Products > Test Equipment

Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk

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Someone:

--- Quote from: nfmax on May 10, 2020, 08:41:41 pm ---One way is as good as the other, maybe, but DSOs are designed, primarily, around zooming in. Zooming out, you are going to find yourself going against the grain. Like a left-hand thread works just as well as a right-hand thread, but insisting on using left-hand thread screws everywhere may be a problem.
--- End quote ---
The different ways to do this each have their own particular benefits, so any particular user can put their own narrow "goalposts" around that and insist one way is better. When they don't actually mention those goalposts it comes off poorly....

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2020, 11:03:20 pm ---The point is, zooming out is a crutch covering the far better methodology of zooming in.
--- End quote ---

Err, they aren't mutually exclusive!
Every scope works by zooming in, but it seems like the likes of Keysight have thought about it and implemented it slightly different to give you a potential added benefit if you so desire it.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote ---No, the problem is definitely that some seem to be stuck in the idea that you should always zoom in and use exact settings.
--- End quote ---

Alternatively, others are stuck on zoom out methodology which severely limits the capability of the tool in front of you.
--- End quote ---

He's just taking advantage of a feature of the scope that gives benefit to him in some cases. I don't see the problem with this and in publicising it.
I greatly doubt he uses it in every case, in fact that's not even possible.


--- Quote ---While you entitled to work with a scope in another 'round about' way those that you may train will have a shock if they go to work for others where zooming in is the universally accepted methodology.
--- End quote ---

Why be so hostile about learning a new way to get something done?
Is it because you never knew about it before? Is it because your beloved Siglent's don't have it?
It's no different to learning say window triggering and then finding that feature isn't available on most of the scopes out there.

Someone:
Its like some people aren't reading the whole thread and just jumping on small points, out of context.

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 10, 2020, 11:13:16 pm ---He's just taking advantage of a feature of the scope that gives benefit to him in some cases. I don't see the problem with this and in publicising it.
I greatly doubt he uses it in every case, in fact that's not even possible.


--- Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2020, 11:03:20 pm ---While you entitled to work with a scope in another 'round about' way those that you may train will have a shock if they go to work for others where zooming in is the universally accepted methodology.
--- End quote ---

Why be so hostile about learning a new way to get something done?
Is it because you never knew about it before? Is it because your beloved Siglent's don't have it?
It's no different to learning say window triggering and then finding that feature isn't available on most of the scopes out there.
--- End quote ---
Because there is no substance to nctnico's endless arguments on this. Wuerstchenhund put it beautifully:

--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 10, 2020, 04:06:27 pm ---Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to do things differently, if it works for you be my guest. But so far I have seen no data which shows any benefit of your method over the standard way, and I don't believe the need of a scope to support such a (clearly very niche) methodology should be very high on a list of recommendations.
--- End quote ---

We're waiting to have any explanation of why this method makes sense, not just some handwaving excuses around why alternatives are not fit for the overly specific and narrow use case.

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: nfmax on May 10, 2020, 04:18:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: nfmax on May 10, 2020, 01:31:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 10, 2020, 12:04:21 pm ---Take the Rigol DS1000z. We now established that, if you set the memory to manual then it will always record the full selected memory size, no matter what. Great, right?  :-+

But here's the thing: on the DS1000z at least, you can't always access that data. In RUN mode, if you switch to zoom mode, you can still only zoom *in* on the signal on screen, but not zoom *out* to look at off-screen data.

--- End quote ---

On the DSO1014A (a Rigol design), with Zoom off, in Run mode, but with no triggers happening, you can use the horizontal scale & position knobs to move the displayed trace around within the offscreen captured data, and change the displayed duration. If you then turn Zoom on, you get a zoomed view of the currently displayed part of the captured data, even if it was originally off screen. The horizontal scale & position knobs change mode to operate as zoom and pan within the displayed window. Turn off Zoom and you can move to a different part of the captured data, rinse & repeat.

This could actually be quite useful: I didn't know you could do this! Do the more recent Rigols work in the same way? I'll check the X3000T as well now, I'm intrigued.

--- End quote ---

I can confirm the X3000T works in the same way, in Stop/Single mode. If there is off-screen captured data, you can use the horizontal controls in ordinary mode to bring it on screen, then use the zoom mode to zoom in on the displayed part.

One more wrinkle: you only get off-screen data from the 'magic' last capture in Stop/Single mode if the ADC sample rate is 5GHz (with one channel of each pair active). Presumably, if the sample rate is any lower, all the available memory is in use anyway.

--- End quote ---

You might get "off screen data" again if you increase the horizontal speed by 1 step compared with using 1 channel.  (That is how it works on the 54622D.)

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Someone on May 10, 2020, 11:41:16 pm ---We're waiting to have any explanation of why this method makes sense, not just some handwaving excuses around why alternatives are not fit for the overly specific and narrow use case.

--- End quote ---

Imagine a camera with a zoom lens.  An experienced photographer does not start with the lens zoomed out to the max, and then only zooms in from that point.  Instead, they start with the lens zoomed somewhere around where their experience tell them is the best zoom factor for the kind of picture they are taking, then they trim the zoom both in and out a little bit from that point while watching the model in the viewfinder, until he/she looks "just right".  It is a fast and fluid way of working with a camera.


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