Author Topic: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use  (Read 10257 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2023, 12:40:39 am »
To each their own, but I really hate touchscreens, I tolerate them on phones because it's the only practical interface for a pocket sized device, but for a scope physical controls are a must IMO.
 

Online tautech

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2023, 12:46:52 am »
To each their own, but I really hate touchscreens, I tolerate them on phones because it's the only practical interface for a pocket sized device, but for a scope physical controls are a must IMO.
Not an issue when/if you can use a mouse.

Once I had similar views but experience has shown me otherwise.
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Offline james_s

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2023, 12:59:36 am »
Last thing I want to do is drag a mouse around with my scope and find a spot on the bench to use it. I like using knobs and buttons, they work great, not interested in reinventing the wheel.
 

Online tautech

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2023, 01:01:50 am »
Last thing I want to do is drag a mouse around with my scope and find a spot on the bench to use it. I like using knobs and buttons, they work great, not interested in reinventing the wheel.
I agree, there is a right balance between the amount of physical control/s and other UI methods.

Touch is here to stay.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2023, 08:07:45 am »
To each their own, but I really hate touchscreens, I tolerate them on phones because it's the only practical interface for a pocket sized device, but for a scope physical controls are a must IMO.

Never used one, right?

How long does it take you to turn on two measurements on two channels? (four measurements total)

Here's me on my Micsig:

« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 08:12:29 am by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2023, 11:15:25 am »
The Siglent has all that too.  Plus regular controls, plus web interface.

Micsig has all that, too.

Plus they have built-in WiFi and FTP server so you can access screenshots and things very easily, no USB sticks needed.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 11:19:04 am by Fungus »
 

Offline BillyO

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2023, 01:52:45 pm »
Micsig has all that, too.

Yours might, but no sure about the one the OP mentioned (TO3004).


Quote from: Fungus
Plus they have built-in WiFi and FTP server so you can access screenshots and things very easily, no USB sticks needed.
Pffft .. you can set up the SDS2000x+ to save screenshots and other files directly to a share on your network.  Plus work at 500+++ MHz. :box: :popcorn:

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Offline skander36

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2023, 09:18:56 pm »

Yours might, but no sure about the one the OP mentioned (TO3004).


Right. Only touch UI is not so comfy for me. I've had Micsig STC1152, same combination as Fungus show: touch + knobs. It's a perfect balanced for a scope.
Only touch make me miss knobs. Touching repeatedly for increasing a parameter is not so ergonomics as rotating a knob, where you have that wellknown feeling. For a guy that all his life has handled knobs (not me), full touch UI can be overhelming at least for a while.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2023, 09:44:06 pm »
Only touch make me miss knobs. Touching repeatedly for increasing a parameter is not so ergonomics as rotating a knob, where you have that wellknown feeling. For a guy that all his life has handled knobs (not me), full touch UI can be overhelming at least for a while.

Micsigs have lots of hidden tricks in the UI.

eg. For Horizontal timebase you can touch the number at the bottom and it brings up a panel of timebase values that you can slide your finger around on to set the value - no multiple taps required.

Probably not many people found that one... I'll make a video tomorrow. :)
 

Online Martin72

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2023, 09:56:26 pm »
Quote
For a guy that all his life has handled knobs (not me), full touch UI can be overhelming at least for a while.

Several years ago, we had exactly this feeling at work -  Now..
..Everyone is irritating when using an old scope and try to change something by touching the screen.  ;D
 
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Offline BillyO

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2023, 10:04:33 pm »
The touch/mouse is easy to get used too.  I use all 3 on the SDS2000X+.  Each function has it's best UI method.  When I go to the the SDS1000XE I often find myself touching the screen or reaching for a mouse.  :palm:
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Offline nctnico

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2023, 10:07:45 pm »
One of the main advantages of a touch screen is compacting / stretching the waveforms and slide left /right quickly using fingers. Way faster than using the knobs. I'm still doing that too little though. Old habbits. OTOH I keep on touching the screen on non-touchscreen test equipment assuming it has a touch screen. I find a touch screen very easy to get used to IF the UI has been designed for a touchscreen. On my Lecroy Wavepro the touchscreen is horrible to use for some things like selecting a measurement.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2023, 10:18:14 pm »

Micsigs have lots of hidden tricks in the UI.

eg. For Horizontal timebase you can touch the number at the bottom and it brings up a panel of timebase values that you can slide your finger around on to set the value - no multiple taps required.

Probably not many people found that one... I'll make a video tomorrow. :)

I know about them, they are in the manual but still the same feeling ...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2023, 10:24:50 pm »
One of the main advantages of a touch screen is compacting / stretching the waveforms

Micsig doesn't do the pinch-to-zoom for horizontal time base. I assume they tried it and decided not to.

I can think of a couple of reasons why it would be "wrong":
a) It seems like it would be un-ergonomic on a vertical surface.
b) The horizontal also goes in 1/2/5 steps and pinch-zoom is a continuous "analog" input so it doesn't really fit.

I'm curious if people with pinch-zoom 'scopes ever use that feature?

PS: Micsig screens are multi-touch, they use it for other things in the UI but not horizontal timebase.
 

Offline BillyO

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2023, 10:39:38 pm »
I'm curious if people with pinch-zoom 'scopes ever use that feature?
Tried it, but the knobs are right there so usually just reach for them.  That's one aspect I guess is more "knob friendly" for me.
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Online tautech

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2023, 11:09:45 pm »
I'm curious if people with pinch-zoom 'scopes ever use that feature?
Tried it, but the knobs are right there so usually just reach for them.  That's one aspect I guess is more "knob friendly" for me.
Except when the encoder 1,2,5 steps aren't a good fit for the waveform/display.

Then pinch/zoom for both vertical and horizontal is the best solution.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2023, 11:13:20 pm »
I'd expect that when arbitraty t/div v/div settings are supported through the touchscreen, these are also supported through the knobs (if present).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline BillyO

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2023, 11:15:05 pm »
Except when the encoder 1,2,5 steps aren't a good fit for the waveform/display.

Then pinch/zoom for both vertical and horizontal is the best solution.

Fine > twist.  Done.

I do use touch, but it does just seem that for this specific purpose I get along better with the knobs.

I should mention that my "touch" is atypical.  It's okay for pecking at things, but for sweeps and other motions, I (naturally) suck.  Using a touchpad on a laptop is almost a soul destroying experience for me.  I have no idea what the problem is.  When I buy a laptop I have to either carry a mouse or fork over the XXX$$$ dinero for a pro-level Lenovo.  I usually do both.  Sad thing is Lenovo seem to be moving away from their awesome trackpoint.  My last one was a T480 and it's starting to show it's age.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 11:22:50 pm by BillyO »
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Online tautech

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2023, 11:18:54 pm »
I'd expect that when arbitraty t/div v/div settings are supported through the touchscreen, these are also supported through the knobs (if present).
Fine V/div is std on most scopes of all ages however variable s/div is uncommon these days.
Touch pinch/zoom provides that.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2023, 07:56:15 am »
I know about them, they are in the manual ...

The manual says: "Method 2: Time Base Knob
Tap to open the time base list (see Figure 4-4 Horizontal Time Base List), then tap the list to select the
appropriate time base. The time base with the blue filled background is the currently selected time base."


There's nothing there about being able to slide your finger around the list and there's probably people who haven't found it:



nb. I'm not saying it's a substitute for the knob, only that touchscreen-only Micsig owners aren't forced to sit there hitting the timebase buttons dozens of times every time they want to change the horizontal scale.

People with knobs get to choose.  :)
 

Offline skander36

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2023, 08:36:47 am »
"People with knobs get to choose."

Yeah this was the ideea: don't go from an old Tek full of knobs and switches to a full touch UI.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 08:41:30 am by skander36 »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2023, 09:05:21 am »
"People with knobs get to choose."

Yeah this was the ideea: don't go from an old Tek full of knobs and switches to a full touch UI.

I think the lack of knobs/buttons was scaring people off. I know it made me nervous when choosing. After using it for a while I could probably remove half the buttons and a couple of the knobs with no loss at all.

I have to wonder about the wisdom of making their new large screen models knobless. They'll be usable without them, but...  :-//

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2023, 09:25:37 am »
"People with knobs get to choose."

Yeah this was the ideea: don't go from an old Tek full of knobs and switches to a full touch UI.

I think the lack of knobs/buttons was scaring people off. I know it made me nervous when choosing. After using it for a while I could probably remove half the buttons and a couple of the knobs with no loss at all.

I have to wonder about the wisdom of making their new large screen models knobless. They'll be usable without them, but...  :-//
Probably it is mostly the 'nervous' part. I have a higher end function generator from Tektronix with a real touchscreen UI and the only knobs I use are the power switch, the rotary dial (rarely though) and channel 1 & 2 enable buttons. The latter mainly due to the fact that these don't have easely reachable touchscreen equivalents. For the rest, the touchscreen is just easier.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2023, 10:07:50 am »
I am a promoter of a modern UI including touch. Wherever I have worked I have encouraged and favoured those type of UI, but this scope make me to think about his perception to the user. When I had STC1152  I did not realized the problem. Having knobs on side was handy.
Also as Fungus said, vertical position of the touchscreen is not very handy for pinch&zoom gesture for ex. and this apply to all scopes with touch UI.

But we are slipped to touch UI discussions and @Aurgelme maybe is not interested about. Maybe he just want to wake our interest on new Rigol scopes (HDO800 & 900) ... who knows  :)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: oscilloscope recommendation for hobby use
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2023, 02:26:15 am »
But we are slipped to touch UI discussions and @Aurgelme maybe is not interested about. Maybe he just want to wake our interest on new Rigol scopes (HDO800 & 900) ... who knows  :)

Have I mentioned that Micsigs can browse the EEVBLOG forums, view PDFs, watch Youtube, play back videos from USB sticks...  :)


« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 02:29:05 am by Fungus »
 


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