Products > Test Equipment
Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk
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SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 11, 2020, 12:42:57 pm ---[...]
And if you make it a habit to always capture as long as sensible/possible then you are unlikely to find yourself in the situation that you need to access data which isn't instantly available and without having to stop the scope.

--- End quote ---

I guess that the Agilent/Keysight idea is to do that automatically, even if you have the scope set at a faster timebase.  Can't really be argued that it is a harmful idea, and it is useful often enough that I noticed the behaviour and started using it.
nfmax:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 11, 2020, 12:41:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on May 11, 2020, 12:27:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 11, 2020, 12:18:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: nfmax on May 11, 2020, 12:10:30 pm ---Once again, may I point out that the 'zoom window' display (the equivalent of a dual timebase on an analogue scope) is not needed to zoom & pan either in or out post acquisition: just use the ordinary horizontal scale & position controls!

--- End quote ---
To make sure, for 3000T and Rigol that is correct. I don't know about the others.
But I LIKE zoom mode. It gives me overview where in the buffer I am. Also on 3000T, I just use touch screen to move around... I just wish that zoom window could change size (to be little smaller if I want) when it get crowded.
But, that is mostly because screen on 3000T is not very big.

--- End quote ---
Interesting; the DS4014 has a handy top "entire buffer" view that does the same thing and uses almost zero screen realstate. (Unless you mean something else, of course)

--- End quote ---

Pretty much something like that. Maybe a bit bigger, just to get a glimpse of shapes....

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That mini view dates back to the earliest days of DSOs with more memory than would fit on screen: I think Tek originated it. It doesn't appear in the 1991 catalogue but by 1997 most DSO are shown with one. However, I think the 'wiggles' are a Rigol feature, Tek just used a flat line. And beware, the Rigol wiggles are just decoration, and have nothing to do with the actual captured waveform.
SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 11, 2020, 12:42:57 pm ---[...]


--- Quote ---Those multi-channel captures are also the kinds of scenarios where you most often end up looking for things that happened "off screen", in my experience at least.
--- End quote ---

As I said in my response to Dave's similar argument, this to me is more a case of bad preparation than anything else. If you think a bit about what you are going to do, what you expect to achieve and what you might encounter, it should be clear right from the start that you will very likely will need to look at signal segments other than the original point of interest.


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It seems a bit harsh, to tell the photographer that if he didn't get the zoom factor exactly right before looking in the viewfinder, he must be badly prepared...   That isn't how everybody thinks.   

Some people like "bump and feel" parking...   if that was what we were talking about, I'd agree with you!  - but using the zoom flexibly if the instrument supports it, seems to be just making good use of the tool.   

Seems to me that just as cars all have different "personalities" that means they have to be driven slightly differently to get the best out of them, the same is true of scopes...   so the real meaning of "preparation" is to understand what your particular scope can do, and make the best use of it?
nfmax:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on May 11, 2020, 01:35:28 pm ---Seems to me that just as cars all have different "personalities" that means they have to be driven slightly differently to get the best out of them, the same is true of scopes...   so the real meaning of "preparation" is to understand what your particular scope can do, and make the best use of it?

--- End quote ---

Right on the money! Dave, or maybe even Shahriar, should do an in-depth video of the ins & outs of oscilloscope zooming, with specific examples. It would be instructive.
2N3055:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on May 11, 2020, 01:26:12 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 11, 2020, 12:42:57 pm ---[...]
And if you make it a habit to always capture as long as sensible/possible then you are unlikely to find yourself in the situation that you need to access data which isn't instantly available and without having to stop the scope.

--- End quote ---

I guess that the Agilent/Keysight idea is to do that automatically, even if you have the scope set at a faster timebase.  Can't really be argued that it is a harmful idea, and it is useful often enough that I noticed the behaviour and started using it.

--- End quote ---

Yes, 3000T doesn't really do it in RUN mode, and when you STOP, you get only 400us at full sample rate. If your problem domain is jumping between 2ns/div to 10us/div you're golden. I use it all the time on stopped acquisitions in that time scale.  If you need to capture 10ms, you have to slow down.

None of that is supporting Nico's scenario: Capturing in constant RUN mode, with triggers happening every 10-20 seconds (or when he presses the button on DUT), he's looking at one SPI packet full screen (10 something micro seconds),  and then if that SPI packet is not right, he pulls back to 100 ms around the trigger and looks at the state of some other inputs to figure out state of device at he moment.
And once he's happy with analysis, he presses the button on DUT for another go.. While staying in RUN mode all the time. No STOP or SINGLE.
To make sure he can do that, he keeps scope in manual memory mode, sets it to some large memory setting, so on every trigger event scope will get enough of data.

I do the same thing on Pico (3000T is not perfect for this). I set Pico to 100MS mem depth, set it to 10ms/div (100ms total) , zoom in to area arround trigger (or wherever the packet is in full capture), press RUN and off we go...At the bottom of screen, I will also have full decoded table of whole capture, where I can click and screen will zoom in and jump to that packet..When I'm ready to move forward I press button on DUT for next cycle.

I don't see how is what I do more complicated (in fact it's less steps and more intuitive), and result is the same.
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