Offline EEVblog

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No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.
Reputable A-brand scopes versus low cost scopes.

Siglent is a reputable A brand now.

Good enough for Lecroy to rebadge them.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Ah appreciate the info! So I can get the Iwatsu for ~1300 while the Tek is around ~2500. Is there anything on the Tek that might make it worth that much more?

Those are crazy prices, don't touch them!
For $1300 (presume USD?) you can get a LOT better brand new Siglent or Rigol or other scope.
Did you read the endlessly long bug threads on your own forum?  :) More features: probably yes if they work as intended. Better: definitely debatable. I used to be a big Siglent supporter as they where going to 'stick it to' the big A brands and make them lower their prices. But in the mean time I've learned the only people Siglent (and Rigol too) are 'sticking it to' are their own customers. In the past decade I have a spend (directly and indirectly) over 3000 euro (ex VAT) on Siglent gear which turned out to be useless for the purpose it was bought for due to bugs / shortcomings. Bottom line: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys so don't expect to pay less and still get the same quality. Ofcourse people can decide for themselves if they want to save money or that a cheaper unit is perfect for their needs. But even for occasional hobby use it can be worthwhile to go for the better polished gear even if it doesn't have all the bells & whistles and/or it is second hand. Except for the Yokogawa, the oscilloscopes the OP is looking at are definitely not old units. The Tektronix one (TBS2000B series) was released only a few years ago.

And as I wrote before the prices the shop is asking are way too high, there is likely a lot of wiggle room; a decent price would be a little bit below half the price the shop is asking.

Siglent is a reputable A brand now.
Good enough for Lecroy to rebadge them.
But not always with great success. AFAIK Lecroy does quite a bit of quality control on the firmware themselves before releasing a product nowadays. They have got bitten badly in the past by rebranding Siglent products. Don't mention 'Waveace' to any of their sales reps... It looks like Lecroy has cancelled 'Waveace' as a product line.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 08:35:21 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Ah appreciate the info! So I can get the Iwatsu for ~1300 while the Tek is around ~2500. Is there anything on the Tek that might make it worth that much more?

Those are crazy prices, don't touch them!
For $1300 (presume USD?) you can get a LOT better brand new Siglent or Rigol or other scope.
Did you read the endlessly long bug threads on your own forum?  :) More features: probably yes if they work as intended. Better: definitely debatable. I used to be a big Siglent supporter as they where going to 'stick it to' the big A brands and make them lower their prices. But in the mean time I've learned the only people Siglent (and Rigol too) are 'sticking it to' are their own customers. In the past decade I have a spend (directly and indirectly) about 3000 euro (ex VAT) on Siglent gear which turned out to be useless for the purpose it was bought for due to bugs / shortcomings. Bottom line: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Ofcourse people can decide for themselves if they want to save money or that a cheaper unit is perfect for their needs. But even for occasional hobby use it can be worthwhile to go for the better polished gear even if it doesn't have all the bells & whistles and/or it is second hand. Except for the Yokogawa, the oscilloscopes the OP is looking at are definitely not old units. The Tektronix one (TBS2000B series) was released only a few years ago.

And as I wrote before the prices the shop is asking are way too high, there is likely a lot of wiggle room; a decent price would be a little bit below half the price the shop is asking.

You are a hater, that is what you are.
You had experience with Siglent 10 years ago and you are crusader since.

And I posted few days ago a list of bugs by your beloved R&S for RTB2000:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5513029/#msg5513029
Which is a scope that cost 10x more than SDS800xHD.

Why don't you call that "shit full of bugs"?
Because you have double standards.
And also so set in your ways, that anything that is different to what you are used to is "wrong". It cannot be that you are incapable to learn. "Old dog, new tricks" situation...

And as critical as I am to Rigol (they are much worse, bug wise, that Siglent) they also eventually iron important things out. They tend to leave some things unresolved but so do A brands. Refer to R&S release notes .

Endlessly long threads? Like Rigol threads where people keep arguing for pages about some detail, while list of bugs is like 20 in total. Or where we have recent new Siglent user that opens 4 topics on same "bug" that ends up being user error. And then he writes 2000 posts (literally) on "bugs", while constantly repeating same 12 bugs in total. On a brand new, released
As for 12 bugs in total, again, I refer you to R&S release notes...

Only scope from A brands that I would personally vouch for to have minimum bugs is my Keysight MSOX3104T.
But that is only because that is 10 years old design (even older if you trace its design origins in 3000A and 4000A series) and is becoming dated today... They had all the time in the world.
And they still had embarrassing moments when they released USB2.0 decoder/trigger for 3000T series, just to have customers tell them it didn't work. After investigation, they realised 3000T didn't have FPGA capable of doing that (only 4000 has) and it seems protocol was copied from 4000 and nobody ever even tested once if it works or not. And was released like that....

So your rants are just that, rants, without basis in reality.

Truth is different. A brands significantly decreased in quality in last 10ish years. B brands significantly improved both quality and sophistication of their equipment in meantime.
While B brands are not perfect, gap was never smaller.

And there is one point where cheap car becomes as reliable and dependable as A to B transport as an expensive luxury brand, and also comfortable enough to take long trips with ease.  And all the difference to the luxury brand is price and glitz. Leather seats, 22 speakers 6 screen multimedia, and fancy, fancy design..
Stuff that doesn't matter for actual A to B transportation. Just prestige and bragging rights.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 09:12:42 am by 2N3055 »
 
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