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| Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk |
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| Someone:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:02:53 am --- --- Quote from: Someone on May 08, 2020, 11:59:42 pm ---So when nctnico says a scope can't do this very specific (and not fully explained) thing, just ignore it. Because with only a tiny change to any part of the application or acceptable solution, just about any scope will do the job. --- End quote --- Yeah, but he's not wrong. It's an interesting and demonstrably potentially useful benefit. --- End quote --- But nctnico is wrong to generalise it as something other scopes can't do, because they can but in subtly different ways. Its a very narrow (and poorly/not defined) example to try and push some point like the marketing "comparisons" people keep laughing at. The case of slow and infrequent triggers allows that type of use, and impedes/prevents acquisition of more rapid events (or they get lost in the long capture). Its a simple tradeoff (or "trap" as you might embellish it) that is chosen for the specific setting. The inflammatory nature of this discussion has been the refusal of nctnico to acknowledge either the narrow applicability of the use case, or that it can be achieved by using a zoom window/view, or other methods. Its a massive blow up over different methods to set the memory depth (auto vs manual vs implicit vs explicit). |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:49:56 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 09, 2020, 12:46:59 am --- --- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:31:56 am --- --- Quote from: tautech on May 09, 2020, 12:25:07 am ---Yet it's arguably DSO user error when any capture is required that an appropriate timebase was not previously selected. --- End quote --- No. I'm talking about legitimately setting the timebase to capture the thing you wanted, no user error. Then perhaps you saw something unexpected and though "gee I wonder what happened before or after that". --- End quote --- I understand what are you saying, but when working on, say, CAN bus, what are the chances you will happen to capture exactly packet with error if you looking at single edge? You don't capture that way looking at that kind of data. You use larger time period, with hundreds of packets and then search and scroll and zoom in and out. --- End quote --- You can't say you understand what I'm saying then immediately go into an example where it's not going to be of value. That is completely opposite to my point! I'll repeat, there is no logical argument you can make to say that this isn't a potentially useful feature in some circumstances. --- End quote --- Yes, but as these seem to keep coming back to: Poster A says a scope is not worth considering because it can't do some very specific feature..... not mentioning how that feature might be useful or what situations might make it applicable. Poster B points out the holes in their point and explains other comparable methods. Poster A keeps narrowing the goalposts to be "right" Time was wasted by all and a confusing mess is left behind. The generalised answer is there are many corner cases for test/measurement and they generally aren't applicable unless that matches the users application. |
| Someone:
--- Quote from: stafil on May 09, 2020, 01:03:03 am ---Doesn't capturing data outside the display window => more time to capture data => less waveform updates per second? --- End quote --- Yes, which is why "automatic" memory depth usually defaults to the shortest record that will fill the screen. |
| EEVblog:
--- Quote from: Someone on May 09, 2020, 02:39:01 am --- --- Quote from: stafil on May 09, 2020, 01:03:03 am ---Doesn't capturing data outside the display window => more time to capture data => less waveform updates per second? --- End quote --- Yes, which is why "automatic" memory depth usually defaults to the shortest record that will fill the screen. --- End quote --- Not on the Keysight. Try it. Unless you are on a slow timebase like 100ms where all the memory is used to fit the screen and it doesn't have any more to give. On 10us or under (which is where it goes to the max 5GS/s), if you press stop and then zoom out it will give you the extra data outside the display window. |
| tautech:
We generalise that the 0s trigger point might be in the middle of the display which of course is the most convenient for pre and post trigger capture inspection where in fact many might set the 0s point to the left of the display like a CRO. A central display 0s setting gives us the greatest advantage of inspecting the largest amount of both pre and post trigger capture and a slow timebase for capture is the ideal allowing for the largest pre and post trigger record. However we could set the 0s trigger point to the far right of the display if the pre trigger capture will be of greatest interest to us. These are the very most basic features of a DSO, the power to capture and the power to zoom in on any detail of the capture and anyone ignoring these simple features is not using the tool in front of them to best effect and needs go back to scope school. |
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