Oscilloscope Feature Wars - Agilent Options

[mikeselectricstuff]

Seven analog channels would be pretty wild, though.

How about 8..?

[echen1024]

Seven analog channels would be pretty wild, though.

How about 8..?

I would think that 2 Rigol's would be cheaper than that gorgeous beast.

[Frost]

I would think that 2 Rigol's would be cheaper than that gorgeous beast.

LOL 2 -> 20

[echen1024]

I would think that 2 Rigol's would be cheaper than that gorgeous beast.

LOL 2 -> 20

Purchasing the best models in both lines, (DS1104Z-S and DLM4058), I could get 20 signal gens and 61 analog channels! Or, I could get 10 analog channels with 3 Agilent 3k series.

[Rigby]

What are you doing that needs 7 ANALOG channels?

Nothing at all. But if my DS1074Z does get an analog friend, maybe I will have 7 analog channels. Looking around for a broken 2465 under $125.

I have a Tek 7633 (4x100MHz), a Tek 7623 (4x100MHz), a Panasonic VP-5610P (3x100MHz), and a Rigol DS1104Z-S (4x100MHz).  I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can start to work on the 7623.  It is the only one that doesn't operate perfectly, and it seems there is a great deal of crap in the module edge connectors on the mainframe unit; turning knobs and pushing buttons on the plugins makes the traces jump like crazy, when those plugins don't do this in my 7633.  Anyway...

Highly recommend the 7000 series Tek scopes, by the way, and I will admit to wanting a 2465 as well.  A 7900 chassis will support up to 500MHz, if I recall.

http://www.tek.com/Measurement/Support/scopes/faq/history.html

[echen1024]

What are you doing that needs 7 ANALOG channels?

Nothing at all. But if my DS1074Z does get an analog friend, maybe I will have 7 analog channels. Looking around for a broken 2465 under $125.

I have a Tek 7633 (4x100MHz), a Tek 7623 (4x100MHz), a Panasonic VP-5610P (3x100MHz), and a Rigol DS1104Z-S (4x100MHz).  I'm waiting for the weather to warm up so I can start to work on the 7623.  It is the only one that doesn't operate perfectly, and it seems there is a great deal of crap in the module edge connectors on the mainframe unit; turning knobs and pushing buttons on the plugins makes the traces jump like crazy, when those plugins don't do this in my 7633.  Anyway...

Highly recommend the 7000 series Tek scopes, by the way, and I will admit to wanting a 2465 as well.  A 7900 chassis will support up to 500MHz, if I recall.

http://www.tek.com/Measurement/Support/scopes/faq/history.html

The Tek 7k series is very nice, however, take up waayyy too much bench space. If I can snag one on the cheap however, you betcha I will go for it.

P.S. aren't the 24xx scopes simply beautiful?

[Hydrawerk]

Yokogawa scopes are too expensive. And often they have not much impressive ADCs. This DLM2000 500Mhz scope has only 1,25GSa/s per each channel. (It can be interleaved to 2,5GSa/s per channel if you use only two of all four channels or so...)
On the other hand, they have some interesting software features and function. But they are not much popular in Europe...

http://tmi.yokogawa.com/products/oscilloscopes/digital-and-mixed-signal-oscilloscopes/dlm2000-mso-series/

[dr.diesel]

I have been watching a few of the videos on YouTube and Yokogawa scopes seem very capable,

I haven't used any of their T&M gear, but their process control/transmitters/displays/etc are absolutely top of the line, used them by the thousands.

[mjkuwp]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-msox2012a-'logic-analyzer'/

is a related discussion.  Agilent serial decode seems to be available on the analog channels.  leaves me wondering what to do with the digital ones.

With Hameg there are two different options one can purchase - I mentioned it a few posts back.  One is like Agilent and only has decoding on the analog channels - the other lets you do decoding on both.  You are supposed to be able to decode two busses at the same time.

[MarkL]

Agilent serial decode seems to be available on the analog channels.  leaves me wondering what to do with the digital ones.

The 3000X and 4000X do not limit decode to the analog channels.  So, you could trigger and decode on a 4-signal SPI bus with the digital inputs and still have your analog channels available.

If you're referring to just the 2000X, I dunno either.  The digital inputs do seem a little pointless.

[Mark_O]

Agilent serial decode seems to be available on the analog channels.  leaves me wondering what to do with the digital ones.

If you have serial decode enabled, then... nothing.  The digital channels are disabled when serial decode is turned on.

[mjkuwp]

Agilent serial decode seems to be available on the analog channels.  leaves me wondering what to do with the digital ones.

If you have serial decode enabled, then... nothing.  The digital channels are disabled when serial decode is turned on.

yes, I am referring to 2000 only - sorry I keep forgetting there are other series to this line.

yikes Mark_O.  Really sorry to do this to you Mark_O... but are you _sure_?  is this confirmed in the manual or did you ask Agilent directly?  I know it sucks to have something like this questioned but I have to ask as I am considering a purchase really soon.  I'll do my own checking as well given the fact the user and service guides are online.

I just wonder if given how complicated a scope can be - is there a different mode or settings change that would affect it.

What do you think of trying the trigger output?  I thought there is one.

[MarkL]

There's a thread over in the Agilent scope forum that provides a little more detail about the 2000X MSO/serial decode issue:

http://www.home.agilent.com/owc_discussions/thread.jspa?threadID=36390&tstart=60

FYI.

[Mark_O]

yikes Mark_O.  Really sorry to do this to you Mark_O... but are you _sure_?  is this confirmed in the manual or did you ask Agilent directly?  I know it sucks to have something like this questioned but I have to ask as I am considering a purchase really soon.  I'll do my own checking as well given the fact the user and service guides are online.

That's OK.  You just made me go back to find the spot in the User's Guide PDF.  Chapter 6 on Digital Channels starts off with: "Digital channels and serial decode cannot be on at the same time. The [Serial] key takes precedence over the [Digital] key. Serial triggers can be used when digital channels are on."  (emphasis mine)

So, while you can use serial triggers with the digital channels, as soon as you turn serial Decode on, the digital channels go away.

What do you think of trying the trigger output?  I thought there is one.

Sorry, I don't know what this means?

[tom66]

My opinion is that the 2000X is too expensive now compare to the DS1074Z and DS2000 series.

Even the 1074Z scope beats it on most fronts. It's wfms/s is slightly lower, and it might only sample at 1GSa/s or 250MSa/s on four channels, but it makes up for those limitations for the much lower price, and greater feature set (four channels, serial decode on all four channels, or two decodes at once, advanced triggers (incl serial trig), deep 24Mpt memory, etc.) For a bit extra you get the extra DDS hardware for sig gen (you're paying for it in the Agilent regardless of whether you use it or not.)

That's not to mention that Rigol fit all of the fast update rate (25,000) into one FPGA. Agilent spun an ASIC to do 50,000.  I think that's an amazing achievement on Rigol's part.

I think Agilent is lucky to have the loyal base that will buy into a good brand name, and there's no doubt the 2000X is a good scope, but it's going to really have to drop a lot in price to compete in the next few years as Rigol gets even more popular. And there needs to be a lower-end 2000X (like a refresh of the 1000 series, moving away from badging Rigols) The fact that Agilent's T&M business is spinning off due to being a loss maker should indicate they need to improve their strategy... and hopefully not become another Tek. (Though it has to be said it appears like Tek are at least doing some product R&D with the MDO scopes.)

[EEVblog]

That's not to mention that Rigol fit all of the fast update rate (25,000) into one FPGA. Agilent spun an ASIC to do 50,000.  I think that's an amazing achievement on Rigol's part.

Not quite fair.
The ASIC in the 2000X is the same as the 3000X, it is capable of 1,000,000 wfps but is software limited to 50K

[Hydrawerk]

My opinion is that the 2000X is too expensive now compare to the DS1074Z and DS2000 series.

Even the 1074Z scope beats it on most fronts.

Well, I miss a PictBridge on my DSOX2000. But it has better and bigger fan than DS2000 or DS1000.

[mjkuwp]

That's OK.  You just made me go back to find the spot in the User's Guide PDF.  Chapter 6 on Digital Channels starts off with: "Digital channels and serial decode cannot be on at the same time. The [Serial] key takes precedence over the [Digital] key. Serial triggers can be used when digital channels are on."  (emphasis mine)

So, while you can use serial triggers with the digital channels, as soon as you turn serial Decode on, the digital channels go away.

thanks for the info!

The Agilent should have a TRIG OUT.  It is a signal available that can be passed to external equipment.  A signal on a second oscilloscope can be stabilized by this signal and so it might let you use two instruments in tandem.
...
I agree Rigol will change this 2000 series end of the market but right now the product offerings don't have apples to apples.  For example the 'z' series from Rigol seems to only go up to 100MHz and does not have MSO option.

[Mark_O]

thanks for the info!

You're welcome.

The Agilent should have a TRIG OUT.  It is a signal available that can be passed to external equipment.  A signal on a second oscilloscope can be stabilized by this signal and so it might let you use two instruments in tandem.

Ah, OK.  You didn't provide any of that context before (in this thread), and while I agreed it has a TrigOut, I didn't know what your point was.  I see though you mentioned that in the other thread, so it makes sense now.

Yes, you could use two in tandem, one handling digital and the other analog.  If all you need is to see both at once, that would work (though using two instruments to do the job of one isn't ideal, from the standpoint of either space or cost).  But if you had any interest in correlating the timing of the two, you'd be SOL.

I agree Rigol will change this 2000 series end of the market but right now the product offerings don't have apples to apples.  For example the 'z' series from Rigol seems to only go up to 100MHz and does not have MSO option.

Well, in my opinion, the MSO option on Agilent's X2000 series is so crippled it isn't worth much.  Certainly not the price they're charging.  And for what I do (mixed systems, and embedded systems development) it frankly isn't worth anything to me, even if it were free.   

[Hydrawerk]

The Agilent should have a TRIG OUT.

Yes, Agilent DSOX2000 and DSOX3000 (and more...) have a Trig Out.

[alex.forencich]

Well, in my opinion, the MSO option on Agilent's X2000 series is so crippled it isn't worth much.  Certainly not the price they're charging.  And for what I do (mixed systems, and embedded systems development) it frankly isn't worth anything to me, even if it were free.   

Yes, this is very true.  I did not realize that you could not use the MSO option and serial decode at the same time.  That's one of those "features" that just makes you say "you have GOT to be kidding me!"  I have personally used the MSO7000 and MSO3000 series, and these are excellent units, especially if you can get a good deal on a used one.  It really makes the MSO2000 series sad in comparison.  The least they could do is transition to software decoding if the scope is lacking the proper hardware. 

[mikeselectricstuff]

I have personally used the MSO7000 and MSO3000 series, and these are excellent units, especially if you can get a good deal on a used one.

..and even more so now they've been hacked

[plesa]

I have personally used the MSO7000 and MSO3000 series, and these are excellent units, especially if you can get a good deal on a used one.

..and even more so now they've been hacked

And It probably makes Agilent thinking about new promo action - full feature set for 800 USD :-)

[alex.forencich]

I have personally used the MSO7000 and MSO3000 series, and these are excellent units, especially if you can get a good deal on a used one.

..and even more so now they've been hacked

Hmm, where did this service menu on my scope come from, I wonder....   

[alex.forencich]

I have personally used the MSO7000 and MSO3000 series, and these are excellent units, especially if you can get a good deal on a used one.

..and even more so now they've been hacked

And It probably makes Agilent thinking about new promo action - full feature set for 800 USD :-)

It would be really nice if they offered that for the 5000/6000/7000 series as well, but unfortuntately it's just for the newest ones, probably in an attempt to get more units going out the door.  Not that it would have made much difference for me as the scope I have came with most of the modules when I got it originally, the only one I eded up purchasing was I2C/SPI decoding.