Author Topic: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD  (Read 3373 times)

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Online 2N3055

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2023, 06:44:22 pm »
When they return for successive purchases highly satisfied with their last it speaks clearer than some laddie online that sells his 54Z for latest greatest tablet scope only to return to the same brand and bellow how good it is.

What are you accusing me of? NOT being blinkered by brand names? I'll take that as a compliment.  :-DD

PS: That speaks volumes about your world view.

Name calling to deflect what I really said, is not necessary.

I don't accuse you of anything. I just say that you recommend stuff for other people to buy it for their money, at their own expense (money and time) without assuming any responsibility for that. That makes you to be in much easier position, and frankly, much less responsibility.
While at the same time Rob is not here incognito, and if he screws up he suffers consequences...
Therefore, because of selling this stuff for living, he actually infers credibility from that.

Yes he can be intense sometimes, but honesty and credibility is not lacking with him.
He will yield to facts, truth and state of the matter. Don't expect him to sell Rigol.
He might even smack talk about it (which, frankly, Rigol sometimes makes so easy) but will not lie about it.

If DHO800 has 3 trigger modes more than SDS1104X-E  than is the fact. It also have 2 less serial protocol/decode. Also fact.

OTOH, you can say whatever you want, and nobody will throw a stone at your window. We don't even know what country you are in, what your name is, where you live. You could be AI for all we know (if you are, though, please let me know which company so I can buy shares, because, brilliant ;D).

And here I'm not implying that I think you are dishonest somehow.  But once upon a time, I did made comment to you that you seem to get really enamored with some idea or product and then get overly optimistic and too sensitive if someone says something about it... Like we are insulting your enthusiasm or something.
And you shouldn't feel like that. But your energy should be redirected from "fighting the infidels" to helping your community.
And honestly, I see you are contributing quite a lot lately for DHO800. Keep up the good work. Look for the bugs. Explore, find things you think could be better. Share it on EEVBLOG in appropriate topics. Let Rigol see them.. Work towards DHO800 really become as good a product as it can be and not only a promise of one.
That is generally better way to live your life in positive way..

As that, really cheesy, proverb says "Don't be a part of a problem. Be part of solution".

Be well.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 06:47:00 pm by 2N3055 »
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Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2023, 06:55:54 pm »
As that, really cheesy, proverb says "Don't be a part of a problem. Be part of solution".

I thought it was "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the solvent."
"Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before." - Steven Wright
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2023, 07:11:49 pm »
As that, really cheesy, proverb says "Don't be a part of a problem. Be part of solution".

I thought it was "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the solvent."
That too!!  :-DD
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline mwb1100

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2023, 08:05:13 pm »
Proper MSO integration is nice thing, and gives capability that no USB LA can provide.
MSO gives you 20 channel scope of which 4 are analog. And correlated in time. Only you can know if that is useful to you..

No doubt - I was suggesting cheap USB LA as an alternative because the SDS1104X-E is already stretching the OP's budget. And as you mention even though it lacks some useful properties of an integrated MSO, a cheap USB LA is still useful in many, many situations.

On a completely separate topic, I think that if the OP can hold out a few weeks until Black Friday season my guess is that there will be good promos on low-end scopes.  Not that I have any kind of inside info, I just guess that the Rigol DHO800 release might encourage some discounting to move 8-bit stock.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2023, 08:19:20 pm »
Thanks guys, its about 150$ extra for SDS1104X-E. Its annoying that logic analyzer is about 740$ and requires some kind of license 

I read about a bunch of hacks around them in the forum, but is it pretty much a locked model with these licenses? Not that I need speed hacks etc. at least atm.

The SDS1104X-E is not perfect, but quite good despite a few flaws and somewhat aged design.  Don't buy it for the LA capabilities though.  The rest of the options can be hacked and you most certainly should hack them.  IDK about the SDS1104X-U in that regard.

I haven't tried it myself, but the Rigol DHO804 looks like a good option to me, especially if it is cheaper.  It's smaller, has touch-screen, VESA100 mounting and HDMI out, in addtion to the 12-bit and other headline features.  Which one is better for you I coudn't say, but my best guess is that either would suffice.  Don't buy Hantek--just don't.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline techboyTopic starter

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2023, 09:26:12 pm »
On a completely separate topic, I think that if the OP can hold out a few weeks until Black Friday season my guess is that there will be good promos on low-end scopes.  Not that I have any kind of inside info, I just guess that the Rigol DHO800 release might encourage some discounting to move 8-bit stock.

I was considering the same. There is no urge, I was just thinking to nicely surprise myself with a gift that I lured for about 10 years, but haven't had a dire need to use yet :D

I remember when I got my QianLi IR camera only 3 years ago it cost me over 700$, it has clunky Windows only Software, needs to be connected over LAN, I need to weirdly move boards underneath, instead the camera over the boards. Not to mention hammers system resources on my PC just by idling. I used it a couple times over the years and it saved me in many situations. But considering that now I can get Android-connected portable one for a quarter of that price kinda hurts.

Tech advancements keeps coming I assume, but cant justify catching up with the trend. SDS1104X-U might be a good choice considering its almost 200$ cheaper than Rigol, and couple years down the line, if I need something more advanced I can justify.

I am dealing with USBc problems on Macboooks and Laptops all day long. USBc on the rigol as power source puts me off, especially on a VESA mount, (as Dave mentioned) curving of the cable will snap it off right away.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2023, 11:51:03 pm by techboy »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2023, 09:30:07 pm »
IDK about the SDS1104X-U in that regard.
Like SDS1202X-E there is no additional optional functionality to hack, none, zip, nada.

When Siglent via Daves local dealer (Triotest) sent him a prerelease SDS1102X-E for review and he sniffed the boot logging and discovered a 200 MHz hack, Siglent responded with only releasing SDS1202X-E to the west.

AFAIK Dave now has the only SDS1102X-E in the west.  ;D
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2023, 03:36:19 am »
When they return for successive purchases highly satisfied with their last it speaks clearer than some laddie online that sells his 54Z for latest greatest tablet scope only to return to the same brand and bellow how good it is.

What are you accusing me of? NOT being blinkered by brand names? I'll take that as a compliment.  :-DD

PS: That speaks volumes about your world view.

Name calling to deflect what I really said, is not necessary.

Were you even mentioned in there???

If DHO800 has 3 trigger modes more than SDS1104X-E  than is the fact. It also have 2 less serial protocol/decode. Also fact.

The DHO800 hacks are still being developed.

It's easy to make it think it's a DHO900 and enable those missing protocols if you need them. The jury is still out on whether they can be enabled on a device that still believes it's a DHO800.

eg. 50MPts memory isn't an official option for the 800 series but mine has it unlocked since a few hours ago. I also have double bandwidth (150MHz measured) over the standard DHO804.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2023, 07:52:57 am »

The DHO800 hacks are still being developed.

It's easy to make it think it's a DHO900 and enable those missing protocols if you need them. The jury is still out on whether they can be enabled on a device that still believes it's a DHO800.

eg. 50MPts memory isn't an official option for the 800 series but mine has it unlocked since a few hours ago. I also have double bandwidth (150MHz measured) over the standard DHO804.

Good info.
I'm not into hacking personally so I wouldn't know.

Just a note, all scopes have BW larger than specced.
Old DS1104Z had 130MHz BW, SDS1104X-E has some 140 MHz BW, SDS2104X+has some 170 MHz BW.
Specified BW is more like worst case scenario across all possible cases and a hefty security margin.
Just a note that BW estimation using fast edges on signal and measuring risetime is not accurate or reliable because of shape of AA filter response.
It has to be established by using accurate amplitude signal generator and establishing the -3 dB point.

With that said, too large a BW with insufficient sampling rate is also not good. Any device will be a compromise.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2023, 02:01:23 pm by 2N3055 »
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2023, 01:33:03 pm »
eg. 50MPts memory isn't an official option for the 800 series but mine has it unlocked since a few hours ago. I also have double bandwidth (150MHz measured) over the standard DHO804.

Update: Today it's 200MHz bandwidth on a DHO804.  :)
 

Offline Caliaxy

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2023, 05:59:18 pm »
A few words about Hantek MSO5202D.

Despite what everybody says about Hantek, this model is actually quite nice, if all you want is something better than a Tektronix TDS210: same great interface, very same button location but higher bandwidth, nicer screen (color!) and digital inputs. I have one, which I bought new a few years ago for about $170. As a general bench oscilloscope it is better than any handheld Owon HDS you might get for the same price (in terms of interface/usage; not so if you want portability, of course).

Be aware though that it does not have any LA capabilities (at least mine doesn’t). Sure, you can display digital signals synchronized with the analog output of a DAC (for example), but if you want any decoding you have to do it en papel, with your favorite pencil.

Just saying.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2023, 06:48:12 pm »
A few words about Hantek MSO5202D.

Despite what everybody says about Hantek, this model is actually quite nice, if all you want is something better than a Tektronix TDS210: same great interface, very same button location but higher bandwidth, nicer screen (color!) and digital inputs.

A word of caution: Where the Hantek does not seem to go beyond the TDS210 is the fact that it does not have intensity grading. This display feature has become standard in entry-level oscilloscopes starting nearly 10 years ago, and I would not buy any digital scope, used or new, that does not have it.

Intensity grading shows frequently drawn traces in brighter hues than infrequent ones, similar to a cathode ray oscilloscope, while still showing the infrequent traces more clearly than a CRO. With the simple on/off pixels supported in the first generation of DSOs, you lose this important information. This makes it very difficult to recognize outliers vs. typical signals, and may flood the display with bright pixels hiding relevant information "underneath".

The Rigol DS1000Z and Siglent SDS1000X-E series, which were mentioned a few times in this thread, both support intensity grading, as do other recent scopes in their price range. The new DHO800 series of course has it too.
 
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Oscilloscope Purchase Advice around 600AUD
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2023, 08:29:22 pm »
A word of caution: Where the Hantek does not seem to go beyond the TDS210 is the fact that it does not have intensity grading. This display feature has become standard in entry-level oscilloscopes starting nearly 10 years ago, and I would not buy any digital scope, used or new, that does not have it.

Intensity grading shows frequently drawn traces in brighter hues than infrequent ones, similar to a cathode ray oscilloscope, while still showing the infrequent traces more clearly than a CRO. With the simple on/off pixels supported in the first generation of DSOs, you lose this important information. This makes it very difficult to recognize outliers vs. typical signals, and may flood the display with bright pixels hiding relevant information "underneath".

I'll agree and add that if you want intensity grading, DSOs (at least entry-level ones) aren't the same as and arguably not as good as CROs in this regard, but for many situtations intensity color grading may be far superior.   This really shows up when you have really infrequent variations on a signal or very complex variations mixed in. 
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 


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