Products > Test Equipment

Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk

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edigi:

--- Quote from: tautech on June 12, 2020, 09:47:53 am ---I urge you refresh your memory with study of the first 3 pages in the SDS2kX Plus thread.
Maybe the reasoning behind Siglents acquisition strategy will become clear.

--- End quote ---

Care to make a quick summary?

DSO is a toolbox, and having one more tool in the box (be it zooming out or something else) can become handy sometimes and can shorten the workflow even if you typically don't need it. Mostly in single mode, where hard to repeat signals are checked and where DSOs excel.
Although Dave captured one possible design point that influenced the current behaviour with the always on history mode but my feeling is that we're still probably far from understanding the depth of this choice (as I guess few people were involved  in DSO design from here).
For example if you can zoom out what else you can do with the more data then just looking on it? Can you re-apply FFT (or generally math) or will there be a gated FFT (I don't know if it's even possible today apart from the implicit power of 2 gating)?
How does this work with DSOs that can zoom out (I guess there can be vastly different design choices and end results...) Is it only about that you can look the data and take measurements with it (which become gated if zoomed out or re-applied?) or do more as well?
OK, last few questions are mainly for those who can check how the zoom out mode works in those scopes that support it but still a lot of unexplored questions...

Elasia:

--- Quote from: tautech on June 12, 2020, 09:47:53 am ---
--- Quote from: rsjsouza on June 10, 2020, 10:23:31 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2020, 07:51:11 am ---We look forward to your followup video Dave when you discover the capabilities of 2 obscure buttons on the Siglent front panel.  ;)  :popcorn:

--- End quote ---
Tautech, why not show the steps to achieve this without cheekiness? Remember that people that come across this thread may be trying to make a purchase decision - since they will not have a Siglent in front of them to explore the mysterious buttons, they will go elsewhere.

--- End quote ---
I urge you refresh your memory with study of the first 3 pages in the SDS2kX Plus thread.
Maybe the reasoning behind Siglents acquisition strategy will become clear.

--- End quote ---

He does have a point... I had no clue zoom worked like that even after reading that originally before i picked up the scope and then forgot about it. It's not automatically natural/instinctual to setup and thats why it flummoxes a number of people and to a large degree they have a valid point.  The scope does indeed allow timebase expansion already even exactly how nctnico works and is fanatic about / how Dave expects it to work as well so there is no reason they cant also make it an option to default work in that manor if someone wants it to WITHOUT selecting zoom.. in fact i'd encourage you to give them that direct feedback as it is something i'd like to see as well even after mastering zooming.

The ability to do that is just a matter of hiding the zoom ui components and reduce all of it into a timebase/memory selector based on the same table Martin72 posted.. they dont need to get fancy about it and shouldnt take one of their programmers no  more than a couple of hours to tinker around with the UI

This is only a UI interface problem and NOT with the base functions of the scope itself

nctnico:

--- Quote from: edigi on June 12, 2020, 12:39:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on June 12, 2020, 09:47:53 am ---I urge you refresh your memory with study of the first 3 pages in the SDS2kX Plus thread.
Maybe the reasoning behind Siglents acquisition strategy will become clear.

--- End quote ---

Care to make a quick summary?

DSO is a toolbox, and having one more tool in the box (be it zooming out or something else) can become handy sometimes and can shorten the workflow even if you typically don't need it. Mostly in single mode, where hard to repeat signals are checked and where DSOs excel.
Although Dave captured one possible design point that influenced the current behaviour with the always on history mode but my feeling is that we're still probably far from understanding the depth of this choice (as I guess few people were involved  in DSO design from here).
For example if you can zoom out what else you can do with the more data then just looking on it? Can you re-apply FFT (or generally math) or will there be a gated FFT (I don't know if it's even possible today apart from the implicit power of 2 gating)?
How does this work with DSOs that can zoom out (I guess there can be vastly different design choices and end results...) Is it only about that you can look the data and take measurements with it (which become gated if zoomed out or re-applied?) or do more as well?
OK, last few questions are mainly for those who can check how the zoom out mode works in those scopes that support it but still a lot of unexplored questions...

--- End quote ---
In general FFT follows what is on screen or can be gated (R&S for example). Math and measurements usually follows the memory depth but it can be gated on some scopes where math can be based on actually acquired data (Tektronix for example) or decimated data (Keysigh and R&S for example).

See this video I recorded on a MicSig TO1000 for example where I scroll through a 14Mpt record with FFT and some measurements enabled (you have to click on it in order to view it on Flickr):


tautech:
Announcement from another thread:

--- Quote from: tautech on June 12, 2020, 09:52:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 12, 2020, 05:39:00 pm ---Let's see how Siglent reacts to this video and the one showing the comparison to their competitors. Perhaps there has been a conversation between the CEO and the R&D department already:

CEO: Why are our oscilloscopes different compared to all of the competitors?
R&D: The people from Lecroy said...
CEO: Don't care about what Lecroy said. Dave made us look stupid! And dumb! And more stupid. How much time to fix?
R&D: A couple of hours tops I guess.
CEO: Make it so! New firmware by the end of the week!
R&D: OK boss.

--- End quote ---
Alternative:
~1 month ago resulting from beta tester emails:

CEO: We need allow for capture zoom out.
R&D: Why ? Pico and LeCroy don't support it.
CEO: Apparently some can't embrace the capture analysis tools we offer so we need to make it much easier for them.
R&D: OK we will look into it but we really should be fixing the few bugs already reported.
CEO: Yes, OK then get onto it when you can.

Yes you heard it here first !
ETA, unknown.

--- End quote ---

Martin72:
The beauty of dso is, you can change nearly everything in firmware.
So, in case of siglent, why don“t change the memory management, letting the user allow to choose for himself always the maximum memory - or choosing it to auto.


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