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| Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk |
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| tv84:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 10, 2020, 11:17:42 am ---This is why Keysight are clever in how they do it. They know that in trigger/Auto continuous update mode you don't care about extra data outside the screen, you just want the fastest update rate possible. Only when the user specifically requests STOP or Single mode does the scope then go "a-ha, I don't care about update rate any more, so I'm going to make one last capture using all my available memory, just in case the user wants to do a zoom outside the display window. And I pay no penalty do doing this! Ain't I clever!" --- End quote --- I think what Dave concludes here sums all this thread very well. There is no justification to not filling up the whole memory (if it's not already filled) in order to have an after SINGLE/STOP zoom out. The preferred way people use their scope is somewhat irrelevant (and something of a religion among the gurus here) to that fact. Never crossed my mind that Siglent (and others) wouldn't implement it that way (like KS seems to do it). Maybe it is a simple change to correct that... What is the point of having all that memory and not being able to take advantage of it? And if that's an unsurpassable obstacle, why the well do they allow the zoom out? Just to see blank screen? Or for us to validate that the scope doesn't have more samples? |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund link=topic=241336.msg3059728#msg3059728 ---So you're arguing that if the zoom window on a scope is too small that this is something other than a UX/screen size problem? --- End quote --- Not just that. Just less buttons to push. How hard is that to see? See my earlier analogy; you keep insisting to use an automatic gearbox in manual mode only. That is making life harder; not easier. And with 4 channels, some bus decoding, a few measurements and cursors active (not an a-typical use case for me) an oscilloscope screen gets crowded quickly no matter how big it is. Having to add a zoom window doesn't increase comfort so if you can get rid of the zoom window it is a good riddance. I shouldn't even have to point this out. |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: tv84 on May 10, 2020, 02:24:57 pm --- --- Quote from: EEVblog on May 10, 2020, 11:17:42 am ---This is why Keysight are clever in how they do it. They know that in trigger/Auto continuous update mode you don't care about extra data outside the screen, you just want the fastest update rate possible. Only when the user specifically requests STOP or Single mode does the scope then go "a-ha, I don't care about update rate any more, so I'm going to make one last capture using all my available memory, just in case the user wants to do a zoom outside the display window. And I pay no penalty do doing this! Ain't I clever!" --- End quote --- I think what Dave concludes here sums all this thread very well. There is no justification to not filling up the whole memory (if it's not already filled) in order to have an after SINGLE/STOP zoom out. The preferred way people use their scope is somewhat irrelevant (and something of a religion among the gurus here) to that fact. Never crossed my mind that Siglent (and others) wouldn't implement it that way (like KS seems to do it). Maybe it is a simple change to correct that... What is the point of having all that memory and not being able to take advantage of it? And if that's an unsurpassable obstacle, why the well do they allow the zoom out? Just to see blank screen? Or for us to validate that the scope doesn't have more samples? --- End quote --- Well on Siglent it's not wasted to blank screen. Depending on mem depth, you can have thousands of previous triggers i history buffers. Siglent adopted LeCroy way of doing this. It basically always runs in segmented mode, except normally has screen updates that slow down retriggering, and when in dedicated segmented mode, display refresh is disabled and retrigger time is much faster.. With this you can do something also useful: You see something on the screen and than go back trough previous captures to see how it behaved before.. But, yes, I would like it would be user configurable. |
| nfmax:
--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 10, 2020, 02:22:50 pm --- --- Quote from: nfmax on May 10, 2020, 01:31:14 pm ---On the DSO1014A (a Rigol design), with Zoom off, in Run mode, but with no triggers happening, you can use the horizontal scale & position knobs to move the displayed trace around within the offscreen captured data, and change the displayed duration. If you then turn Zoom on, you get a zoomed view of the currently displayed part of the captured data, even if it was originally off screen. --- End quote --- Well, it's a work-around. You first change the actual timebase ("zoom out") which then becomes the new in-screen signal part, and then use zoom to "zoom in"to that new "in-screen" data. What you are doing is essentially using the standard method ("capture long and zoom in") but add another step (capture short but also outside the screen, then change to a long timebase) which, essentially, adds nothing over if you just had captured long and then zoomed in in the first place :-DD And your scope must still be on hold, i.e. not get re-triggered, or your method doesn't work. --- Quote ---The horizontal scale & position knobs change mode to operate as zoom and pan within the displayed window. Turn off Zoom and you can move to a different part of the captured data, rinse & repeat. --- End quote --- I think that would work on the DS1000z as well, but as I said it all adds up with extra steps with no actual benefit. --- Quote ---This could actually be quite useful: I didn't know you could do this! Do the more recent Rigols work in the same way? I'll check the X3000T as well now, I'm intrigued. --- End quote --- Again, it's not really useful ifyou think about it, but if you prefer this method why not ;) --- End quote --- I'm not suggesting this as a better way to operate, rather that it overcomes the drawback that the ordinary Rigol 'zoom' mode doesn't let you zoom out from the initial displayed window. It's a kluge, but this 'zoom zoom' trick works. |
| tv84:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 10, 2020, 02:33:25 pm --- But, yes, I would like it would be user configurable. --- End quote --- Damn, stop right there and we can all get back to sleep! :) (Love this discussion. I've been learning quite a few things!) |
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