Products > Test Equipment
Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk
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nctnico:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on June 11, 2020, 03:20:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 11, 2020, 02:19:15 pm ---You are free to find a workflow easier. But it still means you go through way more steps to achieve that result than I do (which is also fine by me). ...
--- End quote ---

It's same amount of steps. You Zoom Out,  I Zoom In.

And on Picoscope with big screen and mouse scroll wheel it is so intuitive I don't even think about it.
That is for debug work similar to what you explained in your original post.

For interactive work ( what I call "scoping around") I use Keysight and twiddle knobs all the time. I will twiddle timebase in and out, and will be in Auto mode. Working similar to how you would with analog scope. Then I will stumble upon a signal that has frequency of occurring slower than what auto mode is auto triggering and  I want it to stay on screen between triggers so triggering is stable. It might be something interesting so I press Single for it to capture it to Stop so I can take a look at what it is. This is the point where I can :

1 Change timebase to be longer to make sure to capture all of it (twiddle knob)
2. Arm for single and wait for trigger (press button)
3. Change timebase and horizontal position to look at signal in detail (like a full screen zoom in/out)

Or I can do this:

1. Go into scope setting and set acquisition memory for this (enter number of keystrokes and twiddles for your scope)
2. Arm for single and wait for trigger (press button)
3. Change timebase and horizontal position to look at signal in detail (like a full screen zoom in/out)
4. Once you move form this point go into scope setting and set acquisition memory for general work.

There is no even need for zoom mode. Zoom mode will add one more step to first procedure, and it will use some screen. OTOH it will allow you to have overview over where in the buffer are you, which can be confusing when you have zoom factors of 10000x. So with zoom mode it is same number of steps..

--- End quote ---
No. A common procedure for me is to check a detail of a bus decoded message or trigger on a very specific part of a signal. When zoomed out too far, I won't be able to inspect the detail. Depending on the results I zoom out if necessary. That use case works much faster when the scope just uses the amount of memory I selected instead of needing zoom. Your method would require to reset the time base to a low time/div, do the acquisition, then zoom in to see the result and repeat again. Doing this 10 times in a row gets frustrating quickly and the scope gets in the way of being productive. With my method you can just leave the scope at whatever setting and zoom in/out without needing to reset. It really is easier because I only need to use two knobs on the scope: horizontal position and time base and their exact setting is less critical.
2N3055:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 11, 2020, 10:14:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on June 11, 2020, 03:20:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 11, 2020, 02:19:15 pm ---You are free to find a workflow easier. But it still means you go through way more steps to achieve that result than I do (which is also fine by me). ...
--- End quote ---

It's same amount of steps. You Zoom Out,  I Zoom In.

And on Picoscope with big screen and mouse scroll wheel it is so intuitive I don't even think about it.
That is for debug work similar to what you explained in your original post.

For interactive work ( what I call "scoping around") I use Keysight and twiddle knobs all the time. I will twiddle timebase in and out, and will be in Auto mode. Working similar to how you would with analog scope. Then I will stumble upon a signal that has frequency of occurring slower than what auto mode is auto triggering and  I want it to stay on screen between triggers so triggering is stable. It might be something interesting so I press Single for it to capture it to Stop so I can take a look at what it is. This is the point where I can :

1 Change timebase to be longer to make sure to capture all of it (twiddle knob)
2. Arm for single and wait for trigger (press button)
3. Change timebase and horizontal position to look at signal in detail (like a full screen zoom in/out)

Or I can do this:

1. Go into scope setting and set acquisition memory for this (enter number of keystrokes and twiddles for your scope)
2. Arm for single and wait for trigger (press button)
3. Change timebase and horizontal position to look at signal in detail (like a full screen zoom in/out)
4. Once you move form this point go into scope setting and set acquisition memory for general work.

There is no even need for zoom mode. Zoom mode will add one more step to first procedure, and it will use some screen. OTOH it will allow you to have overview over where in the buffer are you, which can be confusing when you have zoom factors of 10000x. So with zoom mode it is same number of steps..

--- End quote ---
No. A common procedure for me is to check a detail of a bus decoded message or trigger on a very specific part of a signal. When zoomed out too far, I won't be able to inspect the detail. Depending on the results I zoom out if necessary. That use case works much faster when the scope just uses the amount of memory I selected instead of needing zoom. Your method would require to reset the time base to a low time/div, do the acquisition, then zoom in to see the result and repeat again. Doing this 10 times in a row gets frustrating quickly and the scope gets in the way of being productive. With my method you can just leave the scope at whatever setting and zoom in/out without needing to reset. It really is easier because I only need to use two knobs on the scope: horizontal position and time base and their exact setting is less critical.

--- End quote ---

For that case I do exactly same: I set timebase to long, zoom in to detail and keep retigering. On each retrigger i see my detail and get full buffer.... List shows all decode from full buffer, detail shows detail decode underneath.
Elasia:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 11, 2020, 10:14:04 pm ---
No. A common procedure for me is to check a detail of a bus decoded message or trigger on a very specific part of a signal. When zoomed out too far, I won't be able to inspect the detail. Depending on the results I zoom out if necessary. That use case works much faster when the scope just uses the amount of memory I selected instead of needing zoom. Your method would require to reset the time base to a low time/div, do the acquisition, then zoom in to see the result and repeat again. Doing this 10 times in a row gets frustrating quickly and the scope gets in the way of being productive. With my method you can just leave the scope at whatever setting and zoom in/out without needing to reset. It really is easier because I only need to use two knobs on the scope: horizontal position and time base and their exact setting is less critical.

--- End quote ---

This is exactly how the siglent works now when setup properly.. its pretty nice, i just let it sit there and auto trigger and it marches along
EEVblog:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on June 11, 2020, 07:58:10 pm ---That confirms my statement the setting is "auto mode max memory setting", meaning it will autorange memory, trying to keep sample rate highest possible until timebase becomes slow enough that it will limit memory and start slowing down sampling. That is exactly how Pico handles memory.

--- End quote ---

Then damn well call it Auto then.
Most other scopes have Auto and manual, but it appears the Siglent only has Auto, and that "Auto" mode will never use maximum memory below a certain time base setting.
It's completely inflexible for no reason.


--- Quote ---I also agree that if possible Siglent should enable user sacrifice history mode, and use full length sampling if user for some reason wants that . Making existing History mode they did was more complicated than just making it simply stupidly sample fixed amount.
--- End quote ---

Yes, they went to the effort to implement it this way, very deliberately sacrificing manual control over memory at a huge number of timebase settings. No excuse for this. There is zero downside to not allowing users to select the memory depth they want at all timebase settings.
tautech:

--- Quote from: rsjsouza on June 10, 2020, 10:23:31 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2020, 07:51:11 am ---We look forward to your followup video Dave when you discover the capabilities of 2 obscure buttons on the Siglent front panel.  ;)  :popcorn:

--- End quote ---
Tautech, why not show the steps to achieve this without cheekiness? Remember that people that come across this thread may be trying to make a purchase decision - since they will not have a Siglent in front of them to explore the mysterious buttons, they will go elsewhere.

--- End quote ---
I urge you refresh your memory with study of the first 3 pages in the SDS2kX Plus thread.
Maybe the reasoning behind Siglents acquisition strategy will become clear. 
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