Products > Test Equipment

Oscilloscope Zoom Out Quirk

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2N3055:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:49:56 am ---
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 09, 2020, 12:46:59 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:31:56 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on May 09, 2020, 12:25:07 am ---Yet it's arguably DSO user error when any capture is required that an appropriate timebase was not previously selected.

--- End quote ---

No. I'm talking about legitimately setting the timebase to capture the thing you wanted, no user error. Then perhaps you saw something unexpected and though "gee I wonder what happened before or after that".

--- End quote ---
I understand what are you saying, but when working on, say,  CAN bus, what are the chances you will happen to capture exactly packet with error if you looking at single edge? You don't capture that way looking at that kind of data. You use larger time period, with hundreds of packets and then search and scroll and zoom in and out.

--- End quote ---

You can't say you understand what I'm saying then immediately go into an example where it's not going to be of value. That is completely opposite to my point!
I'll repeat, there is no logical argument you can make to say that this isn't a potentially useful feature in some circumstances.

--- End quote ---
I wasn't trying to nullify your point, but as an reply to your hypothetical scenario, i simply gave you real scenario that is source of my opinion. I apologize if it came out as adversarial, it was not meant to be... I'm passionate about things, same as you, and sometimes it gets better of me.
I will also repeat (i understand you cannot read everything) that I repeated few times that I can see how it can be useful and that I even do that on occasion. But I don't rely on it as a important technique.
I'm not against it per se, but I don't think it's a big deal...

2N3055:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 05:02:26 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on May 09, 2020, 02:39:01 am ---
--- Quote from: stafil on May 09, 2020, 01:03:03 am ---Doesn't capturing data outside the display window => more time to capture data => less waveform updates per second?

--- End quote ---
Yes, which is why "automatic" memory depth usually defaults to the shortest record that will fill the screen.

--- End quote ---

Not on the Keysight. Try it. Unless you are on a slow timebase like 100ms where all the memory is used to fit the screen and it doesn't have any more to give. On 10us or under (which is where it goes to the max 5GS/s), if you press stop and then zoom out it will give you the extra data outside the display window.

--- End quote ---
True. If you stop it will give you exactly 40 us before trigger point, and 360 us after trigger point at 5 GS/s sample rate.

2N3055:

--- Quote from: Someone on May 09, 2020, 02:35:24 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2020, 12:02:53 am ---
--- Quote from: Someone on May 08, 2020, 11:59:42 pm ---So when nctnico says a scope can't do this very specific (and not fully explained) thing, just ignore it. Because with only a tiny change to any part of the application or acceptable solution, just about any scope will do the job.
--- End quote ---

Yeah, but he's not wrong.
It's an interesting and demonstrably potentially useful benefit.

--- End quote ---
But nctnico is wrong to generalise it as something other scopes can't do, because they can but in subtly different ways. Its a very narrow (and poorly/not defined) example to try and push some point like the marketing "comparisons" people keep laughing at.

The case of slow and infrequent triggers allows that type of use, and impedes/prevents acquisition of more rapid events (or they get lost in the long capture). Its a simple tradeoff (or "trap" as you might embellish it) that is chosen for the specific setting.

The inflammatory nature of this discussion has been the refusal of nctnico to acknowledge either the narrow applicability of the use case, or that it can be achieved by using a zoom window/view, or other methods.

Its a massive blow up over different methods to set the memory depth (auto vs manual vs implicit vs explicit).

--- End quote ---
At one previous discussion, he actually admitted that it is same result as using proper time base/ zoom,  but that he does this because he dislikes zoom and how it takes up screen real estate.  What he does mimics  "full screen zoom" and if manufacturers would make "full screen zoom" mode that would be it..

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: nctnico on May 09, 2020, 08:33:33 am ---But since we are here I can make a list with oscilloscope brands which support recording beyond the screen (or not):
GW Instek: yes
Keysight: older models: yes, newer models: single mode only

--- End quote ---

The Keysight Megazoom IV does it in both STOP and single shot mode.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on May 09, 2020, 08:45:45 am ---I'm not against it per se, but I don't think it's a big deal...
--- End quote ---

I agree, it's not a big deal, and I certainly wouldn't make a purchase decision based on it. It's just an interesting "feature".
Probably video worthy!

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