Products > Test Equipment
Oscilloscope recommendation DS1054Z / SDS1104X-E / GDS-1104B / etc?
2N3055:
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 09:31:31 am ---No, Keysight pioneered bode plotting. Siglent copied it quickly. But according to Rudi's review, bode plot works super slow on Siglent scopes compared to R&S and Keysight (minutes versus tens of seconds). So that is something to consider if you want to adjust something which needs several sweeps (or just want bode plot to work at a reasonable speed). And it is not like the dynamic range on other oscilloscopes is bad. My R&S scope has a dynamic range of around 90dB which is perfectly useable.
--- End quote ---
"Your scope" is RTM3104 that cost as much as 15 times as scopes being discussed here.... Just saying...
Rudi's review also found Siglent's FRA had many features other don't have and that it measures with very good accuracy....
As far as speed goes, my (also 10kUSD + machine)is faster than Siglent, but still needs 30-40 seconds to run sweep with any accuracy.
That is not what I would call interactive speed.. R&S RTx2000/3000/4000 is not any better than that..
There is a reason why people shell out so much money for BODE100.. It can do 5-10 sweeps PER SECOND............. Now that is interactive...
As for FRA, Keysight unveiled it in december of 2017 of their "low cost" 1000X series and to 3000T. Previous models did not have any.
Siglent unveiled their BODE analysis 2 months later. Meaning it was already fully developed and tested to production and was awaiting FW release scheduling... It was not reaction to Keysight...
nctnico:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on June 19, 2023, 11:22:48 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 09:31:31 am ---No, Keysight pioneered bode plotting. Siglent copied it quickly. But according to Rudi's review, bode plot works super slow on Siglent scopes compared to R&S and Keysight (minutes versus tens of seconds). So that is something to consider if you want to adjust something which needs several sweeps (or just want bode plot to work at a reasonable speed). And it is not like the dynamic range on other oscilloscopes is bad. My R&S scope has a dynamic range of around 90dB which is perfectly useable.
--- End quote ---
"Your scope" is RTM3104 that cost as much as 15 times as scopes being discussed here.... Just saying...
Rudi's review also found Siglent's FRA had many features other don't have and that it measures with very good accuracy....
As far as speed goes, my (also 10kUSD + machine)is faster than Siglent, but still needs 30-40 seconds to run sweep with any accuracy.
That is not what I would call interactive speed.. R&S RTx2000/3000/4000 is not any better than that..
--- End quote ---
The point is not a price comparison but just to note that there are other factors to consider and Siglent is not the only manufacturer out there that has bode plotting. It is actually rather interesting that none of the Siglent fan crowd has ever commented on the slowness of Siglent's FRA. Either they didn't want to tell or just don't know any better. Rudi's comparison where it comes to the time needed to do a sweep came as a total -shocking- surprise to me!
Martin72:
The "speed" of the bodeplot was often noticed, also and even more so by the "fans", because they tried it out.
Was last in the feature thread a topic.
2N3055:
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 12:02:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on June 19, 2023, 11:22:48 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 09:31:31 am ---No, Keysight pioneered bode plotting. Siglent copied it quickly. But according to Rudi's review, bode plot works super slow on Siglent scopes compared to R&S and Keysight (minutes versus tens of seconds). So that is something to consider if you want to adjust something which needs several sweeps (or just want bode plot to work at a reasonable speed). And it is not like the dynamic range on other oscilloscopes is bad. My R&S scope has a dynamic range of around 90dB which is perfectly useable.
--- End quote ---
"Your scope" is RTM3104 that cost as much as 15 times as scopes being discussed here.... Just saying...
Rudi's review also found Siglent's FRA had many features other don't have and that it measures with very good accuracy....
As far as speed goes, my (also 10kUSD + machine)is faster than Siglent, but still needs 30-40 seconds to run sweep with any accuracy.
That is not what I would call interactive speed.. R&S RTx2000/3000/4000 is not any better than that..
--- End quote ---
The point is not a price comparison but just to note that there are other factors to consider and Siglent is not the only manufacturer out there that has bode plotting. It is actually rather interesting that none of the Siglent fan crowd has ever commented on the slowness of Siglent's FRA. Either they didn't want to tell or just don't know any better. Rudi's comparison where it comes to the time needed to do a sweep came as a total -shocking- surprise to me!
--- End quote ---
Fact that Siglent FRA is slower than R&S and Keysight is know fact, widely publicized and myself personally did tests and confirmed it is slower, on SDS2000X HD for instance..
Price comparison is always a point... We are discussing 1000 series devices here., specifically.
It appears that 15x price difference does go a long way as far as patience to wait 30 more seconds for result.
And as I say, BODE II on Siglent has multichannel (not available by anybody else regardless of speed) and several automated measurements..
It is not perfect (I wish it was faster..) but measures well, with good precision and dynamic range. Speed is apparently not a dealbreaker here..
Siglent is aware of speed difference. It remains to see if they can optimize something or to enable user to make less precise but faster "orientational" measurements for those that prefer speed over accuracy, detail and resilience. So far they made hundreds of optimizations based on user feedback, where it was realistically possible. If this is, future will tell.
mawyatt:
We've used the Siglent Bode function often, and have also reported it's slow, real slow (we are not a fanboy)!! With this in mind it does give superb results as mentioned by 2N3055, slow yes, but accurate with a very wide dynamic range if utilized properly by someone that understands how the Bode function operates within the DSO.
If getting the correct, accurate answers is important, one can often overlook the speed!!
We've utilized the Bode function on things as obscure as the complex transfer function of a Peltz Oscillator under Injection Locking which is quite a complex interaction, and superbly rendered by the Siglent Bode function. Honestly, still amazed that anything could produce these stunning results, much less a modest DSO with Bode function!! Believe me we've seen some pretty amazing measurements over our career, and this ranks right up there with some of the best we've experienced :clap:
I mean, showing the complex nature of the oscillator's non-linear injection phase and amplitude response with the hysteresis memory effects, check out figure 4 of the Razavi paper (2nd below), please study this and the other references (be sure to look up Adler's original IEEE paper) to get a "feel" for what's going on here, amazing IMO :-+
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/injection-locked-peltz-oscillator-with-bode-analysis/msg4424434/#msg4424434
http://www.seas.ucla.edu/brweb/papers/Journals/RSep04.pdf
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/simple-sinusoidal-oscillators/
Fun stuff indeed :)
Best,
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