Author Topic: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD  (Read 3375 times)

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Offline techboyTopic starter

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Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« on: October 24, 2023, 02:31:23 am »
Hey guys, I am eyeing an oscilloscope. It's time to get one, and don't feel comfortable going with handheld ones  :-BROKE
So it will be hobby/repairs kind of usage, and the last time I used one was when tube ones were dominating. Doesn't need to be a fancy one, but better for the money perhaps?

I will be using it mainly when repairing staff and playing with logics, so more than 2 channels will be great. I have a Salae replica Logic analyzer, but it's annoying to use Windows software on a screen while playing with Arduinos. Sometimes you just want to check something quickly, rather than set up all on the bench each time.



Plus, often I need to track analog signals. So, I am looking at these two models


Hantek MSO5202D - Old model and used but in good condition for about 600AUD. Which also seems to have a digital analyzer. Not sure if the header is still available to buy but seems to be mapping one channel to that LPT-like port. Maybe there is a way around to skip the header or build one? It is referred to as probe cable. Maybe some passives inside only?




SDS-1104X-U - Brand new with 4 channels. But based on Dave's teardown it seems a bit of a cutdown model, plus the sampling rate is divided across all 4 channels. However, its a brand new and comes with 3Y warranty. Not that they fail easily unless I blow it up.  :-BROKE



Suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks, G.


 
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2023, 02:36:19 am »
In that price range there's a couple good options from both Siglent and Rigol (at least pretty close in price). I dislike Rigol, but many like them fine. Everybody that has a Hantek has problems, and many of them warn others not to buy Hantek.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2023, 02:47:11 am »
SDS-1104X-U - Brand new with 4 channels. But based on Dave's teardown it seems a bit of a cutdown model, plus the sampling rate is divided across all 4 channels. However, its a brand new and comes with 3Y warranty. Not that they fail easily unless I blow it up.  :-BROKE

Darn good price for the X-U.  :-+

We would sell more at that price rather than full RRP where most buyers want the additional feature set in SDS1104X-E and are happy to shell out more for a scope they can grow into.
For more basic use including all the decodes you would be happy with a X-U as your first DSO.
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2023, 03:57:02 am »
Save up a bit more and get the SDS1104X-E from Appvision, you should also consider the resale value in the future in case you decide to get something else. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an X-E second hand but wouldn't waste my money on the U version.   :-BROKE
 

Offline techboyTopic starter

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2023, 06:04:07 am »
Thanks guys, its about 150$ extra for SDS1104X-E. Its annoying that logic analyzer is about 740$ and requires some kind of license  :-- while hantek one seems to be a passive kinda extension probes box.
Perhaps that is how they justify the below 1500$ price.

Seems the same for the wifi, the license seems to be 75$, anyone had good luck with dongles? Read somewhere re tplink been ok.

Its funny how i started with 150$ pocket one budget, passed through 400$ used ones and now heading to 700$  :palm:

I read about a bunch of hacks around them in the forum, but is it pretty much a locked model with these licenses? Not that I need speed hacks etc. at least atm.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2023, 06:13:53 am »
Those Siglents are a bit old fashioned now. The new kid on the block is the Rigol DHO800. It has 12 bit resolution for extra fine detail and touch screen UI to make it much easier to navigate and find things than menu diving using a twisty knob.



You also get VESA mount, HDMI output to use a big screen, you can use it with a mouse, you get web interface to use it from your PC, etc.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 06:18:01 am by Fungus »
 

Offline techboyTopic starter

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2023, 06:32:24 am »
Thanks, considering I got along without one for 10 years in the repair industry. Probably, chasing the new rivals is bit unnecessary for me. Having a 4 scopes, a decent speed and if I can get logic analyzer built in without passing 600 by much would be awesome.

That said, looking at the Hacking Rigol 800 series topic, I much prefer devices that can be modded.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 06:34:22 am by techboy »
 

Offline Antonio90

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2023, 06:41:07 am »
Hantek is a reasonable option for half the price of Siglent and Rigol, as a mediocre scope is better than no scope.
I'm not aware of any MSO for under 600AUD. Maybe you can get a good price on an older Rigol MSO?
The  SDS1104X-E is a great scope, but with MSO it gets into MSO5000 price level.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2023, 06:45:17 am »
...if I can get logic analyzer built in without passing 600 by much would be awesome.

You might have to forget that.

Some of these 'scopes have a LA connector on the front panel but take a look at the price of the probes, they can easily be $300 USD or more.

Almost as much as the 'scope itself!
 

Offline techboyTopic starter

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2023, 07:05:05 am »
I just came across this project which ads probes to LA connector of Rigol for about 50bucks. And seems to work with DHO914

https://climbers.net/sbc/clone-pla2216-logic-probe-analyzer/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/2450/

There we go from 600 now im heading to 1100AUD  :palm: Probably worth it no? Considering more mods/hacks are around Rigols.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 07:31:50 am by techboy »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2023, 07:53:36 am »
Considering more mods/hacks are around Rigols.
Yes and no.

Some DSO's offer zero additional features as their design and HW won't support such.
Some hacks are of officially offered options while others (BW normally) are to the top model in a range.

When fully informed model creep beyond budget is not necessary unless you are of a mind to quit all your other scopes to move up a bracket or 2 where the choice and feature sets push into another level of capability.
First you need decide on the feature set required and a final max budget you can stretch to.

Eg, an hour long chat with mate Muttley the SDS2104X Plus and the current great bundle promo has turned his head and this instead of SDS1104X-E 200 MHz design is a 500 MHz design.

Ask Josh whom posted earlier what he thinks of his SDS2104X Plus....he also has SDS1104X-E.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2023, 09:17:53 am »
I just came across this project which ads probes to LA connector of Rigol for about 50bucks. And seems to work with DHO914

There we go from 600 now im heading to 1100AUD  :palm: Probably worth it no? Considering more mods/hacks are around Rigols.

DHO900 is quite new/buggy in the LA area right now. It'll be fixed but bear that in mind. The price of the DHO900 is also very close to the Rigol MSO5000 which is a real beast.

You can do a lot of LA stuff on the ordinary 'scope though. The 4-channel 'scope is like a 4-channel logic analyzer. You can do all your serial decoding, etc., on the 4 analog channels. That's usually enough for a quick job and you can pull out your Saleae when you need more.

Anyway, it seems like you have your shortlist of devices and plenty to think about.

Remember: Only you know your real budget and needs so only YOU can make the final decision. :-)

(and also remember there's some salesmen on here with vested interests)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 09:19:44 am by Fungus »
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2023, 09:28:00 am »
I just came across this project which ads probes to LA connector of Rigol for about 50bucks. And seems to work with DHO914

There we go from 600 now im heading to 1100AUD  :palm: Probably worth it no? Considering more mods/hacks are around Rigols.

DHO900 is quite new/buggy in the LA area right now. It'll be fixed but bear that in mind. The price of the DHO900 is also very close to the Rigol MSO5000 which is a real beast.

You can do a lot of LA stuff on the ordinary 'scope though. The 4-channel 'scope is like a 4-channel logic analyzer. You can do all your serial decoding, etc., on the 4 analog channels. That's usually enough for a quick job and you can pull out your Saleae when you need more.

Anyway, it seems like you have your shortlist of devices and plenty to think about.

Remember: Only you know your real budget and needs so only YOU can make the final decision. :-)
:-+
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(and also remember there's some salesmen on here with vested interests)
And more experience in satisfying customers requirements with cost effective solutions than you'll ever have laddie !
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 09:30:37 am by tautech »
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2023, 01:22:52 pm »
And more experience in satisfying customers requirements with cost effective solutions than you'll ever have laddie !

Yep, I'm sure you can bend ears with the best of them.

OTOH you have nothing that's even close to the DHO800 in your lineup so you might not be doing people a favor.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2023, 01:38:40 pm »
And more experience in satisfying customers requirements with cost effective solutions than you'll ever have laddie !

Yep, I'm sure you can bend ears with the best of them.
Your comments clearly demonstrate don't know much about my industry or the way I roll.
Customer always has last say when they have all the specs and facts they rightfully must have.

When they return for successive purchases highly satisfied with their last it speaks clearer than some laddie online that sells his 54Z for latest greatest tablet scope only to return to the same brand and bellow how good it is.

Quote
OTOH you have nothing that's even close to the DHO800 in your lineup so you might not be doing people a favor.
Don't want it either as seen enough here that if Rigol were to come knocking again they would get the same answer as last time. Micsig too.
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2023, 01:53:00 pm »
I'm not selling anything, and I think Siglent is significantly better: in design, platform, and especially in support. Speaking of support, @tautech has helped me and countless others learn about this stuff, and he's on the wrong continent to sell me anything. He's just a good person.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2023, 02:36:19 pm »
And more experience in satisfying customers requirements with cost effective solutions than you'll ever have laddie !

Yep, I'm sure you can bend ears with the best of them.

OTOH you have nothing that's even close to the DHO800 in your lineup so you might not be doing people a favor.

And based on what facts do you state that?
On base of what metrics?

Did you fully inform the person what compromises and caveats are there, if any. For which YOU take right to decide what is important or not to someone else.

Difference between you and Tautech is that he actually SELLS this stuff.
He has his livelihood at stake if he doesn't deliver promised stuff.
Will you take Rigol scope that you recommended back from that person if they don't like it?

Cause Rob will. You see, being and honest salesmen is not a derogative, it makes him more qualified to make recommendations on this topic than you. Cause that is literally his job. He will make recommendation from brands he sells, of course, but if someone asks for feature that does not exisi he will tell you it does not. He won't lie.

You are not in a position to promise anything in name or Rigol.  You deny to work for them and claim neutrality.

If you want diversity and inclusion of Rigol DH800 in discussion, politely point out there is another scope that should be included into discussion and point OP to the threads about it. Bugs and all. Answer the questions if people ask.


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Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2023, 02:41:11 pm »
And more experience in satisfying customers requirements with cost effective solutions than you'll ever have laddie !

Yep, I'm sure you can bend ears with the best of them.

OTOH you have nothing that's even close to the DHO800 in your lineup so you might not be doing people a favor.

And based on what facts do you state that?
On base of what metrics?

Did you fully inform the person what compromises and caveats are there, if any. For which YOU take right to decide what is important or not to someone else.

Difference between you and Tautech is that he actually SELLS this stuff.
He has his livelihood at stake if he doesn't deliver promised stuff.
Will you take Rigol scope that you recommended back from that person if they don't like it?

Cause Rob will. You see, being and honest salesmen is not a derogative, it makes him more qualified to make recommendations on this topic than you. Cause that is literally his job. He will make recommendation from brands he sells, of course, but if someone asks for feature that does not exisi he will tell you it does not. He won't lie.

You are not in a position to promise anything in name or Rigol.  You deny to work for them and claim neutrality.

If you want diversity and inclusion of Rigol DH800 in discussion, politely point out there is another scope that should be included into discussion and point OP to the threads about it. Bugs and all. Answer the questions if people ask.
Thanks but I think it better we don't feed the laddie troll that has no idea the levels that you or I work at.  ;)
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Offline mwb1100

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2023, 05:14:04 pm »
Thanks guys, its about 150$ extra for SDS1104X-E. Its annoying that logic analyzer is about 740$ and requires some kind of license  :-- while hantek one seems to be a passive kinda extension probes box.
Perhaps that is how they justify the below 1500$ price.

Seems the same for the wifi, the license seems to be 75$, anyone had good luck with dongles? Read somewhere re tplink been ok.

Its funny how i started with 150$ pocket one budget, passed through 400$ used ones and now heading to 700$  :palm:

I read about a bunch of hacks around them in the forum, but is it pretty much a locked model with these licenses? Not that I need speed hacks etc. at least atm.

All of the licenses on the SDS1104X-E can be hacked with keys generated by a script.  That doesn't help with the hardware for the logic probes or wavegen, but you can get 200MHz bandwidth and enable WiFi that works with a $10 TP-Link TL-WN725N.

If you need a logic analyzer, there are many capable USB devices available from $10 and up.  Many people find that a $10 Saleae Logic (classic) clone with sigrok open source software meets their needs.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2023, 05:33:37 pm »
Thanks guys, its about 150$ extra for SDS1104X-E. Its annoying that logic analyzer is about 740$ and requires some kind of license  :-- while hantek one seems to be a passive kinda extension probes box.
Perhaps that is how they justify the below 1500$ price.

Seems the same for the wifi, the license seems to be 75$, anyone had good luck with dongles? Read somewhere re tplink been ok.

Its funny how i started with 150$ pocket one budget, passed through 400$ used ones and now heading to 700$  :palm:

I read about a bunch of hacks around them in the forum, but is it pretty much a locked model with these licenses? Not that I need speed hacks etc. at least atm.

All of the licenses on the SDS1104X-E can be hacked with keys generated by a script.  That doesn't help with the hardware for the logic probes or wavegen, but you can get 200MHz bandwidth and enable WiFi that works with a $10 TP-Link TL-WN725N.

If you need a logic analyzer, there are many capable USB devices available from $10 and up.  Many people find that a $10 Saleae Logic (classic) clone with sigrok open source software meets their needs.

Proper MSO integration is nice thing, and gives capability that no USB LA can provide.
MSO gives you 20 channel scope of which 4 are analog. And correlated in time. Only you can know if that is useful to you..

For most part, you can use analog channels to decode simple serial protocols, and to verify how signal looks.
But if you need to decode lots of messages (to debug something on a software side) USB LA will allow you to do that more comfortably, on a big PC screen.
Despite MSO scope or not, cheap USB LA is always good idea...

Simply put, for debugging SPI communication between two chips,  you use scope to verify voltages and shapes of signal are OK, enable SPI decoding on scope, exchange some data, verify addresses and general communication, and then switch to USB LA to debug hundreds of messages to verify all data from sensor, your software etc..
With effort and clever planning you can do lots of work that way.

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Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2023, 05:53:18 pm »
When they return for successive purchases highly satisfied with their last it speaks clearer than some laddie online that sells his 54Z for latest greatest tablet scope only to return to the same brand and bellow how good it is.

What are you accusing me of? NOT being blinkered by brand names? I'll take that as a compliment.  :-DD

PS: That speaks volumes about your world view.
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2023, 05:55:37 pm »
What are you accusing me of? NOT being blinkered by brand names? I'll take that as a compliment.  :-DD

You tend to have a vendetta against Siglent for some reason. 🤷
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Online nctnico

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2023, 06:06:28 pm »
Hey guys, I am eyeing an oscilloscope. It's time to get one, and don't feel comfortable going with handheld ones  :-BROKE
So it will be hobby/repairs kind of usage, and the last time I used one was when tube ones were dominating. Doesn't need to be a fancy one, but better for the money perhaps?

Suggestions or recommendations?
The Hantek likely won't be a good buy. Other options to look at are GW Instek (GDS-1054B for example) or the MicSig TO1000 series. Both are solid performers with mature firmware that won't throw you a nasty surprise in the form of a bug. But it depends on whether those are available for your budget in your country as prices vary widely.


There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2023, 06:23:51 pm »
What are you accusing me of? NOT being blinkered by brand names? I'll take that as a compliment.  :-DD

You tend to have a vendetta against Siglent for some reason. 🤷

After owning a Micsig I'd never go back to using a stupid twisty knob as a user interface. Not with all the menu-diving modern 'scopes need.  :scared:

I also prefer devices with small footprints.

This new Rigol seemed like the logical next step - excellent specs, more features, smaller footprint, and the price was right.

Branding played no part in the decision.

(the Siglent-or-death brigade that hangs out here? That's a mystery to me  :-// )
 

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2023, 06:31:26 pm »
(the Siglent-or-death brigade that hangs out here? That's a mystery to me  :-// )

I'm not a brand loyalist, but I will always come back for excellent customer service, good value, good products, etc. That's been my experience with Siglent.

Personally, I like the knobs. I think the combination of knobs and touchscreen is perfect. I like the idea of a 12bit (or better) scope, but I don't like that they have less knobs/physical buttons on the HD version.

I'd consider a scope from another brand if there was something that I needed that my Siglent SDS2504XP didn't offer. But there isn't currently, as it's beyond my needs and skills. I do have a LeCroy HDO4104A on my wish list for the hell of it. 🤣
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