Owon SDS7102 or Tektronix TBS1062 or TDS1002

[luca1000]

Hi,

I need your opinion about Owon SDS7102 (420$) in comparation with Tektronix TBS1062 or TDS1002 (870$).

The price of tektronix is double but the tech and features seem the some.

In particular I like to known if TBS1062 or TDS1002 offer better performance in terms of noise, accuracy, trigger, precision.

I'am not interested about the functions that they offer that are more then sufficuent for my porpues.

Some people affirm that Owon is chinese machine and never can compare with Tektronix (this indipendently by the model).

I like to use it for hobby, and at beginning my first idea was consider some Old tektronix like 2465, 2445 , but need too many space that I don't have, so only digital oscilloscope I can consider.

If someone have some experience with this model 'SDS7102' and tektronix please share your opinion.

[EEVblog]

I need your opinion about Owon SDS7102 (420$) in comparation with Tektronix TBS1062 or TDS1002 (870$).
The price of tektronix is double but the tech and features seem the some.

Err, not even close!
The Tek has a pathetic 2.5K sample memory. The Owon has 4000 times more, at 10M.

I like to use it for hobby, and at beginning my first idea was consider some Old tektronix like 2465, 2445 , but need too many space that I don't have, so only digital oscilloscope I can consider.
If someone have some experience with this model 'SDS7102' and tektronix please share your opinion.

The Owon is a cheap unit for sure, but the Tek, whilst a top quality unit, is just a such a pathetic joke in todays market, you'd be foolish to buy it. The Tek is based on a 15 year old design.
If they are your only two choices, buy the Owon.

[luca1000]

Many thanks for your response !!!

For your opinion there is the possibility to see some video (youtube) comparation about OWON SDS7102 with some Tektronix models (Analog or new Digital) ?

Apart this, I was try to see the best price / quality for 400-460$ and the OWON SDS7102 seem the best in terms of noise, precision and in general performance. Do you agree ?

[Wuerstchenhund]

I fully agree with Dave. Tektronix was a good choice and a save buy in the past but nowadays their oscilloscope offerings are behind other manufacturers. They still produce top quality equipment but you dearly pay for that.

Is your choice only limited to these three models? If not, I'd also have a look at the Siglent SDS1102CFL, or if you're prepared to pay a bit more the Rigol DS2102.

[luca1000]

I understand that here like other situation with Tektronix you pay the "brand" and you can get similar performance (not identical) with chinese brands with less cost.

Siglent SDS1102CFL and Rigol DS2102 are more then double price (>1000$) , the OWON SDS7102 price is < 500$.

My range is <500$.

[rf-loop]

There is so many different needs.

About memory. I want fast and deep memory...

.... but it is not whole truth always.


 Example with one my scope I can adjust sample memory down to 40 sample (and less) but only in segment capture mode!
Some times I hope that scope manufacturers add feature where user can adjust sampling buffer lenght for reduce this part sampling  what is not visible on realtime  screen but still captured and just go to waste station. (example if needed for eyes 50 samples  and to waste station all 9950 samples (10k) after every sampling period)

IF some people use digital oscilloscope so that he just look live realtime screen like analog oscilloscope.  Many times peoples do this.

Example:
1GSa/s and horizontal time 2ns/div.
How many sample points there is visible on the displayed area.

If display horizontal area is example 15div. There is 30 real samples on the visible area!
In this case you need 30 point memory IF you are just looking this running scope live display (just as analog scope, but still you have many digital scope positive and some negative features)!
Not need 500, 1k or 2,5k or even more.

It need carefully think what is real need just in my use. If people do not know what he is doing and what he need, thenh he need universal machine where is all just for "if need" and if in this case it also need be cheap.....it is difficult equation. 
Professional peoples who make money with tools, have many times possible to buy equipment just for specified needs, so example for some use just this Tek 2.5k is perhaps ok. For some other need they perhaps buy Hewlett-Packard (yes I like use this name becouse Agilent have destroyed lot of things what HP was) 9000 infiniium or some R&S RTO.  Just as right equipment for right use. Hobbyist position is different in most cases.

Why I can not select this 30 point memory depth. Why it still need capture 2500 samples (2.5k or in some  example 20k samples or what ever this oscilloscope model have) if I' just looking screen and these 30 sample points.

If there is now this 2500sample points it means that there is 1250 horizontal div captured but I look in live on the screen area only 15 div. When I'm adjusting some thing in example service or repair situation etc.

If there is 10ksample buffer There is 5000 div long capture (10000 samples) but still im looking only 30 samples.  In this case, there need 30 samples memory, not 1k, 2.5k or 1M.

If I can adjust needes memory and get more waveforms update rate......  it is nice.

Of course this was trivial example but many times this is also easy to forget that in some cases but many times you just use 20-50 sample points.

Of course for more and more slower horizontal speeds need more and more memory for keep samplerate high.  Cheap entry level Owon can keep 1GSa/s down to 500us/div with 10Mpoints memory. But with this speed example 1k points memory  can use only maximum 100ksample/s.

For real time watch running oscilloscope display with fastest timebase there is needes only some tens of samplepoints memory. If this is main use, no need care about memory depth. All these oscilloscopes have much more than enouggh. Even this Tektronix 2.5ksample.

In laboratories some times ago they did lot of high-end electronic works with just 500 points sampling buffers. And all these can do also today with same amount of memory. If do these same things. Do you know what kind of camera peoples have used in history for perhaps most good photographs ever made. This is partially not in equipments, it is in user and his skills also.

This comment is ONLY for thinking, is it all times important to think sampling memory depth. Perhaps some times need think how to reduce sampling memory example foir more fast capturing.
(yes "perhaps" some clever oscilloscopes use automatically some these kind of "intelligent" things for example maximize update rate using some kind "clever" memory depth adjustment - (edit/add: example HP have done this kind of things longlong  time ago. But sometimes want full manual control... I'm (sometimes) more clever than machine for think what I need....))

It depends what you are doing and also how.  Also it is true that in many cases, experienced peoples can do miracles with tiny simple equipments and some peoples can not even if they have most high level equipments but they can tell to friends that I have more big than you.

[luca1000]

Thank you for your complete and detailed comment.

I like an oscilloscope with good performance and with these features:

1) Low noise possible. This is the primary objective. (Probably I need to purchase ather probe becouse the standard probe seem not good).
2) Good precision (in vertical and horizontal).
3) Good trigger.
4) Good quality of imaging (interpolation and anti-aliasing)
5) Good sensibility (minimum 2mV)

Factors that don' t are primary for me:

1) Functions that offers.
2) Size.
3) External trigger
4) Real time use.
5) Higher frequency (40mhz is sufficient for me).
6) More then 2 channel.
7) other characteristc that don't have nothing to do with general performance.


For <500$ the Owon SDS7102 is best choice ?

[marmad]

Why I can not select this 30 point memory depth. Why it still need capture 2500 samples (2.5k or in some  example 20k samples or what ever this oscilloscope model have) if I' just looking screen and these 30 sample points.

If there is now this 2500sample points it means that there is 1250 horizontal div captured but I look in live on the screen area only 15 div. When I'm adjusting some thing in example service or repair situation etc.

If there is 10ksample buffer There is 5000 div long capture (10000 samples) but still im looking only 30 samples.  In this case, there need 30 samples memory, not 1k, 2.5k or 1M.

If I can adjust needes memory and get more waveforms update rate......  it is nice.

Of course this was trivial example but many times this is also easy to forget that in some cases but many times you just use 20-50 sample points.

Just as an aside (and off-topic) comment: this is exactly what Rigol has (cleverly) implemented in their UltraVision scopes; when you select the Auto setting for sample length, it uses only the number of samples needed for the current time base setting (e.g. at 2GSa/s, it uses 56/140/280/560 bytes respectively for 2ns/5ns/10ns/20ns settings).

[EEVblog]

I understand that here like other situation with Tektronix you pay the "brand" and you can get similar performance (not identical) with chinese brands with less cost.

You seem to be overrating what the Tek is capable of.
The TEK has the worst memory depth on the market, borderline unless by modern standards. It is a 15 year old model (I'm not kidding).
Every low cost scope on the market beats the Tek hands down on memory depth. The Tek TBS sets no benchmark in the market at all, it is a joke.

[EEVblog]

1) Low noise possible. This is the primary objective. (Probably I need to purchase ather probe becouse the standard probe seem not good).

Then the Rigol DS2000 wins hands down with low noise 500uV/DIV front end.

[luca1000]

Then the Rigol DS2000 wins hands down with low noise 500uV/DIV front end.

Yes the Rigol DS2000 is better then OWON SDS7102 but the cost is double:

Rigol DS2000: 800-900$
OWON SDS7102 420-460$

I searching for some scope from 400-500$.

[EEVblog]

Then the Rigol DS2000 wins hands down with low noise 500uV/DIV front end.

Yes the Rigol DS2000 is better then OWON SDS7102 but the cost is double:
I searching for some scope from 400-500$.

You can't get the best of both worlds.
If low noise performance is important to you, you have to pay for it.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I understand that here like other situation with Tektronix you pay the "brand" and you can get similar performance (not identical) with chinese brands with less cost.

Nope. Years ago, Tektronix was one of the leaders in scopes, offering top-notch technology and features. This is also the reason why Tek scopes are as common as Athlete's Foot.

Nowadays, Tek is merely a ghost of the past. They have lost to Agilent and especially LeCroy in the midrange/highend segment, and their entry level scopes can't even compete with a less than 500$ China scope.

As Dave says, you would be mad if you bought a Tektronix scope today.

Siglent SDS1102CFL and Rigol DS2102 are more then double price (>1000$) , the OWON SDS7102 price is < 500$.

My range is <500$.

Then look at the Siglent SDS1102CML. I got a new SDS1102CNL (same as CNL but with smaller memory) today and for that price it's really good.

[luca1000]

You can't get the best of both worlds.
If low noise performance is important to you, you have to pay for it.

Yes, you have right.

I suppose that part of noise depend by the probe that generally are very low cost in these objects.

I see some example is some forums.

Is true for your opinion ?

[marmad]

Then look at the Siglent SDS1102CML. I got a new SDS1102CNL (same as CNL but with smaller memory) today and for that price it's really good.

Wuerstchenhund - you bought a Chinese DSO? Say it ain't so! 

[PA4TIM]

I like an oscilloscope with good performance and with these features:

1) Low noise possible. This is the primary objective. (Probably I need to purchase ather probe becouse the standard probe seem not good).
2) Good precision (in vertical and horizontal).
3) Good trigger.
4) Good quality of imaging (interpolation and anti-aliasing)
5) Good sensibility (minimum 2mV)

For <500$ the Owon SDS7102 is best choice ?

1) not the most low noise possible, not even close
2) forget it, Owon only cares about one thing, low pricing
3) most DSO' s are not bad at that
4) buy a agilent, Hameg or the expensive Rigol line
5) Hameg rules there

But for this budget you have not much choise. All these topics are alike, how to get the less worst scope for as little money as possible. Good scopes cost money. How good you need is up to you. But at 400 dollar it does not matter.

I do not agree totally with Dave about the older Tek DSO's. I had a " pathetic"  60 MHz TDS210 for a while here to play with and it was for my use (so for what was important for me) a better scope as my former Rigol DS1102E (still find that my biggest waist of money (900 euro back then for the most crappy piece of shit I ever bought, and I really wished I had not read all those good critics about it back then, so that is why I am maybe a bit over-negative, but it was my hard earned money down the drain), but if you are into digital stuff the Rigol probably is better.

and all these Chinese brands are rather close and only interested in lowest price. An Owon and two extra real good probes cost probably more as the Rigol and Rigol probes (RP2200) are also rather bad (response is much worse as a 20 year old 100 MHz Tek and mechanical they are a disaster (I slaughtered one that died after a few months)

just my two cents. (I have now a 350 MHz Hameg DSO (still love it as much as the first day)  and a dozen Analog scopes, most from Tek)

[Hydrawerk]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-tek-tbs1000-scopes/
 

[alm]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-tek-tbs1000-scopes/
 

Thank you for your well reasoned counter argument. You raise many new points that were not already mentioned in this thread, and more specifically address all of the points mentioned by luca1000 and PA4TIM.

[luca1000]

The Tektronix old models are easy to find used on ebay.

For example here there is an expired offer of only 230 Euro for a TDS 220:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oscilloscope-Tektronix-TDS-220-with-2x10-probes-P6112-/380638212548?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=4aWPYKpMfEpe%252Fyh7%252FslQvf6FAKo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

if for example I find some used  TDS1002 for 300-350 Euro (some price of new Owon SDS7102) what is the best ?

the TDS1002 , TDS-220 and similar have small memory but don't have any defected like "short ground issue" (Owon SDS7102) that is a not small problem (the noise is important for me).

What you think about ??

[PA4TIM]

i do not see a relation to my comments. I did not say that Tek model is good. I agree with Dave and the rest on that. But not every olde digital Tek is bad and i wanted to make a point that what is important for one user not has to be important for an other. If you repair tube amps or high power RF transmitters your demands are different then when you measure on designs that involve signals in the uV area or very fast signals. And for digital stuff your demands are different too.

i would not feel save to measure the ripple on a 600VDC powerrail of my guitar amp with that owen.That Tek may be bad but if Tek or Agilent writes the probe or scope is rated X Volts I trust those  specs. ( but use my 547 for that)

[luca1000]

Probably the best solution for hobby audio porpues (I'am an audiophile) is buy some used tek 2465 / 2455 etc... but I don't have space and object like this can easy break.

So digital is the only possible choice.

[PA4TIM]

space is a different story but I have perfect working analog scopes that are over 50 years old. My 1960's Tek 453 or Tek 547 probably still work long after the now new bought Owons ect stopped working (I guess they will last 5 to 10 years like most consumer stuff) and if an analog scope breaks there is a very good change it can be repaired.

look at the max voltages of the Owon ( i'm to lazy ;-) ) and then when used with a 1X probe. because there will come a time you have it at 1X when you measure high voltage. murphy is allways around.
then look at the voltages you measure. That can be more important as noise

[luca1000]

I have changed idea I will buy some used tek 2465 / 2455 etc , that is best solution , I will find the space in some way.

So in this mode I can forget all problems and compromises about the performance ...

[PA4TIM]

For audio ? Yep, why not, or a  tek 465, 2445 ect, no need to go over 100 MHz, allmost every decent analog scope will between those models will do. HP made a nice 1740 ( and other models around this one)
If you do tube equipment, or audio with higher voltages, these scopes can tolerate more as a DSO

Test it good before you buy it and buy it including the right probes.  I have had a 2445A and a 465. The 2445 has some nice options and is a 4 channel 150 MHz scope. I payed 150 euro for it over here including good Tek probes but that was cheap. Most times they do around 200 - 250 euro.
A nice 465 (on of the best portable scopes they made according to Jim Williams, 100 MHz)  will be cheaper, 50-150 euro ( is older, but when needed repair is much more simple as a 2445)

[luca1000]

This is the first choice that I was think, but someone tell me

"don't buy a old analogue, a new digital is far better ...." I don't belive it !!!!

Now I have take the decision:

Budget 200-250 Euro (not more) for a old good condition Tek 24xx series, becouse was the best on 1985-1990.

I suppose a old tek 24xx (250 Euro) can be compare to a new rigol ds2072 (700 Euro)

http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds2000/ds2072/

Do you agree ?